₦airaland Forum

I see my post has been hidden even though it wasnt offensive....

@Mac,

I have seen this post elsewhere and good for McDonalds for settling the suit but you know this was coming. I dont want to eat Halal meat without knowing what i am eating. If I want to eat Halal meat, I know where to go get it. But I dont, and why then do buthers in UK supermarkets sell me Halal meat but do not label it as such. Why do school lunches use halal meat because of one or two muslim students in school.

Surely this is not a fair deal....Its like one law for you and the rest can push off somewhere

Lastly

- no man has ever ascended heaven in John 3:13; but I have already read that Elijah had ascended (2 Kings2:11) and so has Enoch (Genesis 5:24).

John 3:9-15 For context

9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him,“Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? 11 Truly, truly, I say to you,we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. 12 If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven:the Son of Man. 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

From the context I'm sure we can see that he was addressing the people there that He who ascended to heaven but was on earth was telling them earthly things and they refuse to believe. What would happen if He told them heavenly things? No one had ascended to heaven but He who was present with them the Son of Man..

Again there is no contracdiction here if you read the context.

No. 4 -Genesis 25:1 describes Keturah as Abraham’s WIFE; but 1 Chronicles says she is a CONCUBINE (or do ‘wife’ and ‘concubine’ mean the same thing?)

Gen 25:1-11 For context, we will not even use 1 Chr 1:31-33 here. Even in the same chapter, we see that the word concubine is used for the other wives (Hagar and Keturah) The concubines in this case refers to wives after Sarah, the first wife

Now Abraham took another wife, whose name was Keturah. 2 She bore to him Zimran and Jokshan and Medan and Midian and Ishbak and Shuah. 3 Jokshan became the father of Sheba and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim and Letushim and Leummim. 4 The sons of Midian were Ephah and Epher and Hanoch and Abida and Eldaah. All these were the sons of Keturah. 5 Now Abraham gave all that he had to Isaac; 6 but to the sons of his concubines, Abraham gave gifts while he was still living, and sent them away from his son Isaac eastward, to the land of the east.

(From this we know thatr Abraham had 2 concubines/wifes – Hagar and Keturah) You can see why in 1 Chr 1:33, Keturah was called a concubine because she was not the first wife Sarah...

Again, there is no contradiction.

No. 3 -in Exodus 33:20, God declares no man sees Him and live! But Moses saw him “face-to-face” (Exodus33:11) and did Aaron and seventy others (Exodus 24:10), not forgetting Jacob too (Genesis 32:30)

I ask you, did Moses, Aaron, the seventy elders and Jacob see God face to face?

Exodus 33:11
11 Thus the Lord used to speak to Moses face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend. When Moses returned to the camp, his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, would not depart from the tent.

Exodus 33:
17 The Lord said to Moses, “I will also do this thing of which you have spoken; for you have found favor in My sight and I have known you by name.” 18 Then Moses said, “I pray You, show me Your glory!” 19 And He said, “I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the Lord before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.” 20 But He said, “You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!” 21 Then the Lord said, “Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand there on the rock; 22 and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen.”

Exodus 24:9-10
9 Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10 and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11 Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and they ate and drank.

Again, I ask, did they see His face?

Lastly Gen 32:24

24 Then Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak. 25 When he saw that he had not prevailed against him, he touched the socket of his thigh; so the socket of Jacob’s thigh was dislocated while he wrestled with him. 26 Then he said, “Let me go, for the dawn is breaking.” But he said, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.” 27 So he said to him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Jacob.” 28 He said, “Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed.” 29 Then Jacob asked him and said, “Please tell me your name.” But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?” And he blessed him there. 30 So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, “I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved.” 31 Now the sun rose upon him just as he crossed over Penuel, and he was limping on his thigh. 32 Therefore, to this day the sons of Israel do not eat the sinew of the hip which is on the socket of the thigh, because he touched the socket of Jacob’s thigh in the sinew of the hip.

Again, here God wrestled with Jacob in the form of a man. Note the bible did not say Jacob wrestled with God until daybreak. I'm you know the situation is slightly different from Exodus 33. I'm sure you know Jacob could never have wrestled with the same appearance of God in Exodus 33.

No. 2 -it says: God is not a man that he should repent (Numb. 23:19); but in Exodus 32:14 it says God REPENTED!

I wish you read the context of Exodus 32:14, but I know you just want to score a cheap point

Numbers 23:19 NASB
“God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent;
Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

Exodus 32:14
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
So the LORD relented concerning the disaster He said He would bring on His people.

International Standard Version (©2012)
So the LORD changed his mind about the calamity he had said he would bring on his people.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

New American Standard Bible
So the Lord changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.

Again, here there is no contradiction

F00028: then congratulations! you just found another contradiction!

your bible says the earth has four corners. and yes it’s a figure of speech now but it wasn’t when the your bible was written.


hmmm….what about:

-the bible says God incited David to count Israel (2Samuel24:1) but in 1 Chronicles21:1 is says satan incited David.

-it says: God is not a man that he should repent (Numb. 23:19); but in Exodus 32:14 it says God REPENTED!

-in Exodus 33:20, God declares no man sees Him and live! But Moses saw him “face-to-face” (Exodus33:11) and did Aaron and seventy others (Exodus 24:10), not forgetting Jacob too (Genesis 32:30)

-Genesis 25:1 describes Keturah as Abraham’s WIFE; but 1 Chronicles says she is a CONCUBINE (or do ‘wife’ and ‘concubine’ mean the same thing?)

- no man has ever ascended heaven in John 3:13; but I have already read that Elijah had ascended (2 Kings2:11) and so has Enoch (Genesis 5:24).

@F00028, I will address your allegations one after the other
-the bible says God incited David to count Israel (2Samuel24:1) but in 1 Chronicles21:1 is says satan incited David.
Reply....
2 Sam 24:1-10 For context

Now again the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and it incited David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah.” 2 The king said to Joab the commander of the army who was with him, “Go about now through all the tribes of Israel, from Dan to Beersheba, and register the people, that I may know the number of the people.” 3 But Joab said to the king, “Now may the Lord your God add to the people a hundred times as many as they are, while the eyes of my lord the king still see; but why does my lord the king delight in this thing?”4 Nevertheless, the king’s word prevailed against Joab and against the commanders of the army. So Joab and the commanders of the army went out from the presence of the king to register the people of Israel. 5 They crossed the Jordan and camped in Aroer, on the right side of the city that is in the middle of the valley of Gad and toward Jazer. 6 Then they came to Gilead and to the land of Tahtim-hodshi, and they came to Dan-jaan and around to Sidon,7 and came to the fortress of Tyre and to all the cities of the Hivites and of the Canaanites, and they went out to the south of Judah, to Beersheba. 8 So when they had gone about through the whole land, they came to Jerusalem at the end of nine months and twenty days. 9 And Joab gave the number of the registration of the people to the king; and there were in Israel eight hundred thousand valiant men who drew the sword, and the men of Judah were five hundred thousand men.
10 Now David’s heart troubled him after he had numbered the people. So David said to the Lord, “I have sinned greatly in what I have done. But now, O Lord, please take away the iniquity of Your servant, for I have acted very foolishly.”

Was it God that told David to count the children of Israel?
1 Chronicles 21:1-13 For context

21 Then Satan stood up against Israel and moved David to number Israel. 2 So David said to Joab and to the princes of the people, “Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan, and bring me word that I may know their number.” 3 Joab said, “May the Lord add to His people a hundred times as many as they are! But, my lord the king, are they not all my lord’s servants? Why does my lord seek this thing? Why should he be a cause of guilt to Israel?”4 Nevertheless, the king’s word prevailed against Joab. Therefore, Joab departed and went throughout all Israel, and came to Jerusalem. 5 Joab gave the number of the census of all the people to David. And all Israel were 1,100,000 men who drew the sword; and Judah was 470,000 men who drew the sword. 6 But he did not number Levi and Benjamin among them, for the king’s command was abhorrent to Joab.
7 God was displeased with this thing, so He struck Israel. 8 David said to God, “I have sinned greatly, in that I have done this thing. But now, please take away the iniquity of Your servant, for I have done very foolishly.”
9 The Lord spoke to Gad, David’s seer, saying, 10 “Go and speak to David, saying, ‘Thus says the Lord, “I offer you three things; choose for yourself one of them, which I will do to you.”’”11 So Gad came to David and said to him, “Thus says the Lord, ‘Take for yourself 12 either three years of famine, or three months to be swept away before your foes, while the sword of your enemies overtakes you, or else three days of the sword of the Lord, even pestilence in the land, and the angel of the Lord destroying throughout all the territory of Israel.’ Now, therefore, consider what answer I shall return to Him who sent me.” 13 David said to Gad, “I am in great distress; please let me fall into the hand of the Lord, for His mercies are very great. But do not let me fall into the hand of man.”

Again please answer, was it God that told David to count the children of Israel?

I think Paul must have said some things that shook the core of Islam and other sects like Mormonism, reason why so much antagonism against him as an Apostle of God.


Colossians 2:18

18 Let no one defraud you by acting as an umpire and declaring you unworthy and disqualifying you for the prize, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions [he claims] he has seen, vainly puffed up by his sensuous notions and inflated by his unspiritual thoughts and fleshly conceit,

Galatians 1:8-9

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to and different from that which we preached to you, let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)!
9 As we said before, so I now say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel different from or contrary to that which you received [from us], let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)!

Madam Plappville, Praise God for this detailed explanation. According to the book of Revelation severally, the bible says he who has an ear let him hear what the spirit is saying...

We need pictures of Foko, Bere, Idi-Arere, Agbeni, Orita-Merin, Labo, Kudeti, Molete, Felele, Aperin, Orita-Mefa, Oke-Ado, Oke-Bola, Ogunpa...

Those were the days

@F00028, actually it was Apostle John that said to test every spirit in 1 John 4:1. But this is not scripture because according to you because they are not the words of Jesus.


1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.


1 John 4:2-3 NKJV

By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

Alexis, you know they cannot go against their prophet as he is their greatest moral example. That would be shirk

33:21 Ye have indeed in the Apostle of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.

For that reason alone, we know He is unique if He was made to be in the womb of a Jewish woman 2000 years ago.

He was simply made to be? Why was He simply made to be? How was He made to be? Was His making prophesied like you claim the coming of Mohammed was prophesied but still havent shown? It's only fair that if an usual occurrence like his making was going to happen that he was prophesied...Mohammed's birth was not miraculous and you claim he was prophesied, Jesus Christ birth and coming to be was miraculous, its only logical that His coming to be was prophesied. There are prophecies concerning Christ (His coming to be like you said). In those prophecies, he was called Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

What qualifies him as a prophet? I'm still waiting for the prophecies you wanted to point me to...

Yes F00028, there are prophecies but NONE of the prophecies point to the coming of Mohammed. I know the prophecies you point out before you even begin to reply but for the sake of argument, try me with the prophecies of Mohammed.

As an aside to what we were discussing

@F00028, I think you are just trying to be smart here. I wish you would scrutinise Islam the same way you analyse whether Jesus Christ is the Son of God or not

F00028: then what's so special about Jesus? if its because he had no earthly father? Adam had no father or mother!

Jesus at least had a mother so creating him was only half the trouble. Adam is a greater miracle.

besides, the man calls himself "son of man" about seventy times.

"this day have I begotten thee"- if it refers to Jesus not David as you claim, that about 500 years after Moses. was it then that Jesus was begotten?

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.." - are these the words of Jesus?

maybe you can tell me clearly what exactly does "son of God" mean

Adam and Eve had no father ot mother but both the Bible and the Quran established that Adam and Eve were created from the dust or from clay. I know you believe that because the Quran says so...

You also acknowledge that Jesus had no earthly father because the Quran agrees with the bible. The question is, was Jesus Christ created or did He exist before creation?

Skak & Tintingz, you have seen Jesus' words that He said He is the Son of God but you do not agree with it....You have quietly ignored John 1:12 that says 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

So you acknowledge that God is our Father and not our master (because we believe in Him), He gave us right to be sons/children. I see you quoted 1 John 3:1 but if you go to verse 2 it says 2 Beloved, now we are children of God[/colo[/b]r]; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is

Did you see that? [b]Now we are children of God [color=#990000]after believing in Him. We are justified/declared righteous by believing in Him (my emphasis)

Verse 8 says, 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

From the logic/analysis, Abraham too was made the son of God because he believed in God and was declared justified/righteous (Gen 15:6, Romans 4:3, Romans 4:9, Romans 4:22, Galatians 3:6, James 2:23 and Psalm 106:31)

Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was there from the beginning that is why He said in John 17:1-5

17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

And that is the difference, we are children of God and not slaves of Allah. As children we can approach Him anytime. Is Allah as approachable as God?

@F00028 the last time i checked. Jacob, Israel, David and even myself are sons of God because we believe in God of Abraham Isaac and David and Jacob/Israel. This is what John 1:12 says and i quote 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

So there is no contradiction here. If you do the same you too will be called son of God

But Psalm 2:7 you referred to is actually referring to Jesus Christ because Jesus Christ is the only Begotten Son of God 7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.This is also confirmed in John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, [b]the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,[/b]) full of grace and truth.

@Tintingz actually he did call Himself the Son of God....

I quote John 10 from verse 31 for you and these are Jesus' words by the way

30 I and My Father are one.”

Renewed Efforts to Stone Jesus

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”

33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?[c] 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe[d] that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” 39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.

@F00028, according to your quote

Muslims believe in the exact revelation God gave Jesus not the gospel according to mark or john. if they are the words of Jesus, they are scripture.

Like i mentioned in a thread on this board, if one is patient enough on this board, you guys will hang yourselves with your contradictions. From your post, you said muslims believe in the words of Jesus, do you believe these words of Jesus? If you do not believe according to Mark or John, why do you believe according to Luke?

John 10:36-38 NKJV

do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’? If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”

It was Mohammed(sa) that cleared the false allegetion on Jesus(as) and Mary(as) for being a fraud, bastard and a whor'e...Mohammed made it known to us that Jesus is from God and jews messiah which the jews themselvs reject

@Tintingz If all Jews rejected Him we would not have Christianity like Plappville mentioned. But you see how you keep digging a hole for yourself that you cannot get out of. If one is patient on this board, you guys will eventually say something that will trap you.

If Jesus is from God like your prophet said. why is He always called Jesus son of Mary or Isa bin Miriam. All the men addressed in Arabic are called bin of their fathers. Just because Islam has an issue with Jesus Christ being the Son of the Living God, and cannot deal with it He is called Jesus Son of Mary.

It comes down to 1 John 2:22

@Tintingz, fa fa foul,

1. How can they become Arabians when Arabians existed when they were at Zamzam? You should explain that.
2. Secondly you did not answer my question, when was Ishmael sacrificed? Is it when he was still being suckled by Hagar or when he was already married? Please answer.
3. In the middle east and everywhere else for that matter, lineage is traced through the father and not the mother. Ishmael's father was Aramean and not Arab. Ishmael could not have been Arab. From your hadith we know he learnt Arabic at the age of 14. Please explain.


I have more questions for you but answer these first. You can open another thread so we do not derail this one.

tintingz: Lol...posting from someone who doesnt even given any reference from the bible falsehood they say...

Another problem the orienlentist has difficulty understanding is why is Mary(r) called the sister of Aaron and not the Daughter of Aaron and they claim that "In those days people were only named as sons or daughters (never brothers or sisters, incidentally) of people from whomthey directly descended" but according to the Bible God(s) says to Moses :
~"I shall raise them up a Prophet from amongst their brethren"~(meaning brothers)
{Deuteronomy 18:18}
Now according to Christian theologians this prophecy is referring to Jesus , "Their" refers tothe Judaic tribe and "brethren" refers to the generations to come, so if this prophecy is in concordance with Jesus then Jesus is the "Brethren of Judah" in Biblical terms
So why does it say that this prophet is to come from amongst their Brethren/brothers and why not from amongst their sons? Shouldn’t it say, "I will raise them a prophet from amongst their sons"?

@Tintingz, I will let the others continue with the other discussions. We can actually prove that Mohammed was not a descendant of Ishmael and could not have been the one to be sacrificed. Firstly, Ishmael was not the first Arab. Abraham his father was not Arab but Aramean and his mother Hagar was Egyptian. Aramean + Egyptian = Arab? From Sahih Bukhari Volume 4 Book 55 Number 583, we noticed your prophet saying they (mother and son were driven out when she was still suckling him (meaning he was an infant) and remained where they were till the angel dug a well for them.

And that he learnt to speak Arabic from the Juhrum tribesmen that came to dwell with them and allegedly spoke perfectly when he was 14 years old and he married one of their daughters when he reached puberty. Abraham came back when Ishmael was married but Ishmael had gone out. He gave his wife a message. Ishmael divorced the first wife according to Abraham's message. He married a second one and Abraham came back (still did not meet him). Abraham came three times before finding him sharpening arrows under a tree and they apparently built the Kaaba.

This tells us he was not the first Arab as there were Arab people of the Juhrum tribe. He married one of their daughters, meaning all descendants from him were not Arab!

Then linking Surah 37:102, the question is when would Abraham have attempted to sacrifice Ishmael in all of this? According to someone else on this thread, no websites just Quran and hadith answers please..

Asad : And [one day,] when [the child] had become old enough to share in his [father's] endeavours 39 the latter said: "O my dear son! I have seen in a dream that I should sacrifice thee: consider, then, what would be thy view!" [Ishmael] answered: "O my father! Do as thou art bidden: thou wilt find me, if God so wills, among those who are patient in adversity!"
Malik : When he reached the age to work with him, Ibrahim said to him: "O my son! I have seen a vision that I should offer you as a sacrifice, now tell me what is your view." He replied: "O my father! Do as you are commanded: you will find me, if Allah so wills, of the patient."
Pickthall : And when (his son) was old enough to walk with him, (Abraham) said: O my dear son, I have seen in a dream that I must sacrifice thee. So look, what thinkest thou? He said: O my father! Do that which thou art commanded. Allah willing, thou shalt find me of the steadfast.
Yusuf Ali : Then when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! do as thou art commanded: thou will find me if Allah so wills one practicing Patience and Constancy!" 4098 4099

Hey Siena, sorry to hijack. Would you be willing to sort out for me a low compression (1 cylinder) on a 1.4 Audi A2? I'm thinking swapping the engine will be quicker.

Many Thanks..

The Imams and the worshippers did obviously not read the prophet's letter to the monks of St. Catherine Monastery

Muslims Demolish Church Building in Egypt

(AINA) -- Hundreds of Muslims came out of mosques today with hammers and destroyed a social services building belonging to the Coptic Church while chanting Islamic slogans. Security forces arrived after the building was completely razed. The 100 square meters social services building in the village of Fanous, Tamia district in Fayoum province, 130 KM south west of Cairo, had all the necessary government permits; it had a reception hall on the first floor and a kindergarten on the second.

But the Muslims insisted that it would become a church.

A meeting had taken place beforehand between the village mayor and elders from Muslim and Coptic sides and it was agreed that only the first floor was to remain and the second be demolished.

Mosques in surrounding villages called on their microphones this afternoon on Muslims to go and help their Muslim brethrens in the village of Fanous, because Christians were "building a church." According to rights activist Nader Shukry of Maspero Coptic Youth Organizations, nearly 5000 Muslims took part in demolishing the church property with their hammers, while shouting "Allahu Akbar." He said no one was arrested, not even the imams who called on Muslims to demolish the building; their calls fall under the crime of "enticement to violence."

The district of Tamia and neighboring Senousen is home to a large congregation of Islamists. Shoukry said that the Coptic Church had previously warned the security authorities of the danger of the Islamists provoking sedition in Tamia and neighboring areas.

A witness from Fanous village said they were working on the building site, which had started two months ago, removing the wood which was intended for the second floor when a Muslim man started insulting the Copts, then they were assaulted by the village women. The mob of Muslim men followed with their attack saying that the whole building has to be demolished. He said that the Muslim elders pretended to be peacemakers, but to no avail. "The Muslims with their hammers and spare pipes were demolishing also the walls of the ground floor, leaving nothing standing," said the witness. The village mayor and Muslim elders made excuses for not honoring their agreement of leaving the ground floor intact by saying the "youth take unreasonable actions."

Security authorities arrived after the social services building was demolished.

Some village Copts together with priests from St. George's Church went to the police station to have a report with the incident issued. No Muslim was arrested.

"Although we recognized the village youth who participated in the demolition work we could not name any of them," said a Christian resident, "as we are a minority in the village and we do not want to have problems because we fear for the safety of our children. We go away to work in Cairo leaving our families behind in the village. I believe that as Copts, we are destined to be always persecuted."

According to Shukry, the Copts are staying indoors, afraid to get into any confrontation which might lead to other attacks on their homes and businesses. "This incident will end like all other similar incidents, no one will be arrested and the building will never be rebuilt." He believes that the Copts should stand firm and insist on rebuilding this demolished services building, "otherwise it will be a green light to repeat this incident in the neighboring villages."

In 2007 in the village of Roda in Tamia Muslims demolished the fence of the Protestant church, security initiated a "reconciliation" meeting. The governorate promised to rebuild the fence at its own expenses, and the perpetrators were released. The fence has still not been built.

By Mary Abdelmassih

http://www.aina.org/news/20130115185246.htm

Mac, you're the one who said to go to the tafsir and the tafsir said its ok to beat your wife. Perhaps you want to enlighten one of your greatest scholars on what the verse is supposed to say. If a rightly guided muslim chooses to beat his wife or not, that is up to him. What is clear is that some do and some dont. The ones that do have a verse to justify it....

maclatunji: ^Very funny and what does "strike" actually mean there? If you say you know the Qur'an, you must also know the tafsir. What does the tafsir say about this?

You guys would do well to stop dashing to antiIslamic websites.

@Mac, this is what the tafsir of Ibn Kathir said

﴿الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَآءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ وَبِمَآ أَنفَقُواْ مِنْ أَمْوَلِهِمْ فَالصَّـلِحَـتُ قَـنِتَـتٌ حَـفِظَـتٌ لِّلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللَّهُ وَاللَّـتِى تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِى الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلاَ تَبْغُواْ عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلاً إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيّاً كَبِيراً

(34. Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are Qanitat, and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard. As to those women on whose part you see ill conduct, admonish them, and abandon them in their beds, and beat them, but if they return to obedience, do not seek a means against them. Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.) Allah said,

﴿الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَآءِ﴾

(Men are the protectors and maintainers of women,) meaning, the man is responsible for the woman, and he is her maintainer, caretaker and leader who disciplines her if she deviates.

﴿بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ﴾

(because Allah has made one of them to excel the other,) meaning, because men excel over women and are better than them for certain tasks. This is why prophethood was exclusive of men, as well as other important positions of leadership. The Prophet said,

«لَنْ يُفْلِحَ قَوْمٌ وَلَّوْا أَمْرَهُمُ امْرَأَة»

(People who appoint a woman to be their leader, will never achieve success.) Al-Bukhari recorded this Hadith. Such is the case with appointing women as judges or on other positions of leadership.

﴿وَبِمَآ أَنفَقُواْ مِنْ أَمْوَلِهِمْ﴾

(and because they spend from their means.) meaning the dowry, expenditures and various expenses that Allah ordained in His Book and the Sunnah of His Messenger for men to spend on women. For these reasons it is suitable that he is appointed her maintainer, just as Allah said,

﴿وَلِلرِّجَالِ عَلَيْهِنَّ دَرَجَةٌ﴾

(But men have a degree (of responsibility) over them).
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=674&Itemid=59#2

Logicboy, i am a Christian in every sense of the word. As much I have lots of issues with Islam, I believe one should treat fellow human beings with respect no matter what ideology they subscribe to.

I enjoyed Abdulsleek and even I fell for it. It brought out some hidden spots from some of our brothers which we would not normally see (that was real smart of you)

12.6mpg is pretty bad for that engine size. You have to get it looked at to see why the consumption is so high. My Xedos 9 Supercharged averaged 24mpg and is way more powerful than the 2.5l of the Nissan.

I dont like the feel of this. I feel we have another Abdulsleek on our hands here

Munich to Copenhagen for the weekend...983km
Munich to Bradford for the weekend ...1472km
Munich to Leipzig to Fürth to Munich in one day 1006km

A lot of these trips were flat out on the Autobahns....

Wow, Cotonou to Niger Republic would be an adventure. Would love to take such a trip in Africa....

@ParisLove, very true. Abdulsleek brought out some hidden talents with his posts. In one of my replies to him, perhaps you could see me calling him out on his double-speak...

@Mr Striklymii, this is another one from today, not suicide bombing but close.

YOLA, Nigeria (AP) -- Witnesses and authorities say at least four people were killed when gunmen suspected of belonging to a radical Islamist sect attacked a town in northeast Nigeria.
The attack happened early Thursday in the town of Song in Adamawa state. Adamawa state police spokesman Mohammed Ibrahim said the gunmen shot dead two civilians, a soldier and a police officer.

The assault in the rural area comes amid growing evidence that the radical sect known as Boko Haram is increasingly aiming at targets outside urban centers in Nigeria's northeast. Cities across Nigeria's predominantly Muslim north have been flooded with security forces who have been unsuccessfully trying to stop the sect's attacks.

Boko Haram is blamed for killing at least 792 people last year alone in Nigeria, according to an Associated Press count.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AF_NIGERIA_VIOLENCE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-01-03-12-29-32