₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
I have always told you people that JWs aren't worshiping the same God with any other religion whether they claim Christian or not as long as you are not a student of Watchtower automatically you are not worshiping our God!

Long before the creation of other things God first created one spirit being {Proverbs 8:22} he spent a long time with God for so long that he always imitate whatever he notice his father/God doing {John 5:19} so as a gift for this child God decided to create more life but He wanted this child to take part in the creation work so God empowered him to create so many things {Proverbs 8:30} but the Son always give all the glory to his father.

That is why the scriptures say he was with God in the beginning {John 1:2} and when his first century disciples view this son of God they realized that even though God had many spirit sons {Job 38:7; Genesis 6:1} this one is not just one of them but the first born of all creation {Colossians 1:15} that is what makes him the only begotten Son of God. John 1:14; 3:16; 1John 4:9

So Jesus is one of the angels (sons of God) Satan is also one of them that is why they are all called morning stars {Job 38:7; Isaiah 14:12} but because God is the source of light {Psalms 36:9} and Jesus has been with God longer than all other sons of God he is the brightest of all the morning stars! Revelation 22:16

Daniel the prophet saw Jesus' in the spirit and prophesied about Jesus' mission to planet earth he called him Michael {Daniel 12:1} and everything Jesus will do was revealed to him! Daniel 12:2-3

So if anyone says Jesus is God we don't argue with them because we know that Jesus is the angel who always represent God in the past {Exodus 13:21; 14:19} and he is the prophet who was to come in the manner of Moses {Deuteronomy 18:18} the first prophet to be called God {Exodus 7:1} and Peter confirmed that Jesus is the prophet who is to come in the manner of Moses! Act 3:22

If He was created why is He said to be begotten not created??

kingxsamz:
Christianity.

Do you know the meaning of the word "another"?

musicwriter:
The version of Christianity you practice today is Roman Christianity, which was run by the Roman Catholic Church for hundreds of years. The one started in Judea was actually conquered and replaced by Rome. You're saying exactly the opposite of what happened and have no idea what Rome did!!

Who is "Rome"? Rome replaced her cherished gods as false, and their god-emperor as a lowly sinner needing forgiveness; all replaced by a God Rome "conquered". Try to at least make a little bit of sense!
Also read the below again:

MightySparrow:
This is chatGPT generated view on your question.

Yes. Outside the Bible and Jewish historical writings, there are non-Christian, Greco-Roman sources that mention Jesus (or early Christians) within the 1st and early 2nd centuries AD. These are important because they come from hostile or neutral witnesses, not believers.
Below are the most credible and commonly cited sources.
1. Tacitus (Roman historian, c. AD 56–120)
Work: Annals (Book 15, Chapter 44)
Date written: c. AD 116
Tacitus describes Nero blaming Christians for the Great Fire of Rome and explains who they were:
“Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate…”
What this confirms:
Jesus existed
He was executed
Execution was under Pontius Pilate
During the reign of Tiberius Caesar
Tacitus was hostile to Christianity, making this testimony especially strong.
2. Pliny the Younger (Roman governor, c. AD 61–113)
Work: Letters (Letter 10.96)
Date written: c. AD 112
Pliny writes to Emperor Trajan asking how to deal with Christians:
They met on a fixed day before dawn and sang a hymn to Christ as to a god…
What this confirms:
Christians worshipped Jesus as divine
Christianity spread rapidly
Worship practices existed very early
3. Suetonius (Roman historian, c. AD 69–122)
Work: Lives of the Twelve Caesars
Date written: c. AD 120
He writes about Emperor Claudius:
“He expelled the Jews from Rome because they were constantly rioting at the instigation of Chrestus.”
Most scholars understand “Chrestus” as a reference to Christ, reflecting disputes among Jews about Jesus.
What this confirms:
Early conflicts about Christ
Jesus was known enough to cause unrest in Rome
4. Lucian of Samosata (Greek satirist, c. AD 125–180)
Work: The Passing of Peregrinus
Lucian mocks Christians and writes:
They worship a man to this day—the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account…
What this confirms:
Jesus was crucified
He was a religious leader
Christians worshipped Him
Lucian was openly mocking Christianity, not supporting it.
5. Mara bar-Serapion (Syrian philosopher, late 1st or early 2nd century)
Work: Letter to his son (in Syriac)
He refers to:
“The wise king of the Jews, whom the Jews executed…”
What this confirms:
Jesus was considered wise
He was executed
His influence continued after death
Important Clarification
You asked outside the Bible and Jewish history, so sources like:
Josephus
Talmudic writings
are excluded here, even though they do mention Jesus.
Scholarly Consensus
Virtually all serious historians (Christian, Jewish, secular, atheist) agree on these minimal facts:
Jesus of Nazareth existed
He was a Jewish teacher
He was crucified under Pontius Pilate
His followers worshipped Him shortly after His death
Christianity spread rapidly despite persecution
This is why the idea that “Jesus never existed” is considered fringe and unscholarly.

LordReed:
Still not a great argument. Check on YouTube you'll find people claiming personal encounters with Norse gods and goddess even Egyptian ones.

You have mouth to say this only because you're lucky not to be dealing with any supernatural attacks!
No one needs to tell those dealing with demonic attacks that Jesus is alive, and that demons tremble at mention of that name!
Give you an example, say someone were under supernatural attack and were close to suicide. They've tried everything, then they bump into Christianity and the tormenting demons suddenly fled at mention of Jesus, do you think anyone would need to convince them Christ is alive and active? They'd know for certain without any doubt!
There are many things we don't know and not everything goes by logic.

MaxInDHouse:
OK!😃

We now know for certain that sonmvayina is musicwriter!
It is hard to camouflage who you are on Nairaland. Hard to hide your "voice"!😅

musicwriter:
Those are church traditions history to keep you believing. It's not real history. In reality, Constantine was a Devil's incarnate. He killed his son, wife, and many of his in-laws. Again, you have been kept blind about this part.

If you're descending to insults, then I wonder why you want me to believe in your God. I can't see it in you

"Are u ok?" is not an insult. It is a question.
Are you now satisfied that Constantine did NOT make up Christianity? That Rome tried it's best to suppress Christianity but failed and instead Christianity abolished their gods and their god-emperor?
Are you now satisfied that Christianity was exactly as Tacitus wrote - a small sect that started in Judea which Rome did it's utmost worst persecution to suppress but it ended up suppressing Rome without any act of aggression wharsoever?

musicwriter:
The Roman empire simply domesticated the religion as they could see that it helped to control the masses.

Yes, it was done by a wicked tyrant, not by a humane person. Constantine was overly very wicked and can go to any length to enforce his will even if he has to enforce a fiction.

He killed his son and wife. That's to tell you just how wicked he was. But this part is not taught in your church

WHO in the Roman empire? Constantine's mother and others around him were already Christians before his Edict of Milan. Christians were persecuted by Rome for a long time. The emperor was a god - Christianity took away his godship and made him a commoner, then took away all the gids that helped Rome become an empire, and labeled them false gods. So WHO exactly? Also, Rome was portrayed as bad and killing and jailing innocent people in the story they supposedly made up! Not a single good thing said about Romr!
Once again, are u ok sir?

LordReed:
Well it seems to me like you think Christianity's longevity and dominance is a reason to believe so the question is if some other equally long lived religion was dominant will it be a reason to believe? Besides there are older religions than Christianity that have had gods come in the flesh I wonder why you don't believe in those. Is it because they are not dominant? If they became dominant would you change after all they have been around longer than Christianity.

No, I've said it was personal encounter that produces the knowing with certitude that Jesus is alive and active. That's how most people become Chrustians, not through anyone convincinb them with arguments.
So the answer is, no other religion can have all the elements that led to me being a Christian because there can only be one Jesus.

musicwriter:
Nobody just sat down and said "I want to create Jesus" rather the story evolved from the snake for millions of years. It became Horus, Mithra, Krishna, Buddha, Zoroastra, etc, in various cultures . That's why your Jesus (which came relatively recently) has the same attributes as the older ones.

Indeed, that's why Tacitus will mention a "Christ" because the concept of a Savior, Messiah, redeemer was already more than 7,000 years before anybody heard of your Jesus.

So it was no longer created by Constantine. People just sat down and started writing fiction, then became willing to be tortured and killed for the fiction. Are you ok sir? And how about OT?

LordReed:
Islamic population is set to overtake Christianity and will possibly be the dominant world religion the way Christianity is today. If that happens will you then become a Muslim?

Even if everyone becomes a Muslim I'd still be a Christian. What has that to do with anything?

CandyOps:
I dey craze?? Been off it for 4 months

Congrats. Never, ever go back

DeepSight:
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I hope you know that is an impossible contradiction.

Good night.

Ok.what word would you use to describe the moon if it were eternally connected to the earth? If you're not comfortable with "begotten" then use that word

musicwriter:
The stories about your Jesus in the New testament is a generic story about a savior, Messiah, redeemer as it was told in ancient times, thousands of years before anybody heard about your Jesus.

The story was not talking about any particular person because it evolved thousands (if not millions) of years from the life of the snake. It is the Roman empire that affixed Jesus to it to tell their own version.

That's why if you read carefully, you'll notice that the writers are writing as the third person, so that even as Mathew was supposedly writing as an eyewitness to an event but he keeps on saying "Jesus said to Mathew" or "Jesus said to his disciples" even when he was the one supposedly writing!! At no time did any supposed eyewitness say "Jesus told me" or "Jesus told us".

But if you care to know, that's because the author of the book of Mathew never saw Jesus, instead he was just narrating a story as it was told for thousands of years by different cultures around the world before anybody heard about your Jesus

OoooKay! Tacitus wrote long before Constantine so who exactly commissioned creation of Christ and Christianity and WHY?? And while at it also tell us if OT is also made up

Wow, you described the sensation very well. You're a good writer. Still on it?

DeepSight:
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So your distinction is small and big "G"

The distinction is monotheism. Pagans also believe the sticks they carved are gods

DeepSight:
+
Please describe what begotten means. Because I don't understand. Begotten how? From what? As in did he give birth or what are you saying?

In doing so be careful.

Because being begotten means having a beginning.

Now, God is said to be eternal and to have no beginning.

So how will a person who is begotten then also be God?

Be careful, think carefully.

Did you read what I wrote? ETERNALLY begotten not created

MaxInDHouse:
Where is sonmvayina?
Come and see the commotion you caused! 🤣

Maybe he is musicwriter

musicwriter:
Jesus disciples never existed too. The idea of 12 disciples came from ancient Egyptian's 12 disciples of Horus

So Horus also wrote all the searingly inspired words in the NT of the lives and acts of.the apostles. WHY??

MaxInDHouse:
Don't you have elders in your church?
Why must i be the one to ask my elders if what you are asking is found in your copy of the Bible and you claim to BELIEVE it?

I just want you to articulate the difference between your belief and that of Trinitarians

DeepSight:
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Hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha!

You dont even know that many have seen others as God for centuries before Jesus!

Give example. Romans had gods, so did others

DeepSight:
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Where did you get this from?
And what is the difference?

In the NT
Created - they were made
Begotten - eternally Begotten of God.

DeepSight:
+
SAME THING. IT REQUIRES A LONG TIME OF HUMAN BELIEF. THATS WHAT YOU ARE STILL SAYING.

A long time of God ALLOWING it

DeepSight:
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I have since solved it. All the beings in Job 1:6 were sons of God including Satan.

So how is Jesus the only begotten one.

They were created not begotten

musicwriter:
Neither did the early Christians say that your Jesus was God. Jesus was only declared as God by the Roman empire in 325 AD at the council of Nivea. But, of course, Jesus NEVER existed, so it's wrong to say that he started a religion

Thomas called Him God. If He never existed who were all those disciples willing to be tortured snd die for?

DeepSight:
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So according to you a man is God if it is believed by many people over a long period.

No, I'm only saying Jesus is the only man claiming to be God who has stood a 500+-year test of time

musicwriter:
Shango worshipers experience the same thing.

Muslims do too with Muhammad.

Hinduists..........

Buddhists........

Etc.

So, there's nothing special about your Jesus

None of those believe their founder to be God

DeepSight:
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Why must it be today and why must it be a major religion?

So Jesus was not worshipped as God in the first century by any major religion as well. Did that mean he wasnt God according to you?

And if Olumba Olumba Obu is worshipped as God by all major religions one thousand years from now, will that transform him into God?

Think, man, think!

Yiu are clearly the one not thinking. If I told you Jesus's Godship has been time-tested that means I won't fault anyone who didn't believe His Godship in the Ist century. But after 2000 years?! Not only that, Christ himself said there'd be many flash-in- the-pan "Christs" and how you know is that after a while they'd disappear

DeepSight:
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Oh, many many many men are worshipped as God, and that has been the case even long before Jesus.

Mention ONE person today being worshipped as God by a major religion

MaxInDHouse:
Did you believe what God's word said or not?🙂

Of course I do. Now answer my questions

musicwriter:
You don't need Jesus to experience that comforting feeling. Other religions around the world experience the same feeling in the name of their God.

In fact, it's not even spiritual. Example, it's the same thing that happens when a mega star like Michael Jackson is performing on stage. When Jackson is on stage, some crazy fans catch that electrifying feeling and fall down. But religion has led you to call it "falling under the anointing" when it's just hysteria

It is more than a comforting feeling. It is a KNOWING beyond any doubt. Certitude

MaxInDHouse:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 KJV

Is this what you want me to explain or not?

Begotten by whom? When? Ask your supervisor elder

DeepSight:
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Why must it be 1000 years ago. These people claimed they were God within the 20th century and their ministries are doing well. How do you know how their ministries will be after 1000 years?

That's the point. Jesus Godship has stood the test of time. I've never heard of anyone worshipping Olumba Olumba as God, or anyone claiming to be God for that matter