₦airaland Forum

danvon:
I Talk Am!!! saintmark88 I've had enough experience with JWs

They r a confused set of lies......this one prolly doesn't know the meaning of alpha and omega, first and last.

Argued with one who knew, he knew if he agreed that that statement was made by Jesus, he will contradict himself, so he decided that the statement was made by Jehova but was given to Jesus to give to the angel and then to John, my brova, I tire

enilove:
Jesus started existing with his Father from the biginning, so he say he is the Ist and the last.
Apart from the book of John , we read it clearly below where Jesus said "I was brought forth ", meaning created from the biginning.
Proverbs 8:22-36 KJV
The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
[23] I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
[24] When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
[25] Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26] While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
[27] When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
[28] When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
[29] When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
[30] Then I was by him, as one brought up with him : and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
[31] Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
[32] Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
[33] Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
[34] Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
[35] For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord .
[36] But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.


Verse 23 States " I was set up from everlasting...."

John 1:1-2 KJV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God.

Remember that Jesus called his Father his God

Guy o which kind lie be this, pls show me were that proverbs u quoted from was referring to Jesus??.... Show me nytyn that indicates Jesus.


Proverbs 8New International Version (NIV)


8 Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2 At the highest point along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;
3 beside the gate leading into the city,
at the entrance, she cries aloud:
4 “To you, O people, I call out;
I raise my voice to all mankind.
5 You who are simple, gain prudence;

Even a blind man can see proverbs 8 was clearly talking about wisdom not Jesus. U went to sch, u know what personification means.....wisdom was only been personified.

Thomas called Jesus his God....My lord and my God and Jesus didn't say, hey!!!......what are u doing, dnt j know I am created.

Jesus referin to his Father as my God doesn't mean he is created.. A created been cannot be the first and d last., d alpha and the omega, the beginning and d end....

I doubt if u know the meaning of Alpha and Omega , Begining and End, First and Last

enilove:
You asked if any created being can claim to be " the first and last, alpha omega"?
The answer is YES. JESUS CAN.

CAN ALPHA OMEGA HAVE A GOD? YES. JESUS IS ALPHA AND OMEGA and he has a GOD.
Revelation 3:12 KJV
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


God is a creator . Jesus said "my God" which means my CREATOR.

Good.....so u agree that Jesus can lay claim to being the first and the last.....but u have not answered why Jesus who according to u is created can lay claim to be the first and the last.

I will address this my God means my creator nonsense u put up der in a yl, one at a time

Peacefullove:
They Bolded Is what am asking, Angels are called " Sons of God " , same way Jesus was called " Son of God " .

What cause that ?

Why wasn't his Father addressed as such ?

Does it not mean every living thing that are made by God ( Yahweh ) are his sons ?

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
Revelation:22:13

How can a created being lay claim to be the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last.............??


Rev 22 vs 12-14
12“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to each person according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.” 14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates.…


Revelation 21:6
And He told me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give freely from the spring of the water of life.

Isaiah 41:4
"Who has performed and accomplished it, Calling forth the generations from the beginning? 'I, the LORD, am the first, and with the last. I am He.'"


Isaiah 44:6
"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

So as u can in Isaiah Yahweh uses this title of first and last, beginning and end, alpha and omega . but I'm revelation Jesus uses this same title for himself, could Jesus be taking title meant for his father.

Can any created being, human or angel, claim to be the first and last, alpha and omega. If none can, then there is a problem with what u have been taught in JW.

Now I know how difficult it is to negate all u have grown to know over the years. All m asking u is study these things with an open mind, and I will begin to see the truth.

danvon:
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
Revelation:22:13 no he didn't

Now u have answered him... I tot u didn't know this verse to respond to that his lie

ojoagba:
is been rich a sin? when satan tempted Jesus about giving him the world, he responded by saying everything under the heaven is owned by my father which also implies been his because, his heir (dj cuppy, otedola's daughter is not poor). solomon was rich, david and abraham were all rich. in their time, they had the best things available such as donkeys, oxen, sheep, servants, etc.

sir, Can't you have a father (God) who is so rich and become a poor child? freeze agitation is not really tithing but pained that God is blessing those whom he chooses to bless. if the people are poor because pastors "refused" to help, what will stop u from developing your talent and help stop poverty in the world? freeze opened a challenge advising his followers to help save souls and till date, non of the critics has given a dim thereby confirming the popular say; 'talk is cheap'.

How do u know none has given a dime, will dey come and tell u they have given, d oda day one pastor has stopped collecting tithe in his church after listening to freeze and studying the bible.

How come u fail to mention Jesus....d only begotten son of God, how come he wasn't rich since he has a rich Father, what about d apostles, what bout John the baptist, what about peter,Paul, james, john, Barnabas and so on. You mentioned kings of isreal David, solomon, Abraham would even be classified as a king because he led wars and defeated kingdoms and claimed their belongings.

Jesus said it would be easier for the head of a camel to pass thru d eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into d kingdom of God. This statement was made by Jesus himself.

There is no problem been rich, but if u collect from pple and use to money to live a life of wealth right bfre the very eyes of the pple u take this money from, build schs tht they cannot afford and pray for dem telling them God will bless dem..... Hmm hmmm remember God is watching u

What so ever u do, to d lipeast of my brethren, that u do unto meeeeeee.

Redhot111:
Cry over a loosed cannon? U're truly sitting on a long thing.

Cry over a loosed cannon? U're truly sitting on a long thing.

U guys are matures pips now......behave

2special:
they should get a life.... the pastors are not part of their problem....Elijah collected this last meal of a widow dose that make him a scammer...though we have fake pastor....all my enemy if they fail to repent should die....why must u make yourself my enemy... if u fail to repent... u must die...a proud redeem member.

Elijah had no food, didn't hve a horse, had no money...is it not foolishness to compare

ojoagba:
i think your anger will be better and sweeter if its redirected to abuja. if u think any of those men are guilty, sue them to court or better still, open your own church and kill poverty. if u cant open a church, use your talent, get cool money and share it to stop poverty. stingy people always expect to get from others. are the people ur accusing not contributing positively to the society? there are millions who are under the parol of these churches. contractors are hired to execute projects. make dem kill demselves?

I'm happy u r civil in ur response. Now lemme ask u, tell me d difference bw our religious leaders and our political leaders in terms of how wealthy they r??....not just that, how they flaunt this wealthy life style??..... Wen u r sincere to urself den I'll engage u more...cheers

deco22:
Because one pastor does something doesn't apply to the rest and according to him it's for missionary purposes but that's for him and God to judge.


Some churches have donated to IDP's bro,and also build houses and set up trust funds for widows and orphans...they are trying their best.

The apostles and missionaries who spread the gospel to d far ends of the earth didn't use private ships and hatch to do that. So all that missionary purposes is baldadash.......the church has neglected the poor, its had for u to accept. U say they have donated to idps, have u seen the present state of these idps??....

I don't know what they I've done, but I'm certain they hvnt done enough

deco22:
This churches has done more for some communities than the government,they can only do so much but you people won't see the good things they do but when they buy private jets,you guys explode up and you are saying am hypocritical...you turn deaf when you hear about the churches good deeds but become E-warriors when you hear about tithes.

And if tithes are not paid how is the church supposed to sponsor all this projects.

If d church buys one private jet, ehn. U rationalize for em, but wen dey buy four inspire of the poverty n d country den its a cause for concern.

Good deeds don't hide, if the church is actually been very charitable, oga I will not be complaining bout dem taking tithe. But they r not. Look at d humanitarian crisis n d N E, what has d church done to alleviate d suffering of those pple. What about their own members who are poor, can't pay hospital bills and all.......

deco22:
Let me address this your two arguments.

For your first argument,i believe you know the story of the widow who had only one mite and used it to pay her tithes and Jesus praised her,i have never heard any pastor say that tithing is by force it's done voluntarily and people give freely according to what they have and there is no discrimination if you pay huge tithes or small tithes...so I don't understand whats your deal

For your second argument,unless you don't live in Nigeria before you can be excused for playing dumb that you have never heard of the humanitarian works churches do,e.g building of boreholes and free medical checkups...so don't just bring that argument.

If u r not biased u would have seen were I said ....if dey r giving back, are they giving enough??.....a church that's given enuf back would not have d money to buy and maintain 4jets.......d money used to maintain 3 of those jets and d money used to purchase, if it was given back to d society or for charity, do u know how many pple a smile would be put on their faces.

Don't be hypocritical, I am a Catholic and d catholic church itself has been monetized, it is our duty to call these guys back to order by telling them their wrongs

All these pple defending these pastors, u guys need slap. If u hve a poor family in crisis n ur church, and u neglect that family as d leader n go for things of d world, den that's not Christianity. We all want a better Nigeria. The bible says righteousness exaults a nation but sin is a reproach . Ask urself this, as a nation r we exaulted ??...if no, den there is a problem.

The problem is, we have all failed, d political leaders, d religious leaders . yes!!!....ur daddy GO's have failed u. We r all in sin, that's y our country cannot grow. The church has been so monetized, freeze was right with this statement.

Even Jesus fed 5000, he knew it wasn't just to teach dem about God on an empty stomach, he didn't say it was d govts responisnily to provide food, so I'll just preach to dem

Take a deep reflection and sincerely answer is my GOs giving back to d pple , even if he is, is he doing enough, is there opportunity to do more??.....freeze might not be d regular self righteous person but God can use any one to speak his words.

Freezes voice !right just be Gods warning to the Nigerian church!!!!.....critically analyze the msg and ignore d messenger

I hope church members won't buy the rice...cos nah their money dem tke dey produce am

KENZINCO:
the worse conversation you can start with a person is the one you start with a fool who literally think he's the wisest person on earth(the can even be wiser than the creator sometimes) failing to withdraw from such conversation might gradually induct you as part of the fools family. I'm off.

Even those recruited to be suicide bombers for boko haram and Isis don't agree they have been brainwashed...so ur case is no different.....#freethesheeple

saltoasis:
by putting a gun to your head abi? If you feel the church you attend are bullying or intimidating you to pay tithes pls, feel free to change your church.But for someone to just come out of the blues and say all pastors in Nigeria are bad. That's what I'm against.

I never said all pastors are bad, I only meant those who manipulate people with all kinds of methods including threat of God cursing them to part with their 10% is daylight robbery

lloyds:
You are a liar. May God forgive you.

I know u may be one of those who tink adeboye and uyedepo already have their mansions in heaven as I ignorantly heard one Pentecostal sheeple say, I wanted to slap him.....

So to pple like u adeboye can do no wrong nah.

Wen u tell pple that they are cursed if they don't pay tithe, what's that....is that not a threat. Wen u tell pple that they r robbing God if they don't pay tithe to them and God is will be angry with them, is that not a threat

lonelydora:
No Pastor at least, in all the churches i have attended has ever threatened someone who doesn't pay tithe.

Adeboye constantly does, oyedepo does d same thing oga

lonelydora:
TAP is to help the poor, right? Do you know how many pastors that have poverty alleviation programmes that the media do not cover? Salvation ministries, OPM, Winners Chapel, RCCG, COZA, Christ Embassy, etc. I don't want to mention orthodox churches because many of you bashing tithing are from orthodox churches.
Is it because they don't make noise about it? Get your facts right.

Oga forget that tin, they are not doing enuf, if they r there would be no money to buy four jets and build universities that pple cannot attend. The other day one said he wants to build 1billion sport complex each for his two universities, sport complex wen pple way dey him church never chop.....

Stop defending the indefensible. I am a catholic like u rightly said, tithe is paid in d catholic buy its well relegated to the background, no one is under compulsion, thtshow its supposed to be.nobody should threaten anyone with the robbing God line if dey don't pay tithe. No one should be denied nytyn, weda marriage or so if dey don't pay tithe. Person go dey work dey collect 25000 a month, u go still dey threaten am say if e no pay tithe, God go pinkish am, den u collect the !money, u use of to buy jets and build universities pple can't attend Haba now....

Shine ur eyes wella.....even the Catholic church isn't NY diff, their schs r expensive, I criticize dem wem d need arises. But sheeples, hmmm.....even pastor say kill herdsmen dey r evil....dey r ready to

lonelydora:
Many rich men do more than this TAP on daily basis. Change your mentality guy.

On what report did u base ur statement on?

KENZINCO:
and this is exactly the problem.
You just imagine a problem for someone and make the imaginary problem a visible problem for yourself . that is the problem . you think a particular person has brainwashed some people , yet you are fooling yourself around fools who are exploiting your foolishness to make themselves more money and fame on the internet

U r case is beyond redemption....if pple can allowed themselves to be burned to death by pastors here in Nigeria. If pple can be brainwashed to commit suicide . I am not surprised by this outburst of nonsense. #sheeple #underaspell #brainwashed

ClitoPen:
I dey jejely on my own, u come de rudely ask for the meaning of my moniker....I told u the truth....and u r talking about having issues...
Abeg, try to dey reason properly before talking cos u are obviously the one that has serious issues here.

F off

KENZINCO:
So if I believe now that Adeboye prayer for me is a service and I decided to pay him willingly with my money or any other thing, how does that becomes the problem of anybody?

Daddy freeze goes to the studio to say things that I didn't get a bit inspired or moved by, but a the end, he still gets paid with my money.

Adeboye preaches every time and I feel inspired by it, and also feel he is one of the people who keeps reminding me of the place that exist after this world. So I decide to willingly give yo him,. How does that become a problem for others?

Prayer is a service rendered, the problem is not with u, its who the pastor that brainwashed u.......

ClitoPen:
None of your f business

Yeah u r right... Its ur moniker not mine, but learn to take a chill pill, m not d cause of ur issues

Acidosis:
Last time I checked, the freethesheeple movement was targeted at tithe payers. Tithe payers earn money in the same manner freeze earns from his OAP job. If Freeze has the right to lavish his money on Patek and Rolex watches in Dubai, others have the right to spend theirs on their Pastors, without criticism.

Calling tithe payers "sheeples" for spending on rich GOs rather than the poor is like insulting Freeze for buying Patek watches instead of patronizing the dying aboki watch seller in Maami market.

Freeze is nothing but a bloody hypocrite.

The freethesheeple movement is anti-christ, it has sent more people away from the Church FYI.

If Freeze preach the right message of salvation and the knowledge of Christ, people will use their soul and resources in their own understanding of biblical teaching.

Guy hope u know this response is a li2 dumb, no offence meant. Freeze is clearly against the pastors who collect these monies based on what they have fed their pple. Freeze has never attacked anyone for paying tithe. All he is asking d conmen to do is tell ur congregation the truth. Stop collecting their tithe to build universities their children can't afford, to buy four jets they will never use, only d pastor and his family can ue. I can go on and on.....open is head now

ClitoPen:
That babe manage fine sha but na horrible makeup spoil her show

Guy what the f is clitopen??

AkpaMgbor:
Again look for your fellow nairaland trolls to throw vituperations at...I discuss only with matured people..and I won’t honor your trolling henceforth..

.

U have consistently shown how low grade ur reasoning is with defending d indefensible with ridiculous arguments...u r under a spell cast on u by ur pastor to keep u eternally poor and him eternally rich over u

Acidosis:
Daddy Freeze is known for flaunting Rolex Watches with Hushpuppi in Dubai. What right does he has to condemn other Christians for doing exact thing he enjoys doing?

Freeze collects no donation from anyone just like every other person in this pix....so on what basis r u comparing him with pple who collect donations from pple

AkpaMgbor:
I am beyond your level of phoolishness and insults...look for your fellow uncouth nairalanders to trade insults with...

This one is fighting for his daily bread, he probably has one zinc and wood bible church someone, and u pple want to take away his only means of lively hood....he will protect it with his last drop of blood...conman

AkpaMgbor:
When they are caught in their lies they try to change even the words of Christ himself, Christ clearly said that there were weightier and more important things alright, but he also said that even the lesser things shouldn’t also be neglected or you now want to prove Christ a liar too?

I said weightier u said more important....I can cu have a problem with words and English. Like I said the pharises were under d law, they lived by the law. And by d law they are under d compulsion to pay tithe.... Do u live under d law nymore??

Even Christ tried to make dem understand that, this tithing law isn't important as other weightier tons, but they refused to listen, must as u r failing to listen....nibilical pharisee who has eyes but cannot see

Disneylady:
The guy you quoted didn't understand his own right up at all......it is logical, there's is much difference between WILLINGNESS and COMPULSION. One can decide to give everything he has to the cause of God or humanity. About the woman they were citing in the bible, she wasn't compelled to give her all, she willingly did. So what's all the fuss about

My sister I saidnthey r under a spell that's y they see no difference be compulsion and willingness

AkpaMgbor:
Matthew 23:23 shows you all are liars
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

If you’re not liar then tell me what Christ meant by saying “ you should practice the latter, without neglecting the former”

Don't try to be smart by half Mr . show me were Jesus paid tithe or collected tithe as leader of the church

The pharisees were under d law so they were obliged to pay tithe, but Christ says there r things higher than tithe...which is want we r saying to u today.....there r things higher than tithe and nybody that says tithe is d way to heaven and way of unlocking heavenly blessing is a conman. This is because Christ has told u to pay more focus on other tins as christains