1. If a god exists, belief or lack thereof does nothing to change the situation.

2. If a god exists and is the source of all morality but yet you can adhere to the morality without belief then belief adds nothing to the equation.

Going by these to points above I am inclined to say belief in god is useless.

I could add more to this as time goes on but I'd be happy to hear your view.

LordReed:
1. If a god exists, belief or lack thereof does nothing to change the situation.

Wrong! Is that not what we Nigerians call "Connections"?

Who in Nigeria will shun connections with Pres. Buhari, Ministers, Governors etc?

It is always profitable and gainful to be "Connected" to He that can deliver good in Nigerian english "make things Happen"!

Dtruthspeaker:


Wrong! Is that not what we Nigerians call "Connections"?

Who in Nigeria will shun connections with Pres. Buhari, Ministers, Governors etc?

It is always profitable and gainful to be "Connected" to He that can deliver good in Nigerian english "make things Happen"!

Buhari exists whether you believe him or not. Buhari will act whether you believe him or not. Ergo belief in Buhari is useless.

LordReed:

2. If a god exists and is the source of all morality but yet you can adhere to the morality without belief then belief adds nothing to the equation.

I agree that it is possible to be moral BUT your Morality Must be Limited to ONLY THE THINGS YOU ALREADY KNOW ARE MORAL!

Therefore Stuck in the past and not being able to update!

Also, you will and must fail in those things which are also Moral, But you did not Know that they were also a Moral, and thus required to be complied with!

And this is where the Advantage of being In Connection to The Source, Origin and The Maker/Discarder of Morality is Greatly Advantageous, for now, such a one can keep All moralities both past, present and future.

LordReed:

Going by these to points above I am inclined to say belief in god is useless.

I could add more this as time goes on but I be happy to hear your view.

I have shot it down!

LordReed:


Buhari exists whether you believe him or not. Buhari will act whether you believe him or not. Ergo belief in Buhari is useless.

True! But the point of believe is to use for good and profitable use, for "Believe" Truly means "Begin-to-Live"!

Which further means "To Act on an Information or Knowledge"!

So Buhari is useless if I can not get any good thing from him! Therefore, he is dispensible!

Dtruthspeaker:


I agree that it is possible to be moral BUT your Morality Must be Limited to ONLY THE THINGS YOU ALREADY KNOW ARE MORAL!

Therefore Stuck in the past and not being able to update!

Also, you will and must fail in those things which are also Moral, But you did not Know that they were also a Moral, are required to abide with!

And this is where the Advantage of being In Connection to The Source, Origin and The Maker/Discarder of Morality is Greatly Advantageous, for now, such a one can keep All moralities both past, present and future.



I have shot it down!

You didn't. You did "wuru wuru to the answer".

If we grant objective morality exists and one can adhere to it without belief then it's already granted that all aspects of Morality are covered, you introduced a false dichotomy in order to assume a victory.

You really need to stop thinking of winning discussions and start engaging honestly.

Dtruthspeaker:


True! But the point of believe is to use for good and profitable use, for "Believe" Truly means "Begin-to-Live"!

Which further means "To Act on an Information or Knowledge"!

So Buhari is useless if I can not get any good thing from him! Therefore, he is dispensible!

So what if he is dispensible? He still doesn't require belief.

LordReed:

1. If a god exists, belief or lack thereof does nothing to change the situation.

I think you missed the in-depth meaning of the word "BELIEF" it simply connotes TRUST in what someone you know will do or won't do.
For instance you cited the example of Buhari, this man is the elected President the Commander in Chief of all the armed forces in Nigeria. If you say i know Buhari will do something it simply means you trust (believe) him, this depends on how much you know the man (Buhari)
If someone else say otherwise it's still the same thing, he doesn't know the man that much so whether you believe or not this man will strive to do what is best in his own eyes irrespective of the result his actions may bring whether positive or negative!

2. If a god exists and is the source of all morality but yet you can adhere to the morality without belief then belief adds nothing to the equation.
Going by these to points above I am inclined to say belief in god is useless.
I could add more to this as time goes on but I'd be happy to hear your view.

Adhering to some forms of morality is one thing and giving the glory and praise to the source is another thing, both are vital before any positive result is expected.
WHY?
Imagine little kids all playing in the field and while they're together most of them realized that one of them possessed fine qualities.
Remember they all see themselves as equal in sense so before the virtuous attributes of that single child could appeal to the majority then it must come from a superior, they can only agree to learn to put on those fine qualities if it belongs to someone superior to all of them, never will the majority agree to make their own mate a role model!
That's what is causing trouble in the world today, each and everyone wants to claim he/she knows what is best, nobody wants to submit to another.
The hypocritical religious leaders knew this fact that's why they're creating more Churches to woo people whose mindsets is in harmony with their own line of thought. Yet they want their gullible followers to think they're worshipers of the same God with religionists having a totally different idea from theirs!

LordReed:

You didn't. You did "wuru wuru to the answer".

,
But i did not, i will break it down for you to see under!

LordReed:

You really need to stop thinking of winning discussions and start engaging honestly.

I am actually not playing to win, for in winning, I would and must be set in a way i already know.

Now if that set way is wrong, how then can I change?

Therefore, my purposes for contention is to
1) To discover the weakness of my stand so that I could stand rightly.

2) Test the strength and extent of my "knowing" together with the confidence thereof, for it is only when we stand "on a ground" that we can ever be confidential, not on water or in the air, or sinking sands but Solid Grounds.

3) As I received, I therefore must give! And many of the grounds people stand on, I once stood on them but I also fell with them when they were challenged and by reason of this fall, I was able to find the Solid Grounds on which the earth is Laid and Stands on.

So when I move or shake the earth anything not perfectly founded must crumble.

4) Then, many times when I only wish to point an observation, I am reasonably and understandably called upon to defend that assertion, which based on the circumstances on ground (again ground) may result in bringing me shame or glow.

Thus, it is not my goal or desire to win an argument unless such argument is raised for the purpose of smearing, ridiculing or shaming me.

LordReed:

If we grant objective morality exists...

First, All Moralities are grounded on Good and Balance Reason, which hurts No One at all, hence the word "Reasonable" is always attached to any Moral Principle, being both objective and general and Subjective and Personal!

But whichever the case good reason will still be in them, Therefore, Morality Exists and is Always in Force!

LordReed:

...and one can adhere to it without belief then it's already granted that all aspects of Morality are covered, ..

Adherence to a thing, is "belief" of that thing for "Belief" refers to act and conduct of "Beginning to Live or Act on a thing or information!

LordReed:


So what if he is dispensible? He still doesn't require belief.

Because he has "no-live" that is, "No Life" to give me, therefore, I can not Live-on-or with-him!

Therefore, "No-Life" thus, "No belief!

LordReed:
1. If a god exists, belief or lack thereof does nothing to change the situation.

2. If a god exists and is the source of all morality but yet you can adhere to the morality without belief then belief adds nothing to the equation.

Going by these to points above I am inclined to say belief in god is useless.

I could add more to this as time goes on but I'd be happy to hear your view.

Threads like these always begin from premises that we often tend to just take for granted and assume we know what is meant. No one asks, What Is God, what is a belief, what does it mean to say a thing exists, and we all jump in claiming we all understand equally and mean the same thing when the truth is, we are all ignorant fuqs, relatively speaking. Pity. How much more knowledgeable we would be if we only tried harder instead of making out our relative beliefs and misunderstandings is all there is to know.

Anyway. Yes, my Lord, belief in God is pointless if one has the intellectual capacity to understand that by 'believing' one obviously does not know.

But if by "believe" you mean a provisional stopholder until you knock and ask and seek with all your heart and soul and being and mind until you discover and find and know and understand, then it is not pointless at all, because it would be like having an hypothesis, which is the beginning of research and learning so that one may actually know.

So, let buda pray. Oh Mighty and Everlasting Lord God who none of us has yet seen or truly know if or where You may exist, let us be minded to grant ourselves the strenght and powers for the intellectual rigour that subjects like this require.
And please do not let the lowly satan add its division of theist versus atheist into the mix so we do not learn. In the name of the Jesus I read about in a book do I buda pray. Amen

budaatum:


Threads like these always begin from premises that we often tend to just take for granted and assume we know what is meant. No one asks, What Is God, what is a belief, what does it mean to say a thing exists, and we all jump in claiming we all understand equally and mean the same thing when the truth is, we are all ignorant fuqs, relatively speaking. Pity. How much more knowledgeable we would be if we only tried harder instead of making out our relative beliefs and misunderstandings is all there is to know.

Anyway. Yes, my Lord, belief in God is pointless if one has the intellectual capacity to understand that by 'believing' one obviously does not know.

But if by "believe" you mean a provisional stopholder until you knock and ask and seek with all your heart and soul and being and mind until you discover and find and know and understand, then it is not pointless at all, because it would be like having an hypothesis, which is the beginning of research and learning so that one may actually know.

So, let buda pray. Oh Mighty and Everlasting Lord God who none of us has yet seen or truly know if or where You may exist, let us be minded to grant ourselves the strenght and powers for the intellectual rigour that subjects like this require.
And please do not let the lowly satan add its division of theist versus atheist into the mix so we do not learn. In the name of the Jesus I read about in a book do I buda pray. Amen

You are praying to someone whose existence you doubt.
That doesn't make sense.
If you don't know if God exist,then you shouldn't pray to God.
I KNOW THAT GOD DOESN'T EXIST.
I ALSO DON'T BELIEVE GOD EXISTS.

LordReed:
1. If a god exists, belief or lack thereof does nothing to change the situation.

2. If a god exists and is the source of all morality but yet you can adhere to the morality without belief then belief adds nothing to the equation.

Going by these to points above I am inclined to say belief in god is useless.

I could add more to this as time goes on but I'd be happy to hear your view.

Without faith, it is impossible to please God. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Realize these truth and you are on your way to freedom.

HellVictorinho:


You are praying to someone whose existence you doubt.
That doesn't make sense.
If you don't know if God exist,then you shouldn't pray to God.
I KNOW THAT GOD DOESN'T EXIST.
I ALSO DON'T BELIEVE GOD EXISTS.

Doubt? buda? Is your head okay at all? Please read very carefully!

Gods do not exist except in the heads of those who create Gods inside their own heads.

If you do not understand, please ask questions. And do not ever dare assume you can be telling buda what buda can or can not do as if you are the God of buda. Your powers do not extend into buda's head! buda will pray to thin air if buda wants to.

Image123:


Without faith, it is impossible to please God. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Realize these truth and you are on your way to freedom.

Have you not heard of the Parable of the Orangutan? The orangutan had no faith and did not know God, yet Jesus said, "Go and do likewise".

www.nairaland.com/attachments/11039027_psx20200212120340_jpegb63adb5ff044a1c031e3dde7d11e9cd7

HellVictorinho:


You are praying to someone whose existence you doubt.
That doesn't make sense.
If you don't know if God exist,then you shouldn't pray to God.
I KNOW THAT GOD DOESN'T EXIST.
I ALSO DON'T BELIEVE GOD EXISTS.

oh oh oooh!

budaatum:


Doubt? buda? Is your head okay at all? Please read very carefully!

Gods do not exist except in the heads of those who create Gods inside their own heads.

If you do not understand, please ask questions. And do not ever dare assume you can be telling buda what buda can or can not do as if you are the God of buda. Your powers do not extend into buda's head! buda will pray to thin air if buda wants to.

I am sure HellVictorinho is capable of pointing out the flaws and errors of your thinking, already further increased in your answer above!

There was once a time when belief in God was akin to belief in one self..
I think what the religious book has been telling us is to belief in ourselves and be the best version of ourself we can possibly be.

It is this knowledge that we have failed to grasp and understand. Hence we always seek for a God or saviour outside of ourselves...as you might notice. Nigeria is what you get when the generality of the population have this mind set...

It was never about belief. It was always about Knowledge..@budaatum.

Dtruthspeaker:


I am sure HellVictorinho is capable of pointing out that flaw and errors of your thinking, already further increased in your answer above!

Really? This same HellVictorinho?

Are you sure he does not need your assistance, or do you just not want to offer it to him?

LordReed:
1. If a god exists, belief or lack thereof does nothing to change the situation.

2. If a god exists and is the source of all morality but yet you can adhere to the morality without belief then belief adds nothing to the equation.

Going by these to points above I am inclined to say belief in god is useless.

I could add more to this as time goes on but I'd be happy to hear your view.

HELL!

OP, HELL!

budaatum:


Really? This same HellVictorinho?

Are you sure he does not need your assistance, or do you just not want to offer it to him?

let him dance with you!

sonmvayina:
There was once a time when belief in God was akin to belief in one self..

I think what the religious book has been telling us is to belief in ourselves and be the best version of ourself we can possibly be.

It is this knowledge that we have failed to grasp and understand. Hence we always seek for a God or saviour outside of ourselves...as you might notice. Nigeria is what you get when the generality of the population have this mind set...

It was never about belief. It was always about Knowledge..@budaatum.

You are wise! God took mud and breathed into it to create human beings, but silly human beings go here and there looking for the God that dwells in the Kingdom that God built that is within them.

I guess if they knew that, they'd realise that [url=https://classic.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+25%3A40&version=KJV]inasmuch as they do unto each other whom they see, the God they see not would be pleased[/url]. But because they do not know this, they sound like brass, or a tinkling cymbal and have unlovable enemies!

budaatum:


Doubt? buda? Is your head okay at all? Please read very carefully!

Gods do not exist except in the heads of those who create Gods inside their own heads.

If you do not understand, please ask questions. And do not ever dare assume you can be telling buda what buda can or can not do as if you are the God of buda. Your powers do not extend into buda's head! buda will pray to thin air if buda wants to.

You said none of us has seen if God exists or where God exists.
It was part of your prayer to the same God.
If you don't think God exists outside heads,then why do you pray to God?
Is God in your head?
Asking if my head is okay is unnecessary.

budaatum:


Really? This same HellVictorinho?

Are you sure he does not need your assistance, or do you just not want to offer it to him?

This can't hurt me.

Dtruthspeaker:


let him dance with you!

Whatever.

HellVictorinho:


You said none of us has seen if God exists or where God exists.
It was part of your prayer to the same God.
If you don't think God exists outside heads,then why do you pray to God?
Is God in your head?
Asking if my head is okay is unnecessary.

I repeat!

Gods do not exist except in the heads of those who create Gods inside their own heads.

If buda then prays to Gods, to whom do you think buda prays?

1Sharon:


HELL!

OP, HELL!

Perhaps, the fear of eternal torture by God is the beginning of wisdom or the beginning of faith in God or whatever that means.

budaatum:


I repeat!

Gods do not exist except in the heads of those who create Gods inside their own heads.

If buda then prays to Gods, to whom do you think buda prays?

So,you pray to the Gods in your head.
Why did you create Gods in your head?

HellVictorinho:


So,you pray to the Gods in your head.
Why did you create Gods in your head?

Now you are getting there. I buda created Gods inside my own head after being an atheist for longer than you have lived in order to understand those who create Gods in their own heads so that I may be able to better know and love my fellow human beings.

Its like learning how humans have been programmed in order to better understand humans.

budaatum:


I repeat!

Gods do not exist except in the heads of those who create Gods inside their own heads.

If buda then prays to Gods, to whom do you think buda prays?

Since HellVictorinho stands back, i"ll say, your first flaw is that "God does not exist" is inconsistent for contradiction with "God is created inside their own heads*

For if he is created, then he exists, for creation brings into existence.

Thus, this is incoherent and unintelligible for It is The Law that "A Fact Cannot both be in Existence and in Non-existence at the Same Period of Time"!

Dtruthspeaker:


Since HellVictorinho stands back, i"ll say, your first flaw is that "God does not exist" is inconsistent for contradiction with "God is created inside their own heads*

This is incoherent and unintelligible for It is The Law that "A Fact Cannot both be in existence and in Non-existence at the Same Period of Time"!

Then I guess you have not yet engaged with the numerous contradictions you encounter in life.

A thought does not exist outside your head, for instance, but yet you are thinking thoughts inside your head. How?

budaatum:


Then I guess you have not yet engaged with the numerous contradictions you encounter in life.

A thought does not exist outside your head, for instance, but yet you are thinking thoughts inside your head. How?

Wrong thinking, Existence Always means it is Identifiable, Verifiable and Evidenced.

Thus, the reasonable question that arises is "Where is it? Is it in or out?" Not is it in existence?

Now, you do not have a problem of Existence but of "Location" and Place!