₦airaland Forum

1wolex85:
You obviously know nothing about Cruyff, no need to argue

Tell me what you know about him.

miketayo:
Trophy is everything both personal and team.. and these players are almost as good as Henry

Trophy is not everything.

It is very important for careers but not everything and definitely not what determines which player is better than the other.

If it was everything Maradona would not have joined Napoli!

Batistuta would not have stayed in Fiorentina.

obonujoker:
Buh Ronaldo is champions league highest assister ever....

And so?

He also drinks the most milkshakes.

Boy, how old are you?

obonujoker:
We just respect Ferguson noni.... buh can you tell me what Ferguson achieved, that Jose hasn't achieved??

DOMINATION!

LordAdam16:
You really need to do some soul-searching and understand why certain players are regarded as GOATs.

Becoming a GOAT is not entirely about scoring goals or running past players. It's also the natural talent and intelligence.

You can't compare Ronaldinho and Cruyff, they do different things. Ronaldinho has an unbelievable flair, but Cruyff has better in-play intelligence. Cruyff single-handedly lifted Ajax and Holland to becoming European and world footballing giants. He moved to Barcelona for a record transfer fee and showed it wasn't a fluke. The next year, he took Holland to the final (same thing Messi did in 2014).

Granted, he didn't score as many goals as CR7 or Messi while playing in a similar position. But he didn't have the Ozils, Modric, Kroos, Scholes, Giggs, Busquets, Iniestas, and Xavis that both CR7 and Messi have. Put Cruyff in MU of 2007-2009, Barcelona of 2009-2012, RM of 2013-2016 and he'd be breaking records like they were match sticks.

He was so good, he took his intelligence off the pitch to invent the same football philosophy that laid the foundation for tiki-taka--the best style of play of the last two decades. La Masia was revitalized based on his philosophy. Football wasn't an art to Cryuff, it was a science. No other person saw and understood the game like he did.

That's why he is on the list.

-Lord

It is about the natural talent, intelligence, your application of it repeatedly on the pitch, your carrying a team and your coming up to take the realm when it matters. All these done over a long period.

Ronaldinho, Zidane and Iniesta are better than Cruyff in these.

Some of you get too emotional about pioneers.

Being a pioneer does not make you th greatest everytime. Sometimes, people take your pioneering exhibition and take it to another level.

Cruyff introdced the fundamentals, Iniesta is a magician!

miketayo:
As a player no one, that's because cr7 didn't stay long enough in EPL.
But Henry doesn't have d best career in EPL as a player..

Giggs, scholes, lampard, terry etc all had better careers in d epl

How did they have better careers?

obonujoker:
And great players make their teams win... moreover individually, how is Henry the greatest ever....??

He wasn't the best dribbler
He wasn't the greatest assister
Never won individual honours
Won the golden boot on in EPL
Isn't EPL record scorer....

so??

What utter nonsense!

So how come Drogba did not make CIV win ordinary ANC?

He is not a great player?

obonujoker:
Jose Mourinho is better than Ferguson....

Even Jose would be holding his ribs laughing at you.

ObaKlaz:
Alex Ferguson is not the greatest 'cos he coached just Manchester United. He couldn't have replicated his successes elsewhere. He needs to come out of retirement and prove his greatness with Eiber in La Liga. *Logic*

Fcking very well said!

anigbajumo:
Lol,it was Barcelona that gave him 4× best player consecutively which Pele in the question not even won.Watin Ronaldo won in sporting?? U guys like to spew trash.Portugal team won the trophy without Ronaldo even 3rd in confed cup without Ronaldo. Wat d poo ar u spewing.

Messi is a playmaker, dribbler,creative Nd can determine match nd even goal scorer.

Ronaldo lack dribble accuracy,an't create chances from midfield, just 190% trash expect goal.No diff between Ronaldo,Kean,Aguero nd co.He is only prolific striker nothing else.If u doubt me,there are many matches messi won't score goal but will b given man of the match.That enough will tell u Leo is not about goal but assist,creative,dribble ,create spaces nd so on.Ronaldo is no where near messi though he is a good hardworker ,good finisher but can never near talent of messi.

Very well said!

Iamthoney:
please school 'em Ronaldo fanboys very well...They all expect Messi to grace their mickey mouse league(EPL) before they will agree that he's better and they keep spewing trash about how Ronaldo left the EPL for La-Liga like he left on his own. Real Madrid met his valuation and he was sold so any damn club that want Messi in their rank should cough out his buyout clause or even more and see if Barcelona won't sell

EPL is the most competitive league in the last 15 years. So I would say it is the strongest league.

That said, it does not have the best teams. Spain does!

obonujoker:
Henry never won anything with Arsenal outside the EPL..... Even RVN was a better goal scorer than Henry

TEEEEEAMS WIIIIIIIN COMPETITIONS!

LordAdam16:
As in eh, people can dey spout unbelievable statements sha.

No one is better than Cruyff at what he does best, intelligent play. No one.

-Lord

Zidane was better.

Iniesta too!

1wolex85:
I'd really not like to count friendlies, when it matters, Argentina beats us

I count it.

They don't like losing to teams they regard as far lower, so it is normally a competitive game.

Worse still, lose by conceding 4 goals. Which was the same thing they suffered in Nigeria's first win. There was complete outrage in Argentina, they quickly had to organise a rematch in a week.

They take it seriously.

cstr1000:
Messi have never scored against Chelsea all his life. And they have played each other many times in the UCL.

The last time they played, messi got knocked out of the UCL without scoring against Chelsea.

And your point?

obonujoker:
He bettered Henry before he moved to Spain,oga.... and how is Rooney not better than Henry in EPL??

Are you having a laugh?

You know there is a time for comedy?

LordAdam16:
Cruyff invented the Barcelona style of play that Messi learned at La Masia. You could practically call Messi a football progeny of Cryuff.

And so what if he invented it? Being a good coach makes you a great player?

LordAdam16:
R9 came back from an injury that can only be described as a miracle. Which is the foremost reason why he is called El fenomeno. And he is the only other player in history who has the goalscoring instincts of CR7.

Nonsense argument.

Even Kanu came back from heart surgery that does not make him the greatest even in Nigeria.

LordAdam16:
Ronaldinho transformed football into an art. Neither Pele, Maradonna, Messi played as beautifully as he did when he was at his best. Not to take anything away from the later 3, but all they did/do is run past people with the ball stuck to their feet. Ronaldinho commanded the ball with ET-like touches.

Greatest entertainer does not equal greatest footballer.

LordAdam16:
Zizzinho inspired Ronaldinho. And was the first since Heleno to play like he was painting.

Heleno made football an art form.

And so?

Boy, how old are you?

LordAdam16:
Garrincha was better than Pele. He just didn't stay at the top level as long as Pele did. It's like comparing Ronaldinho to Neymar. It's pretty clear that Neymar would eventually surpass Ronaldinho in terms of stats and how long he'd be a top-flight legend. But Ronaldinho is unarguably better.

Aside Cryuff, all the other names I mentioned didn't stay as legends for 10+ years like Messi, Maradonna, Pele, and CR7. But if we're talking mainly based on ability, they enter the GOAT list comfortably. All of them could carry teams all by themselves when it mattered and they did.

-Lord

If you did not do it for long, there is no evidence you would have done it for long.

Kaka?

Rivaldo?

Pato?

Owen?

samisj4real:
What truth is attached to the last line of your statement now?

Bros what about "EDER"?

Who be EDER?

1wolex85:
Lie! total LIE

Far better, mate.

They both played from non-9 offensive positions.

Cruyff was a decent dribbler and good passer, CR7 is a prolific goalscorer from the wings.

I would go with the goalscorer in this case.

Cruyff, to me, is not even as good as Ronaldinho and Zidane but he is in the same league with them.

ObaKlaz:
You have no point, sir. I'd describe the EPL as mickey mouse league, and that's being objective - their performance in the UCL over the years butresses that. Y'all said Messi wouldn't perform without Xavi and Iniesta but he has become an hybrid of those guys, and performed very well without Xavi while Iniesta has aged. They said the same about MSN, yet Messi is top of the scoring chats with Neymar gone. All those guys are the VARIABLES, but Messi is the CONSTANT in the Barcelona arithmetic over the years. Pray tell; did CR7 have farmers and carpenters as team mates in United or even at R.Madrid?


MESSI HAS NOTHING TO PROVE BY GOING TO A MICKEY MOUSE LEAGUE!

No mind them.

The record of Nigeria vs Argentina at senior level is Arg 5 wins, Ngr 2 wins and 2 draws.

Nigeria has beaten Argentina twice when Messi was not in the team.

The first time we did, the embarassed Argentina quickly organised a rematch a week later with Messi in their team and he destroyed us! He taught us a good lesson.

Shows you how dependent the Argentina team is on him and how poor most of the rest of players are.

obonujoker:
Alan Shearer
Wayne Rooney
Ryan Giggs

Are you having a laugh?

obonujoker:
Cristiano Ronaldo....

Not before he moved to Spain.

LoJ:
Greatest in terms of what? It depends on the angle.

In terms of pure football skills and genius, I would say Ronaldinho and Maradona.

In terms of Trophies I would go for Pele.

In terms of completeness Lionel Messi has my vote anyday.

In terms of abnegation, self questionning, hard work and discipline, Ronaldo takes it anytime.

BUT, though I am a Ronaldo (both of them) fan, it is too early to conclude Messi wont be the greatest. There is a World cup coming... Who knows? Messi is a child of destiny, there is destiny written all over him. No one really knows.

I still love Ronaldo though. He has the right mindset for any one who wishes to go far in life, and does not count on "chance".

In football skills and genius, Messi has done every single thing Maradona has done, even more times than Maradona.

Ronaldinho is the ultimate in this and the ultimate entertainer.

Messi is already the greatest!

obonujoker:
How is henry EPL greatest ever player...?

Which EPL players in history are better than him?

LordAdam16:
That is entirely your opinion. It is not objective. It is not fact.

And that you're arguing with an obvious prejudiced lens proves it. If Messi is unarguably better than CR7, it wouldn't be a debate, it'd be clear cut. CR7 wouldn't even win a Ballon D'Or, because Messi would simply overshadow him.

But that's not the case. Both have had their stretches. Messi won 4 of 5 ballon d'ors. CR7 has won 4 of the last 5 ballon d'ors. You can argue that Messi achieved the feat first. I can argue CR7 achieved the feat at a time he should be declining. Making his feat impossible for any other player who's ever played the game. We'd both have those who nod and those who disagree, but we'd have both made valid points that can't be thrown out.

Don't even want to debate the points you're bringing up. I'm just relishing the records CR7 keeps breaking and creating and that I can use to prove he is the better of the two. You guys can continue arguing about who's better, doesn't add a cent to my account.

-Lord

Do you know the meaning of the words you use?

What is the meaning of "objective" and "facts"?

positivetaught:
messi is good but his success over time is due largely to the wonderful array of supportive talents around him,he really need to clear all doubts by trying other environments, if not out of hate you certainly can't describe the EPL as a mickey mouse league.

What nonsense!

The same array of stars that did not make 'Henry the GREAT of EPL' great in Spain?

obonujoker:
Your analysis eh... no wonder you support a clown like Buhari.... who made Henry EPL greatest player??

You are a cretinous fccktard!

Were you educated in Kaduna State?

1wolex85:
Johan Cruyff won nothing with the netherlands, is Ronaldo better than him?

Ronaldo (CR7) is well better than Cruyff.

LordAdam16:
1958, 1962, and 1970 WCs.

I'm a CR7 fan, but I don't subscribe to the idea that Messi has to leave Barca to prove himself. Prove what exactly?

Moreover, the answer to the GOAT question is entirely subjective. No one would ever be objectively, unarguably considered the GOAT by everyone (or at least most people) at any time. The only objective statements that can be made relate to the greatest players to ever play the game.

And Messi is on that very, very short list. Along with Cruyff, CR7, R9, Pele, Ronaldinho, Garrincha, Heleno, Zizzinho, and Maradonna.

All of them have their shortfalls and strengths, which is why none of them is heads and shoulders over the rest. For example, at age 32, Pele was already off his stride. But at 32, CR7 was winning the La Liga, UCL back-to-back, and the Euros, contributing positively to the wins and is on track to scoring the most UCL goals in a calendar year by any player in history. That said, you can't take away Pele's 3 WC wins whether he was playing for a star-studded traditional heavyweight Brazil or not.

-Lord

There are only 4 players on the short list for GOAT.

Messi, Maradona, Pele and CR7!

ObaKlaz:
Dude, come forth with your points. What EXACTLY is your point?!

TEAMS WIN WORLD CUPS!!!

Not players. I am not aware of any official record stating Pele won the WC, I am aware of one saying Brazil did!

It is not Tennis.

Don't argue based on misuse of terms you have seen popularly used. Pele was part of a team that won the WC, he did not win.

Now a fine argument might be made that a particular player played an extra-ordinarily exceptional part/single-handedly in winning a WC, so one can say the "player carried his team to win the WC". Fair enough!

But more education:

In 1958, Pele was a top player but the best player in the team was Didi. So Pele was crucial but he did not single-handedly carry the team. Didi was voted the best player at the WC.

In 1962, Pele was tackled hard and injured after the 2nd game and played no further part in the WC after game in the group stages. So Pele did not do anything exceptional, the team was good.

In 1970, the Brazilian team was regarded as the best team ever. Again Pele was crucial and probably the best player, but he did not carry this team full of stars, just like one cannot say Messi is carrying Barcelona when you have Iniesta, Xavi, Etoo, Puyol etc. He is just the best out of many.

So, mate, Pele has not won any WC. He was part of a team that has won WCs.

Messi has carried Argentina to WC final before, where they lost on penalties.

Ronaldo carried Portugal to win the Euros!

Messi vs Ronaldo

Ronaldo is the ultimate goalscorer. He scores spectacular goals and is able to score at critical times of the game to carry the team.

Messi is also the ultimate goalscorer. He scores beautiful and sensational goals and is also able to score at critical times of the game to carry the team.

Now beautiful goals are a notch above spectacular.

Not only that, Messi has a better goal rate (0.8 ) than Ronaldo (0.7) in their football lifetime.

Ronaldo has a marginal better goal rate (1.02) than Messi (1.00) since he moved to Spain. Just a hattrick of goals by Messi, can swing it, so it is very marginal. Far more proportion of Ronaldo goals comes from Penalties than Messi, so that is another factor to consider.

Lest not forget that Ronaldo sometimes plays as a centre forward while Messi does not, yet Messi has better goal rates.

Moreover, not only does Messi score better goals, he has far more assist (50% more) than Ronaldo as he is also simultaneously a playmaker. Messi goes to pick the ball from midfield half the time.

Messi regularly takes out 3 to 6 players in a game. Ronaldo struggles to get past one. If that one is a fast player, he has to pass the ball to a teammate.

Messi humiliates 3 players simultaneously week-in, week-out. Even great defenders. Boateng will testify!

And some would say Ronaldo is faster. Well, yes, he is but marginally. I once saw their top speed stats and it was very close. Moreover, Ronaldo is faster without the ball, Messi is faster with the ball.

Ronaldo is a FANTASTIC GOALSCORER and can compete for greatest GOALSCORER of all time with Messi. Not best player.

lamps4blues:
1958,1962 and 1970

You should have let him answer, mate.

It is him I want to educate.

ObaKlaz, is this what your Google is telling you?

Sultan5:
And Messi is playing in the worst league today huh?

Where did I say or imply that?