₦airaland Forum

They mostly distrust it and you will mostly pay in dollars.

Shma:
The last time I checked Ghana didn't have a currency. I heard they adopted the dollar.

You can reduce that by 20 percent - after cedis dropped by 20 percent
So their real GDP per capita is now less 1950usd.

Shma:
Fact is here

$72billion ÷ 33million.

= $2181.8

You're an idiot. There is recommended reserves - something like 10-20 percent. Then there is idle excess capacity that Ghana is paying 1B dollars free money to IPPS.

Just40:
You are just a mad man

I intentionally mentioned reserve and excess just to confuse you and see how easy it was....

You don't know that excess capacity is a reserved capacity for rainy days

You are such a dumb kid

The US government pays billions for it reserve power station in DC just for when ever it needs to rely on it.

That is called futuristic planning

Nearly every kenyan company in nearly every sector has something going on in the region.
If it's banks - you're talking about 15 banks.
Insurance companies - 15 plus
Manufacturing - all over.
Hotels - all over.
Airlines/Aviation
Name anything

GeneralDae:
I didn't mix it up, I clearly explained we would come to outflows. If I say list ten of your biggest outflows, I know I would get a list like this:

1) Mpesa
2) Mpesa
3) Mpesa
4) Mpesa
5) Mpesa
6) Mpesa
7)Equity Bank
Tea
9) Flower
10) Mangoes

This is not your stone-age farms. These are some world biggest farms running large greenhouses. Kenya leads in Africa and account for 25 percent of all Europe sold flowers. Ethiopia is second after kenya companies went there.

Just40:


Imagine boasting that Nigeria wee growers or Ghana wee growing have farms in Togo

There are so many - for example East Africa Breweries - one of Africa largest breweries

GeneralDae:
For outflows, list ten of those Kenyan companies you said are unaccountable.

Set up shops - figuratively - mean they went establish the farms - and infrastructure - neccesary to ship (again be talking planes) to europe.

theenchanter:
idiot, don't deviate, u said it urself that Kenyan flower companies are the guys that set up shops in Ethiopia, and it's fdi.

Focus, comrade.

There is difference btw having reserve and having excess. You're paying a billion dollar for excess capacity.

Just40:
You're just stupid

The Germans and French and almost the entire Europe who have shut down their nuclear plants and redirected all investment from renewables to invest in thermal energy plants are stupid, is that what you're saying ?


As long as there is an abundance of cheat gas, Thermal units will continue to generate the bulk of the world electricity.

It is only stupid and un serious countries that do not have excess capacity and ever reserve energy capacity. Countries who do not have turn to be countries who are not planning ahead.

Almost ever serious country I know has reserve capacity and excesses for peak seasons and future growth.

You mean a nigerian man going to ghana and setting a shop is fdi
No that is probably illegal in many countries.
Nobody allow foreigners to come and do informal trading.
We certainly wont allow you in kenya to come.
FDI has minimum investment of I think 100K usd.
That allows you to register as foreign investor - bring in foreign investment.
Some countries have it higher or lower
But certainly no sane country allows shopkeepers from another country to open shop.

theenchanter:
no, not farm.... Shops, idiot.

You're mixing inflows and outflows. We are talking outflows.

GeneralDae:
Kenyan regional companies are unaccountable? Are you serious?? I mean do you even believe some of what you peddle sometimes??
Anyway before we delve into the topic of regional companies, let's talk about inflow of investments. This is from your own Kenyan website on capital investments into African countries in 2021, note that Nigeria receives these investments despite being ranked as low as 14th best country in Africa to invest in.

Nigeria emerged the fastest-growing hub on the continent in terms of capital investments, attracting $6.6 billion, followed by South Africa ($3.8 billion), Angola ($3.1 billion) and Morocco with $2.4 billion in investments.
The telecommunications service sector received the highest capital investment totalling around $8.5billion, with the largest investments focused on Nigeria and South Africa as remote working and hybrid work models raised the demand for transformative business solutions.

https://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/tea/business/nigeria-leads-africa-in-foreign-investment-inflows-3652190

On a side note many of our tech companies have regional branches. Even in Entertainment, cinemas like Silverbird have West African branches, but we would get into all of that shortly.

What do you think FDI is - if kenya agricluture company come to Nigeria and set up a farm - that is FDI.

theenchanter:
if the bolded is what u mean by Kenya's fdi to other African countries, then u're a certified mad man.

Thermal generators are available anytime on the market. Only stupid countries in West Africa call for them and have to them excess or idle capacity.If you were investing in hydro or geothermal or even solar one would admire it - at least Tanzania and Ethiopia are doing that - but procuring thermal generators - that you cannot provide gas or oil - and have to pay 1B dollars excess charge annual - is so typical of your BONOBOS.

And you dont even buy - you just promised IPPS to bring it - and you will pay for them - they ship it the same day - and then you struggle to pay for it.

There is small difference btw Nigeria and Ghana. Ghana run large generators. Nigerians like a million small generators in their backyards.

Just40:
and you think with your 2000Mw generation capacity will be able to match countries with triple and almost 10 times your capacity? Anyway, by the time your country is able to make similar investment to achieve that level of install capacity, you'll learn sense



This world is really funny oo

This problem esp in Nigeria. They invested in 12,000MW - spent billions of money - but peak production is not even 4,000MW - sometimes it even goes below 2,000MW. The reason the generating companies cannot for some reasons run the turbines all the time or when they run the distribution network collapses. And solution is to fix those structural issues...not invest in new plants.

Kazikazi:
African politicians will always mention installed capacity instead of talking about what a plant generates in a daily basis.I think most africans are thinking the same way that's why they hardy question it.These africans believe once u setup a power plant,then all the wattage will be available to consumers

Nigeria regional companies are countable. Kenya are not. In almost every sector - kenya companies have expanded regionally - it didnt start now - it started in late 90s. When kenya economy sunk in 1990s under the weight of sanctions, corruption and mismanagement - kenya companies took advantage of EAC (new) - and expanded to Uganda and Tanzania - and that expansion has gone further south to even South Africa - furthern north to Ethiopia/South Sudan - and even West Africa.

Name any sector - from even agricluture - kenya flower companies are the guys who went to Ethiopia and set up shop. Any sector kenya companies have expanded. The only competition was South Africa....but they are retreating. South Africa companies started also expanding around the same time - with end of apertheid and start of ANC.

As for Nigeria - you got Dangote, banks, fintech and globacom. FINITO. Almost every kenya company has regional branches.

GeneralDae:
What sectors are you talking about?

Speaking about non oil and gas investments, Nigeria is a powerhouse in Banking with the exception of South Africa and Egypt, Nigerian Banking sector is unrivalled. We also have big companies like Interswitch, Konga, MainOne, etc.
Out of a list of 75 fastest growing companies between 2017 and 2020, Nigeria has 20 Companies, South Africa has 24 and Kenya comes 3rd with 9.
If you take away Oil, Gas, Agriculture, Mining, etc, Nigerian investments would still outperform Kenya on average.

In every sector you will find kenya companies in the region. Apart from South Africa - no other Africa country come even close.

GeneralDae:
Okay let's discuss non oil and gas investments in both Nigeria and Kenya. Nigeria still wins there lol. So apart from Safari com and your biggest Bank, what other big Kenyan investments do you export?

Last I checked fintech was tight competition btw tiny Kenya and giant (of nonsense) Nigeria. Kenya receives non-mineral FDI. Nigeria and most of Africa receives almost exclusively mineral or extractive FDI - which has had zero impact.

And kenya is also source of FDI - this year alone we are investing more than a billion dollars in Ethiopia through Safaricom. Almost 1000 kenya companies have expanded to the region.

theenchanter:
it's a known fact that minerals do help economies, but what rvp is trying to claim is that Kenya, unlike most African nations, excluding SA attracts fdi cos of minerals while Kenya attracts fdi cos they have high human resources.

Little did the idiot know that Nigeria's startup alone attracts more investment than their fdi.

Minerals can provide capital - for smart countries to invest in other sectors. South Africa did this. Nigeria and DRC congo are facing Nigeria Natural Resources curse. You are world leading poverty capital. That GDP per capita - if you remove Oil production from it - about 100B dollars - what have you got?

obaaderemi:
Minerals never help anyone, yet south Africa thrives on it and Nigeria with all the corruption and mismanagement has a higher GDP per capita than little India despite having over three times the population.
Without oil, do you think Saudi would be as rich or powerful as it is?

Exactly. Installed capacity is nothing if the turbines are not turning like Nigeria or Ghana because the generating company is broke or has no gas or oil. The measure to look for is GWH. It is what is actually generated per hour.

Kazikazi:
Those are figures dished out recklessly by politicians
But on ground, S.A. is doing around 20's hence the load sheddings,same with naija and less than 10gw.And remember these are the 2 biggest economies.
But south Korea is at about 127gw, a tiny nation like that is doing far more than all of us in sabsaharan africa.

we have almost zero manufacturing

obaaderemi:
Russia GDP per capita = $11000
South Africa = $7000

The extra $4000 difference is more than twice Kenya's GDP per capita. If Russia is third world then Kenya is 10th world.

There is no difference..from 4,000 to 12000 they considered upper middle income..not developed.They are third world.Kenya just need to double it's GDP per capita to be equal to Russia.

You can get any stupid list online. First understand the subject.

theenchanter:
Kenya is not in top 10.

Egypt is 1st with $56.2b

Good documentary on Mombasa by Nigerian youtuber Tayo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr8n78AhM-M

Nairobi Marathon

An aerial view of 21KM race that is currently underway on the Nairobi Expressway#NairobiCityMarathon pic.twitter.com/9jb7KWHv1E

— Citizen TV Kenya (@citizentvkenya) May 8, 2022

Kenya is source of FDI to the region. 2nd after South Africa. Most FDI you see in Africa is mineral extraction. It produces almost zero multiplier effect. It just someone coming to extract minerals, pay a few royalties to your gov, and export it. Now if someone come to kenya - with less FDI - but it invested in sectors that have greater mutliplier - say manufacturing plant - the impact will be 10 times more.

That is why YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND KENYA thriving economy. Forget about minerals - it never took anybody anywhere - and invest in your people.

GeneralDae:
Probably he means Kenyans are able to attract more foreign investors who settle in Kenya and build there. But then again when you look at it, the Kenyan FDI is still a joke. The Kenyan economy confuses me sometimes.
They definitely need resources, no two ways about that. Maybe if they are humble on this forum, Just40 would lend them some Ghanian gold while we supply them some yams.

You dont understand squat about human capital.
A few doctors or engineers will not cover Nigeria unclothedness where millions of kids are outside school
Millions others are in Almajiri informal muslim schools.
And your country education is one sick joke.
Health sector is almost dead.
Nothing works.

Now kenya very high HCI stems right from it's historical focus on education.

Subsaharan:
Nigerians are the largest contributors as far as human resources are concerned in this continent.

The exploits of our doctors and teachers are just a few to be mentioned.

so when he talks about human resources and compares his country with Nigeria, he must be living on a different planet

There are so many indices by so many bodies that clearly shows Kenya is ahead. Common sense alone would tell you that a barren country without arable land or natural resources - and doing so well like kenya - it can only be because of HUMAN Resources.

obaaderemi:
The above is from the world bank on HCI. Definitely little India has supplied cooked data to the world bank like it does regularly to international bodies. I was wondering how it's HCi could be higher than those of morroco, south Africa and Tunisia. Now it's clear. A country where secondary school students fail woefully each year and the university system is bad.

You're being sold fuel most countries banned 30yrs ago...including kenya
The last lead fuel sold in Kenya was maybe 20yrs ago.
And strangely your crude is one best because it has no sulfur or lead.
You export best crude and import the dirtiest of refined oil
End result - health problems - car problems.
The petrol you import is even dirtier than ones I saw being sold on the streets from bush refineries.
At least bush refineries are using sweat crude....that Nigeria sell to US and rest of world.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/jul/01/petrol-sold-to-nigeria-from-europe-dirtier-than-black-market-bush-fuel

Our refinery worked for almost 50yrs.
It biggest problem was new fuel standards - [ this is greek in nigerian] - when sulfur and lead was outlawed in Kenya.
Nigeria you still consume the worst kind of fuel.
In fact you're known worlwide as market for dirty fuels...you get dumped sulfur and lead fuel...
This we banned in kenya - 20 or 30yrs ago.
Yet you have very sweat crude in Nigeria without sulfur or lead.
Your country is a joke.

Anyway we converted our refinery into oil storage and it's working.
For now it's just not feasible to run small refinery.
It was before large refineries were built.
Dangote large refinery will work.
If he let the Indians run it.

obaaderemi:
Corruption And lack of knowledgeable personnel killed your refinery. It was long dead before 2014. We had four refineries in the past and the smallest of them was bigger than the inefficient Indian owned refinery you had in Kenya. We never imported any fuel until 1998. The corrupt military boys killed our refineries.

But unlike you, we didn't throw in the towel and give up. We allowed the private sector to take over. But then your private sector is much smaller and less vigorous than ours.

One issue at time - we got all the time.
Russia gdp per capita =10,126.72 USD (2020)
That is South Africa level...that is middle class or third world..because we dont have second world.
First class or developed countries start at 12,000usd per capita.
Africa maiden developed country is Mauritus.
Russia is a 3rd world country with nuclear weapons.
Having 10K per capita is a sick joke.
US and Europe have per capita of 40-50k!!!!!!!!!!! 4-5 times more than Russia.
US anybody earning less than 20K is considered poor and receives a welfare cheque.

Natural resources never made anyone rich.
It's adding value to natural resources that make people rich.

Otherwise Nigeria and DRC would be richest countries in the world.

obaaderemi:
I've always said it, you little Indians know little about international affairs. How can an educated person label Russia a third world country? You are very ignorant.

Nobody is talking about development and natural resources. We are saying natural resources come in handy when things are rough. United States has availability of many natural resources as one of the factors to thank for its rapid development. Iron ore helped Britain a lot too. Oil and gas are helping Russia.
Your shithole is nothing like any of those countries. They had foundation for development which you lack and they don't worship corruption like you do. The other time you said an animal like Ruto should take over from his corrupt brother as president. A man like that would be behind bars in any of those countries you think you are aping.

Now all this has been proved to be insufficient. Has it not? Now your problems with oil product supply has clearly shown your foolishness in not investing enough in that industry instead of just being satisfied as a transit point.

And you've achieve d nothing with your supposedly and phantom high hci. Your school leavers constantly fail their final school leaving exams and foreigners own your ict industry. So what again?

You're talking future tense - make it happen first.
We have done it before.
Our oil refinery was competitive until 2014.
Oil products from KPRL used to serve customers in Kenya, Uganda, Rwanda, Burundi, Tanzania and parts of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC)
We use to import crude and refine it.
But refinery got old and inefficient - an attempt to get strategic Indian partner Essar to help us didnt work out.
Yes India are good in that stuff. Essar and Reliance are some world leader in this business. Ambani is one richest in world from oil refinery
Thousands of Indians are laying down Dangote refinery and will run it.
Your salt merchant Dangote knows nothing about refinery
His real value is going to be getting Abuja to impose taxes and duty on refine fuel imports...protectionism
And then he will finish you - with high prices - just like Cement.

obaaderemi:
So You allowed your refinery to go to the dogs because Indians in India built large refineries? Why do Indians determine so much that happens in Kenya? That's beyond stvpid.

Nigeria currently is building a refinery that might put a number of Indian refineries out of business. Shame on you.

By next year we will have zero fuel import. By the way we already export fertilisers to some big countries.

As a regional powerhouse and a 50m population country, you have no excuse.

Infact they would have fared much better if they stuck with palm oil - where they were world leaders during colonial period. Palm oil value chain is great - from farm - and it's used to manufacture almost 1000 of finished goods - maybe apart from metalic or wooden things - everything has some palm oil in it - and Malyasia/ indonesia have benefitted greatly. But Nigeria dropped everything and got high on crude oil - military left the barracks and joined the party - and the country is still high when oil prices go high - but mostly dealing with withdrawal symptoms.

Natural resource curse or the Nigeria curse.

And the Obaboon is wishing Kenya was suffering from the same fate

gallivant:
You don't need oil and gold when you have brains. Nigerians are still using generators to power homes and you discovered mineral resources in the 60s. Nigeria still imports refined petroleum products. Why would any country aspire to be like shithole Nigeria?

South Africa during apartheid sanction pioneered the production of oil from their coal as they couldnt find oil easily. Sasoil - one largest companies in the world - refine oil - not from crude - but from their coal.

Kenya for 50yrs until 2010 or about had oil refinery that was meeting local and regional demands - producing 50,000 barrels per day - however it went into disused - new refining standard came (no lead/sulfur) - and Indians simply built world most efficient large refineries that put many small refinieries worldwide out of business. In 2010 - we sold half the share to Essar (I think part of Indian Reliance - oil biggest refineries) - but for some reason they couldnt revive the plant - and we bought it back.

Kenya doesnt produce oil - for Nigeria - the shame is beyond the pale

obaaderemi:
You talk like a regular little Indian.
South Africa is not an oil producing country but it has the largest refining output in Africa.
Don't let me add you to the list of people I don't respond to when they quote me here. Please reason like a human being.

Dont argue with empirical data. That should have been lesson no 1 in your school. You throwing numbers as always carelessly. Learn to support your verbiage with some thing. Anything.

Just40:
there's nothing like sub Saharan Africa when we are mentioning Africa.

Manufacturing contribute to to 18% to employment in Ghana.

Kenya manufacture nothing hence why your import is as high as 23 billion dollars... Sector was growing, it will show in your energy consumption... It will also show in a reduce important bill.

You see how Ethiopia energy consumption is growing , that is what manufacturing does.