₦airaland Forum

BKayy:
Prove it with any source before 1970 or any physical link

The truest physical link is the Bonny palace itself. They should tell you if they are ibani- ijaws or not.

9Pluto:
Ndoki is called Ndoki by themselves, Ukwa by other igbos

Ngwa people call Bende/umuahia people umuogbo, while Bende people call themselves Bende,ohuhu,Alai, Item etc

I hope you get the point now.

If anything I am just learning now that it was even Igbo people that call or own the name Ibani.

Bonny was the british pronounciation of Ebane/Ibane.

BKayy:
Was Ijaw mentioned there?
Take Nri for example. Other Igbo people call her "Nshi", even her closest neighbour Western Igboland do so while she calls herself Nri, but does that stop Nri from being Igbo?

Okoloma is still Ndoki-Igbo.
Which part of this or all the sources listed on this thread has mentioned Ijaw?

Any one?
Your guess is as good as mine.

Same logic applied to Ibani. Ibani are called Ibani by themselves. And Ibani are a subgroup of ijaws.

Igboid:
That will make for a very good research topic.
The person can use Biseni and Bonny/Opobo in comparative analysis.

Bonny/Opobo would make for a wrong case study for any comparative analysis. The palace of Bonny and Opobo being the primary source has already been settled. I expect you take the next bus to Bonny palace for more clarification. Otherwise, your arguments on Nairaland is just a mere academic exercise.

BKayy:
According to Ajayi Crowther, both "Ibani" and "Ubani" are Igbo words.

Any how you put it, Ijaw doesn't have a foothold.

*Bonny is called Okoloama BY THEMSELVES.

*Okoloba, Obani BY THE IBOS.


Which part is difficult for you to understand?

Igboid:
I think you are playing dumb now, having lost the argument.
Next time, don't let your Igbophobia get the better of you, people have been noted to take rat poison as a result of Igbo hate.
Always verify your sources to make sure they support your argument and not your opponent argument before rushing to post them and then get stuck in a hole that you will always deep further the more you try to wriggle your way out like you are currently doing.

Having dropped your Alabo moniker after you were bursed, your lack of intelligence has made you drive this particular moniker into an intellectual cul-de-sac. You have reached a dead end, and I am sure you know it.

I expect you to now rest this moniker and log on into your other monikers an try again.

Let's hope that that time around you show intelligence. Because so far, you have been a disappointment. You only ended up complicating issues for JANK23H, who I thought despite having all evidence against him, have been putting up a fairly good fight.

I won't stoop so low to attack individual, I rather attack the topic instead. And also attack your inconsistencies and false narratives. I am now xyz moniker when it suits you.

Back to the issue;

*The question is why do you ignore the concluding paragraph?..

*Why were ibos forced by circumstances to adapt to the life of the sea?

* Why were they called ibo interior?

* When ibos were told to have SETTLED. Would you compare a Settler in a place to a founder of a place?.

Use your brain.

OfoIgbo:
.

Joker, I should throw away lists of citations of older documents that corroborate obvious proofs. Weren't you taught the importance of citations in school?
For instance, should I throw away a book of 2021 that supports its works with a body of proofs or citations from the 15th or 16th century?

Igboid:
"The Ibani who came from Ibo interior and settled in Bonny over 300 years ago".

This man has scored an own goal. Even JANK23H must be dying in shame wherever he is .
JANK23H, it's like your Yoruba friend is out here to bury you in the guise of helping you, because of this remark you made years ago against Yorubas?

Yorubas can be very strategic and they never forget.

Ndo, my Asawana neighbor. Next time don't invite Yorubas to your war. They don't fight for no one but themselves.

I doubt you can put an average ibo and intelligence in the same sentence. To begin with, are you a graduate?. Were you taught in school to read a paragraph in isolation?

You chose the first paragraph in isolation while dismissing the concluding paragraph, who does that?.. How can you selectively isolate the first sentence if your mind is not already shallow.

The writer focuses on the ibos inhabitant /descent of Bonny who had come from the interior to settle. "
Going further, he revealed how they had struggled to adapt to their new environment which was unnatural to them.

Aside the fact that Ibani is not dialectical to ibos.

9Pluto:
Guys our dear friend Putindbut here just scored an own goal confirming what we already know from John Adams. You guys should take a look at his screenshot. It is obvious some of these guys have comprehension problems.

John Adams here explicitly spelt out who the Ibanis were without mincing words.

Please @Putindbut, kindly tell us the name of this book and when it was published.

cc
Slayerforever
Bkayy
Ekealterego
Igboid
Ofoigbo
Eastlink
Vintagepipes

I knew you would fall into your own trap. I can't help you if comprehension is hard on you. John Adams was talking about the process of adaptation of ibos to their new environment.

Igboid:
So which of the works called Bonny Indigenes Ijaw, Izon or Jos people?
Upload the snippets, it can't be that hard.

Ibani are a subgroup of ijaws. It was the whites who changed ibani to Bonny. The Europeans altered ibani to Bonny.
Barbot's " bany" was the closet alteration of ibani.

Igboid:
are you okay? You didn't do comprehension in your primary and secondary School English class?

"The King of New Calabar, in the neighborhood, and king Pepple of Bonny, were both of Eboe descent,of which also are the mass of the NATIVES;"


The slaves are not natives and were spoken of in the next sentence.

"....and the number of slaves from the Eboe country,which throughout the British trade was taken from Bonny, amounted perhaps to 3/4 of the exports"

I asked you to think, be more logical,
Interrogate, don't be a robot.

How on earth can the king of Kalabari kingdom be ibo?. There's Kalabari settlements and Kalabari beach in Imo state?. Yet doesn't link Kalabari and ibos with any shared ancestry.

Finally, you agreed that ibos supplied the highest number of slaves from Bonny port.

Alabo7978:
you're looking for old snippet but I showed you crowther's report and pepple and Dr koeller. which are way older than 1906, you rejected, Putind.butt brought this one, now you're looking for older one.
why are you a chameleon?

the igbos never owned affinity with water,
you all said it, that the reason why they hated the water was the disease that comes with it, mosquitoes etc.
y'all said it.
the IBOS are farmers who cultivate Yams etc now you all want to claim river folks all of a sudden?
since when.[b

Ayiba!

I wonder where ibos put their thinking cap. Do we need oyinbo to come tell us the natural occupation of ibos?.


From the screenshot below, John Adams, referred to ibos as people from the interior (ibo interior) who came to settle in Bonny. In addition, he said, they were obliged by the force of circumstances to adapt to the water and trade instead of hunting and farming. Which means the only way ibos could have survived in Bonny was to force themselves to adapt to the water and trade instead of farming and hunting they were naturally inclined to from the interior they came from.

cc JANK23H

Ekealterego:
That's not true. I personally have uploaded.

Barbot (1699)

Captain John Adams 1823 (Earlier than Crow)

Oldfield and Laird (1841)

Schön and Crowther (1841)

Lander (1841)

Sigmund Kölle (1850)

Horton (1865)

Johnston (1886-

Clarke (1841)

W. N. Thomas 1873

Igboid, Ofoigbo, Bkayy, slayerforever have uploaded multiple self.

You guys celebrate Crow's work the most for obvious reasons.
What you uploaded on Barbot is incomplete, a one-sided screenshot.

yorubademon24:
lolz, wtf is this? it was actually written by two Ijaw men their names were clearly stated there.

Can you read at all?

Igboid:
Both Crow and Baike agree that king Pepple was of Igbo origin.
They both agree that the NATIVE Bonny people are predominantly of Igbo origin.

Emphasis on NATIVE!

Emphasis on SLAVES.
Emphasis on those originally making salts from the sea, which was never an ibo occupation.
Moreso, interrogate the 'king of new calabar' being of ibo descent.. think.

JANK23H:
They'd always discredit it so long as it isn't Crow's account.

I have some literature from the Dutch,French and Portuguese and would unleash at the appropriate time.

I've been trying to download "A Voyage to New Calabar River in the Year 1699" by James Barbot 1699.I only have access to snippets.That has some key information.

The earlier explorers were the Portuguese and then the Dutch, as the British were the last arrivals. Fair enough, the British missionaries who came along were a bit more comprehensive than Hugh Crow. The missionaries's account (through interactions, socializing and longer periods of mission assignments) from Baikie, Clarke & Crowther with corroborating testimony from the royal palace, were specific about the Ibani host and their ibo settlers.

Captain Crow was only a slave merchant who deals in slave trading vessels and human cargoes much of whom were ibos. Thereby, his interrogation with majority of ibos slaves on board informed much of his accounts.

JANK23H:
I have alluded to this on several occasions.

When the lazy British came,rather than do a thorough investigation coupled with bias,the likes of Crow described Bonny as an Igbo town.

Of course,if he approached a slave and asked his origin, he would have been told him Igbo.

Therein lies my grouse.Igbos initially dismissed the presence of Ijo in Bonny,until earlier accounts were produced.

The screenshot was just a snippet but a more interesting focus on the phonology and orthography of the Ibani dialect.
Rodger Blench enriches his work with older documentations, citations and a more careful examination of ibani dialect. I posted the pdf to rationalize Baikie's counting system in ibani.

Having established that the ancient kingdom is founded by ibani-ijos, the palace language is ibani and the titles is Amanayabo. The local politics is also controlled by the ibani-ijos.
I knew ibos would be quick to dismiss it but neglecting the import of it. That's why their energies is more focused on winning an academic argument and downplaying earlier records and current realities of Bonny.

The funniest part is ibos denying being "settled" slaves in Bonny. Who supplied the highest number of human slaves than the ibos?

During the slave trade in the 19th century, there was a heavy presence of Igbo slaves from the Igbo hinterland.
Further injection of Igbo people, culture and language came after the slave trade was abolished and all the captured slaves brought recently from Igbo land to Opobo and Bonny to be sold couldn't be sold off again, then the Igbo slaves SETTLED then there AMONG the Ijaw natives. The proportion of the Igbo people to the Ijaw was highly significant in both areas that Igbo language became the common spoken language. In addition, the Igbo language was spoken as a second language by all the minorities living along the Niger Delta and was used as a common means of communication with the Igbo people from the hinterlands.
After the Igbo slaves settled there, it was noted that the natives refused to teach their language to the Igbo people and outsiders but rather they reserved it as a secret language instead. This factor led to the heavy decline in the usage of Ibani in Bonny, the total death of the Language in the Opobo area and the pervasive usage of Igbo language in both areas. When the christian missionaries landed in Bonny, note that the natives did not present Ibani to the missionaries but they presented Igbo as their language instead.
This history is clearly captured in the work of Roger Blench of which a snapshot image of his pdf book is shown below. The full PDF material can also be downloaded here: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEwQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rogerblench.info%2FLanguage%2FNiger-Congo%2FIjoid%2FIbani%2FIbani-English%2520dictionary.pdf&ei=9a12UZqsGISMO8SqgMAD&usg=AFQjCNFwak52P0FClDB2M4XeYRy4X0Vseg&sig2=xjJrI-zJS26YVTz8QNqe9Q



cc: JANK23H Alabo7978


Modified: Ibos on this thread are only fighting a lost battle. Give it up already.

Igboid:
Someone who couldn't speak laid down foundation of Igbo language.
No be juju be that?

You speak from a position of inferiority complex.
Crowther life work was translation and production of his native Yoruba language.
Why can't you be happy and contented with that?

Why do you have the insatiable need to claim that a man who couldn't speak Igbo language laid down the foundation of Modern Igbo language?
Are you okay at all?

I saw you and your ilks pasting several documents from earlier centuries. Have you ever thought about how the Europeans who couldn't understand a word of your language were able to write your history despite your ancestors unable to read and write.
Don't be slow.
Language is hardly a barrier to a linguist . One of such renowned linguist of his time was Crowther.

Igboid:
Crowther was an [b][/b]administrative figure head as far as gospel in Igboland was concerned.
He couldn't interact with Igbo natives, he spoke no Igbo, the small Igbo he tried to learn in Sierra Leone from the slaves there ended up being Useless when he got to Igboland as he found out he couldn't use it to interact with real Igbos on ground.

So yeah, he was a mere figure head. An administrative dinosaur, as far as gospel of CMS is concerned in Igboland.

Simon and Taylor did the real work and [b]reported to him as their oga.

It's madness and foolishness to suggest that Crowther wrote Igbo Bible or brought the gospel to Igboland.

Quite the stupidity.

Very obvious you are talking from a place of pain, throwing tantrums like a typical loser.

That book you called "useless" was the beginning of formal Education in iboland. Other works that came after improved on it with a more general dialect among the locals. Knowledge is never static, books are revised.

Crowther, with his works, laid every blocks of foundation from Education to Christianity, not only in iboland but the old Eastern region.

Like I said, history predates you, centuries before you were formed in your mother's womb, history had been made that a certain Bishop Ajayi Crowther gave you a reason to be proud of your tribe.

"Administrative figurehead"...Lol. There's always something up the sleeves of ibos to flip their self esteem just for the charade.

1Sharon:
An agent of colonization

I don't think it would be fair to refer to a victim of slavery as an agent of colonization. Africa herself was a victim while there was too little we could do.

Igboid:
And nope.
Bishop Ajayi crowther was never an Igbo speaker.
I'm yet to see any journal to suggest that Crowther could speak Igbo.

It was Simon Jonas who interpreted everything in Igbo to Obi Ossai of Aboh.
Ajayi crowther was a mere figure head in CMS gospel to Igboland.
You could easily have replaced him with someone from Kuvikiland and there wouldn't be a difference, because he never spoke the native Igbo language, and like the white missionaries, depended on Igbo slaves of Sierra Leone origin for interpretation of Igbo and all ground works involved in bringing gospel to Igbo speaking people.

It's madness and foolishness to suggest that Crowther produced written Igbo language.
He was a mere supervisor appointed by the church.

Taylor and Simon both of who were Igbo slaves of Sierra Leone origin brought the gospel to Igboland. Not one non Igbo speaking Crowther.

LOL. "Crowther was a mere figure head in CMS gospel to igboland"?

If you give an ibo man a pen, he would change a straight line to a curve. Why are you so much darkhearted to the extent that you belabour yourself way too to erase any external imprints on the ibo race.
I can imagine how hurtful it is that your "imaginary enemy" can't have an influence on ibo history.
Quite unfortunately for you, history predates you and there's absolutely nothing you can do to erase the past. Time and events was kind and gracious to Crowther to have played a major role in the history of ibo nation.

Calling the first African Bishop a mere figure head shows you're diametrically opposed to reasoning.
At the time Crowther was ordained a Bishop, there was no African missionary that wasn't under the leadership of Crowther. There was no expedition or mission assignment under CMS that were done without his approval, although he himself was answerable to the highest body of authority.

Taylor was far more learned and a junior missionary than Simons who was an house boy to Crowther. Simon served Crowther as an house boy in Sierra Leone. In my earlier comment, I stated that Crowther worked with missionaries of ibo descent on his expedition to Eastern region. To achieve a measure of success, Crowther worked closely with natives of different places of destination as he laid the foundation of Christianity from Onitsha, Bonny, Abeokuta to Lokoja.

Ekealterego:
Technically, J C Taylor came with him. J C Taylor was mostly sponsored by Igbos in Sierra Leone.
He preached too when he came, so yes first preacher but J C Taylor established the first church. J. C Taylor was a contemporary and not under Crowther.

Either way, they both did great. It is however a shame that they later had a strained relationship

You are missing the fact that Crowther was the first ordained African Bishop. While Taylor, a more junior colleague was trained and served under the leadership of Crowther, Crowther as well worked under the command of the likes of Henry Venn, Beecroft and Baikie. No one attains higher position without previously working under the command of his senior, such was the command structure of CMS. Crowther laid the foundation of the mission church in Onitsha and Bonny, while the Church Secretary from England appointed the Diocese.

christistruth01:
Ajayi Crowther worked Independently of Baikie

He couldn't have done it all alone by himself. He was working for the CMS church who had ordained him as first African Bishop.
He was appointed to assist Dr. William Baikie in his expedition to Niger Delta. The truth is without Crowther, the expedition of CMS missionaries to Nigeria would have been a massive fail.

gidgiddy:
The claim that Bishop Ajayi Crowther write an Igbo book is funny since he never spoke Igbo. He may have known some words, but not enough to write a book

Crowther was a linguist. He also worked with his junior colleagues of ibo descent. He also wrote a book on grammar and vocabulary in Nupe without being a nupe speaker.
Crowther was also instrumental in producing a vocabulary book in bonny dialect.

ruggedtimi:
this wasn't ajayi's crowther account, it was written by Sir William baikie

Crowther worked under the command of Baikie. As a native, Crowther contributed enormously to Baikie's works. Many of Crowther's documents were submitted to Baikie for compilation. So, i won't be in doubt if Crowther wrote this.

1Sharon:
Language of time? BS. He was an agent of Christian propaganda and smear against Yoruba religion and it worked.


A job without pay? Seriously?

He was rather an agent of Education and Evangelism.

Ekealterego:
Although Crowther was great, but he didn't bring Christianity. Many missionaries from same Sierra Leone had worked in Igboland already. Rev Taylor (Igbo origin previously based in Sierra Leone) was working at Onitsha already and did a lot of research on the native religions and beliefs.

Rev. Taylor served under Crowther. Crowther spread Christianity to Eastern region, South West, Lokoja to Bida.

ThickSharon123:
Ooooooouuuuuuu.... Stay pained. You people can change concept. Gosh, are you sure you people don't have Yoruba heritage too. Becuase you have their features and behaviour.

I should never have quoted you but just to put it on record how despicable you are and how ridiculous it has become a shared mentality among you. What has Yoruba got to do with how stupid you think of yourself. As lengthy as the thread so far, you hardly see any Yoruba troll walk in uninvited but you're just too obsessed to put them out of your head.

oyatz:
Languages aren't what determine who owns territories.
The German Language is spoken in more than 6 European countries and Arabic is spoken as first languages in many countries.



The two primary determining factors on the ownership of territories are ;

1) The political authority over the territories.







2) The peoples: In cases of referendum, referendum will only be conducted on territories where their people as represented by their political authorities demand for it.

Fact!

The current LG Chairman of Bonny is Ijaw same as the house of rep members. Aside the subnational Government of Rivers State, Ijaws control the local politics of both Bonny and Opobo.

Igboid:
This is not Baike work.
Stop being silly.

Bonny people speak Igbo as we type, and still use Igbo counting system they have always used.

Alabo7978 provided earlier document showing counting system in Bonny which was proven to correspond with the Kalabari dialects. Your tactics at shouting down on opposing views is a bit too stale.

SlayerForever:
Powerful descriptions from Crowther. Our traditional religion was well described, as observe in Aboh, today's Delta state.

Crowther would never believe today they deny to be Igbos.

That annual festival reminds me of Jewish cleansing as recorded in the old testament.

Lol. It's rather appalling seeing ibos use one hand to discredit Crowther's account on one thread while accepting his account with the other hand on another thread. Typical ibos double standard.

cc; Alabo7978 JANK23H Oyatz

bomb24:
do u have any documentation/excerpts to back up your claim about Nri hegemony in igodomigodo?

Waiting for OfoIgbo with my popcorn.