₦airaland Forum

The kaaba was not built by abraham that's islamic tradition,kaaba goes way back to the nabatean people of arabia,allah came into play when the qurasyh conquered mecca and their pantheon wheir installed,abraham is jewish,islam has jewish influence do the math.

MetaPhysical:
I am not sure you know what you are talking about.

Kaaba has always been called that name since its inception. In its original structure, built by Abraham, it was not a cube. Followup modifications and additions to the structure got it to the cube shape.

So did Abraham know at a future time, centuries after his death it will become cubic...and so figured it is best to call it Kaaba, a cube

Hausa,lol and I thought he got it from Yoruba Muslims who traded with berbers,lol all this connecting to east africa,to sudan,to egypt,to middle east I really don't get what people are looking for,sub-saharan africa is large and very diverse genetically is very possible our ancestors created indigenous culture,and as that shared similarity waist beads can be found down to dome places in east africa,did they develop independently,was there a migration,ohh is just modern trans-african cultural exchange These are kind of questions I like to ask,not everytime middle east,egypt,sudan ethiopia

TAO11:
You know what's even funnier?

Reverend Samuel Johnson (who is not even a historian to begin with) didn't even get the Arab ancestry thing from a Yoruba.

He got it from a Hausa source --- from the then Sultan of Sokoto (Sultan Bello) through captain Hugh Clapperton's "The Records".

Prior to these sources, such an account is alien to and unheard of among the Yorubas.

You may refer to my comment at the link below to have an idea of some of the influences on the Johnsonian hypothesis:

https://www.nairaland.com/5738539/benin-governor-kneels-greet-king/14#87905826

Not all arabs thought,the ishmaelite narrative come from arabic-islamic-jewish tradition,note judaism influenced islam and arabism as it is today owes to island,well the ishmaelite arab werr arabic people who occupied west and northern arabia,arabs had a very poor documented history before islam,as they were various tribes

macof:
You didn't address so many points and just make excuses and jump to more claims

OK, now you have said you never claimed the Yoruba are semitic but rather the semitic people derived their culture, traditions and language from the Yoruba who used to live in the middle East long before the supposed time of Abraham
That should put the Yoruba presence in that region to earlier than 2000BC
Never forget this, because I know you suck at chronology

How come the studies on semitic culture and language hasn't been found to descend from or be influenced by the Yoruba?
The semitic people have had a writting culture for over 4000 years, meaning they possessed the ability to retain history better than civilizations without writing culture
One major reason silly people are quick to conclude that Africa had no history

Now let's say ok, Yoruba who civilized the semitic people, left them and went down to West Africa
Somehow they lost the writing culture of the middle East?
I would have said they also lost their language but you claim Yoruba is still an Afro-asiatic language.. So oK

You used the example of afro descendants in the americas and asked how do we know they are really afro descendants?
Well first thing is that there are records of it from 3 continents
1. Africa where they came from
2. Europe who was involved in their transportation
3. America where they arrived

And no evidence exists to debunk these records
But evidence exists to support them

Now my further questions are
What records from Yorùbáland exist and what records from the middle exist.. That state Yoruba were in the middle East? Under what names were the Yoruba called in the middle East? because we know the Yoruba never had a single name to refer to all speakers of the Yoruba language so surely the Yoruba were not a unified group when they were in the middle East right?



I could easily just end this by asking you what your source for this "it is believed Yoruba are noahdic" and "Yoruba Language is proto-semitic".. But let's go on and analyse the whole post, I will ask you later

isn't Abraham a descendant of Noah according to Hebrew narratives?
I am unsure of what Arabs say
(@RamessesIV. Can you educate me on this as you would know more about this)

So logically Abrahamics are Noahdics too.

And earlier you said Arabs descended from Ad now you say they descended from Abraham
Why the inconsistencies? You don't get to shift argument like that what da heck

And don't tell me I'm mixing anything up, you lack consistency and all 4 of you (absoluteSuccess, olu317 and obalufon included) support each other but when you get called out and you have no come back, you switch to a new argument and leave your brothers in the cold.

wait what exactly are you doing? Are you seriously implying the black people of the americas are not African?
Because you need to be clear on that

But to address the question.. yes several enslaved Africans who were born in Africa and regained freedom mentioned their original names and described their homeland and family in Africa. And in some cases descendants of an enslaved African born retained information about their homeland like in the case of Kunta Kinte's descendants

For an enslaved people forced to lose their identity that is impressive....

Oludah Equiano, Cudjo Lewis, Ayuba Suleiman Diallo and Abdul-Rahman ibn Sori are only few examples
If you are interested in the topic of enslaved Africans go and get their biographies and autobiographies because I don't get why you even think this is comparable to your claim of yoruba originating from the middle East



Except Sigidi doesn't mean to "prostrate". It refers to a clay effigy, the very core nature of the word "sigidi" is the characteristic of the object not that people prostrate to it or sing to it or pour oil on it. The name has nothing to do with the actions people do with it


Furthermore, you would have to explain the evolution of the word Shigidi to Sujud and apply same method to many other words to get your desired Cognates



You don't concern yourself with genetics but you bragged about possessing sources that state Yoruba and bedoiuns share same haplogroup

Another change of argument

And the role of a priest is what? If not to hold knowledge of what he is a priest of
He is the priest of oduduwa yet you say his role is not to posses information about Oduduwa's origin?
Where do arokin get their information from if not from the priests and families themselves?
If an arokin comes and sings something he heard from someone else about my family in a bid to surprise me, so I can't tell the arokin that his informant is wrong?
Arokin are mere praise singers

Bro is not today,Igbo's do it two,look for similarities to lash,forget scrunity or proper empiricism,bunch of discrepencies they are calling facts,I don't get the obsession with sub-saharan africa countries with northafrica/middle east if they are not claiming culture from their,they are claiming they were the original ones there I thought instagram was worst till I came to nairaland

macof:
What is your evidence that Kaaba means place of exaltation
Every dictionary gives the definition of Cube, Square

Don't run

Am new to nairaland and this thread just shows me why we need to fund archealogy and most especially etymology,lol I can literally look fot any culture i like looking for similar spellings and say they are the same,��� this is what people call fact,go to any history class with this in a credible university and you will look like a dunch,is not even Hebrew but Arab,the Arab ancestry was gotten from Yoruba muslims recorded by samuel johson,is not even the most common,people just lash on to it,cause is better to tie their tribe to a land of their religion,lol funny enough even Igbo's claim Hebrew ancestry funny thing is the same thing look for similar words and claim they have the same meaning and boom!!!! We have middle eastern ancestry

TAO11:
I totally understand your narrative. I also know that the narrative of some supposed Hebrew (or Arab) origin for the Yorubas is pseudo-history.

I am only asking that even if we pretend that all the so-called linguistic similarities (between Yoruba and Hebrew) are indeed valid; does this neccessitate the whole Yoruba from Hebrew thing. It's actually nauseating.


See, I know that many Yoruba words appears to align in both sound and meaning with Japanese words, but yet we don't see any of our people insisting on some Japanese roots for the Yorubas. Lol

And the reason is simple. Shintoism (as a Japanese religion) has zero influence among the Yorubas. It's as simple as that.

It is very obvious that what we see here is nothing but cognitive dissonance.

How people are simply trying to make sense of two opposing (and almost contradictory) inluential realities in their lives which has shaped their worldview and left a strong lasting impression.

OK OK let me review the supposed relations,first of the Kaaba means literally "cube",and oga that's not how etymology works Kaaba and kaabiyesi are not the same thing,different languages,they don't even sound the same,they are not even the same languages,these are just discrepencies twisted to fit a narrative,I can come up with lots of japanese words that are similar to my Edo language but that doesn't show a relation between the two cultures ����,funny enough they are yoruba words that were borrowed from Hausa and islam,again is not even Hebrew heritage it's arabic,mecca was In arabia,even the kaaba you mentioned was a shrine of worship fot various arab people in arabia and syria,and again islam there is no evidence of any middle eastern influence in Yoruba land aside islam or maybe berber traders,cause yorubas used arab looking sword.

MetaPhysical:
Dial back to pre-Islamic age, and you will see evidence of Yoruba footprint in everything the Meccans did.

We have listed many of the mirror expressions and practices for you guys but you continue to stress Islam...Islam...Islam...Islam.... Release your attachment from Islam so you can see without bias.

Kaaba - The Holy mosque in Mecca. In Arabic Kaab means a place of exaltation. Kaabiyesi in Yoruba means exaltation.
This is a position of relativity between a High and a Low. Akaba is the name we gave to the tool use as a bridge between High and Low.

Alhajj - a visitor in Arab. Alejo, a visitor in Yoruba.

Umrah - the preparation for a sacred holy rite. Imura, a state of preparation in Yoruba.

I can list over 100 of these cognates. Go through this thread and review my postings you will see many of them.


Islam borrowed from pre-Islamic Mecca....the age back when people of Mecca worshipped Orisha and prostrated before sigidi. The ancient Meccans learnt it from Yoruba. At one point in past times there was a co-location between the two.

Was that co-location in Old Ife, or was it in Mecca itself? This is my quest.

Question should be where did this Hebrew heritage come from?? Why is it so prevalent There is no linkage between yoruba and middle east aside islam so how come it takes center stageI mean let's be serious this is history 101 people who take in a religion that influences their culture will always want to tie their origins there,sometimes is not even religion take Chinese people of the city of liquan claim they descended from the ancient soldiers of rome why some historian claimed they look European and found some connections between them and ancient roman soldiers who migrated east,today there is a monument and museum in liquan showing their supposed roman heritage,this is not a new thing,even the mansas of mali claimed ancestry from one of Muhammed servant's,solomonids claim jewish ancestry this just shows the effect of abramhic religion on our culture,funny how islam and christianity take came recently is now taking forefront not just in culture but in history

TAO11:
I have a question which I think is quite fundamental to this exchange.

Let's pretend in the mean time (for the sake of argument) that the languages of the Yoruba people and that of some Hebrew used to be identically one and the same.

Now, why does this fact/assumption necessitate the thinking that our null hypothesis, which we must proceed with, should be: H₀ = The Yorubas descended from the Hebrews ??

Why can't our null hypothesis, which we must proceed with, be: H₀ = The Hebrews descended from the Yorubas ??

I will appreciate banter-free, brief, very direct, and very objective responses.

Also, it is very okay if our responses say something like "I actually don't know why". We don't have to force knowing why.

Cheers!
cc: macof MetaPhysical Obalufon ...

Dude called it "similar" and "coincidence" lol recorded history from both sides and multiple sources,surviving languages,customs even religion lol all for what to claim middle eastern ancestry ������

macof:
there's no reason not to bring that fact up. You talk about enslaved Africans and question their Africanness for whatever reason, be it as a joke or silly excuse to further your semitic obsession
The first fact to raise is that slavery is oppressive and entails a huge lose of identity

Again, I ask were the semitic people who you claim migrated to populate Yorùbáland enslaved and forced to forget their homeland?

Because you are the one comparing this to slavery





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQBG_0ShlUs

Yes, because this must be a coincidence.

More sensible people know it cannot be a coincidence because this supports the records of African slaves in the americas

Where are the records of semitic slaves in Yorùbáland


Look, you don't have any similar anything with yoruba language and Afro-asiatic languages prior to the relatively recent establishment of trade and borrowing of Arabic words. And these borrowed words are very recognisable
There's even a list on nairaland


I can't deal with this level of ignorance and intellectual blindness to facts

Even the Yoruba deities are strictly West African.. So just what ritual or worship footprint?


Lmao
First of all Yoruba do not have their own personal haplogroup or something. It's a haplogroup shared amongst West and Central Africans.. With little traces in other regions
Same applies for Semitic people like the Bedouin you keep mentioning who are majorly of the J-haplogroup
So if you are looking for Yoruba and bedouin haplogroups. I think that research is already done
and to suggest Yoruba and bedouin share same haplogroup is to imply that all of Africa and western Asia share same haplogroup


Secondly, the mecca story is not traditional
I have been through this
The traditional narrative has always been Òkè-Ọ̀rà

Go to the Obadio

You just want to tie to semitic so bad �������������

MetaPhysical:
Don't inject sentiments of their psychological state in this exchange. It is agreed that the cross-Atlantic slaves suffered and were oppressed and stripped of their identity. That is not what my post was about. If you didnt understand it, read again and resubmit to show underatanding.




"Coincidence" you mean recorded history from both africa and America Present day surviving culture in the America?? There is no similar these are recorded facts from different sources ���� even descendants of the transatlantic trade can narrate their history your ooni goes to brazil to meet the Yoruba community and you brush it off as "similar" "coincidence" ����
Are those traces not coincidence? How are those traces between Yoruba and Atlantic diaspora traced to be co-rooted but similar traces in Yoruba and Afro-Asiatic dismissed as coincidents and non-cognates? Is that not bias?



Which studies Which credible archealogies has shown genetic link between nigeria and the levant And please I mean credible research not some written article.
Similar studies show genetic link between Yoruba and Bedouin. I will be shocked if you don't know that....and I'd be more than happy to share if you dont already have the info.



Lol oral tradition that came from islam and was recorded by samuel johson When you say local, are you referring to oral traditions? We have oral traditions that link Yoruba to Mecca.



�����this one is denying his yoruba brothers,lol pre-islamic i can show cultural similarity with people in india,I can show you cultural similarities which Indonesian tribes that's not how history works.is niger-congo cause of etymology of language����� chai
Exactly! Thank you!
So its not about Niger Congo when we discuss Atlantic footprints but when the rituals of Yoruba is revealed to be a mirror with the practices and rituals in pre-Islamic Mecca then Niger Congo is thrown in.

You guys are frauds!



It is there is no evidence to show the belief of yoruba islamic heritage till recent times even till today it not even the most popular
You continue to attach to the idea that Yoruba came out of Islam or a Abrahamic faith. This is your problem. You are stuck in that precept and refuse to shake it loose.
Evidence of migration?? Archeological evidence?? Linkage through etymology?? Nope nah nah,some Yoruba Muslims said we came from mecca,and we have some "supposed" cultural practice with ancient Arabs so is highly plausible

There are two possibilities -
1. Yoruba was an original inhabitant of Canaan and subsequently Mecca and subsequently Niger Benue (Old Ife).

Yeah the old good Sudan if the middle east fails Sudan,Egypt or ethiopia is next 2. Yoruba was originally Niger Benue (Old Ife) then Yemen then Mecca and returned via Sudan to Waddai to Dafur to Kukawa back to Niger Benue.

Footprints and why is the footprint always middle east What makes you think the Yorubas are not indigenous to Nigeria or sub-sharan africa at large Why the middle east
Which one is it?
We are tracing footprints to discover if 1 is the corrwct story or if its 2. Nothing is assumed or ruled out. Period!

What question I already answered how north Africa became arabic,they were indigenious berber people what else again??

MetaPhysical:
Sir, you dodged my question.

Canaanites were pre arabic and jewish people who occupied the levant,is
like saying greeks came before roman doesn't change romans exist

Traces? No credible evidence,no historical evidence,no etymological linkage between the two,no credible archeological evidence that Yoruba religion was influenced by pagan arabic aside some stories this is not a new thing I can list other cultures that have christian and islamic influence and claim middle eastern ancestry most of this claims you can't even bring it before historians they will laugh at you

MetaPhysical:
This response is inaccurate.

Canaanites were the pre-Arab occupiers. Bedouins (Bedu) were the indigeneous people of Mecca and its sorroundings as well the land later known as Arabia.

The progenitor of Arab was Ad. From Ad came Yarib who founded the Arab clans.

Many of the customs in Arab culture were copied from Bedouins. Many of the worship and rituals in Arab were copied from Canaanites. Their philosophy of a supreme being and deity worship of 360 gods was introduced via Orisha, Irubo of the Yoruba Canaanites. The center of that cult worship is the Kaaba.

Even after Islam came to them, traces of Yoruba rituals is found in the new religion. This is heavy in the Hajj rituals, beginning with the dress mode in white loins, shaving of head for men, circumambulation, kissing of the black stone, and so on.

������

First of all there is recorded accounts of the yoruba slave trade stories of the slave trade still exist in nigeria even though is not taught in school,there is a well know knowledge that yoruba slaves kept some of their cultures and could trace their lineage everheard of slave returnees "ajayi crowther" "Da rocha",The yoruba language used in the america is still similar to the one in nigeria,infact pure yoruba is used during liturgy in Yoruba religions used in the america,and again they learnt new language same way north african use arabic language it doesn't suddenly erase the Berber history and ancestry the history is still there same way it doesn't erase that most of them came west and central africa,yes many can't tell exactly where they came from but lot's of them can,there is a reason they are afro-brazilians,african-americans,afro-latinas����
and then there is genetics,recorded history even surviving culture to show connection between say Santeria in caribbean with orisha of lagos,you can't compare with made up connections between sub-saharan africa and the levant,

MetaPhysical:
It is said that enslaved Yorubas took our cults with them and supplant it in Brazil, in Cuba, in Puerto Rico.

The event of 18th to 19th century.

Yoruba did not know we had people in these places. We did not have written record of people sold or their destination. When they arrived on other side their Yoruba names, language and tribes were stripped. They learnt and spoke a new language completely unrelated to the one you call Niger Congo.

Can you say there is relationship between Niger Congo Yoruba and Latin language - Portuguese, Spanish? There is none. Yet you cannot deny those people are Yoruba when you hear them use words like Babaluaye, Orica, Orixa, Chango, Alafia, Ache, Yemoja in spiritual worship. Are these words coincidences?

Since we had no written record of them and our language is not related , how then did we connect them to us? Can you explain this?

Footprint of time indeed���� the etymology dont add up niger-congo language of west Africa and Semitic language of the middle east lol how do they relate

MetaPhysical:
I say follow the footprint in the sand of time.

What study and research have you done or contributions that qualify your voice of opposition.

You cant just step into a 2 or three yr old thread and speak unguardedly. Give us your input first.....qualify your view on the subject so we know who we are talking to.

They were various berber kingdoms,some were already hellnized,some were romanized,tunisia was already christian before arabs came and played great roles in early christianity,due to arab conquest islam spread with it arabization just like egypt and sudan,even somalians are now claiming "Arab"
"Arab culture" this is the culture of Arab and the Islamic faith,if Hausas had gotten islam through arab conquest they will be arabs today just like the nubians in sudan,majority of the middle east ara arabized people.

MetaPhysical:
You said Arabized culturally.

What is Arab culture, and before its creation what was the culture of the area? Something preceeded Arab in that area. What was it?

Lol that is black history these days,come to instagram and quora,even cleopatra is even debated of being black these days(even all recorded evidence of her down to iconography says she is of greek ancestry),all these started with Afrocentric historians who were trying to fight eurocentric racist historians and here we are

kayfra:
If you have a need to be white. Bleach your skin or preferably, drink bleach.

Stop appropriating other people's history to connect to white folks. Use my recommendation and end your misery all by yourself.

Lol many don't know these the magbreb was arabized culturally not genetically,dna studies has shown that even present day morocco large majority of the population even those who claim Arab ancestry are still native Berbers �����

S400:
look , i'm algerian and berber myself , i know my country , history a little better , , we have even extrem blond blue eyes berbers here , berbers are known for being white , and arabs from pinsula arabia have a darkest skin

you can check your self pics of algerian , moroccan , tunisian streets see your self the color of the population . the dark skin you will find it in the south of sahara .

most algerians , moroccans , tunisians , libyans are berbers by genetics and arab by language only ( by definition arab are not only poeple from pensula arabia with arab genetic but include also poeple that use arabic as first language even if they havnt not arab genetics)

berbers history civilisations kingdoms are very old , hundreds years before B.C , check numidia kingdom all there kings , dynasty are well documented , with their faces on the coins of the time , sculptures etc.... caucasians since ever . same for saint augustino


and your are talking about DNA tests , there is a lot of DNA test that was down on maghreb populations same result

on the pic : An exemple of a dna study about tunisian population , you can see that they have less arab genes than europeans ones and there genetics is mostly local berber north africcan

Lol this is just foreign influence playing,in china in city of liquan the natives there claim roman ancestry,in pakistan many muslims these days are claiming arab ancestry,this obsession is because north africa and the middle east is close to us and it has a lot of religious influence

MetaPhysical:
The reference to middle east is nothing but your stereotypes at play.

We've beat this thing to death already.

There is nothing wrong with Yoruba coming from middle east or china or mexico or mongolia or even sub sahara.

We are following footprints in the dust. The footprints point to Afro Asia.

Forget about where Yoruba came from, review the footprints to see where they lead, period!

Is not really an excuse,what about native Americans and aboriginals of Australia they were called primitive and animals too when through genocide lost their countries so I don't always get the racism excuse used to judge the inferiority complex of black people,honestly I don't get the fascination with north africa and middle east,if they not claiming it entirely they are connecting their origins there.

macof:
serious inferiority complex.
To these folks, to strive to be anything but the "uncivilised African" is the aim. Just look at how they refer to African people and cultures as monkeys

And what other thing to be than those they have been indoctrinated through religion to believe are divinely superior
Deep down they consider the Yoruba in her African heritage to be inferior but remove the "African" and add the "Semitic" and they can feel better. The delusion is a coping mechanism
But let's not excuse this, it is regardless only a mind utterly lacking in intelligence that would shun evidence for imaginary nonsense

Lol so because of some racist in faraway europe that's why you're doing all this,lol white people said you don't have history so you're making up yours To prove what So what will the ones in native america and Australia do?

And when I refer to "negro" I refer to dark-skinned people of sub-saharan ancestry,funny how black history these days is always about the middle east and north africa and not sub-saharan africa itself �����

2prexios:
I want to believe you did not register a brand new account on nairaland just for this? Time will tell.



Our obsession to black race is to inform you that we have history dating back to 5000 years ago in non-black societies around the world today.

We are not a 'negro' whose history began with the advent of the European explorers in West coast, whose antiquity must be confined to this place.

We are not negro whose identity is a continent they have to themselves, we are a people who can trace back to our root as far back.

We are not an object of white Historical and scientific studies, we have interest in our history and antiquities too.

So don't worry if we think differently too. We are not writing the history of the world, but the unwritten history of our ancestors.

We have history dating that far, 5000 years of footprints stretching beyond our immediate environment, it's not a crime making this an obsession.

Why do you prefer we confine to the continent we have? I think NASA need to confine to the earth and not find out about the outer space anymore.

The limit of knowledge is always stretching.

Lol the unmixed berbers are still in village regions in morocco you can go there and zee for your self they have a brownish Mediterranean look,even the genetics is there majority of Berbers In morocco and Algeria are arabized by culture not blood

Obalufon:
berbers are not white the berbers you see now are mixed berbers with Arabs the real Berbers are still in Algeria and morroco though little mixed with white but black

Please enough of the afrocentrism,north africa was never invaded fully conquered till arab invasion,and invasion doesn't lead to population displacement,lol all these afrocentric history has been debunked,berbers have always been brown and lightskinned,lol so you are using european writers to write about history of a people who are still there,there is european drawing and description of them with lightskinned too,please dark skinned people were mostly in sub-saharan africa,the dark skinned berbers where mostly down from sub-saharan africa,same way the ones In modern mauritania are from north africa due to trade and migration

Obalufon:
Indigenous Berber, the Blue men, with the eponymous blue cloth veil

One of the most misrepresent people in North Africa are the indigenous Berber people. These beautiful women are not shown on mainstream television, movies and rarely in print. These are the descendants of the ancient Berbers that the ancient Romans spoke of and wrote about.

The original indigenous Berbers were the North African ancestors of the present day dark-brown peoples of the Sahara and the Sahel, mainly those called Fulani, Tugareg, Zenagha of Southern Morocco, Kunta and Tebbu of the Sahel countries, as well as other dark-brown arabs now living in Mauretania and throughout the Sahel, including the Trarza of Mauretania and Senegal, the Mogharba as well as dozens of other Sudanese tribes, the Chaamba of Chad and Algeria.” The Westerners have chosen to concentrate on the most recent world of the Arab and Berber-speaking peoples and present it as if it is a world that has always been. “It is like comparing the Aztecs of five hundred years ago with the ethnic mix of America today,” wrote Reynolds. “The story of when North Africa was Moorish and Arabia, the land of Saracens, has yet to be told.”

– Dana Reynolds, Anthropologist

Anthropologist, Dana Reynolds traced the African roots of the original North African peoples through a dozen Greek and Byzantine (neo-Roman writers) from the first to the sixth century A.D. “They describe the Berber population of Northern Africa as dark-skinned [modern Europeans call dark brown skin color, as black-skinned] and woolly-haired.” Among these writers who wrote about the Berbers were Martial, Silius Italicus, Corippus and Procopius.

Saint Augustine was a dark-skinned Berber and many of the later Roman emperors would have trouble getting citizenship in some of today’s European states.

– Professor Mikuláš Lobkowicz, the former rector of the Munich university and current director of the Institute of Central and East European Studies in Eichstätt.

There are those who say that the Berber is part of the African story of Ham, from the land of Ber, the son of biblical figure Ham.

The original inhabitants of Ireland before the Celts invaded were Berber people who stretch all the way from Saharan Africa to Western Ireland. In North Africa they are known as Berbers, the original people before the Arab invasion of North Africa, they were known to the ancient Greeks and Romans as “barbarians,” the Tuaregs of Nigeria, Niger, Chad, etc. are a Berber people.

[Editors note: the Kanuris of North-Eastern Nigeria are known as the Iberi-beris. They are Berbers originally from Fezzan Libya]

In Spain and Portugal they were known as “Iberians,” which is the name of the Peninsula. In Ireland the Berbers are known as “Hibernians.” The Celts and later invaders pushed them back to the West of Ireland, where you most commonly see the “black Irish” with black hair and brown eyes. The most popular recreational organization of Irish Americans is the Ancient Order of Hibernians (AOH).

Modern Berber family having a traditional meal

The images that are shown in mainstream television, movies and in print are of the lighter skinned people that are also referred as Berber. Modern north Africa has changed a great deal, from waves of invasions such as the Persians, Greeks, Romans, Germanic tribes, Arabs, Turks and the French have led to the amalgamation in the region. The role of literally millions of enslaved Indo-Europeans and concubinage in the creation of admixed populations in cities like Tunis, Tripoli, Fez, Sale and Algiers are well documented. This is the formation of populations in north Africa today. These now lighter skinned people do not call themselves African. In fact, the term “African” is a very demonized term to many, more than likely because of the modern European invasion into Africa, Europeans had to justify their behavior (some still do), and the term African is the object of ridicule and humiliation. The term Berber is now a regional word to apply to these people that now share many common cultural ideas and customs. “

Lol berbers have always been lightskinned please all this afrocentrism to tie yourself to north africa

Obalufon:
berbers are not white the berbers you see now are mixed berbers with Arabs the real Berbers are still in Algeria and morroco though little mixed with white but black

Let your so called Oba of benin try the nigerian government then we will know

samuk:
By Ojealaro Stewart Friday.

After being incominicado for some days due to a horrible armed robbers attack at my Abuja abode,I improvised and got a gadget to peep into the items that are trending on social media. Two outstanding items caught my attention. One is the matter concerning APC illegally-convened NEC meeting to oust Oshiomhole. This though huge is not enough to make me ignore the biggest topic of all...the deposition of Emir Sanusi of Kano and his banishment to Nasarawa State. I saw many articles on the matter by Nigerians and once again,wittingly or unwittingly Nigerians admitted the preeminence of the Benin Throne above all other traditional stools in Nigeria. As one of my brothers,Elabor Joe pointed out,he said " It was Emir of Kano that was dethroned but it is the Oba of Benin that is trending in lieu..." I think he said this because of the fact that Nigerians are comparing the Kano stool to the Benin stool. Yes,it is this sacrilegious comparison that provoked this my article. Benin cannot in anyway be compared to Kano and these are my reasons;

1. Age of Stool.
While the Benin throne is over 3000 years old( from the time of the Odionweres through the Ogisos to the Obas),the Kano Emirate is an aftermath of the 1804 Jihad of Usman Dan Fodio. It is a stool that is less that 300 years. The majestic aura is new and spiritually bland compared to that of Benin

2. NATURE Of Thrones.
The Oba of Benin is deemed a living god amongst men. He is an absolute monarch and no one is above him except God. No governor or president has a hand in his appointment. He is born to be King not to be elected. There are spiritual repercussions for anybody to tamper with the procedure of his ascension . On the other hand,the Emir of Kano is usually picked as you would a primary 6 class monitor by the governor of the state. This is with the understanding that he is answerable in certain matters to another traditional ruler...the Sultan of Sokoto.

3. Constituents of both Kingdoms

The Emirate of Kano is ruled by Fulanis but with over 80% of the constituents Hausa people. There is lack of traditional harmony that goes when the ruler and the ruled are related. Bola Ige ( of blessed memory) once described Edo people as a family not nation not tribe but family tied by blood.

4. Degree of supervision by state governments.

Let's get this very clear,no Governor nor head of state can depose an Oba of Benin or any of his cousins who are hereditary occupants of the mini kingdoms in Edo. Using the Oba Overamwen case as an instance of when an Oba of Benin was deposed is farfetched and irrelevant. His was a consequence of international war between Britain and Independent Benin Empire. The fact that he was not replaced by any person who is not his son tells you the situation is quite different. No, Oba of Benin cannot be deposed. According to Pauly Okpere,no Edo Governor dares tries it. In Edo,it is the governor that panders to the Oba not the Oba that panders up to the governor. The farther a wayward governor can go is to suspend the Oba from the state traditional council and this is not common and in fact,it only happened once and by a non indigene Military Administrator called Tony Onyeregbulem( Terrible Tony he was called). What happened when he declared Oba Erediauwa ( God rest his soul) suspended? The whole members of Edo state traditional council in solidarity with their traditional father boycotted the council and traditionally suspended Tony Onyeregbulem. While the Suspension of the Oba was lifted through the wise intervention of his relative Prof Ben Nwabueze ( who clearly knows his cousin was treading dangerous waters). But because the spiritually powerful Edo traditional rulers did not lift the suspension on Onyeregbulem,he died tragically in a certain hotel in Kaduna. Some claimed he was calling mosquitos Benin spirits before his demise. Let me also give another example of the suspension of a Benin hereditary traditional ruler...The Ojuromi of Uromi. Oshiomhole only deprived him of allowances from the coffers of the traditional council which is controlled by the governor. He did not dare go further than that as the people of Uromi throughout the period of suspension still hold their traditional court at the palace of the King of Uromi with the Ojuromi himself presiding. The conclusion is that,suspensions of the Oba of Benin or any traditional ruler in Edo state can only amount to statements made in poof and nothing more. It is the pronouncer of such sacrilegious statement that is actually in danger of repercussions.

CONCLUSION...

The deposition of Emir Sanusi incongruously laid to rest the matter of who amongst Nigerian traditional Rulers is the real deal.Nobody talked about any but the great Oba of Benin. This is because,they see the others as 'Efulefus' where the Oba of Benin is involved. I believe so too.

And what is the obssession with looking for blackness in every non-black society Like you have a whole continent to yourself why are so obsessed with who was black or not 5000 years ago??

Obalufon:
Indigenous Berber, the Blue men, with the eponymous blue cloth veil

One of the most misrepresent people in North Africa are the indigenous Berber people. These beautiful women are not shown on mainstream television, movies and rarely in print. These are the descendants of the ancient Berbers that the ancient Romans spoke of and wrote about.

The original indigenous Berbers were the North African ancestors of the present day dark-brown peoples of the Sahara and the Sahel, mainly those called Fulani, Tugareg, Zenagha of Southern Morocco, Kunta and Tebbu of the Sahel countries, as well as other dark-brown arabs now living in Mauretania and throughout the Sahel, including the Trarza of Mauretania and Senegal, the Mogharba as well as dozens of other Sudanese tribes, the Chaamba of Chad and Algeria.” The Westerners have chosen to concentrate on the most recent world of the Arab and Berber-speaking peoples and present it as if it is a world that has always been. “It is like comparing the Aztecs of five hundred years ago with the ethnic mix of America today,” wrote Reynolds. “The story of when North Africa was Moorish and Arabia, the land of Saracens, has yet to be told.”

– Dana Reynolds, Anthropologist

Anthropologist, Dana Reynolds traced the African roots of the original North African peoples through a dozen Greek and Byzantine (neo-Roman writers) from the first to the sixth century A.D. “They describe the Berber population of Northern Africa as dark-skinned [modern Europeans call dark brown skin color, as black-skinned] and woolly-haired.” Among these writers who wrote about the Berbers were Martial, Silius Italicus, Corippus and Procopius.

Saint Augustine was a dark-skinned Berber and many of the later Roman emperors would have trouble getting citizenship in some of today’s European states.

– Professor Mikuláš Lobkowicz, the former rector of the Munich university and current director of the Institute of Central and East European Studies in Eichstätt.

There are those who say that the Berber is part of the African story of Ham, from the land of Ber, the son of biblical figure Ham.

The original inhabitants of Ireland before the Celts invaded were Berber people who stretch all the way from Saharan Africa to Western Ireland. In North Africa they are known as Berbers, the original people before the Arab invasion of North Africa, they were known to the ancient Greeks and Romans as “barbarians,” the Tuaregs of Nigeria, Niger, Chad, etc. are a Berber people.

[Editors note: the Kanuris of North-Eastern Nigeria are known as the Iberi-beris. They are Berbers originally from Fezzan Libya]

In Spain and Portugal they were known as “Iberians,” which is the name of the Peninsula. In Ireland the Berbers are known as “Hibernians.” The Celts and later invaders pushed them back to the West of Ireland, where you most commonly see the “black Irish” with black hair and brown eyes. The most popular recreational organization of Irish Americans is the Ancient Order of Hibernians (AOH).

Modern Berber family having a traditional meal

The images that are shown in mainstream television, movies and in print are of the lighter skinned people that are also referred as Berber. Modern north Africa has changed a great deal, from waves of invasions such as the Persians, Greeks, Romans, Germanic tribes, Arabs, Turks and the French have led to the amalgamation in the region. The role of literally millions of enslaved Indo-Europeans and concubinage in the creation of admixed populations in cities like Tunis, Tripoli, Fez, Sale and Algiers are well documented. This is the formation of populations in north Africa today. These now lighter skinned people do not call themselves African. In fact, the term “African” is a very demonized term to many, more than likely because of the modern European invasion into Africa, Europeans had to justify their behavior (some still do), and the term African is the object of ridicule and humiliation. The term Berber is now a regional word to apply to these people that now share many common cultural ideas and customs. “

Please programmers I need your help.I just bought a new Hp laptop,and i want to learn computer programming(newbie),please what are necessary programs/applications do I need to get on my laptop as an aspiring programmer??

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This inferiority complex of negros,that they want to look for ways to tie themselves to the middle east cause of religion no wonder whites claim we weren't doing anything and all our achievements were done by Berber/arabs ���

Not all africans,those sold into slavery,and not all africans participated in it

nobaga:
I wonder why this did not make the front page.

This is just a tip of the iceberg of what they did to all Africans.

Keep on kissing up to them as your saviors that gave you religion and civilization out of "shithole" countries.

When is the next trip through the deserts, ships or planes?

Most of this pics don't correlate with the topic