₦airaland Forum

You forget OIL & Natural Gas. And many minerals. Ivory coast basically has cocoa beans and they do a great job with it. Nigeria is a jungle - that individualism is because the systems have failed - and it's basically survival for the fittest.

vaxx:
why i am not not please with Nigeria is simply because it has more potential to developed than any African state. it has the human resources, vital land for agriciltural work , lots of sun light and many more . yet , it is still where it is today.

i can comfortably says Ghanaian are richer than Nigeria .There is a high inequality rate in Nigeria . almost 90% of the country’s wealth is owned by some few rich men with questionable sources of wealth. Ghana may not have the likes of Dangote, Adenuga, Saraki, etc but on the average, Ghanaians are richer than Nigerian. One think I admire so much about Nigeria is the high sense of individualism where everyone is looking for an opportunity to take advantage of the fellow evrn with this, it shouild not be too much .

Nairobi metro extends more than 60Kms radius from Nairobi. Konza is 60kms east of Nairobi. Lagos is semi-circle around Atlantic sea. Don't think Nairobi is small. The Nairobi city as defined by 1963 boundaries is what goes for Nairobi County.

68816419:
Ikeja (Lagos mainland Capital )

Ikeja distance from Victoria island = 1 h 27 min (25.2 km) via A1
IKEJA DISTANCE FROM LEKKI= 2 h 1 min (46.3 km) via Lekki - Epe Expy

Yes - that was a lost decade for Ivory Coast. The sick nation in west africa is Nigeria.

vaxx:
ivory coast has a lot of high rise building and many beautiful park as well. they suffer a little set back due to the post election civil war. but they are back on their track now.

Ghana is really trying. Very proud of Ghanians. I suspect also Ivory Coast is not doing badly in West Africa.

vaxx:
Accra regional hospital

Nigeria with WORLD WORST GDP to Tax ratio teaching kenya how to collect taxes and revenues!

Give it up already. There is nothing Nigeria or Lagos can teach Kenya in anything serious - maybe music, soccer & nollywood. If I go ahead to dissect what 75B naira (around 200M) that is classified as other-tax in Lagos (forget about the miniscule taxes you collect as a state) - and we can see if Lagos can even collect that much money from parking fees, land rates and single business license.

Heed Bill Gates advice. Nigeria will NOT develop without paying Taxes.

68816419:
Nairobi-ans and Kenyans can learn some thing from this or at least Mike Sonko should come down to Lagos and learn how to generate revenue .

Nairobi county’s revenue collection has been declining drastically since Governor Mike Sonko took office in August 2017.

According to the county’s revenue collection performance for 2017-18, collection stands at Sh10.1 billion, a decrease compared to Sh11.3 billion for the 2016-17 financial yea r.

The report, currently with the assembly’s budget office, reveals that in 2017-18, the county’s five major internal revenue streams failed to meet their targets and have all decreased, compared to 2016-17.

In 2017-18, parking fees stood at Sh1.88 billion, followed by rates at Sh1.87 billion, single business permits (SBP) at Sh1.7 billion, billboards and adverts at Sh698.05 million, and building permits at Sh49 .41 million.

During Governor Evans Kidero’s regime in 2016-17, parking fees were at Sh1.98 billion, rates Sh2.26 billion, SBP at Sh1.7 billion, billboards and adverts at Sh720 million, and building permits at Sh1.28 billion.

City Hall is set to lower the daily downtown parking fees from Sh300 to Sh200 in attempt to increase revenue collection. (Meaning no hope for kenyan's capital any time soon )

In 2013, Kidero increased parking fees from Sh140 to Sh300 but during election campaigns last year, Sonko pledged to reinstate it to Sh140, which has not happened.

According to the 2018-19 County Fiscal Strategy Paper (CFSP) released early this year, Nairobi has not hit its revenue target since 2013 by between 20 and 25 per cent.

For the last four financial years, billboards and advertising has been the best performing revenue stream as per set targets, while building permits have been relatively poor.

Land rates have been persistently the largest revenue stream, generating Sh10.27 billion over the last four financial years.

Poor collection mechanisms, poor rates records and inadequate enforcement are some of the challenges the land rates sector faces.

High default rate on payments, weak enforcement mechanisms and slow pace of devolution of the SBP have been blamed for its poor performance.

The SBPs are issued for enterprises under The City of Nairobi (Licensing of Premise and Traders By-Laws 2007 ) that wish to operate within the limits of Nairobi city.

https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/2018/09/10/city-revenue-collection-declining_c1815817

Fuel is not cheap. Slightly cheaper now after VAT was added to Kenya. There is huge disparity in prices because there are no price controls.

What is cheap in Uganda is anything they grow or manufacture internally. Anything imported is more expensive than Kenya - because of the freight cost from Mombasa port.

Food,beer,education, manufactured goods (albeit of lower quality than Kenya) are way cheaper - esp with Kshs ever strengthening against UGX.

Labour is ridiculously cheaper - generally half the cost you'd incur in kenya.

tylann:
Cost of life in kenya is expensive
Fuel prices in Uganda are very low
Kenyans pay almost double what ugandans pay for fuel
Funny enough kenya has the highest number of motor vehicle owners in this region

I hope hii mwaka mungu anibariki pia nishike vitz
Kupanda matatu inachokesha walahi

4 or 6. They are 43, 35, 33, 31, 31, 29 flours.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4856/45475519374_d94b2559bc_o.jpg
Nairobi is on steroids - if we get Pinnacle, Montave and other big ones in Upperhill - then joburg has to be worried - because Nairobi really is positioning itself to be Africa Capital.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1931/31305020637_b47991eb5d_o.jpg

Jonraid:
Can't wait for those four towers to get done!

More of Westland
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7824/46958831241_62dbc3664c_o.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4888/46958909841_3e21fa5260_o.jpg

Another great shot of Nairobi - showing old CBD at background - amid a real estate boom that is just getting started.

Here comes the moral support. It pretty simple - help us find how much Lagos collect from land rates, parking fees and single license permit. I know you're trying the usual refuge of a scoundrel. Ad hominem.

obaaderemi:
What else do you want,man? Even fellow Little Indians can see how you've buried RIP in facts. He's just hanging on for sheer pride.

Yes south africa just miles ahead.

kikuyu1:
That's not a convo I'm entering at this point:maybe 2030 or 2032. Useless arguments aren't my style.

sufferNsmiling:
You are totally shameless you are comparing 180 million people to 25 million people and you are very happy. The 25 million people are trying please have some shame

They are at their element against Ghana. A very progressive nation.

Definitely. The prices need to come down.That is gov intervention. It about economies of scales.

mtisTheQubit:
But what about the middle class ones like the one in kitengela or syokimau going btw 15 to 20 ms..is it going to have any impact on their prices

I thought we had gone through that already and established the baseline . You see upto 65% is PAYE - Nairobi doesn't do PAYE. We have also another 12 taxes including road tax, revenues from Abuja federal account. Those don't count.

Yes 20% is what Lagos collects as rates, fees, and such...and that is comparable to what we allow counties here in kenya to collect.

NIGERIANS NIGERIANS.

Wait until I dissect the 20% before shouting murder.

68816419:
I have never seen a stupid lying matching like u, so, we are now comparing 20% of what lagos generates from its taxes streams(still far larger than what your entire country generated) and yet Nairobi county also generates in over 170 taxes streams.

You mean ederman Ngara project. I think that is expensive. They had to buy land. But Uhuru is talking 1m for 1 bedroom, 2m for 2 bedroom and 3m for 3 bedroom - mostly on tenant purchasing - like in Nairobi highrise and Nyayo hse. Houses in Moi era were so cheap - I know civil servants drivers and tea girls - who got themselves houses in NHC. That is what we need back. Everyone in Nairobi should avoid a cheap house.

mtisTheQubit:
Truth be told am really exited about ths an the impact its going to have on the local real estate..am speculating on the prices...I still believe the current prices still high... any comment on that

I know you'd shift the goalpost unable to confront facts.First accept what pass as other-tax is what Nairobi and our counties are allowed to levy.

Now just like Nairobi is the king of the kenya jungle.Lagos similarly is the king of the Nigeria jungle.

Trust me all the rest of Nigeria states - non-tax revenues ( I am talking small fees from rates, parking fees, and single license permit) - are about less than what Lagos collect.

Typical Nigerian twisting,turning and generally tying himself in knots rather than face the TRUTH.

68816419:
Fool u shot your self on the foot.
hahaha the so called "Non-tax (other revenue) which u put at 20% is still larger than what all your counties generated internally .
" The 47 counties collected a total of Sh24.7 billion( $ 240 M) between July 2016 and March this year compared to Sh25.9 billion realised over a similar period a year earlier, data by the Treasury shows."

https://www.nation.co.ke/business/Counties--revenue-collection-dips-by-Sh1-2bn/996-4117070-15q6eio/indexbillion

Yes it should be moved somewhere - where there is enough land to build a really big mega farmers market. I am sure Nairobi County has land somewhere in Ruai - that can host a really serious wholesale farmers market. National gov probably need to chip in. Of course they wasted money build farmers market all over kenya that were abandoned. Under the stimulus package.

mtisTheQubit:
or just move it to another location (a little bit far)

Underwhelming. Done with 2015 & 2016. If you still insist we can try 2017 & 2018. It appears for 2015 - Lagos made around 200M from what Nairobi County is allowed to levy. In 2016 - the figures drop to around 120M - that is around the figures Nairobi made or less. Nairobi under previous governor who was gorging resident eyes made 130M(13B kshs). This new governor has slashed business permit fees by 50%, reduced parking fees from 3 dollars to 2 dollars and revenues are down to 12B Kshs (12B kshs).

68816419:
can't wait bro, make sure u get the latest figures and I promise you shall have mental shift on how you knw Lagos.hahah

Comparing apples with apples. Nairobi and Lagos - other "taxes".
Lagos
2015 - 200M dollars - 75B Naira - Kshs 20B
2016 - half year of 58M dollars(5.8Kshs - 21B Naira) - the recession was so hard and there was no oil windfall.

You can bet in 2016 - Nairobi county collect more revenues from rates/fees/license than LAGOS - the 20M strong slumpolis.

We will hunt figures for 2017 and 2018 shortly
http://yourbudgit.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/LAGOS-STATE-DATA-BOOK.pdf

Here we go with MegaSlumPolis.IGR - majority is PAYE - Lagos is allowed to levy 12 taxes - Personal Income Tax,Withholding Tax (from individuals only), Capital Gains Tax (individuals only) and Stamp Duties - PAYE alone constitute nearly half of all IGR.

On average, 64.8% of IGR for Lagos statecame from PAYE between 2010 and 2016.

We are not interested in that.Nairobi PAYE would be crazy figure but they are not allowed to levy it.

Lagos States - IGR (2015 I think) - Non-tax (other revenues) -roughly 20% of IGR - 75B naira - roughly 20B Kshs - roughly 200M.

So before we even proceed we can compare Lagos 200M against 130M - for around the same period.

References:http://yourbudgit.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/LAGOS-STATE-DATA-BOOK.pdf

Depends. Let me try now. Hold your breath.

68816419:
how long would it takes u to find what lagos generates from those five revenue streams and compare them with Nairobi?

Yes they need to really re-generated the whole of that place all the way to Jericho. I think this is part of Uhuru Housing Agenda. Turn over all that land to Chinese...so they can build modern housing and estates.

tylann:
Muthurwa market should be nuked that place needs to be nuked from existence that place is filthy

We would have gotten there long time ago but you keep raising superfluous issues and I have to first breakdown basic concepts to you before I go find LAGOS revenues breakdown. That is why this thread is long. Nigeria are so bone-headed - if kenyans were engaging each other - then you can be sure people easily get complex concepts. Nigeria - ohoo boy.

68816419:
so have you now accepted the fact that Lagos have better revenue in those five areas of your Nairobi revenue streams?
If not prove me wrong by providing "Google searched" links to support ur claims?

Isn't most of it really road and riparian reserves. Gov should not legalize such illegalities. Yes I think they are re-building the part that was razed down to be a bit modern. Umoja had a big farmers market - constructed as part of expansion of outer-ring road.

tylann:
How about gikomba market i heard they were constructing it ama tu ni chocha za kawaida

Awesome. I thought it was a dam after they seem to abandoned constructions. I also see the curios market down there is gone. Nairobi need to put up modern markets. Marikiti should cease to exist and Gikomba should be razed down. Then you got flirty on the street markets of Kangemi, Githurai. Those needs to be proper farmers market.

Kenyanstar:
KENYA
MODERN PUBLIC MARKET
Construction of the new Westlands market situated near Oil-libya that is at 85% complete. It will be exclusively for SME's(Small medium enterprises)

Nairobi & all kenya counties are not allowed to levy a penny of taxes. When that registered through your thick nigerian bonehead - we can go to revenue stream comparisons. Lagos makes most of it's money from PAYE - personal income tax.

DO we need to define what tax is and is not. Even national gov of kenya distinguish btw taxes - and stuff like fines levied by judiciary (AIA).

It very hard for you guys to get basic concept because you gov spend very little on your education and you ended up a slowpoke basically.

68816419:
Can you please try to be a truthful matching for once instead of what you r known for.? hahah

Nairobi county has 178 revenue streams with the top five being land rates, parking fees, single business permits, building permits, billboards and adverts (same as Lagos). so the county generates revenue from all other revenue streams and is not constraint to any tax at all, The only issues with your tax systems is the massive corruption associated with it and nothing else,your previous adminstration earned far more revenue than the current guys but the reverse has been for Lagos.
lagos taxes systems was very bad some 16 years back but now improving massively.

Please Go through the graph below and tell me if your country and not nairobi could catch up with Lagos in taxation IGR knowing fully well of the mega states/private project under construction in the state , projects such as Dangote refinery,Lekki free trade, deep sea ports, light rail, Brt expansion, New ports , New cities (orange island,eco Atlantic....) and many more.
Its virtually impossible for kenya and Nairobi to catch up with Lagos in the next 200 years.

Africa time will come. Nigeria though is cursed in a way. How can you explain them hitting oil jackpot at same time with middle east and remaining as poor as Niger or Chad. Botswana definitely made it's diamond count.

mtisTheQubit:
Pity they were doing that while part of Africa was already developed in a way..i saw a documentary on UAE an was extremely interesting. Sometimes I don’t know whether to go with Kikuyu conspiracies or just say Africa is cursed is a way..

No one reason can explain why Africa is poor.I think the best I can think about is Africa is poor because it's poor. Everyone began poor. Then countries make effort to grow richer and better. Some African countries are slowly becoming richer and better. Malayasia was very poor until recently. UAE and whole of middle east was poor as lates as 1950s - the only economic activity there was raising camels. Nobody knew that behind the dry desert laid lakes of oil buried underground.

Some countries grow richer quickly by hitting a mega jackpot of natural resources. Others have to work their butt and slowly crawl out of poverty.Some few countries somehow manages to grown rich and then poor again.

mtisTheQubit:
Questions questions questions…
Africans answer ths:
1. Why is Malaysian (an extreme religions country )ahead of shhle Africa
2. why is UAE guys who practice Wahhabism is ahead of sht Africa…
3. Why North Ireland ..guys who got gang membership based on whether catholic or protestant are ahead of ah Africa.
4. why is Nigeria who got oil an religion can’t compare with Saudi peeps.
5. Why is Sub-Sahara down there compared to more religions north Africans..

I highly doubt religion is the course of poverty in Africa..Lets just say we lazy bums..
Look at Kenya .Tribalism precedes religion (have seen niggaz lynch other church members coz they belong to the wrong tribe).Same as Rwanda. Nothing there was about religion..
I am highly tempted to go genetics on the matter of Africa development.

I think we are yet to reach that conclusion yet. Nairobi county is constrained to tax. Therefore we can only compare what Nairobi is allowed to collect and see how it measures to your mega slumpolis. I'll get there with help of google.

As regards Nigeria and Kenya. You can sum up your states IGR and Federal IGR - and compare it Kenya National & County Budget.

I have done it - and roughly - even with Oil - Nigeria revenues are about equal to Kenya.

Which is such a shame considering your gov revenues gathers for nearly 200M people.

68816419:
Firstly- do you now accept the fact lagos tax systems is far more robust than that of Nairobi, reasons been that its generates far more revenue in land charges,advertisements and others forms of taxation. If not you Can still go ahead in providing "Google searched" figures.?.
secondly - how much do you think lagos alone (and other states) generates from its IGR and not from federal ports,federal Airports, federal roads, Federal electricity other federal government sources of income .?
Man , u must be insane to compare Kenya with lagos and not even Nigeria at a large.

There will be institutions to make sure trade works and is fair for everyone. That would include some forms of courts to deal with contracts, insurances and etc. Ultimately every country would be allowed to do joint verification if they think some was re-packagign and re-badging Chinese goods - and gaining duty free access.

Ultimately NO SERIOUS MANUFACTURING will happen if a manufacturer is targeting a small country. But if a manufacturer knew he could manufacture his stuff in Nairobi - and sell to 50 countries in Africa - they will come.

Smaller countries will benefit the most - because they really don't have good enough market for local production - but with free trade - a big chinese manufacturer can set up a factory in Kigali and sell it to DRC Congo duty free.

Jonraid:
Uganda inspected and later allowed our confectioneries products to pass without duty,but Tanzania is the one playing hardball!

It indeed a combination of jealousy and stupidity that has seen them yearly attempt to stiffle trade - except when nobody wants to buy their maize, beans and cashew nuts - and they have to rush to Kenya.

tylann:
Jealous stupidity( Tanzania ) trade protectionism is what is killing intra African trade
African countries will rather trade with Asian countries but not other African countries
But Kenya doesn't care we just bought half of Tanzania's cashew nuts