MightySparrow:
I think these are overflogged issues. if you judge the bible principles to be true pay your tithes and offerings,first fruits, vows, thanksgiving offerings,sacrificial offering, freewill etb as for me, they work for me, evidence not arguement.

Goshen360:
Simply put,

Tithe since ages and since Nigerian Christians had been paying, they have not become one of the richest or wealthiest people on the planet earth but rather their so called pastors have being ranked top ten richest in Africa......Pause for a minute and RE-Think about this!

Bottom line, tithe had never made any tithe payer rich or wealthy, it's is hardworking/deligence, God's grace on you and your work, effective use of your brain or senses or ideas to plan/management of your money so your money can work for you.....THESE ARE WHAT RICH AND WEALTHY PEOPLE DO THEY DO NOT PRAY TO BE BLESS THROUGH TITHING NEITHER DO THEY TITHE.

MuttleyLaff:
Extra simply, put imposed and/or obligatory ecclesiastical monitised tithe giving hasnt produced a believer ever yet on the first ten of the Forbes' list

Goshen360:
Simply put,

Tithe since ages and since Nigerian Christians had been paying, they have not become one of the richest or wealthiest people on the planet earth but rather their so called pastors have being ranked top ten richest in Africa......Pause for a minute and RE-Think about this!

Bottom line, tithe had never made any tithe payer rich or wealthy, it's is hardworking/deligence, God's grace on you and your work, effective use of your brain or senses or ideas to plan/management of your money so your money can work for you.....THESE ARE WHAT RICH AND WEALTHY PEOPLE DO THEY DO NOT PRAY TO BE BLESS THROUGH TITHING NEITHER DO THEY TITHE.

MuttleyLaff:
Extra simply put, imposed and/or obligatory ecclesiastical monitised tithe giving hasnt produced a believer ever yet on the first ten of the Forbes' list

sukerefakere:
GBAM!!!!!

chiedu7:
That is OLD TESTAMENT

Just as we dont kill Lambs anymore, we dont tithe.


Most tithe chopping GOs get private jet.
So it works for the GOs just not the Church members.

Since these Pastoreuers love the old testament doctrine of tithes, then explain to us why they dont share the tithes with the less privileged as God commands?

The bible commands that the tithes should be given to the poor, instead the poor tithe to keep the GOs flying their jets

Deuteronomy 26:12
When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;

Dencotext:
Please verify what is meant to be an outcast in old testament Israel. So if you agreed with me that the outcast Levites are the widows and fatherless...of course everyone have a father... then our tithes should only bè given to the churches or priests. Tithe is holy and was only intended for the priests and for the house of GOD and God's work. It was never intended to be given for any others purposes! Just take your time and study how tithes was used in several scriptures, not just one scripture that the context was not well understood, and draw a general conclusion on God's prefferred usage of tithes!

CodeTemplar:
Tithe has always been scriptural but those envious of the growth the church is seeing have decided it will be best to drain the church of its finance. It will not succeed.

Dencotext:

Well the statistics should tell. From 1990 when I gave my life to Christ newly till 2009, my average monthly earning never exceeded N10,000 at the peak! That is a periodi of twenty years and man I have become old already, passed the age of useful employment.

When I started tithing in 2010, I was giving exactly N800/month and by 2015 when I left Nigeria, I was sowing N35,000/month as tithing. And that was a period of 5 years! By your surmise maybe this was a good coincidence or I have simply become lucky while tithing when I was over 40 years old?! I like this luck then...

Now I am in Europe. Under 5 years I got my Bachelor degree also and now I am doing my Master degree. When I asked GOD why this was happening while tithing, He told me... HAVE YOU NOTICED THAT TITHING IS NOT INTENDED TO MAKE YOU RICH? RATHER IT IS INTENDED TO MAKE YOU BLESSED. I HAVE BLESSED YOU FINANCIALLY, MENTALLY, SPIRITUALLY, ACADEMICALLY, HEALTH WISE, AND EVEN MATERIALLY. WITHIN 5 YEARS YOU HAVE ACHIEVED ALL YOUR DREAMS, BOUGHT LAND, RENTED A BIG APARTMENT, GOTTEN A DEGREE, AMASSED WEALTH AND TRAVELLED TO BASE ABROAD IN ITALY.

I said GOD forgive me. I thought it was to get us richer FINANCIALLY only! But now I know you intended to BLESS us and to keep us happy and contented! So I will tell people the truth. Back to you, since you did not believe in BLESSING since tithing did not augur well with you? Do you believe in GOODLUCK at least? Maybe I HAVE simply been Buona Fortuna (in italiano) while tithing so I like losing my money that way to churches and pastors.

Goshen360:


First let me say this,

The kingdom truth ARE HIDDEN AND REVEALED IN THE PARABLES OF CHRIST. That being said, let me go to my points in response to what you said above:

1. There are millions of people who do not tithe but ARE STILL BLESSED OR BETTER BLESSED SPIRITUALLY, FINANCIALLY, MENTALLY, ACADEMICALLY, HEALTH WISE etc as you mentioned above? I'm a living example and also knows people who are doing well or more than those paying tithes. So the question is....WHAT IS WORKING FOR THOSE NOT TITHING BUT STILL ENJOY THE SAME OR MORE THAN THOSE WHO PAY TTHE.... I'll tell you what it is ----- The kingdom truth Christ hid in HIS PARABLES....The heavenly Father makes rain fall on the just and the unjust!

2. What good father will tell his children to bring tithes first BEFORE he will bless them?

3. It's typical of tithe payers to always or mostly think from their minds that God is talking to them not knowing their thinking of their mind how maybe their paying tithe is what is working for them whenever they making some progress.

4. I'm am BLESSED TODAY NOT BECAUSE I PAY TITHE BUT BECAUSE IM A STANDSTILL GIVER. I give to people around me that I see suffering, I set people up with business capitals, I support church that are just growing, etc...I do these and don't even want them calling me to thank me. You know why? I know to whom much is given, much is expected and I was given by God for myself but for myself and people around me.

Goshen360:
I might or not stop responding to you depending how the thread goes or how I feel from the content of your response? Because I'm beginning to feel you are using more sentiments peddled with a little verse here and I little verse there

First of all, I'm never equating myself to God as giver OF LIFE....you came up here with "sentiments" added like or as if I'm equating myself to God as giver of life. When I said that I'm a STANDSTILL GIVER.... off course everyone reading understand that in context I'm referring to money and anything someone can easily afford to give....my time, my documents to invite someone or as co sponsor etc. So let's understand that.

2. Everything any man gives, it's ALWAYS A PERCENTAGE OF WHATEVER HE OR SHE HAS OR WAS GIVEN. If I have 100 and I DECIDED IN MY HEART..... according to scripture you quoted, to give 15 percent....I still have 85 percentage to deal with my expense and bills from and doesn't mean I'm keeping the whole of 85 percentage to myself. That's why scripture says decide in your heart what you will give IN KEEPING UP WITH YOUR HOUSEHOLD...(my paraphrase)

3. The scripture you quoted also said, ....NOT UNDER COMPULSION....you should give. Don't you think that doesn't meet tithe requirement because tithe is a FIXED PERCENTAGE...a tenth! It's being legalistic and A MUST DO! Christian giving is a or wasn't taught TO BE A MUST DO OR BEING LEGALISTIC as though guided BY A LAW TO DO IT.

4. When I give to help growing church in Nigeria or support a growing ministry, it's a certain percentage of my income and when I give to care for my wife and parent in Nigeria that's a certain percentage also, when I care for friends and those in need, that's another percentage....I WON'T CALL NONE OF THOSE TITHE because every requirement you have to meet for it to me called Tithe is NO MORE IN PLACE AND EFFECTIVE UNDER THE NEW TESTAMENT.

5. LASTLY, I want to REFUTE the FACT that, there are people WHO DO NOT give the so called "TITHE" but still score A1 or excellent in exams and also have good health, blessed with children and good things of life....what is it responsible for the BLESSINGS of those kind of people if THEY DO NOT TITHE.... because what I see your doing is tying up your grades and success TO TITHING as if you just tithe and go to sleep and don't have any other input whatsoever.

Dencotext:


Though you took time to write defensively, but I will still bare my mind. I do not like ambiguity. Please it would be better to be precise about the facts of what you gave and how God blessed you.

Well I got B2 in math in 1988 when I was not tithing and again I got A1 in 2007 on my second attempt when I was not tithing,

so I wonder why you took delight in outrightly discrediting others.

God blessed you because you gave,


1. please tell us exactly what you did,
2. what you gave,
3. and how it happened that He blessed you


I want to solved my problems by understanding how God works. I did not get to where I am here today by storytelling. Please I BEG YOU be practical... I will commend you when you write what WE LEARNED from I promised.

Goshen360:


Okay....I broke your comments into paragraphs and I'm responding to you according to how I broke it down above:

First of all, I don't have to put FIGURES out here to who and who I gave support to. I'm a believer and I know lying is not of the Spirit of God so if you can't believe what I'm saying that's ok.... I'm only saying to you and to your/our audience BECAUSE of the same claims you claim about what and what you did and how you was blessed and or had good or better grades BECAUSE YOU TITHE.

AGAIN AND AGAIN....you keep repeating your grades when tithe or when not tithe....I'm asking you or challenging YOU....ARE THERE NO PEOPLE WHO DID NOT TITHE IN THE SAME YEAR YOU WROTE THE SAME EXAM BUT PERFORMED BETTER THAN YOU OR HAD BETTER GRADES THAN YOU? Answer my question!

I'm NOT discrediting anyone....IM REFUTING AND CHALLENGING the wrong teaching or sentiments you passing accross as regards tithing.

Good didn't bless me BECAUSE I GAVE....I gave (NOT THAT I TITHE) BECAUSE IM ALREADY BLESSED BY GOD. No man can give what he doesn't have!

Regards question one to three...it's already being answered above!

We know how God works from His word and we're not talking about story telling here, we all should take action. But you confused or mix tithe with giving....I separate them....while tithe is a FIXED LEGALISTIC 10 PERCENTAGE..... giving is any percentage as one decide in his heart in keeping with your household expenses and that could be any percentage.

Dencotext:
Ahahaha this bobo dey fear tithing like say na ojuju...see how e dey call am, "FIXED LEGALISTIC 10 PERCENTAGE"! So we way dey tithe we no be givers bah? Na legalistic dogmatic irrelevant religious ritual creed we just dey observe bah? Make me too speak big grammar here.

Goshen360:


Oga Ade, follow the argument and contribute meaningfully. Okay.

The argument here is the OP claiming BECAUSE he tithe, he's being able to secure better things in life such as better exam grades, good health, success etc etc....but my rebrutal is, are there no people in life that don't tithe and still achieve these same BETTER THINGS IN LIFE OR EVEN MORE?

If there are people that doesn't tithe but still achieve same better things in life, what is it working for those kind of people? I think the OP was calling it luck or so....so evidently if he agrees it is luck working for those people, then you can't conclude tithe is a UNIVERSAL TRUTH THAT WORKS EVERYWHERE ANYTIME to give someone good health, better grades and success etc

Refer to Exodus 30 v 13-16 for where God gave the instruction through Moses;

13 This shall every man give, that goeth into the number, half a shekel, after the [a]shekel of the Sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs) the half shekel shall be an offering to the Lord.
14 All that are numbered from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering to the Lord.
15 The rich shall not pass, and the poor shall not diminish from half a shekel, when ye shall give an offering unto the Lord, for the redemption of your lives.
16 So thou shalt take the money of the redemption of the children of Israel, and shalt put it unto the use of the Tabernacle of the Congregation, that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the Lord, for the redemption of your lives.

Refer to Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29;

22 Thou shalt give the tithe of all the increase of thy seed, that cometh forth of the field year by year.
23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God (in the place which he shall choose to cause his Name to dwell there) the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstborn of thy kine, and of thy sheep, that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always.
24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it, because the place is far from thee, where the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name, when the Lord thy God shall bless thee,
25 Then shalt thou make it in money, and take the money in thine hand, and go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose.
26 And thou shalt bestow the money for whatsoever thine heart desireth: whether it be ox, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatsoever thine heart desireth: and shalt eat it there before the Lord thy God, and rejoice, both thou, and thine household.
27 And the Levite that is within thy gates, shalt thou not forsake: for he hath neither part nor inheritance with thee.
28 At the end of three years thou shalt [e]bring forth all the tithes of thine increase of the same year, and lay it up within thy gates.
29 Then the Levite shall come, because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, and shall eat, and be filled, that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

OkCornel:
When pro-tithers are ready to show us where God specifically mentioned money as part of the items to be tithed, then they should know that monetary tithing is unscriptural.




When God required money for the needs of the Temple, He specifically mentioned where all Israelite males should be levied a temple tax of half a shekel every year. That was an instance of God clearly asking for money.


BASED ON THE ABOVE, IT WAS CLEAR WHEN & HOW GOD ASKED FOR MONEY TO MAINTAIN THE TEMPLE...




NOW LET US EXAMINE GOD'S REQUIREMENT FOR TITHES BELOW;



Based on the above verses, God clearly mentioned what is titheable, and money was not part of the items to be tithed.

IN CONCLUSION:
Any fraudster that comes with the excuse that money was not in use because the Israelites were predominantly farmers and cattle rearers...should read Exodus 30 v 13-16 and explain to us why God demanded money from these same Israelites...but specified crops and livestock as tithes in Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29;

Also, I'll be waiting for scriptural references where God made tithing mandatory for gentiles as well.

OkCornel:
When pro-tithers are ready to show us where God specifically mentioned money as part of the items to be tithed, then they should know that monetary tithing is unscriptural....

Dencotext:
First and foremost I must confess, I enjoyed everything you wrote to the last penny . Your revelations and understanding of the Bible is so sound, I only want to thank you now for contributing to this forum. In due time, I will respond to explain how the economic/financial system of things have changed when compared to those good old days and whether or not a gentile should be tithing. Please take my future response in the spirit of discussion and learning.

Dencotext:
I want to be honest with you, I see myself as a neutral observer in this world. The best word to describe my approach to life is that I am a RESEARCHER. The first major mistake I made all my life was to take bible words either too spiritual, figurative, or seeking it for mere knowledge only. Bible teaches about FAITH in God, but above all, FAITH is dead without WORKS. But now I prefer to do what I think Bible says, like an experiment, and see personally how it works for me first before I recommend it for anybody.

I started tithing around 2009 faithfully more out of despair. (I prefer to use the word TITHING because it is a verb that denotes continuity of works). I wondered why God never seemed to answer my prayers to get out of abject poverty in Abuja, which I faced from 1996 to 2009 or 10 years. To cut a very long story short when I started tithing in 2009 I was earning N8,000 but now I am living in Europe worth million in terms of naira by 2019 or exactly 10 years later. Though my financial status changed but my emphasis is that I got more blessed!

Well the financial system of those days God spoke to the Israelite is different from today. God told Daniel that the image in Nebuchadnezzer dream has a gold head, bronze body, and iron and clay legs. The first and best government and economic system is the kingly rule and trade by barter. But the weakest form of government and economic system is the presidential and monetary financial system of today. Revelation must be fulfilled, we are in the era that the beast 666 is taking control of the financial system.

I fully agree with you that tithing was done with the increase of the land, but today we barely can be tithing with the increase of the land, but by monetary exchange, which can be used to purchase those things. Our sweat now is by measured by the money we earn… this is indeed the lowest economic system in God’s sight as you said, but I myself can barely do anything about that. So I device a SIMPLE way of evaluating the increase of my land… I simply cannot use 10% of my monetary income money for tithing… it those not take care of the extra increase and favors I get in daily life. I have to pay above 10% all the time, if I want my monetary to reflect plus the extra favors… may be like a 15% or more. And I am not perfect, I simply make room for the excess favors before and ahead of time. Yes God never say money specifically, but money is ours today, so we should chose what we deem is our increase. Sorry, I prefer converting my wealth to money equivalent before tithing… though I have given out other things too like clothes and so on... but not as tithing.

Finally as to whether a gentile should be tithing? Well we both know God is not partial, does not favor one person above another person. He does not love Abel, Job, Abraham, Israel, and so on, above us the gentiles. Now I must quote scriptures EPH 4: 4-6 “There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all”.

Based on the latest revelation I have in God as I am tithing till date, I came to realize that God is an eternal Spirit THAT does not change with time. He made me understand that human beings, in real sense, cannot give directly to God. WE GIVE TO THE CHURCH OR TEMPLE OR TO OUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS. But any time a man for any reason decides to want to literally honor Him God Almighty…I do not mean just thanking Him per se with our lips but to reverence Him with our gifts... that gifts to God is considered Holy and God does no accept anything less than our tithing or firstfruits. The two gifts are the only gifts considered Holy in the Bible because it is given to honor God directly. In the case of Abel and Cain, this was no mistake oversight by God, Cain did not give His first fruit or tithes. God used Abel’s gifts (firstfruits and the blood) to let Cain and all mankind thereafter know how to reverence Him with their gifts. Abel was not an Israelite. This same method was used by Job, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and given by Moses to the Israelite. And today Christ says there is no difference between Israelites and the Gentiles in Christ, because we are one body. We have ever been one body from the day of creation.

OkCornel:


I'll reply this tomorrow...

Meanwhile, do you believe non tithers are under the devourer's curse as per the book of Malachi?

Dencotext:
I want to be honest with you, I see myself as a neutral observer in this world. The best word to describe my approach to life is that I am a RESEARCHER. The first major mistake I made all my life was to take bible words either too spiritual, figurative, or seeking it for mere knowledge only. Bible teaches about FAITH in God, but above all, FAITH is dead without WORKS. But now I prefer to do what I think Bible says, like an experiment, and see personally how it works for me first before I recommend it for anybody.

Dencotext:

I started tithing around 2009 faithfully more out of despair. (I prefer to use the word TITHING because it is a verb that denotes continuity of works). I wondered why God never seemed to answer my prayers to get out of abject poverty in Abuja, which I faced from 1996 to 2009 or 10 years. To cut a very long story short when I started tithing in 2009 I was earning N8,000 but now I am living in Europe worth million in terms of naira by 2019 or exactly 10 years later. Though my financial status changed but my emphasis is that I got more blessed!

Dencotext:

Well the financial system of those days God spoke to the Israelite is different from today. God told Daniel that the image in Nebuchadnezzer dream has a gold head, bronze body, and iron and clay legs. The first and best government and economic system is the kingly rule and trade by barter. But the weakest form of government and economic system is the presidential and monetary financial system of today. Revelation must be fulfilled, we are in the era that the beast 666 is taking control of the financial system.

Dencotext:

I fully agree with you that tithing was done with the increase of the land, but today we barely can give tithing with the increase of the land, but by monetary exchange, which can be used to purchase those things.

Dencotext:

Our sweat now is measured by the money we earn… this is indeed the lowest economic system in God’s sight as you said, but I myself can barely do anything about that.

Dencotext:

So I deviced a SIMPLE way of evaluating the increase of my land… I simply cannot use 10% of my monetary income money for tithing… it does not take care of the extra increase and favors I get daily in life. I have to pay above 10% all the time, that is if I want my money to reflect the extra favors… may be i have to give like a 15% or more. Because I am not perfect, I simply make room for the excess favors before and ahead of time. Yes God never say money specifically, but money is what we use today, so we should chose what we deem is our increase. Sorry, I prefer converting my wealth to money equivalent before tithing… though I have given out other things too like clothes and so on... but not as tithing.

Finally as to whether a gentile should be tithing? Well we both know God is not partial, does not favor one person above another person. He does not love Abel, Job, Abraham, Israel, and so on, above us the gentiles. Now I must quote scriptures EPH 4: 4-6 “There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all”.

Based on the latest revelation I have in God as I am tithing till date, I came to realize that God is an eternal Spirit THAT does not change with time. He made me understand that human beings, in real sense, cannot give directly to God. WE GIVE TO THE CHURCH OR TEMPLE OR TO OUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS. But any time a man for any reason decides to want to literally honor Him God Almighty…I do not mean just thanking Him per se with our lips but to reverence Him with our gifts... that gifts to God is considered Holy and God does no accept anything less than our tithing or firstfruits. The two gifts are the only gifts considered Holy in the Bible because it is given to honor God directly. In the case of Abel and Cain, this was no mistaken oversight by God, Cain did not give His first fruit or tithes. God used Abel’s gifts (firstfruits and the blood) to let Cain and all mankind thereafter know how to reverence Him with their gifts. Abel was not an Israelite. This same method was used by Job, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and given by Moses to the Israelite. And today Christ says there is no difference between Israelites and the Gentiles in Christ, because we are one body. We have ever been one body from the day of creation.