LordReed:


Why are simple questions viewed as arguments? One asks a question requesting clarification and you assume it is an argument says more about you than it does about me.

What is an argument?

gensteejay:

What is an argument?

Definition of argument
1a : the act or process of arguing, reasoning, or discussing : ARGUMENTATION
b : a coherent series of reasons, statements, or facts intended to support or establish a point of view
a defense attorney's closing argument
c : an angry quarrel or disagreement
having an argument over/about money
trying to settle an argument
2a : a reason given for or against a matter under discussion
They presented their arguments in favor of the proposal.
b : a form of rhetorical expression intended to convince or persuade
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/argument

LordReed:


Yes and Islam has 1.8billion followers when are you going to convert to Islam?

and Christianity is the largest.FYI my dad is Muslim convert.

LordReed:


Definition of argument
1a : the act or process of arguing, reasoning, or discussing : ARGUMENTATION
b : a coherent series of reasons, statements, or facts intended to support or establish a point of view
a defense attorney's closing argument
c : an angry quarrel or disagreement
having an argument over/about money
trying to settle an argument
2a : a reason given for or against a matter under discussion
They presented their arguments in favor of the proposal.
b : a form of rhetorical expression intended to convince or persuade
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/argument

Ok. So you were arguing with FOLYKAZE about God's existence and I made some inputs to support his stance and johnydon22 made some contributions to support yours.

Arguments are beneficial so long one learns from them. I just don't like arguing with folks who argue for the mere sake of it and can present any point, whether reasonable or not, just to win the argument.

The primary aim of engaging in an argument, for me, is learning

malvisguy212:
and Christianity is the largest.FYI my dad is Muslim convert.

So why are you not a catholic, they are the largest Christian group.

gensteejay:

Ok. So you were arguing with FOLYKAZE about God's existence and I made some inputs to support his stance and johnydon22 made some contributions to support yours.

Arguments are beneficial so long one learns from them. I just don't like arguing with folks who argue for the mere sake of it and can present any point, whether reasonable or not, just to win the argument.

This is where you came in:

LordReed:


When I or you say elephant I have a reasonable expectation of what we are referring to however with the god concepts there are so many differing definitions, it is always prudent to ask the person proposing a god to define the god.

If you are proposing a Gaia, define Gaia and how we may know Gaia exists.

gensteejay:
Gaia was a goddess popular in many cultures, including Ancient Greece, Ancient Egypt, etc. and has other names such as Earthus, etc.

Otem has a number of histories of her. And if you check Google, Wikipedia, you will get ample info about her.

I had made no argument for or against the existence of a god, instead I asked how we may know what a god is and how we may know it exists. A question I repeated to you. So what argument was I making?

LordReed:


This is where you came in:



I had made no argument for or against the existence of a god, instead I asked how we may know what a god is and how we may know it exists. A question I repeated to you. So what argument was I making?

Ok

LordReed:


So why are you not a catholic, they are the largest Christian group.

Catholic is no different from Christianity, it is just a matter of doctrinal issue.

malvisguy212:
Catholic is no different from Christianity, it is just a matter of doctrinal issue.

Well they are the largest so they must be right.

gensteejay:

Ok. So you were arguing with FOLYKAZE about God's existence and I made some inputs to support his stance and johnydon22 made some contributions to support yours.

Actually my contributions wasn't in support of LordReed, it was a question demanding clarity from you.

I don't see how that simple question is difficult to comprehend

But this comment now shows me what your problem is, it is all about, me or us vs you or them, hence when someone asks a simple question, you go on the offensive giving the impression you don't even understand what they said in the first place.

johnydon22:
Actually my contributions wasn't in support of LordReed, it was a question demanding clarity from you.

I don't see how that simple question is difficult to comprehend

But this comment now shows me what your problem is, it is all about, me or us vs you or them, hence when someone asks a simple question, you go on the offensive giving the impression you don't even understand what they said in the first place.

Keep denying what's obvious. Anybody one that followed our discussion from the first 2 times you mentioned me on this thread would see your comments are in support of the atheistic position of your fellow atheist.

Once you ask someone a question and they state their opinion and you then disagree with their stance, an argument has started.

It's quite simple and needs no twisting or lies.

gensteejay:

Keep denying what's obvious. Anybody one that followed our discussion from the first 2 times you mentioned me on this thread would see your comments are in support of the atheistic position of your fellow atheist.

Once you ask someone a question and they state their opinion and you then disagree with their stance, an argument has started.

It's quite simple and needs no twisting or lies.

Oh God. I give up!!!

gensteejay:

Keep denying what's obvious. Anybody one that followed our discussion from the first 2 times you mentioned me on this thread would see your comments are in support of the atheistic position of your fellow atheist.

Once you ask someone a question and they state their opinion and you then disagree with their stance, an argument has started.

It's quite simple and needs no twisting or lies.

How can you disagree with a question asking you for clarification?

.

LordReed:


How can you disagree with a question asking you for clarification?

Maybe he just wants to be agreed with when he is disagreed with.

Read my response when he said "All these questions will complicate things".

Some silly comments and arguments are better ignored. No time for cyclical arguments.

LordReed:


Well they are the largest so they must be right.

so why are you not a Catholic ?

LordReed:

As for definitions, it remains imperative each god claimant defines the god they claim exists because it happens that the claims have as much difference as the people who make the claims.

Yet, defining God, is just about an impossibly thing to do since we all grab on to tiny bits of the elephant we are being asked to define. There is after all a reason why it is written that:

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

A rule you, my Lord, are asking one to break when you ask one to define God, which is, make an image of God for you my Lord to see, to which my appropriate response would be, "Get behind me my Lord!! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view and not from God’s.”

gensteejay:
Some silly comments and arguments are better ignored. No time for cyclical arguments.

You are not forced to engage gensteejay. Just ignore us fools and go find something better to do.

malvisguy212:
LordReed, HardMirror. I remembered one incident that happened in a village, I forgot the name of this village. my dad went for evangelism in this village ( almost 10 years back ) as he was preaching to the villagers ,house to house, each home he preach and left, two women will enter the house he left and speak bad about my dad and the Gospel, that how the women continuing doing . my dad sleep in the village till the next morning, as he was preparing to leave , many of the villagers came and meet my dad, they want to become Christians.

so in spit of how the women criticized the Gospel. the villagers still accept and converted. THE GOSPEL PREVAILED . so keep it up boys. thank you.

ok

malvisguy212:
so why are you not a Catholic ?

Because I don't believe. You on the other do and seem to think high numbers mean something so again why aren't you catholic since they are the largest Christian group.

budaatum:

Yet, defining God, is just about an impossibly thing to do since we all grab on to tiny bits of the elephant we are being asked to define. There is after all a reason why it is written that:

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

A rule you, my Lord, are asking one to break when you ask one to define God, which is, make an image of God for you my Lord to see, to which my appropriate response would be, "Get behind me my Lord!! You are a dangerous trap to me. You are seeing things merely from a human point of view and not from God’s.”

My dearest buda, I agree that I am very blind to the god so like the blind men touching an elephant, I cast about for the god. Which is why I ask those who seem to have comprehended the nature of god so that perhaps I may know too and not believe like I used to.

LordReed:


My dearest buda, I agree that I am very blind to the god so like the blind men touching an elephant, I cast about for the god. Which is why I ask those who seem to have comprehended the nature of god so that perhaps I may know too and not believe like I used to.

I doubt you can learn much about God on threads like this, unless you do your research personally, like most of us have done and still do.

Sometimes, knowledge isn't enough. The main thing is experience: A single experience can change one's view about God, life, permanently.

So, it all boils down to time. When the time is right, we gain knowledge and experience on certain life issues to grow.

budaatum:

Maybe he just wants to be agreed with when he is disagreed with.

Read my response when he said "All these questions will complicate things".

I think he expects to be disagreed with before he even engages hence statements like "this is why I don't like arguing with atheists".

gensteejay:

I doubt you can learn much about God on threads like this, unless you do your research personally, like most of us have done and still do.

Sometimes, knowledge isn't enough. The main thing is experience: A single experience can change one's view about God, life, permanently.

So, it all boils down to time. When the time is right, we gain knowledge and experience on certain life issues to grow.

And you've had experience with the god? What kind?

LordReed:


And you've had experience with the god? What kind?

Not at all. I am a rationalist and read a lot. I read anything from books on science, to technology, history, philosophy, religions.

From what I have studied, especially in philosophy, history, science, religion, it would be unreasonable for me to deny the existence of God Almighty or the First Cause.

Also, when I dream, a number of the things I dream about come to past. Over time, I have learnt to understand that dreams could be a potent guide for one in life.

And this sort of dreams are different from the type the brain makes up from our thoughts and desires. The accuracy is too remarkable and frequency too noteworthy to attribute them to workings of the brain.

There are so many mysteries in life that science can't explain as of yet.

Sometimes, dead people reveal things to their relatives, friends in dreams, which they later found out to be true. I have experienced something of this sort a few times.

People that have experienced this kind of thing would know that dead people continue to exist in other realms (worlds).

How does science explain the fact that our parents, especially our mothers, seem to know what we think even without telling them or staying with them? Months before I left religion, my mum saw it in a dream.

These experiences are personal and subjective, no doubt.

Maybe only people that have experienced such can understand this.

From my experience about life and the little knowledge I have about philosophy, history, science, it will be unreasonable for me to say God doesn't exist. And the way I view God is quite different from the gods of religion.

LordReed:


My dearest buda, I agree that I am very blind to the god so like the blind men touching an elephant, I cast about for the god. Which is why I ask those who seem to have comprehended the nature of god so that perhaps I may know too and not believe like I used to.

I do not think any one can make you know God my Lord, and asking one is like you not studying for an exam and asking those who have to share their work with you or you not filling you jar with extra oil and asking those who do to give you some of theirs, and let me tell you my Lord, for some odd reason, I just don't see you as one of those who "worship at a distance" or one who "must not come near".

In you, my Lord, do I see one who must and would do as buda does and go up with Moses and Aaron and Nadab and Abihu and seventy of the elders of Israel and look on the face of the Lord for yourself, at least going by your, "perhaps I may know too". You are indeed not one to ask for bread and accept stones. You, my Lord, seek and "cast about for the god", as you confess, and I can safely say that those who seek shall find. My only fear is that when you do find, you shall not be disturbed, which is why I pray for you my Lord.

budaatum:

I do not think any one can make you know God my Lord, and asking one is like you not studying for an exam and asking those who have to share their work with you or you not filling you jar with extra oil and asking those who do to give you some of theirs, and let me tell you my Lord, for some odd reason, I just don't see you as one of those who "worship at a distance" or one who "must not come near".

In you, my Lord, do I see one who must and would do as buda does and go up with Moses and Aaron and Nadab and Abihu and seventy of the elders of Israel and look on the face of the Lord for yourself, at least going by your, "perhaps I may know too". You are indeed not one to ask for bread and accept stones. You, my Lord, seek and "cast about for the god", as you confess, and I can safely say that those who seek shall find. My only fear is that when you do find, you shall not be disturbed, which is why I pray for you my Lord.

The problem is I went my dear buda and saw nothing. The mountain did not smoke and a voice did not trumpet. Which is why I say I must be blind to the god. Please pray for me dear buda mayhap some kind stranger shall spit on mud and use it to heal my eyes.

gensteejay:

Not at all. I am a rationalist and read a lot. I read anything from books on science, to technology, history, philosophy, religions.

From what I have studied, especially in philosophy, history, science, religion, it would be unreasonable for me to deny the existence of God Almighty or the First Cause.

Also, when I dream, a number of the things I dream about come to past. Over time, I have learnt to understand that dreams could be a potent guide for one in life.

And this sort of dreams are different from the type the brain makes up from our thoughts and desires. The accuracy is too remarkable and frequency too noteworthy to attribute them to workings of the brain.

There are so many mysteries in life that science can't explain as of yet.

Sometimes, dead people reveal things to their relatives, friends in dreams, which they later found out to be true. I have experienced something of this sort a few times.

People that have experienced this kind of thing would know that dead people continue to exist in other realms (worlds).

How does science explain the fact that our parents, especially our mothers, seem to know what we think even without telling them or staying with them? Months before I left religion, my mum saw it in a dream.

These experiences are personal and subjective, no doubt.

Maybe only people that have experienced such can understand this.

From my experience about life and the little knowledge I have about philosophy, history, science, it will be unreasonable for me to say God doesn't exist. And the way I view God is quite different from the gods of religion.

The problem is not finding an explanation of which they have and its called intuition but the real problem is with testing these kinds of experiences, the results they give have no consistency nor do they support the idea of an otherworldly intervention.

At some point I was leaning towards the idea that our minds are remote controls for the world around us but I paused and asked "what evidence do you have to support such an idea?". That stopped me dead in my tracks. I was about to accept another line of magic thinking for which I have no evidence, I will not do that to myself again. I must have firm proof for whatever I must espouse as the truth of our reality.

Contrary to what you think, that I am closed to the possibility of gods existing, I am not. Like I told my dear budaatum, I hold out a somewhat diminishing hope that the existence of a god may be proved to exist in my lifetime.

LordReed:


The problem is not finding an explanation of which they have and its called intuition but the real problem is with testing these kinds of experiences, the results they give have no consistency nor do they support the idea of an otherworldly intervention.

At some point I was leaning towards the idea that our minds are remote controls for the world around us but I paused and asked "what evidence do you have to support such an idea?". That stopped me dead in my tracks. I was about to accept another line of magic thinking for which I have no evidence, I will not do that to myself again. I must have firm proof for whatever I must espouse as the truth of our reality.

Contrary to what you think, that I am closed to the possibility of gods existing, I am not. Like I told my dear budaatum, I hold out a somewhat diminishing hope that the existence of a god may be proved to exist in my lifetime.

All right.

LordReed:


How does reading prove that the gods you say are dead exist? Your gods have moved to a place that we have no way of investigating and I even allowed for the possibility of their existence so what is closed minded about that?

I have said once and I will say it again, stories are not enough to prove gods, you going to need more substantial proof than that. I don't believe in Big Foot or Loch Ness monster because I have not seen substantial proof that they exist yet I have read a lot about them.

You don't believe in big foot? U are close minded... Read about it?