₦airaland Forum

Iamzik:
Well done for putting up a good defense.

Thanks, I'm impressed by your ability to remain objective while passionately maintaining an opposing stance.

The fact remains that the country has not seen the value of past investment in university education in terms of standard and innovation.

Absolutely. This is a point I flog to death on an almost daily basis. The blame for our failing educational system must be borne by government, students, parents...and ASUU! I have said (even on this site) before that the academics of this country have failed her.

Having said that, this is the dilemma in which we find ourselves as a country: we need the universities to function well to have any hope of national development. If the nation's academics have so far not performed, do we stop funding the universities? Mind you, by "not performed", we're talking about a grade of 50C, rather than 30F IMO (also IMO, nothing stops us academics from achieving 80A).

The solution can NEVER be to deny funding to the universities. The solution is to ensure proper funding AND ensure the universities deliver. They are not mutually exclusive.

Government does not have N825 billion to give at this time.

The truth is: neither you nor I know that for a fact.

If a whole generation of intellectuals cannot think outside the box but solely depend on being spoon fed by government then ASUU has two options : continue the strike or increase the school fees to N2m per annum like you suggested.

ASUU won't, as a matter of principle, push for fee hikes. I'm not saying I agree (or not). So that leaves them with just the one option I guess.

bigtt76:
No one is saying they should come up with schemes to raise money for the 'Government', what we are saying is come up with schemes to raise funds to take care of needs such as research work, training etc.

The primary way researchers come up with funds globally is from research grants. You're not gonna get research grants for low-quality work. The current state of funding makes it basically impossible to do top-class work. Do you see where I'm going with this? Besides, you're leaving out the elephant in the room: why should I crack my head on extra ways of getting funding when the students are paying a fraction of what it costs to educate them?

They don't go about asking government for those funds

They don't because the ones you mentioned are not government institutions. Also, I recommend you go check how much their students pay. Perhaps, then you will know one way they generate funds: students who pay for the value they get.

Edit: BTW, I just noticed you were talking about *research* here. Yep, government absolutely funds their research.

We too like 'government idle type of jobs' in this country that's why most became lecturers to earn that free idle cash. Have you seen or heard of a lecturer in a law department or medical doctor in the department of medicine that has no private practice or working in a hospital? Once you're a professional or qualified in a profession, nothing stops you from practicing but not so with our lecturers....they must be pampered

I have no idea what you talking about there, but the "pampered" part has me amused and slightly offended, if I apply it to myself. Me? Pampered? My dear (sorry if that comes off wrong), this job is one of the lowest-paying jobs a man of my intellect could have gone for back then. I walked away from much better options and took this job for one reason: because I consider it a calling. To call me pampered because I demand for my rights, or for the improvement of the system is to display ignorance of the issues at stake*.

*Note on my usage of "I" up there: I'm only partially in support of the strike action, and technically, not even on strike right now.

Iamzik:
Give us the breakdown of the supposed N2m per annum (10m per student for 5yr engineering). Even some private universities so not pay that much despite the fact that they do not receive government fund to run the school and pay salaries.

I don't need to do it for you. Go to any CSC, EEE, or MEE department in a federal university. Compute staff remuneration per year. Compute cost of equipment, facilities, energy. Compute how much it costs to manage hostels for students. Divide by the student population.

Are you denying wasteful spending, mismanagement and secrecy surrounding financial management of universities in Nigeria?

Wasteful spending, mismanagement: of course I'm not. Can you show me a SINGLE sector of Nigeria where the above don't apply?

As to the secrecy part, I have no idea what you're talking about. Isn't that part of the oversight functions of the NUC/Ministry to maintain accountability and probity?

All the grants that was relieved in the past where is the value.

I suppose this is a rhetorical question. Allowing for the usual issues of corruption (which bites EVERYWHERE in Nigeria, need I remind you?) if you open your eyes, you will see what previous government interventions were used for.

Government should find education adequately, YES but government and society must get accountability and value for money spent

Yes, government must get accountability. Who is arguing against that? Definitely not ASUU.


[Quote] BTW revenue generating agency remit to government coffers. Do universities remit any percentage of their IGR?[/quote]They do not. Should they? Please educate me on this.

.

bigtt76:
Sure but then there are a thousand and one scheme the ASUU people can use to raise funds other than school fees. They know it but are just too lazy to do anything.

Jeez. Everybody wants ASUU to come up with schemes to raise money. Are you sure you want me devoting only 5% of my time to educate the future leaders in my field just so I can generate ideas to raise money to subsidize ...arrrggg.

Lets keep it simple. I was employed to teach and conduct research, not come up with business plans to make it cheaper for you to get a world class education. Why should that be my job

Iamzik:
Students are paying through their nose already. Almost all these universities have consultancy services running part time programmes that pay double or triple the normal school fee.

What do they do with all that money if government is responsible for payment of salaries and maintenance of the school. This is beside education grants by international organizations, PTF and others.

Universities should account for the money they currently make before asking for over 800 billion

Lol.

Statements like yours point to the real problem: most students and parents have absolutely zero idea how much proper tertiary education actually costs. How can a man value something if he doesn't even know what it costs? People like you make so many references to the (usually) meager IGR of universities as if they are magic bullets, because you have no idea the enormity of the problem.

What if I told you that an engineering BSc for which the average federal university student pays around N40k pa actually costs something in the ballpark of N 2,000,000 pa? How many consultancy services will universities run to manage such a deficit if government does not step up its game And that begs the question: are universities commercial entities that are duty-bound to generate the deficits from IGR, or should students pay appropriately-hiked fees?

JaffyJoe:
Yeah I know that. My allusion was aimed at strategically placed professions of equal or nearly equal importance to state's social-economic growth. Transport, Agriculture etc.
Btw, I think the point of agitation isn't lack of fulfillment of the said agreements at all but that it has only been partly fulfilled right?

Equal importance: honestly, nope. It is no coincidence that NMA and ASUU so easily get at government's jugular. They're both at the top of the "food chain" for different reasons. Every single sector depends on the skilled manpower that tertiary educational institutions are supposed to provide. For doctors, the effect of their downing tools tends to hit at the very heart of our being well enough to function, and alive.

I don't really want to join issues with you about how serious government has been about the agreement; there's enough blame to go around, and I'm just tired of the whole country at this point.

kings09:
U know school fees will be one of those schemes n guess who protest most

No mind am. Does he think ASUU doesn't know easy ways to raise funds for universities? Hint: students, meet fees.

JaffyJoe:
Of course, they would. Just as patients would if hospitals are well equipped, commuters if our transport sector is modernized, farmers if given appropriate support. It is within every citizen's right to have access to quality life and resource. However, would it make sense for farmers to put a halt to food production nationwide just to make a case for themselves? Who suffers?

Many civil servants don't even make a quarter of what these people take home on monthly basis.

I'm sure you're familiar with the notion of a pyramid as it applies to ecosystems, no? Not all layers of such pyramids are of equal importance.

The stubborn demands of the custodians of a crucial sector for its improvement go beyond self-service. You cannot equate university lecturers and researchers to other civil servants. They play different roles in the pyramid of socio-economic development. Everybody should know this. Don't you?

Edit: BTW, full disclosure: I am one of "these people" o. Yep, I'm a lecturer ( runs for cover ).

henryhemon:
I went through all I wrote and didn't see where I said they do not have the right to fight for their pocket or are just pained about what I said that's true??

Why will anything you say pain me?

You said "ASUU is just fighting for their pockets". I know that statement to be false, so I addressed it by:
a. First reminding you that even if that were true, ASUU has every right to do it; and
b. Letting you know (if you didn't already know) that the statement was false, because ASUU is also fighting for the system (which the "just" in your statement doesn't acknowledge).

Hope I've clarified things for you now?

henryhemon:
ASUU has been demanding since I was born and they always claim it's for the good of our education,agreed our education is very poor but what have they been doing with all the demands that government has fulfilled. I'm not justifying why gov't should improve te education sector but I know ASUU is just fighting for their pockets.

ASUU members are definitely fighting for "their pockets", and they are well within their rights to do so.
In addition though, "they" are fighting for the Nigerian tertiary education system. Whether you believe it or not may be immaterial because they probably know more about this subject than you do.

JaffyJoe:
ASUU and Health worker have this insatiable urge for more and more all the time. The notion that they are making all these noise in the interest of the students is bullshit.

So you're saying students will not benefit from improved facilities?
psst: before you reply, consider the evidence accumulated over the last two decades or so.

alphasperm:
prof...one question...
r ur children schooling in Nigeria?

The honest-to-God truth? Yes, all my kids are schooling in Nigeria, and none of them passed (or are passing) through high-end secondary schools. Cos I can't afford it! Not that this has any direct bearing on the strike, but I see where you're going

tbliss22:
As far as I'm concerned ASUU as a body should let go for once this method of using strikes to communicate with FG because It's not really working.

If you tell me another method, I'll be sure to fight tooth,claw, talon against any future strike actions.

Yes, TETFund and rest must have been realized

You correctly identified one positive outcome of previous strike actions.

but do you care to know the future of Nigerian youth being blurred due to consistent delay while in school?

Many members of ASUU were once in that same category. Yes, we also suffered due to strike actions.

The incumbent president of ASUU can't tell me him and his board do not forsee avoidable doom this action will cost the academic sectors in general.

It is not the strike that will cause this doom. It is criminal underfunding of the educational system.

Finally, let ASUU know that we the Nigerian student have been cheated of time in the past and about to be cheated again.

They know already. As I said, many of us were similarly "cheated". But we also see the progress achieved through previous strike actions. Students are highly regrettable collateral damage (and before you go nuclear and accuse me of insensitivity, know that I have been in your shoes before).


Having said all that, I do not know yet if I support this current action...this is a situation in which every category of stakeholders is as guilty as the other.

wristbangle:
There are benefits aside the basic 400k being paid to senior lecturers/professors which includes sponsorship, allowances, bonuses, etc which I feel is enough...

I'm not here to argue on the subject of N400k being "enough" remuneration for decades of work educating the best minds in the country. Funny enough, I am not even arguing for (or against!) the strike action either. I'm just here to correct the notion of some imaginary benefits.

For the vast majority of lecturers, there are no such additional benefits. Some clinicians get some additional remuneration working as honorary consultants in teaching hospitals, but these are a tiny fraction of academic staff. Apart from this, there are only so-called earned allowances, non-payment of which is at the very heart of this industrial action.

Has ASUU strike yielded positive results? Yes.

Do you have another question?

BTW, no need to guess, I am an academic in a Nigerian university.

dienlmods:
The diabolical afonjas will not talk about their fetish and ritual and incesteous problems, but watch them start screaming ipob, while leaving their true nightmare

I will keep pointing out the tacit support I see nd'igbo giving the bigots among them.
As usual, an slowpoke among you has spoken, and there are over a hundred likes.
If you sow the winds, you will reap the whirlwinds. If you sow hate, you will get back with interest.

If there are Igbo elders on Nairaland, speak to your people.

GuyWise:
Waiting patiently for afonjas as usual to come and defend their masters up north even though their masters don't care if they are alive or dead.

While their obas eat watery beans in kuje, their children are busy online mastubating on every Biafran thread. grin grin These people are cursed.

To every Yoruba individual who read what those two imbeciles up there wrote and ignored them: I am proud of you. As at 1.30pm when I visited this thread, no single Yoruba person has descended into the mud pit. Please continue to take the high road. If you don't feed the trolls, they will realize their stupidity.

As I always say, all the Igbos I know are sensible people. The children of hate on this site are obviously low-lifers who are entitled to whatever makes them feel better about themselves.

NothingDoMe:
Can I tell you a secret? It's only on Nairaland.

Hmm. NothingDoMe. How many times I call you?

Don't say that o. There are some things that shouldn't be toyed with. I assure you that resentment minted online spills into real life 100%.
Please don't join others in playing the "game". Its consequences may become harshly real one day.

For a country with as many problems (read: opportunities), and as many brilliant minds as Nigeria, it saddens me to see what our youth waste their time and megabytes doing online. Please don't be one of them, regardless of the provocation.

NothingDoMe:
well done professor Femi. When your people are bashing IPOBS you will be clicking LIKE quietly. Now that the north has warned the SouthWest again and we are laughing at you, you now remembered want to discuss tribalism with Seun. Well done.

When you say I quietly click LIKE, I assume that merely reflects what you do i.e. support bigotry either openly or covertly. I do neither, and I believe my track record speaks for itself. I have challenged both Yoruba and Igbo bigots. If you have the time, feel free to check my post history.

It beats me the way some people think. It doesn't matter to me (or to any other intelligent person) the tribe of the occupant of Aso Rock. I speak for most Yorubas I know (as well as all the successful Igbos I know), so I wonder why you are laughing at us.

Billyonaire:
A professor that has no knowledge of Fallacy ad hominem.

Change your moniker, and ask me that question again.

Like it or not, we are all actors for posterity. I honestly have much better things to do on a Sunday afternoon than tangle with unfortunate individuals. I leave my few messages on this thread for Seun, and for posterity, which will ultimately judge us all.

Have a good day.

ps: Yes, this indeed means I will no longer respond to your posts, or to those of one idiot up there.

smartty68:
Indeed! You had to quote me bah

Shebi I look like Se.un Mister Solution

Now get off my mention dude

You're wailing now because Yorubas are affected. Fools

One day, you will choke on your own hatred. I do not know a single successful person that harbors such hatred, and yes, I know many ndi Igbo, In fact, my formative years were spent living peacefully with more progressive representatives of that proud tribe, not dregs such as yourself.

Billyonaire:
Painful truth bro, very painful truth.

Painful truth? What is your IQ?

Billyonaire:
Is it not time for the SW to get the message ?

Is it not time for the youths of SW to wake up and stop lying down to greet their politicians who allow the constitution to be suspended in exchange for coins while Osinbanjo is being ridiculed instead of being sworn in as the right president since Buhari is not healthy ?

Why do the SW find so much energy to wrestle the SE/SS instead of rising up like IPOB to raise their voice against the poverty in the SW with few politicians controlling all assets and making them lie down to greet them as 'elders'.

I will not mock the SW for these insults meted on them, because it is unfortunate.

We must make sure that no election holds until we talk. The North can have Nigeria and their Buhari if the Constitution has to be suspended.

The Entire South needs to unite and find a common ground to discuss with the North on how to disband this unitary system of government for a Restructured Confederal System.

SW should stop acting like slaves to the North, it is too embarrassing.

The openly-biased and illiterate bigots are actually easier to deal with than the members of the intelligentsia who themselves harbor equally strong bias, only revealed by occasional generalizations such as the above.

On what evidence you do base the conclusion that the South West act as slaves to the North?

Lets us try a little harder to be constructive sir.

smartty68:
Initial ultimatum was to the South-East Regions
Now, an indirect untimatum to the South-West Regions
Waiting for South-South Regions Ultimatum
Afonjas were shouting and jubilating that the quit notice was never their business.

Now the table has turned against them.

Norths are saying that Buhari must rule whether dead or alive. These guys are delusional

Seun

Nairaland is fast becoming the most dangerous breeding ground of tribalism and bigotry in Nigeria. You need to act now. Bigots are preventing sensible interactions (and thereby making visits to Nairaland less likely). More importantly however, God forbid that you and your site be held one day as accessories to genocide or hate crimes.

If you need ideas on how to tackle the issue, you can send me a message. I have one or two solutions for you.

deepwater:
you sit in your house and keep quoting your parents, oduduwa hall has nice green cushion seats, underneath the oduduwa hall is ODLT 1 and 2. So i can not be confused here. my dear stop mentioning me.

Correction:

ODLT 1 and 2 are underneath the Amphitheater, not Oduduwa hall.

Also, the Amphitheater was originally designed to be without any covering, just like the original Greco/Roman theaters. Most people don't realize how smart the roof is. It is designed to be obviously not part of the main structure, so the building still remains technically an amphitheater, but with a canopy over it. I have no idea where you got the story of padded seats from.

onyxo76:
I wish I could meet you one on one, its even I have met you without knowing on campus, why I chose to digress is because we have a lot issues at hand, not elujoba only. There was the issue of salami being "imposed' on the university, aside other things, I asked these questions earlier because in the nearest future I could be the director or head of my unit and would be involved in managing people, all answers to my comments remain most appreciated, still I would have loved to meet and discuss further.

Hello Onyxo76. Your idea is an intriguing one. People like you, who can disagree, debate, argue, and still remain civil are unfortunately the exception rather than the norm these days, and interacting with such people cannot but be a net-positive. On the other hand, I really like remaining anonymous for as long as I can. The anonymity of this profile allows me to comment freely on issues without being concerned about how people's perception of me will be affected (or how their perception affect how receptive they are to my inputs). Consequently, and with some regret, I will decline your request for now. I note that you are relatively active on Nairaland (I've seen your moniker enough times that I remember it; I wonder why I thought you were a woman!) and I am confident that we will get other opportunities to interact.

For now: all the best bro!

onyxo76:
1. Several petitions were written against omole then to efcc, they never got treated. Why?

What evidence do you have the the petitions were "never treated"?

2. Can you say for sure that omole's tenure was dovoid of any corrupt practises or were they just speculations?

Madam, at no point did I say Omole's tenure was devoid of corrupt practices. My stance is that till now, there is no compelling evidence of such. And until there is, the civilized thing to do is to cease slinging innuendos.

3. Bearing in mind the circumstances in which we found ourselves same time last year, with the over tensed, boiling point and almost explosive situation, if you were appointed the acting vc ,governing council dissolved, no dvcs, how would you have managed to douse the tension then?

This is obviously a complicated matter that I cannot fully explain here. A few things I would have done differently:

- OAU was boiling not just because the unions wanted money. More importantly, the unions believed that Omole and co had stolen so much money, and had so much siphoned away, but were unwilling to spend the stash on staff.

- Elujoba was a very popular figure with the unions. Such a person was in the best position to tell them the unpalatable truth: OAU was nowhere near as rich as they thought.

- In paying the N300k he had to rake money from all sorts of sources, including monies given to Grants and Agencies unit for specific purposes. Me I would *definitely* not have done that.

In a nutshell: the unions had been growing more belligerent over the years. Someone as unpopular as Omole could not rein them in, but Elujoba should have used the fact that they liked him so much to tell them the stark truth. He should have paid them ONLY whatever he was empowered to do. If that came out to be N5,000 per head, so be it. They would have hated that to hell, but they would not have gone nuclear on someone they had hailed as their hero just weeks before.

4. All the allowances being clamoured for, are actually meant for us or just our imaginations?

The agreement signed by the FG recognizes those allowances. Whether OAU can afford to pay them or not, I do not know. Based on what I know, I seriously doubt it, but then, all logical human beings must base their beliefs on evidence. I have no hard evidence either way.

onyxo76:
sorry for coming back to you prof,
- if salami truly became vc, would have been better off in oau?

- if the 300k you got last year was illegal, will you be willing to return it to the school coffers?

No need to be sorry for engaging me. But what do these hypotheticals have to do with the issue at hand (namely Prof. Elujoba's culpability or otherwise)?

OAUTemitayo:
I understand your point sir. Though there is no factual evidence to support your statement that Elujoba was part of those running the campaign of calumny against Salami (at least none overtly) NASU members were actually the one that dealth with Salami and his Omole cabal. Elujoba simply grabbed popcorn and watched​the mortal kombat

Yes, Elujoba partook in the mess.

I have been in meetings where Elujoba spoke and I was aghast. He so freely (and naively) made incendiary statements that the unions would obviously misinterpret. So, wittingly or not, he partook in the shameful smear campaign.

OAUTemitayo:
Sir, it's not character assassination that prevented Salami from being the substantive VC.
1. Fact was he associated clearly with Omole!
2. His candidacy was clearly supported by Omole and his cabal.
.3. Everybody knows the anticedents or Omole.
4. It's easier to associate with like minds
5. As a result, people concluded that Salami coming from Omole caucus would be a case of jumping from frying pan into HELLFIRE.
That was why NASU kicked against it.
And the whole process was skewed in his support.

Oh, you are not getting me. Personally, I was 100% against Salami's candidacy. And even for me, the support of the Omole administration was a big minus.

But you are not getting what I mean my character assasination. Many of the things that have been said and printed about Salami and Omole still cannot be substantiated, and yet, even intelligent people (sadly, including our dear Prof Elujoba!) bleated them on. That is character assassination. I hope it is clear that I am not a fan of either Salami or Omole. That notwithstanding, they are both individuals who have obviously put a lot of work into building their careers and reputations. They don't deserve to have their names dragged in mud (unless there is evidence, in which case, I will personally drive them to jail! )

onyxo76:
... if you know anyone in oau you can confirm this fact, everybody knows what omole did in his 5 year tenure...

I'm sure you can tell from my posts that not only am I in OAU, but I'm also relatively well-informed.

Friendly advise: run away from the phrase "everybody know...". For example, in my generation, everybody knows that Thunder Balogun (a famous footballer) once killed someone with a football. Infact, most members of my generation can tell you how he did it. Problem is, it never happened.

Case in point: you say everyone knows what Omole did. And yet, after having access to all the records for 1 year, and after so many task forces, isn't it queer that there is no convincing evidence? If there is, I want you to show me (I hope the White Paper from their reports is still online).

Nigerians like clinging to a theory even long after the facts stop supporting it!

I wonder why none of you will face me and rubbish my arguments.

Look, what is happening to Prof, Elujoba is sad. He is a good man. Unfortunately, he is also a naive man, and he let the unions railroad him into trouble.