Recognise on October 26, 2009, 01:45 PM Post #6:


. . . Beg to differ. If they didn't, they would have asked,

Of course they didn't ask because they understood what death was . . .

Agathamari responding to Recognise Today at 05:42:05 PM:


Do you know what a Quark is?  No?  Then why dididn'tou ever ask anyone?  Maybe cause you didnt know it existed? 

Same can be said about death to Adam and Eve

Obalende:

"I did not ask to be created, so I am not responsible for my actions."

It continues - "for had I had a choice, I would have chosen not to be created thereby avoiding sin, temptations, persecutions, sufferings or hell."

Whats your view - support with Bible. Any atheist post will incur divine curses upon the person - this is a respectful healthy debate.

D.pinaku:


S[u]i[/u]ck

D.pinaku:


L[/u]URE

D.pinaku:


privates

l[/u]ick

[u]p[/u]ick

p[u]e[/u]ck

[u]d[/u]eck

[u]n[/u]eck

DaviDylan Yesterday reproduced today by Olabowale]

My church (which I consider very good by biblical standards) is hosting a "trunk and treat" party on halloween.

Its just one more example of how the church is bending over so badly to accomodate the world.

[/quote]

[quote author=Olabowale:


. . . I have been telling you that everything in Christianity is like water,

it takes the shape or form of its container.

See what is happening with the good church by Biblical standard?

The church is not bending over to accomodate the world, rather it is the way it flows.

Will you go, dressing down like "Goliat" or dressing up like "David?"

Halloween parties is full of potential orgies, even before it starts, because everyone is "undercover!"

Deep Sight:


. . . in case you didn't notice, the authour is me.

I am a writer, and i'm into "Faction" - a genre that mixes fact with fiction . . .

Davidylan responding back to Deep Sight :


You did not mix fact with fiction, you simply took facts and distorted them to suit your own warped and fleshly desires . . .

The_Seeker:


@Recognize, are you sane at all?

What are you blabbing about.  Your God is not powerful enough to communicate that he has to become a chicken to talk to chickens.

A true creator is supposed to understand the language of chickens better than chickens.

This trinity thing really turns you guys to retards.

Meanwhile you have still not answered my question.

the_seeker:


Nezan and friends, can any of you explain what jesus meant when he said to his disciples

'I am returning to my Father [/b]and [b]your Father, my God [/b]and [b]your God'

Obalende on Yesterday at 11:17:23 PM]

There is no free will in the Bible.

[/quote]

I was merely responding to your above outburst quote and not deviating from the topic of "I did not ask to be created"

Oba' let me reiterate all over again, I understanding your argument, I really do but there is more than meets the eye. Honestly.

Obalende:


You are insensitive.

It was mean because the man DID NOT ASK TO BE MADE.

Moreover, it was also mean for him to be PREDESTINED TO BE THE BETRAYER. He had no choice.

"You are insensitive? you say.

Arent we all, at some time or the other?

When you bought your present set of shoes, did you get permission from it before picking and buying it.

Would you hesistate in trashing it, the moment it gets past its usefulness.

Please pardon my crude parallel and/or unrefined analogy.

PREDESTINED? Big word and you rightly so typed it in upper cases (i.e. capitals)

Fact. GOD is eternal. He is ELOHIM, He created time. The end and the beginning simultaneously occurs with GOD

He knows the end of a matter from the beginning because with GOD the end and the beginning occurs simultaneously.

BOOM! God saw your conception, all that's in between and death etc at the same time.

With us this is not so because we are subjected to time and the timeline thereof

God saw all decisions made . . .

He saw the good ones, bad ones and the ugly ones we individually made

yet He didnt tip us in the trash can because He has a Get of Hell Jail free card for us

GOD aint mean in allowing creation after seeing creation biting the finger that moulded it - Ref: sees the end & the beginning simultaneously

That aint mean. I think it's called Selflessness

Obalende:


How can uncreated creation moan to be created. Heresy . . .

Oh no its not.

The tree in an apple seed is a creation groaning to be created

Romans 8:11-39 NIV:


Future Glory

    18 I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us.

    19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.

    20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope

    21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

    22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

    23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit,
         groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

    24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?

    25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

    26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, 
         but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.

    27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will.
   
More Than Conquerors

    28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.

    29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

    30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

    31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us?

    32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all— how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?

    33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.

    34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died— more than that, who was raised to life
         — is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

    35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or unclothedness or danger or sword?

    36 As it is written:

                                 For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered. 

    37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.

    38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,

    39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[quote author=Obalende:


Arrant nonsense (not refering to you but to your argument). "oneself" did not ask to be created and testing it is wickedness.

"Experience shapes ones Character, Character determines ones Action. You catch the drift?"

One would have preferred not to exist especially if there was free will.

If I say now "I dont want to exist"; and God truly honored free will like you claim then God would go: "This human doesnt want to exist any more; dust are ye and to dust shall ye return" and simple translate the person back to dust. simple. but He doesnt.

And you give the free will mantra like Mazaje puts it.

I will pose this question to God on judgement day if I am thrown into hell: "WAIT A MINUTE, I NEVER ASKED TO BE MADE!!!" . . .

Abuzola:


The christian God was slapped, beaten, struck and spat, see Matthew 26:67,   

Isaiah 53:4-5 New International Version - UK (NIVUK):


⁴Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.

⁵ But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

mekuslogan:


Sorrow, tears trail Bode George’s conviction
By OLA AGBAJE and FAITH HASSAN
Tuesday, October 27, 2009


Photo: Sun News Publishing
More Stories on This Section

Tears, wailing and anger trailed the conviction of Chief Bode George, on Monday, as his teeming supporters who had come in solidarity with him were full of sorrow and despair.

Indeed, some came in the popular aso-ebi and with drums but their hope of carrying their mentor home in triumph was shattered as the court pronounced the Peoples Democratic Party(PDP) Chieftain and other members of the board of the Nigerian Ports Authority(NPA) guilty as charged.

But for the heavy security presence mounted by the police, the court environment could have been turned into a war zone.

PDP faithful, especially youths, could not hold their temper when Chief George in a spotless white flowing agbada was being led to the waiting prison van around 2.30pm.

However, the vigilant policemen remained calm despite of the tense atmosphere.

On their part, the women burst into uncontrollable tears, rained curses on those responsible for the fate that befell their champion.

Several photo-journalists and reporters had to run for cover when the party loyalists dared them to take pictures of the convicts on their way to the waiting prison van.

One unidentified man was knocked down by hoodlums suspected to be party thugs. A lawyer who was unfortunate was mercilessly beaten as his wigs and gowns were used to wrestle him down in theheavy rain. He was dealt several blows before the police came to rescue him from his assailants.

Justice Olubunmi Oyewole of Lagos high court, Ikeja had found George and the other five defendants guilty on 35 counts of the 68-count charge of conspiracy, contract splitting and inflation preferred against them.

Others convicted and sentenced along with the People Democratic Party (PDP) chieftain include former managing director of NPA, Architect Aminu Dabo, Captain Abidoye, Alhaji Aminu Tafida, Alhaji Zanna Maidaribe and Engineer Sule Aliyu.

Throughout the 14-month trial, supporters had always been coming in droves in their aso-ebi attires.

However, the defence team led by Tunji Ayanlaja (SAN) had indicated the intention to appeal against the judgment and also to seek bail pending appeal for the convicts.

Abuzola:


Paul was a fraud, an arch enemy of Jesus.

Paul declared to be a fool, see 2 corinthians 11:1 and 2 corinthian 11:17

2 Corinthians 12:10-12 Contemporary English Version (CEV):


¹⁰Yes, I am glad to be weak or insulted or mistreated or to have troubles and sufferings,

if it is for Christ. Because when I am weak, I am strong.

¹¹I have been making a fool of myself.

But you forced me to do it, when you should have been speaking up for me.

I may be nothing at all, but I am as good as those super apostles.

¹²When I was with you, I was patient and worked all the powerful miracles and signs and wonders of a true apostle.

chukwudi44:


These question is not meant to belittle the personality of st Paul of tarsus nor his tremendous contribution to christianity.

I just want people to clear the air on the meaning of the word apostle if it can be applied to people outside the twelve chosen by Jesus.

1 Corinthians 1:1 (King James Version):


Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

Galatians 1:1 (King James Version):


Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead

1 Timothy 1:1 (King James Version):


Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

2 Timothy 1:1 (King James Version):


Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

POSAKOSA1:


Pack

Back

Sack

Lack

Recognise:


C[/u]ore

[u]L[/u]ore

[u]F[/u]ore

For[u]k

[u]C[/u]ork

[u]P[/u]ork

P[u]e[/u]rk

D.pinaku:


[u]J[/u]erk

goodass:


perk

just one word!

Obalende:


I use "I" in this argument to present a point of view and not because it affects me personally.

Recognise:

God doesnt intend frog marching you to His Kingdom against your will or with your arms twisted behind your back . . .

Obalende:


There is no free will in the Bible.

Recognise:

Mind you as a matter of fact just as you dont have a say in your creation, GOD too hasnt got a say in where you'll end up

Obalende:


You are of your father the devil. Have I not chosen the Twelve yet one of you is a devil.

[God knew Judas will betray Him that scripture may be fulfilled]. GOD HAS A SAY.

It is equally mean to create beings who risk hell and send them there; whereas if you knew the risk existed, you will not create the beings at all.

You get my point.

Recognise:

That prerogative is yours.

Obalende:


No it is not. And then He shall say to those on His left handside, Depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

The word there is PREPARED.

Recognise:

He knows where you'll end up alright but He wouldnt go against your will (i.e. the choice you have made)

Obalende:


You are one of the free willers.

There is no free will in the Bible. As many as were ordained [not who used their freewill to believe - added by me] to eternal life believed.

Recognise:

Just because stuff is going to end up in the trash can doesnt deter you from putting something scrumptious up in the kitchen, or does it?

Obalende:


You are insensitive to human suffering and pain. Hell was objectively created for a reason

And then He shall say to those on His left handside, Depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. This is those whose names were found not written in the Book of Life.

Now do you Recognise know your name is in the Book Are you sure

Now do you Recognise know your name is in the Book Are you sure

Epiphany:


This has happened before! Another Nigerian - The famous but elusive Deinde Fernandez - has been an ambassador for other countries other than Nigeria. I think he was Central African Republic's ambassador to the UN at one time.

Aloy~Emeka:


Permanent CAR's ambassador to the UN. Why did you use 'elusive' to qualify him?

Epiphany:


I have been hearing about this guy since i was a little boy, in the 80's.

I have been reading newspapers and watching tv but have never seen a picture of him, he is hardly in the news and he generally keeps a low profile - although he was said to be the richest man in Nigeria and/or Africa at one point.

It is not known where he lives, if he has kids, is married etc etc. He is like an enigma

Abuzola:


'Had We (ALLAH) intended to take a pastime (i.e wife or son), We could surely have taken it from Us, if We were going to do (that)' Quran 21:17

Obalende:


@ Recognise

I have a say because I did not ask to be created and I am being threatened with HELL.

A lot has gone on which I wont go into before posting to.

There is nothing like crossing boundaries - I refuse to be scared. If God doesnt want me to think for myself then He should take away my mind. But just a brief:

1.) Condition of attaining heaven is belief in Jesus Christ - right? WRONG. Apparently, only those who endure to the end and those whose names were written AND REMAIN in the Lambs Book of Life will be saved.

2.) Recently a recent popular MOG (name withheld) gave a sermon that baffled me.

On how the Book of Life was written before the foundation of the world and how the apostles only went into cities to preach the gospel to bring ONLY those foreknown by God to salvation.

And that as soon as all those whose names were written in that Book are saved, the trumpet blows; and on how only a SMALL REMNANT FEW make it to heaven.

I deduce from the last phrase that many are those who think they were Christians who will be disappointed when denied entrance to the kingdom.

Now this is the thrust of my argument - why then bother with creation when you knew some are destined for Hell

- dont go on about how I am man and God is God as that does not provide answers.

thnx.

Abuzola:


Don't get me provoke

Abuzola:


I give thanks to God am a muslim and not a cross worshipper, wow, i thank God o

Atheists:


Do you have empirical evidence to show us that  the spiritual world actually exists?

Do you even have empirical evidence to show that humans have a spirit ?

Atheists:


I should be judged based on my deeds not what l believes only.

Deep Sight:


Has it occurred to you that the Garden of Eden was not a physical place on this planet?

Recognise:


Some things are kept hidden, for the same reasons matches are kept from children's sight and/or reach.

Atheists:


Where is the garden of eden then ?

Deep Sight:


^^^ It was in the Spiritual. Not in the world of matter at all.

KunleOshob:


I don't agree with this your repeated assertion in my opinion,

I believe the true story of the garden of Eden has been distorted through centuries of oral tradition.

The bible made it clear it was a physical location on earth by describing it as a place where four rivers meet.

Three of this rivers are still in existence today and are in present day Iraq.

I am also of the opinion that the eden story might not necessarily be that of creation alone but that of civilization. A time God revealed himself to mankind.

Deep Sight:


^^^ Fair enough . . .

but be warned that the mere fact that earthly rivers are mentioned does not mean it was on earth.

This is because earthly landmarks such as mountains, rivers, etc often have spiritual counterparts, much in the same way as physical man has a spirit.