₦airaland Forum

dalaman:
You are a liar and a person that spin and churn out lies just because you choose to believe and accept ancient mythology and fiction. Jesus said he did not know the day or hour of his return and not the period. He was specific about day and hour. He never mentioned the period. It's a lie to claim he did not know the period since he has stated to different people that he'll return during their lifetime. He was clear about not knowing ONLY the time and hour. Remember he also told the chief priest that he'll see him coming from the clouds with power and glory on his return when he asked him if he was the son of God.



Just as the days of Noah it says. Noah knew the flood was going to happen during his generation and the life time of the people he was talking to. What he didn't know was the specific time and hour the rains will begin. Same as Jesus, Jesus told the people he'll return during their lifetime but the specific time and hour he says he does not know. So he told them to be ready at all times.



Jesus was more interested in the hour and day, so he told his desciples to take heed and be ready at all times. He was specific about hour, morning, evening or midnight. He never mentioned period only specific hour and day. So you fail with your spin. Only day and hour he said he doesn't know. He talked about returning during the generation of the peoplehe was talking to. He specified by saying THIS generation will not pass away without this things happening.


Sure Jesus was talking about his second coming but he wasn't talking about the period. He was specific about not knowing the hour or day and not the period in which he'll return. He stated it about 3 different times to different people that he'll return during their lifetime. His prophecy failed and is a major concern to you that is why you are all over the place spinning his words and telling lies. The bible is filled with endless contradictions that is why there are uncountable number of Christian sect mostly disagreeing with each other on doctrinal matters and other faiths related issues. This is one clear case of failed prophecy on Jesus's part.



Saying that it surpasses the immediate listener is your own making and spin. Other christians have interpreted this verse very differently from you here on nairaland. You are just giving it your own twist and opinion just the way they have giving theirs and alll your opinions and spin differ. I cam give you links to their own different spin and opinions. We've debated this verse before with other christians. You guys just spin it differently. If the message is for the end church which cities in Israel is Jesus telling them to run to? Don't come up with your spiritual Israel spin because it is a lie and will be your own making . Jesus was specific in his message according to the story. He told them to run round the cities of Israel specifically and before they finish runninghe'll return. If the message is for the future church as you are claiming why did he mention cities of Israel?

Even from the bible you'll read that they disciples suffered persecution even in Israel. After Jesus was arrested his disciples had to run. Peter had to deny him three times because he his followers were to be arrested and face persecution. Paul was going after them within Israel and it's environment. According to writings in the new testament, Paul was dedicated to the persecution of the early disciples of Jesus in the area of Jerusalem before he encountered Jesus on his way to Damascus. It is a lie that christians expanded from Jerusalem. Majority of the people living in Jerusalem are Jews as majority of the Jews never became christians . Very few christians have lived and are living there. Christians started expanding from gentile lands. Disciples were first called christians not in Israel but in the gentile land of Antioch which was a Greko Roman land in present day Turkey. So again you are just mixing facts up. Stop spinning the messages of Jesus with regards to coming during the lifetime of the people he spoke to. He was specific, doing so only makes you a desperate liar.

Now, this is what I call brutality... Good job

KingEbukasBlog:
The image of God also referred to the immaterial part of man which is the spirit of man and of course we don't know how that looks like . Forget the movies . Remember that God is a spirit - immaterial . Sorry I didn't include that before

This explanation is well thought out. I have to admit it but it seems forced. Like in a bid to make the concept of Trinity more acceptable and less ridiculous, these people developed an explanation to exclude the contradictions that are attendant with the other explanations... If it this is true and that simple, it should and would have been explained by the bible. But the bible reference we have actually don't support this explanations...

chrmn1:
Ouch! A ban? Didn’t see any post of yours that would warrant a ban. Well my bad, that’s the effect of not being able to read all posts in a thread. Do you realize that when God appeared to Abraham, he and his household were idol worshippers? (Joshua 24:2). Let me explain something to you. Did you know that God called Abraham initially when he was living in Mesopotamia even before he came to Haaran (Acts 7:1-5). Do you realize that God had just called an idol worshipper and the process involved to give him a new orientation was always going to be gradual and He had only barely started dealing with Abraham when the bible records that Abraham had slaves?
I’m not saying because of freewill God could not forbid slavery. He normally would give an instruction but its left for the people to obey or disobey. That’s were freewill comes in. That passage in 1 Tim 1:8-10 shows that it was not exactly lawful as per God’s standards but He would still work with them because their race would produce the Messiah. I already explained previously the reasoning behind taking of captives in war situations
Now the Jews were wonderful people. They knew how to sieve God’s instructions and adhere to the ones that were favourable to them whilst ignoring the ones that they didn’t like. Jesus scolded them time and again for this attitude. Remember when He said to them, ‘you guys like to pay your tithe and all but you leave out the basics of your faith – truth and justice’ (paraphrased). So non compliance with instruction was hardly any proof that the instruction was not there originally. As I showed you yesterday, there were instances where a slave would rather be one than be freed so in such a situation should He override the will of the slave?
Again I’d say if your definition of ‘God can do all things’ includes doing things outside His character then I’d agree with you that He cannot do all things.
Now you say I told a lie. You quoted from NLT in your original post and I did same and you call me a liar? I did not give you chrmn1 version, I gave you NLT. Well, look up the link below; it shows a list of translations of the particular word

http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/1-10.htm

Additionally, please look at this link below; which translates the words in that verse from the original greek, the word is enslavers:

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_timothy/1-10.htm

Why are you doing this?? You are making my points for me. So the process of God orientating Abraham was gradual?? God never told him at any point to stop slavery. God called Abraham at 75 and he died at 175. That's a whole hundred years to tell him but God didn't say anything... And plss, Abraham always had slaves. He even received more slaves from Abimelech...
Now, according to you. God would normally give an instruction but it's left for people to obey or disobey. Well why didn't he give an instruction prohibiting slavery?? People got stoned for adultery. Why couldn't God command that people who bought slaves should be stoned too?
And while am kinda sorry I called u a liar, we can't conclude that Paul actually included slave owners since many of the translations don't have that word. In fact, its more likely he meant kidnappers. So the closest thing the bible came to condemning slavery is not even certainly a criticism of slavery

KingEbukasBlog:
In the past I thought it was physical likeness but I discovered I was wrong as I read widely . In
Philippians 2:7
7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Christ took the likeness of men in order to save us .

It has to do with mental , social , moral likeness . We are intelligent , we know good or evil and we can interact socially . God is omniscient , God knows good and evil and God has a social nature in the sense that he interacts with men and intervenes in the affairs of men . And before he created men the trinity communed among themselves and they had the angels at some point .

The mental, social and moral likeness don't exclude physical appearance. In fact in Genesis, it says "Let's make man in our IMAGE. After our own LIKENESS." That's two different concepts. Image is talking about physical appearance, that's the dictionary meaning. Likeness has to do with social, mental and stuff.
So when that verse says Christ took the likeness of men. It was talking about the vulnerabilities of humans not mere physical appearance

Image123:
Don't be mad, i understand that the truth is bitter. Coming in His kingdom simply means coming in His royalty or realm. That was what Jesus was transfigured into before the eyes of three(some) of His disciples on the mount and Peter gave witness to it.
2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eye[b]witnesses of his majesty. [/b]
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

As to the other verses that you brought up, they say nothing about Jesus coming in the lifetime of the 12 disciples. They clearly say that Jesus will come in the generation of the people that would witness those signs spoken of. Those signs are yet to be witnessed, or have they? The generation of people that would witness those things talked about will not pass away before the second coming. Like i expect you to get furious and gnash your teeth in rage, envy and jealousy. they did it to Jesus and the servant is not greater than his Master. It is not my fault that you are blind and dead, neither can you hear the words of my Master.

Don't be mad?? Are u running scared?? Calm down, okay?
So the Matthew reference was talking about transfiguration?? In my bible, the good news version. The heading of that part reads: "Jesus speaks about his suffering and death."
Now the preceding verses to verse 28 i.e. verse 27 says
27 For the Son of Man is about to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will reward each one according to his deeds.
So did Jesus come with angels on the mount of transfiguration?? Or did he reward each according to his deeds?? Why are u lying like this... Or verse 27 is also talking of transfiguration??.
As regards the other verses I quoted, they are not talking about this generation.
Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…“ (Mark 13:26-30)
It says THIS generation! How can it refer to our generation 2,000 years ago by using the word THIS. Abi Jesus no sabi English again? Or whatever language he was speaking

Image123:
Lol, how won't i miss the whole point with you. Once i say there is no God, i get the whole point, right? Silly. Your friends said that natural phenoma is evil and they got all superstitious about it, i showed it so, now you tell me that i miss the point. Why do you stay in a fire and then claim fire is evil? Your friends claimed that tsunamis and hurricanes are evil, i simply gave them the scientific perspective, that's how geographers, meterologists, geologists view them on Discovery Channel. They are exciting, really
The earth is not perfect, but used to be. Stop acting like someone who lost his memory of the Genesis account.

Wow!! A lot of crap but one question, two actually.
- what is the biblical reference that the earth used to be perfect?
- and tsunamis and hurricanes are evil. But necessary. Tell me, who made them necessary?

KingEbukasBlog:
One God = Three Persons

Eg
RandomPerson existing as three persons in a different dimension

So each person forms one-third of God?? So God is not a person but a concept like government... Executive, legislature, judiciary??

KingEbukasBlog:
Exactly

Actually it has been revealed that God has at least 9 dimensions

9 dimensions.. Wow. I thought God said let's create man in our own IMAGE

KingEbukasBlog:
This diagram should help . Though I was told to stop using it for obvious reasons but it is now expedient to put it up again .

So there are three different people and each of them is God?? There are three Gods then?

KingEbukasBlog:
Christ as God incarnate and theophanies .

So God doesn't actually have human form?? He only reveals himself to humans in human form? Am I getting this right??

KingEbukasBlog:
Because of his human nature . That's why he also prayed to God , gave thanks to God , etc . So his human nature precluded omniscience and weakened his prescience .

So there are two Gods?? My argument here is not even that Jesus is not God, we can trash that out later but that they are not the same person... If Jesus is also his father... Then how come he knows what he doesn't know.. I know it sounds crazy. That's Trinity for u. Lemme get this straight first... Do u believe God and Jesus are one??

KingEbukasBlog:
Can any atheist bring forth any worthy argument . Any

So let's go back to the OP

Why do you think Xenophanes criticized anthropomorphism ? Do you think he would have maintained his criticism of anthropomorphism if he understood the concept of a Triune God ?

Wait! U believe anthropomorphism?? That means God has a d.I.c.k right??

chrmn1:
If the thought that the young lads did what they did in knowledge and rebellion, they have themselves to blame. No one sees fire and walks into it but if anyone chooses to do this it's only fair that they bear the consequences.

Keep, giving excuses for your God's wickedness, u hear... If it was in Quran this happened now, u would condemn it as why Allah is wicked... But since na your God do am... Don't worry, next time some kids are disrespectful to you just carry cutlass and machete them to death... They would have deserved it

KingEbukasBlog:
Do not confuse triadic gods , Tritheism with Christian's Trinity . The difference is that in Trinity Yahweh , Yeshua and Ruach Hakodesh are made of the same substance and essence , existing as one eternally .



You are really new here and you keep rehashing old arguments . You apparently don't understand the Truine Nature of God . This is not proof that the trinity does not exist , this is a just a gallimaufry of misconstrued bible verses . If I should start explaining each verse it would go into interminable arguments which is otiose to your life as an atheist .

Misconstrued?? When Jesus clearly states that he doesn't know when he is coming back but only his father knows... Tell me is it possible to know and not know something at the same time??

KingEbukasBlog:
Prove it

The concept of Trinity is one of the many reasons Christianity is seen as falsehood.
Firstly, it's not even an original concept. Indian, Egyptian, Greek and Roman mythologies also reveal the concept of Trinity.
Then, no place in the bible is it mentioned that the father, son and spirit are the same person and are all God
Then the actual words of Jesus Christ make the concept of Trinity ridiculous at the very least.
For example:
“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.” John 5:30

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. John 14:28

Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. Luke 22:42
If Jesus is God, that means he has two wills?? And he was praying to himself to allow his(Jesus) will but on ultimate subjection to his (God) will

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Mark 13:32
The above verse completely rubbishes the idea of Trinity. Or are u saying God know and didn't know the time of his coming at the same time?

It's his spiritual age now... Mtscheew

Wow... Was expecting something different for once but well...

promisechuks:
A monstrous skydaddy definitely doesn't exist. so stop searching for him and search for God.

don't get pained kid

God is the monstrous skydaddy

KingEbukaNaija:
I want us to reason together . I mean we should apply sound reasoning

God created one man and one woman , how do you think they would populate the world ?

That's the problem exactly... Why create only a couple if you don't want incest... God should have thought this true na

chrmn1:
You really did not need to use another monkier but it's okay.
Now if you scan through the old testament from beginning to end, you will never find any portion where it was stated that God discouraged the Israelites from the act of divorce. But in the NT, Jesus' testimony clearly demonstrates that that conversation had been ongoing between God and the Jews.
Even Jesus said there were a lot of His deeds that were not recorded. That if they were all recorded, we'd struggle to put them all together. That said, in that time, there was constant fighting amongst nations and if a nation did not fight back they would be killed and enslaved.
Point I'm making is that not every thing God permitted the Israelites to do that He necessarily sanctioned. Do you know that at the time when God gave the nation a king in the person of Saul, that was not His perfect will for them at the time but again, He permitted them to go ahead because of their obstinate hearts (Read 1 Samuel chapter eight).

If you read the passage in 1 Timothy 1 carefully, Paul was warning against certain men who wanted to teach the law (old covenant) . Paul made a remarkable statement that the law was not made for the righteous but the unlawful implying that in the new dispensation, it was not appropriate trying to teach the law since Jesus had made the people righteous and had introduced a new order. This clearly shows that the idea of slave trade (mentioned as one of the unlawful acts) being an unsound practice was not a new concept.

My other account was banned, u should have been able to infer that..
And your argument that God merely permitted slavery holds no water. Abraham was ready to murder his only son for God he would have readily released his slaves for God but God never told him to stop buying and owning slaves
Genesis 12:5 Abram took his wife Sarai, his nephew Lot, and all the wealth and all the slaves they had acquired in Haran, and they started out for the land of Canaan.
God didn't permit the eating of shellfish or pork. He didn't consider freewill at that time but you are claiming it's because of freewill that he couldn't forbid slavery. In fact, if a person at that time was not comfortable with slavery, God made it okay by saying they could purchase slaves. It's dishonest to use the freewill argument when that didn't stop God from forbidding all the small unimportant things he forbade
And the idea that God permits something because of the people obstinate hearts is contrary to the omnipotence of God... It's simply a case of punishing them if they don't comply. The way he did for other sins.
And that bible verse u quoted referred to kidnappers not slave owners. I checked the good news and amplified versions. Even the KJV says man stealers...
I thought u were a Christian why the lies??

I agree totally with you... There's no compulsion. Only that if you try to leave the religion, you will be killed and if you manage to escape being killed u would be roasted for all eternity... Apart from that, completely no compulsion.

God is not a good god... He is a sadistic god...

KingEbukaNaija:
You do realize that I'm gona repeat what has been said there . Why go over the same thing again ?

Hey, I asked your bro, rich a question and he didn't answer. Maybe you can help him...
This baba God sef no know wetin he want... The first incest incidence ever was caused by God... The one that occurred between their children. Why create only one family if you don't want incest. The second incest too, na baba God cause am. He only left Noah's family after the flood, so the children and grand children were busy straffing each other and he was watching all along... There was even a product of incest in Jesus genealogy... I mean can God just make up his mind about what he wants
Or maybe not...

4everGod:
If you say you play for pleasure then you are slave to your own pleasures. If you say you play because of the choir girls then you are a slave to the system because of them. Either way you are a slave!

The victims are the girls as they are the ones you defile thereby offending God. Your recompense awaits you Mr Slave!

Why do you eat?? Because u are hungry?? Then u are a slave to your emotions.. See how brilliant that sounds??.. So if you are working for a salary or doing business for profit, you are a slave to that job or business... And plss there is no victim here, it's a mutually beneficial relationship and there is no recompense anywhere... But if you are saying that to feel better about yourself then, aiite.

This is sick... So because the maker of a ship -one person says something disrespectful to God, he decided to kill a lot of other people who probably didn't even support the statement... That's something Hitler or Idi- Amin would do...

Kalatium:
Do you know that Christianity is a religion of peace if you try this in the other religion you can be killed.

What are u saying?? Ur God didn't condemn slavery and all u can say is Christianity is a religion of peace?

chrmn1:
Okay. It would be wrong in my opinion. The reason is that there are more organised systems and UN regulations, signed pacts, etc that guide the behaviour of nations today unlike in those days. Then it was basically the survival of the fittest. So if a nation was stronger than its rivals it would simply overthrow and enslave them. At the time, it might not have been a wrong thing to do because it was a time of conquest and if a nation overpowered another nation, the victim nation would naturally plot a comeback to salvage their families that had been taken as spoils of war and return their Kingdom and economy back to normalcy. So if the victim nation were not placed in a subdued position that would fight back. It's quite different today.

It is wrong now and it was wrong at that time... God should have known that then and should have told the humans... Why did men have to arrive at that conclusion themselves? What is God's duty if me can't tell if us what's wrong as at when due

chrmn1:
For an answer to your question see 4everGod's response in page 5. That's the last post on page 5. Additionally, I'd say it's a false assumption to say that God didn't forbid slavery. Look up 1 Timothy 1:9-10. It reads: "For the law was not intended for people who do what is right. It is for people who are lawless and rebellious, who are ungodly and sinful, who consider nothing sacred and defile what is holy, who kill their father or mother or commit other murders. The law is for people who are sexually immoral, or who practice homosexuality, or are slave traders, liars, promise breakers, or who do anything else that contradicts the wholesome teaching"

That was many years later... Why didn't he do it earlier?? He had the time to forbid eating shell fish

Richirich713:
Atheists are the scared ones, they afraid to defend their views, that's why they always so desperate to change the topic, it's a tactic only a coward would use.

Amma copy and paste for you... Just attempt to address the issue raised. I know it will be difficult but try to stay on topic. So...
This baba God sef no know wetin he want... The first incest incidence ever was caused by God... The one that occurred between their children. Why create only one family if you don't want incest. The second incest too, na baba God cause am. He only left Noah's family after the flood, so the children and grand children were busy straffing each other and he was watching all along... There was even a product of incest in Jesus genealogy... I mean can God just make up his mind about what he wants

This baba God sef no know wetin he want... The first incest incidence ever was caused by God... The one that occurred between their children. Why create only one family if you don't want incest. The second incest too, na baba God cause am. He only left Noah's family after the flood, so the children and grand children were busy straffing each other and he was watching all along... There was even a product of incest in Jesus genealogy... I mean can God just make up his mind about what he wants

4everGod:
Sharrap. Onesimus ran to Paul and Paul kept him and got him saved. However he still was legally bound ti Philemon so Paul also got Philemon saved before now asking Onesimus to return to Philemon and charged Philemon to see him as a free man and this demand by Paul was meant to make Philemon LEGALLY set Onesimus free from slavery which was why Paul said IF YOU SAY YOU ARE MY PARTNER THEN DO THAT WHICH IS RIGHT.

Never ever try to twist scripture to your own gain.

So tell me why God failed to forbid slavery?? Was it not important or did he forget?

chrmn1:
Please read these passages carefully:

Philemon 1:8-19:

"That is why I am boldly asking a favor of you. I could demand it in the name of Christ because it is the right thing for you to do. 9 But because of our love, I prefer simply to ask you. Consider this as a request from me—Paul, an old man and now also a prisoner for the sake of Christ Jesus.[b]
10 I appeal to you to show kindness to my child, Onesimus. I became his father in the faith while here in prison. 11 Onesimus[c] hasn’t been of much use to you in the past, but now he is very useful to both of us. 12 I am sending him back to you, and with him comes my own heart.

13 I wanted to keep him here with me while I am in these chains for preaching the Good News, and he would have helped me on your behalf. 14 But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent. I wanted you to help because you were willing, not because you were forced. 15 It seems you lost Onesimus for a little while so that you could have him back forever. 16 He is no longer like a slave to you. He is more than a slave, for he is a beloved brother, especially to me. Now he will mean much more to you, both as a man and as a brother in the Lord.

17 So if you consider me your partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. 18 If he has wronged you in any way or owes you anything, charge it to me. 19 I, PAUL, WRITE THIS WITH MY OWN HAND: I WILL REPAY IT. AND I WON’T MENTION THAT YOU OWE ME YOUR VERY SOUL!"

Note the bolded part, he says he could have made a demand as it was the right thing for him to do but preferred to go the diplomatic way which was astutely brilliant on the part of Paul. He knew how difficult humans can be and that if he made a demand, there might have been a clash of egos.

Please read patiently. Thanks.

The original slave owner was also a Christian?? And why didn't God or Jesus himself forbid slavery. Did they think it was okay to enslave other humans?