₦airaland Forum

There is only one of ex-president - and this cost of democracy -so leaders dont hang into office illegally.

The pension and related benefits apply to every gov parastal and they are taxable. Of course it more than Nigeria - because everyone in kenya earn three times what Nigeria do - policeman, teacher, nurse, army guy.

And now for Uhuru is already started work as peace envoy - although he is a failure domestically - maybe he can help

obaaderemi:
African leaders and their insane privileges in the midst of crushing poverty and biblical level suffering. This is even worse than Nigeria:

How did I even argue with a baboon like you for that long in stuff you can barely understand.

obaaderemi:
Will you ever for goodness sake stop lying!
And yes, no law says they can't keep the money unless they declared a profit. If there's any, kindly post it here.

Kenyans are law abiding citizen. In South Africa - and elsewhere - Tanzania are tagging along Nigerians - selling drugs.

Kazikazi:
UAE bans africans......
But what baffles me is how kenya is missing on a list


http://www.channelafrica.co.za/sabc/home/channelafrica/news/details?id=ce26b8d9-1f5b-4b42-8ed9-d109ca948d5f&title=UAE%20slams%20visa%20ban%20on%20all%20citizens%20of%20Nigeria,%20Ghana,%2017%20other%20African%20countries

They soon will not afford to buy bread leave alone internet bundles

obaaderemi:
The Ghanaians seem so quiet these days.

You are still expecting a bullet train - Those start at 250kms per hour.

Kazikazi:
Tanzania's shithole trains are on a way coming from Korea


I miss magufuli.

Dont get lost in details.
Airtel - got the subscriber - and from what I have seen they paid 100M dollars ( I total deal was 120M dollars) - that is I am telling even if you stripped Telkom of everything - it's 4 million subscribes - 4 times - would be worth 400M dollars.
Secondly understand BASIC financial accounting for god sake.
Kenya Gov has always been a shareholder of Telkom.
Kenya Gov started with 100% -it "invested" about 600M dollars to basically clean it up - this was mostly foregoing taxes and other such things.
Then it sold 51% of it to Orange - for 26B - dollars 350M plus then in 2007.
It got a premium of 6B (more than what Helios are paying in 2022 ) - because the 51% stake was valued at 20B kshs.
Again slowly - Orange started complaining that Kenya gov had lied to them.
They came up with restructuring plan - where each shareholder was to finance it - it had chalked up 48B Kshs in debt.
Kenya gov was to raise 49% of that - Orange 51%. This right issue - shareholders bring in more capital.
kenya gov "forgot" about it - Orange brought in another 300M dollars
The Loan to Telkom was therefore converted - their shareholding increase from 51 percent to 70%.
Again the were unhappy - as company was hopeless - Safaricom is behemoth.
They started looking for NEXT BIG FOOL.
In comes Helios - willing to pay 500-600M dollars. Orange told them they will even loan them money and arrange with European Investment Bank.
Helios dived in.But to stop kenya pre-emptive rights - they seceded 10 percent shareholding.
They found the same bankrupt company
They arrange for Telkom to take couple of loans - and keep it going.
Bankrupt again - shareholders - another restructuring plan - for 20B - say 200M dollars.
Kenya gov only gave 2.5B - it wasnt enough - so it was decided to sell assets- to offset liabilites - NOT to declare profit

Now long story short - sold for laughable 50M dollars.

Understand BASIC FUNDAMENTAL HIGH SCHOOL ACCOUNTING.

There are only two ways Helios could have made money from Telkom 1) Dividend 2) CAPITAL GAINS - when they eventually sold their shareholding. There is no evidence Telkom has ever made profit leave alone declared dividends. Kenya gov would declare the same as revenues to public kitty.

Even if Telkom sold everything - until it declares Profit After Tax - Helios were never going to get that money. Unless they corruptly participated in sale of assets....say undervalue the assets and engage in corruption. I doubt they'd dare do that. The fines they can get in London would kill them.

obaaderemi:
You know you really need to stop lying! Airtel and Safaricom paid$100m for YuMobile. It wasn't Safaricom that sold YuMobile to Airtel. It was a joint bid.

You either don't know anything about what's going on in your country or you are lying. That Telkom deal was a mistake on your government's part from the very beginning. They're just wasting poor Kenyan taxpayers money. Did you know your government gave all manners of shareholders loans to that company even though it held not more than 40% of the company. The foreign owners kept going back to your Treasury for financing and they kept getting it! Let me start with Orange. I'm beginning to think Orange kind of gave that company to Helios or asked the Nigerians for very little.
Happy reading:

https://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/tea/news/east-africa/telkom-a-textbook-case-of-privatisation-deal-gone-bad--1307654
Up to this year your silly government was still giving shareholders loans to Helios, a company that stopped investing in telkom since 2019. I told you, that $50m was just a bonus to the Nigerians. Probably your politicians are using Telkom to steal money in collaboration with these foreign partners.

You know nothing about Telcommunication. Let give example Yu a mobile provider had 1 million subscribers - it was sold for 100M dollars to Airtel - after it was stripped of Base Stations (sold to Safaricom).

Now Telkom kenya has nearly 4 million and control about 20% of kenya internet market. That is worthy close to 500M in my estimate. That value of its 4 million customers.

Helios got played. They helped sustained Telkom (they took loans including 40M dollars from , cleaned up it balance sheet (by selling assets to clear liablities - as we speak now I think they dont owe gov in tax areas & license fee).

They tried to sell it to Airtel - but gov blocked it over "security concerns" - and eventually gov got it for almost free - by pre-empting the sale- 50M dollars is free useless money in Telcommunication. Helios paid 600M dollars for this.

One switch is close to 10-20M dollar - ask Nokia or Erickson or Huawei. 50M in telecommunication for whopping 60% stake is give away.

If today Telkom decide to close shop - and sell it's 4 million subscribers - that is clean 400M dollars using Yu valuation - YU sold about a million subscribers to Airtel - and sold the base stations to Safaricom

https://www.eib.org/en/projects/pipelines/all/20170635

obaaderemi:
Getting $50m for a rust bucket you have looted out is a big deal. Helios really should be investigated. How can you, since 2019, stop investing in a company that continues to generate revenue?

Investment can either be through own savings or by leveraging other people savings by borrowing. Kenya for the last 10yrs has been doing a lot of borrowing cheap chinese money and some expensive Eurobonds.

Lack of savings is not lack of investment.

But obviously you soon hit a wall with borrowing (Ghana is good example) - and now kenya has to rebalance the economy by growing capital markets, pensions, insurances and whole of that investment spaces - and get more Helios venture /equity funds.

Helios have invested 1 billion dollars plus in kenya - and we didnt have to borrow - they came, they saw, invested, made profit or losses, and left

obaaderemi:
Nowhere did I say they were the same. But one impacts the other. If savings are low, other aspects are affected.

Buying any telkom company even without any asset for 50M is a steal.
That is why gok exercised their pre-emptive right.
Safaricom just paid 850M to be allowed in Ethiopia.
Telcom are big deal...and this one as long as it still going concern...is huge bargain.

obaaderemi:
You always resort to insults when you are losing.
Why would they not sell the scrap back when they already sucked it dry? Kenyas government is just stupid, wasting taxpayers money. $50m for a company with little tangible assets left? That's thievery.

About the 4g license, this is one of the nonsense you said:

Then out of desperation, you backed it up with a 2007 article talking about something else.

You were either lying or you don't seem to know much about stuff going on in your country.

They are not the same.
One is consumption (many mouths to feed like Nigeria) - so you need to produce and sell lots of stuff.
The other is saving & investment ( Saudi Arabia, Namibia, Norway).
Namibia is a small country but with very deep savings and pension system.
Kenya has fallen behind 10yrs on capital/saving/pensions- and has even been overtaken by Uganda.
This what Ruto gov is keen to fix.

Consumer goods versus Capital goods.

obaaderemi:
Fact is Nigeria is doing better than Kenya in that aspect. And what is retail and industrialization without a good financial market?

Sounds baboon grunting to me. Only a desperate investor would sell it back to Kenya gov. I dont remember saying 4G license is 300M - I said 50M is small money because licensing alone in Telcom in sector is a lot of money.

In the meantime basic financial accounting knowledge would do you a lot of good rather than usual baboon like grunting.

obaaderemi:
All this repetitive bullshit is unnecessary if you weren't lying from the beginning. Where did I say Helios bought telkom Kenya from Kenyan government? What is it with little Indians and lying?

I had to let you know what 4g license costs in your country. You didn't even know but was arguing blindly as usual. Now I'm asking you for a source to defend your claim that Helios paid your stupiid government$300m for a 4g license. I bet you can't. Just say you made a mistake. We're already used to your errors and lies.

Secondly all reports point to the fact that Helios sold those assets and your government got nothing. Until you can come up with evidence that your government actually got something from that deal. For your information, Telkom Kenya was making good money but no profit. There's a difference between revenue and profit. The revenue was going on salaries. The Nigerians retrenched several workers, stopped spending money on the useless company as far back as 2019, sold off its assets, then dumped it into Ruto's laps and still got $50m for their flight out of Nairobi.
Again, just like the RCC deal, Nigerians outsmarted you little Indians.

Their demand is stuck at 20m. Kenya has hit 10M. They should be doing 40m at least to be on same per capita consumption. Dangote has made cement almost 3 times the global average. Kenya cement is almost twice international average and has been falling or stuck because of intense competition. Ideally cement should be sold for dirty cheap - like 2-3 dollars per 50bag - not nearly 10 dollars like nigeria - or 5-6 like Kenya.

Case - The monthly average retail price for Portland cement in Egypt was 45.14 Egyptian pounds (2.87 U.S. dollars) per sack.

Wuoche:
Half or twice?

Dangoteland buys cement at 250 percent above global average because they must do insane import substitution.The result cement consumption stuck at 20 million metric tonnes which will be half Kenya demand at 10 million metric tonnes this year https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/nigeria-raps-dominance-large-cement-firms-hampering-economy-2021-04-21/

Mpesa - moves almost 300B dollars in a year - almost 3 times kenya GDP.
It grew whopping 34% in a year - and Safaricom made a billion dollars from it.
Payment merchants now nearly 0.5M.
Fuliza - mobile overdraft facility - reached 5 billion dollars
Diaspora Remittance - nearly 4 billion dollars -36.6 percent increase

In the 2022 Sustainability Report, Safaricom has revealed that a total of Sh29.55 trillion was transacted on M-Pesa in its financial year to March 2022, as customers and revenues grew.
https://nation.africa/kenya/business/m-pesa-moved-eight-times-the-value-of-the-country-s-budget-in-2022-report-shows-3991504

A 34 per cent growth in the value transacted through the platform compared to the Sh22 trillion Kenyans transacted on M-Pesa during the previous year, revenues from the platform also shot up by 30.4 per cent to see Safaricom earn Sh107.7 billion from the product created 15 years ago.

For a hilly country I wonder why they cant go big on build hydro-dams. Besides Kenya I think is Rwanda biggest investor and trading partner. Kagame opening up for business has really helped. Equity are building a huge skycrapper now there. Rwanda seem like good testing ground before you enter DRC and french speaking countries.

kikuyu1:
Thanks! The much vaunted Kagameland pays 23 cents US per unit of power? Who'd have thought!?

According to USDA - there has almost be no change in official imports - about 2 million metric tonnes - with production at 5million. Maybe what is off the market is the smuggled rice?
https://apps.fas.usda.gov/PSDOnline/CircularDownloader.ashx?year=2022&month=02&commodity=Grain

Shaytun:
Thai Rice Exporters Association in their reports indicated that Nigeria’a RICE IMPORTS from Thailand FELL by 98.4% to 15metric tonnes between Jan - July,2022 as against 957 metric tonnes imported in 2021.

The corruption perception index - look kenya has improved - but police corruption is still drag it own. Nigeria also improves.

Ghana is gone - it now approaching 14 cedis to a dollar - there was small lull over the weekend - but hyperinflation bells are ringing.

They started last month on 24th sept at 10 - now it 14 cedis to a dollar - that sounds very close to hyperinflation.

Hyperinflation occurs when the prices of goods and services rise more than 50% per month. At that rate, a loaf of bread could cost one amount in the morning and a higher one in the afternoon. Hyperinflation is very rare

kikuyu1:
The difference between us and Waffas! The ksh has lost 7% in the same time their currency has had a 100% fall - while we're all concerned these mofos are in denial!

Financial markets. There is big difference with your flea market. The chart has nothing to do with retail or wholesale market or industrial good market. It FINANCIAL market - pension, bonds, insurance, etc.

obaaderemi:
Check the charts again.

Look like the strawman arguments.
Helios never bought anything from kenya gov.
They bought from Orange.
They gave kenya gov 10% free shareholding and have sold it for 50m dollars.
In telcommunication - 50m dollars is paper change - it's not money.
Telcom need many license - 2G, 3G, 4G, 5G - and each cost serious money.

Again if Helios made money from selling Base Station to American Towers - GoK made 40% of it.

Nobody has made money from Telkom Kenya for the last 30yrs. It has been bankrupt for donkey years.

It owes KRA lots of taxes, it pensioners lots of money, and name it.

Telkom history start far - when there was no mobile telcom - and they had thousands of stuff - under what was called KPTC.

I interned there for one afternoon - in a huge printing house - I didnt return the following day as I was required to formally apply .

KPTC - was split to Posta and Telkom Kenya. The mobile arm became Safaricom. Safaricom was owned and started by Telkom - but Kenya Treasury made it the golden goose that lay golden eggs.

Telkom kenya was left for morons like Helios and Orange. Safaricom remain the dominant player that is impossible to dislodge in kenya market. Kenya gov owned 60 percent of it; Vodafone 35%; Moi & crooks got 5%; now after IPO it's 35% for Gok; Vodafone/vodacom 40%; other investors 25%.

And Telkom is back 100% after stupid french and nigerian-helios kept it a float for 15yrs - crazy stuff. Now they just need to buy off Airtel.

obaaderemi:
It's interesting to see providing a simple link to back up your claim is very hard or let me say impossible for you to do. Why? Because it's not available. Number two: you claimed 4G license cost $300m in Kenya, I told you it's just $24m and you can even pay that in 10years. And you are here accusing someone of poor education. You are a joke. A functional illiterate. Are we going to continue schooling little Indians for free here?
This is from a Kenyan source:


https://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/tea/business/government-helios-scale-down-investment-in-telkom-kenya-1413096

Helios raped them silly in little India.

How is this related to industrialization?
This is about financial markets - Absa Africa Financial Markets Index
Kenya capital, pension and savings - has gone down - the last 10yrs - as gov was busy taking easy chinese loans and euorobond.
Ruto is starting to fix this - as we now focus on savings, pension and financial/capital markets development.

obaaderemi:
Kenya's market depth and the power of their local investors are very low. Behind everyone on this thread. Useless country in terms of industrialization.

Your gov really did a number on you - no wonder many Nigerian just fly abroad for proper re-education.
Orange bought Telkom Kenya - for 390M - (Kshs 26B) in 2007 - for 51 percent stake.
Kenya gov retained 49 percent stake.
Later Orange realized they had been sold a lemon...the list of asset/debt concealed.
By 2010 - Orange Kenya (Telkom) - had chalked up 48B (500M plus dollar) in debt.
Orange started a diplomatic row claiming kenya gov had conned them - and they wanted their money back.
Kenya gov convinced them to inject more capital.
Over the course of years - Orange kept injecting more capital - kenya gov generally refused or just put in small money
Therefore, Kenya gov shareholding went down to 30% - and Orange went up to 70% (debt converted to equity)

Mid 2014 - Orange were done - and wanted to cut losses.
Veitnamse were willing to come in - but wanted GoK to secede more shareholding - so they own 80% - and many conditions.
GoK refused.

Helios then came onboard. They paid the French 50B kshs (according to StandardMedia article)
They also gave kenya gov 10% free shareholding - so GoK would not pre-empt their purchase.

Now the shareholding became 40% gov; 60% Helios.

Telkom Kenya remained on the red.
The Assets that were sold were to offset debt to Kenya gov in taxes, Safaricom, suppliers name it.
Helios never cashed it. Kenya gov would similarly have cashed it for their own 40% of it.
At some point Helios wanted to invest another 20B kshs - to keep it going - but Gok refused to invest
They decided to merge with Airtel Kenya - another loss making telcom.
Last minute gov refused - and vetoed the merger on "security" grounds.

Last year Helios told the GoK they were looking for a buyer - to exit.

Kenya gov pulled their pre-emptive right to buy it back - and gave helios 50M cheque to go crying with it.

Lesson for Helios...avoid getting entangled in such public assets. You'll cry real tears.

obaaderemi:
You always prove people here right that you are very dull. Just look at the nonsense I bolded. "Rumoured". No wonder you couldn't provide any meaningful link.

How can an investment house buy a loss making company for$600m and sell for $50m? From all indication Orange bought it for around $300m and you expect Helios to pay $600m for it. The deal was not merely between Orange and Helios. The company meant something to your foolish Treasury. It advanced all kinds of loans to Helios which the latter happily took and still pushed some of its debt unto Treasury in as equity.

Then Helios went ahead and sold off all valuable assets of Telkom. And at the end of the day, Foolish Ruto still paid the Nigerians $50m.

You are like the proverbial man who was hit seven times with a club and then pretended like he wasn't hurt, got into his closet and started crying when alone. That's you. I know that Helios thing really pains you, just like the RCC thing you cried here about. All this long story can be avoided if you could only provide a link to show how much Helios paid for that scrap. Keep repeating the lie, I'm here always to bust you.

It's criminal to overstay your visa.

theenchanter:
sources said they overstay their visa but one nonentity in +254 said criminality is the cause....

Kwantinue, na u kuku dey post am.

West Africa criminality catches up with them in Dubai - now genuine visa applicants will have a problem

When is last time you held a census.

obaaderemi:
6.5 to 5.5 is zero drop? Kenyan education is a mess.

With all you Nigeria miseducation - you still can't research - even when I have given you articles. You want to be spoonfed?
Helios Fund III - HQ at Nairobi - was at one point worth 1.1B - and their largest investment (if you can call that) was Telkom Kenya.
The deal according to Standard Newspaper article I gave you was rumored to be worth 50B Kshs - which in 2014 - translate to well over 600M dollars.
The deal was btw Helios and Orange. Not Gok. Orange paid 390M dollars - in 2007 - they paid Kshs 26B - and later invested 300M in cash.
After 7 yrs - where they tried to merge with Airtel Kenya - and last year went shopping for a buy - the Gok exercised their pre-emptive rights
And bought it for mere 50M dollars.

It get even more interesting - Helios donated 10 percent to Kenya gov in 2014 - so gov wouldnt pre-empt their purchase

Jamhuri Holdings Limited transferred 10% of its shareholding to the Government in consideration of the latter foregoing its pre-emption rights; thus, the shareholding was distributed between Government and Jamhuri at 40% and 60% respectively.

obaaderemi:
You keep repeating the same nonsense like a broken record until it sounds right to you. Someone describes you correctly here:

You keep saying Helios bought telkom for $600m, how in hell is that possible? Bring a link that shows that and it becomes a problem. Why did your government hide the details of such an important deal in a strategic company where it has shares if something wasn't fishy? You little Indians are so stupid.

And you just told another lie by posting a useless link saying telkom Kenya paid $50m for a 4g license. I opened the link and it was a 2007 report. Did you have 4g in 2007? When will you stop lying? 4g license in Kenya is $24m and you can pay it instalmentally in ten years! You are either lying as usual or you don't know what is going on in your country.
I know it's painful to admit you were robbed. But Helios did a wonderful job in little India.

Concentrate on getting your railway to work at least for a week; before it stalls; Kenya has huge railway dev levy that can be redirected to pay chinese loan. Every import pays 1.5% for Railway Develoment - that annually is now close to 300m dollars...

Kazikazi:

Kenya doesnt import salt - in east africa - Kensalt is almost name of table salt. Nigerian salt companies just refine imported salt. Ghana mine their salt.

Salt really is no big deal - it cheapest commodity you can think of - it plentiful in sea water

theenchanter:
does Kenya import salt or not? Not minding d fact that I can't remember when last time I had foreign salt.

>> Dangote Salt is produced from top quality refined solar crude salt imported mainly from Brazil.
Dangote buys its salt from Salinor in Brazil. That’s where most of the world buys. The only additives to salt are Iodine and anti-caking agents. Iodine is not added to salts abroad. WHO recommended it in Africa to help with goiter

https://www.ign.org/newsletter/idd_may22_nigeria.pdf

Even though Nigeria has large salt deposits in some states including Benue, Cross
River, Ebonyi, Abia, Taraba and Nasarawa states, there is no large-scale mining
of these salt deposits. As such, most salt
manufacturers import salt from Brazil,
Namibia, South Africa, China, Australia,
India and the USA. Nigeria’s imported
salt worth increased from N4.5bn to
N4.8bn (1). Nigeria imports from Brazil
were estimated at US$33.79 million
during 2019 (2

Raw salt is imported by major salt manufacturers from Brazil, Australia, Tunisia,
and Namibia. All salt imported from
Brazil, Tunisia and Namibia is not iodized
and so it is the responsibility of the repackaging companies to fortify imported salt
with iodine before selling to the consumers. Countries of export for salt from
Nigeria include Benin Republic, Niger
Republic, Cameroon, Ghana, and Chad.
All food grade salt produced for domestic
use and export is iodized.
There are three major salt manufacturers producing salt in Nigeria for commercial purposes (Dangote Salt, Royal
Salt, and Mr. Chef Salt) and one that produces salt for food industries (JOF) (Table
1). Dangote and Royal Salt produce table
salt and industrial salt while Mr. Chef only
produces table salt. JOF salt, at the time
of the assessment, did not have salt in the
open market but only produced industrial
salt that was supplied to food companies
for cornflakes, bouillon, and seasoning
production, with Nestle Foods as a major
client.
There are two major channels of
salt distribution in Nigeria. One is direct
from the factory to the large consumers,
such as the food processing industries and
livestock farms. The second channel is
from the factory to major distributors or
wholesalers who also sell to retailers and
who in turn sell to consumers. Interestingly, medium- and small-scale industries as
well as fisheries and livestock farms also

Fourpockets:
I can confidently say that Nigeria does not import salt presently

Nigeria is major salt importer - Dangote probably repackage it - into small bags. I think it mostly from South Africa and Namibia. Look like mostly Brazil.

This is 2013.

There is almost no salt production in
the entire Central and West African region
except for Ghana and Senegal. These two
countries meet the requirements of most of
the region. Countries like Nigeria prefer to
import their requirement of table salt from
outside the region – principally Namibia and
South Africa but also from Australia, India
and Brazil. South Africa, Namibia (Photo 1)
and Botswana are the main sources of salt
in southern Africa. T

Fourpockets:
I promise you, since I can remember, it's always locally made salt I e been using because I don't think we import salt

Why is racial purity of Japanese important? Isnt the US a great country due to immigrants? Wouldnt Japan be greater country if it welcome other cultures and made say Tokyo a melting pot of cultures?

Your ideology is racism. My ideology is humanity.

Fourpockets:
How is that not a problem, I really don't understand your ideologies at all.

I have transported salt to Uganda so this sector I know. Kenya is major produce of salt supplying east africa hinterland. This sea salt.

I think kenya does close to 850K - nearly a million metric tonnes

As for Nigeria as always - There are fewer than five salt makers in Nigeria as the existing ones are squeezed by high production costs, foreign exchange scarcity and energy crisis.

There is no short cut to development.

GeneralDae2:
Again you ignorantly make the mistake of thinking importation means non production. Nigeria produces salt just like Kenya and even more but they are only specific type of salts which do not meet the demand of all Nigerians. The companies I listed above are actually some of the salt manufacturers.
Also Kenya is not a top salt producer in Africa. So that's a big lie there. You just found a way to include Kenya.