₦airaland Forum

There is something about the rich man and Lazarus story I didn't consider while a PIMI JW.

I had long believed that the story is a parable, so everything there had to be explained away as pointing to something else other than real life event. This is because of several scriptures including Eccl 9:5-10; Romans 6;23

However, aren't parables built from events familiar to once audience? Think about it, all the parables jesus told was not what his audience never knew about, it wasn't from fiction. It is true that some elements may be exaggerated or added to make a point, but events in a parable are not entirely from fiction. The good Samaritan story, the Wise Steward, the prodigal son all were stories his listeners could relate to. I mean the man who was robbed while journeying from Jerusalem to Jericho. That was a location people knew was dangerous. But the story Jesus told didn't actually happen. But the location exists, that actual event can also happen. It's not fiction.

There is a reason to think that Jesus was conveying something from the story/parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Assuming it is a parable, what reality did the parable draw from? We can quickly say, it was fabricated from unrealistic event. It is a fiction. But think about this, Jesus audience was the Pharisees, and the Pharisees believed in the immortality of the Soul, they believe also in after death torment of the wicked. Then Jesus began to tell this story of torment. The big question is:

If this torment after death was a false doctrine, why is Jesus making a parable from that? Will that act not in fact be validating a false belief? I was just thinking, let's say a JWs is trying to teach another that a wicked act is wrong, then he begins to tell a story that so and so did this wicked thing to Mr B, then after so and so died, he found himself in hell with torment, how would that JWs think his audience will view that parable, that hell is false? Never! he is in fact validating that doctrine by drawing from it to teach a lesson.

Jesus never said nor condemned torment after death, rather he even used imagery that conveys that doctrine.

We need to also consider that there is no way to allegorize all that Jesus said there. All attempt to convey the meaning in literal sense fails.

The interpretation assigned to this parable by JW leadership doesn't match the account. I will talk about their interpretation and why it doesn't fit next time.

Tags:
jimRohn or Kobojunkie or FxMasterz, maynman, Dtruthspeaker, Image123, DrJones109, Jesusjnr2022, LordReed, Jaephoenix, JessicaRabbit, Knownunknown, DeepSight, BBIA HellVictorinho6, SIXFEETUNDER, OkpaNsukkaisBae, Bacteriologist, FRANCISTOWN, SIRTee15, Aemmyjah, TheSourcerer,
Busybrain2233, 1Sharon, TakeNigeriaBack,
Botragelad, isan, Fourthpredator,
seun, hopefullandlord, bobestman, Lorrayne, HardMirror, Hahn, SlawG, albreezy4eva, Muslim, Dominique, Mrbroke, EnemyofGod2, kkins25, Wilgrea7, A001, Maynthemayn, achorladey, Jozzy4, MightySparrow, NowYouKnow, TemmyT002, johnw47, Boomark, Emusan, Dtruthspeaker, Gabrielshow24, rottennaija

FreeIgboho:
That's the mistake you people make. God has no definition in human terms.
See if you can wrap your mind around this:
There are over 2 trillion galaxies in our universe. And possibly unlimited number of universes. Now, shrink our galaxy to the size of the earth and our earth will be smaller than a grain of salt! Add to that, there are likely multiple dimensions. That's the God you're trying to define!

I agree, it is impossible for us to define His nature. Trinity is the best effort at doing that, but it is not perfect.

Ruke1991:
Those deeper life leaders problem cannot be solved by this teaching. It's somehow a mixture of hatred, unforgiveness, jealously and protectionism that makes them discipline, frustrate, blackmail and chase away their young ones who practice speaking in tongues, who are gifted in the prophetic or are are aggressively involved in leading others to engage in prayer. Those deeper life pastors have what bible calls cloak of maliciousness. What does it mean?

They envy you but will not acknowledge it is envy. They are secretly afraid that if you set up a church, they could lose followers. But they never try to understand your mission first.

Rather they look at legalistic rules within the church. They look at the church traditions to find what they can use to punish you and kill you. The best weapon is so called disciplinary actions. You could be suspended for up to one or two years in a row and while you are under suspension rumours about you being occultic, rebellious will be going round. The members in their simplistic and sanctimonious ways will start avoiding you for fear of the high handedness of their pastor not descending on them.

Deeperlife today is almost like a cult with fearful followers of high handed pastors who are not obedient to scriptures despite that they preach it. Those pastors are more about maintaining their control over the people than anything else. Or else, how do you explain their actions? Where in every location of deeper life, those who speak in tongues while leading prayer during holy ghost impartation services are considered occultic or rebels and have to serve disciplinary actions. Deeperlife is like that everywhere but the more religious members try to deny the coercion and erroneous application of disciplinary action in settling personal scores by deeper life leaders. Pastor Kumuyi, you have tried. But at this stage nothing you can do to change those pastors, not even your teachings except you discipline them anyhow the way they discipline people. That's the language they understand

My brother, just attend church, worship God and go home. Don't pin yourselves to any particular church or leader. You belong to Christ not GO or anything pastor. It is when you pin yourselves to a particular church, want to occupy a position there that you end up being frustrated. If you feel the need to preach, open a TikTok account and preach there.

You don't belong to Kumuyi, Pastor A or B, Adeboye etc, you belong to Christ. All they are, are stewards. They too belong to Christ.

MaxInDHouse:
Understanding of scriptures isn't easy for imperfect humans that's why Jesus instructed his apostles that he chose to take the lead never to establish any form of teaching singlehandedly they must be at least two in number so that by the time they pray for Jesus to come and chairman the meeting he will guide them by means of God's Holy Spirit! Matthew 18:20; John 14:26-27
So a man can't form a teaching because based on his own understanding alone it will backfire.

You sound different here. Something is changing in you.

God1000:
#PopeLeo #CatholicChurch #BBCAfrica

Catholic is stinkingly rich, but they contribute to charity. A fine example.

Love800:
I would love to be a Jehovah witness, because of their gentle life. Relaxed service and programs(not those stressful and loud types), and serenity of their church yard. Infact, its this serenity of their abode that blows my mind!

But the thing that worries me, is their misled teachings. How can you say that we are not going to die, but remain on earth and unite with our love ones and live happily together forever!

They try to maintain their place of worship. Their friendly worship style without loud speakers obviously is charming. JW didn't say you won't die, and uniting with your loved ones should be a good thing. If your interest is going to heaven, that's definitely a hope the saints will attain, but we will still come back to earth. The church teach that.

I think if you enjoy sweet environment, the Church of Later day saints trumps the JWs. The LDS outshines the JWs in there pretty modest Church environment. When a core JW, I used to appreciate their Church environment. It's sweet and charming. Woow.

MaxInDHouse:
The WAS refers to the time he walked the earth just like Moses who served as God for a period of time.

This is serious. Are you the one who wrote this? This is concerning.

MaxInDHouse:
Absalom is no longer a worshiper of God by the time he decided to kill Jehovah's anointed King so God's servants serving the same Jehovah never raise weapons against themselves it has always been an enemy of God's will who has been won over by Satan that will lift a weapon against God's organization!

Wrong answer. Return to our earlier conversation and give proves to all the cases servants of God fought, and show us scripturally when those ones served other gods.

MaxInDHouse:
"In the beginning" says God's word {John 1:1} that shows someone has a beginning definitely not the Almighty God!

The WAS is in the imperfect tense. By using the imperfect tense, John is conveying that the Word's existence was not a fleeting moment or a point in time with a beginning. Instead, it suggests a continuous existence in the past, before the creation event described in Genesis 1:1 (which is echoed by "In the beginning...".

Just make research.

MaxInDHouse:
Bible says:

“You must not murder." Exodus 20:13

Killing only comes to mind when God declares the judgement but against our fellow worshipers Jehovah's Witnesses has never done that because it's MURDER from the standpoint of our God.
So if your own people are fighting and killing their fellow worshipers know that they are not worshipers of our God!

That commandment was there even when David army fought with Absalom. And when Jepthar fought with his brothers.

MaxInDHouse:
He was a spirit being like God the same nature of angels.

The construction won't support that. The WAS in that scripture shows existence of the son prior to the beginning. Obviously something more than spirit. And the grammatical setting shows that what God's nature is, the Son is.

MaxInDHouse:
Where most people don't notice is the past tense used in the Bible:


John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ‭NIV‬


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. KJV


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. NWT

None said "the word is God" rather they all said the word WAS God.

WHY?

Because Jesus is the prophet who came in the manner of Moses {Deuteronomy 18:18} and Moses WAS a God! Exodus 7:1

The verb "was" is used, implying a state of existence before being manifested in Jesus. It is consistent with the earlier "WAS the word".

The use of theos in John 1 for Jesus is not the same with that of Moses. The word God in John 1 is saying that the Word is of the same Divine nature as God with whom the Word was with.

MaxInDHouse:
Who cares what you think?
Ọmọ there can never be enemies dividing God's camp so it's either you are for or against God in or out!

I care about what the bible says.

The following will help us get a gleams of Gods complex nature. Why the phrase, one essence, three persons is fitting is because of some scriptures that suggests so.

1. Matt 28

19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,

Here we see singular name, but three persons.

JWs will say that the Holy Spirit is not a person. If that were true, the Holy Spirit wouldnt appear here since the Father already has been mentioned.

At Genesis we see this sungular nature, but more than one persons being repeated in some verses.

Gen 1:26

"Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness... "

"God" Is singular, but he says let "us", and also in " OUR" image and not imageS. Of course, we know we are made in God's image, not image of two individuals. This helps us see that there is a sense in which God is both one, and more than one at the same time. Scholars have identified that this One is in reference to his nature, while in personhood, He is three.

At Genesis 3:5 satan said that Eve will be like God if she eats the fruit. Now notice a shocking statement by God at verse 22:

"...Here the man has become like one of US in knowing good and bad... "

Did you see that? Instead of God saying the man has become like me, he rather said has becime like one of US, plural, yet the one speaking is Jehovah, singular. This is even more significant if youre a JWs, since among JWs, the knowledge is a special knowledge of determining what is moral good and bad. This is especially reserved for the Almighty who is the Universal Sovereign. Ok, now we are seeing another Sovereign. Well, is it not tre that only the Father and the Son that is called King of Kings and Lord of Lords? Obviously Universal Sovereign.

See another example at Genesis 11

7 Come! Let US go down there and confuse their language in order that they may not understand one another’s language.”

From verse 6, we see that only Jehovah is the one speaking, as if speaking to himself, but in verse 7, he says let US. Plural. Now from verse 8, we see that the one who scattered their language is still Jehovah, singular. The account didn't mention that he was speaking to anyone but himself.

Side note: I believe that the word Jehovah is probably the name of God's nature. It wasnt only used for the Father in the scriptures.

We can see that in one sense, God is one, and in another more than one. Trinity is the effort made to bring all that the sceiptures has to say about God in one name. One Nature, three persons.

There are other examples of this singular in one sense and plural in another sense in the scriptures, but I will stop here for now.


Tags: achorladey, Jozzy4, MightySparrow, NowYouKnow, TemmyT002, johnw47, Boomark, Emusan, Dtruthspeaker, Gabrielshow24, rottennaija

italkdlonly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeUtVZLDuWc

Deeper Life Ghana National Overseer, Pastor Edward Kofi Twumsiah, shares his scriptural reasoning behind the belief that it is unbiblical for a wife not to bear her husband's name.

He make this declaration at the concluded Deeper Life Global Easter Retreat.

He made a good point. The culture of a wife bearing the husband's name was not present during the bible time.

However, in ancient biblical jewish society that is largely patrilineal, the culture of a woman bearing the husbands name would have been accepted, after all, it wasn't cultural to have a woman's name in their genealogical records. Today's society is coming up with different worldview not known during the bible era.

This subject shouldn't be a huge issue. Let a family decide how theirs will run. If the husband approves the wife to use her fathers name, then that's ok. What should be borne in mind is that the husband is the head of his wife from God's point of view.

MaxInDHouse:
And i've been fully prepared for this very moment that's why i keep telling you not to tag me again in your thread because you refused to face me directly.

So if truly you want this then start a new thread for just the two of us preferred title:

"Are Jehovah's Witnesses Right Claiming Only One Group Belongs To Christ?"

You already know my stand that there can't be two groups claiming Christians yet contradicting themselves in teachings so if you are sure of yourself come out plainly just you and i let others give their likes and shares for whoever is hitting the point!

Another wrong answer. Last chance.

MaxInDHouse:
You read but got lost due to mischief you concentrated on letters not minding what the spirit of God in doing:

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 2Corinthians 3:6

War is a sign of disunity and God is not for confusion but peace! 1Corinthans 14:33

So whatever makes war erupt it means a party is not doing God's will both can't be doing God's will yet fighting against themselves that is impossible read what Jesus said and think about it:

“Every kingdom divided against itself comes to ruin, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand." Matthew 12:25

Both sides can't be fighting for God and at the same time killing themselves nah.

Haba! Are you saying Satan succeeded in turning God's own camp against themselves?
Abeg what will the angels be doing at that particular time?

Wrong answer. Your last chance.

Janosky:
Oga, STOP LYING.
Isaiah 6:1-3 is praising ONLY Jehovah.
Oga, JW's NEVER at all claimed that Isaiah 6:1-3 gave praise or worship to Jesus.


JW's referenced Isaiah 6:8 that "US" included Jesus.
Yahweh the God Almighty said "whom shall I send?"
Jesus did NOT give that command in Isaiah 6:8.

The Jews & Bible scholars referenced "US" to mean Yahweh speaking to the divine assembly of angels, heavenly beings in the court of heaven, Psalms 82:1, Job 1:6.

The "US" Implies that jesus enjoyed glory alongside his father. That is my point there. The study pane says:

The use of the plural pronoun “us” indicates that at least one other person was with God in this vision. So it is reasonable to conclude that when John wrote that Isaiah “saw his glory,” this refers to Jesus’ prehuman glory alongside Jehovah

This is the same with Rev 5:13, 14 from my view. Notice whom John said Isaiah saw:

John 12:41
41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory, and he spoke about him."

Whose glory did Isaiah see as reported by John? And how many person is represented by the "his"?

Refer to Isaiah
1 In the year that King Uz·ziʹah died, I saw Jehovah sitting on a lofty and elevated throne, and the skirts of his robe filled the temple.

How many persons did Isaiah say he saw there?

Gabrielshow24:
Typical slitherin' move 😁, don't be surprised he has more up his sleeves 🐍.

I am ready for him.

MaxInDHouse:
NO!
They are not worshipers of the same God!

This is where you got everything wrong!

As a worshiper of Jehovah you must keep your senses to know who is on the side of Jehovah not just following the crowd.
Jehovah has never been in support of two opposing sides so it's you who needs to pay rapt attention to know who is doing Jehovah's will.

During the time Joshua led the Israelites to conquer Jericho the inhabitants of that city could have been neutral if they knew Jehovah's will but since only Rahab used her brain to figure out who is having Jehovah's backing she supported God's will.

Now go back to those events and think deeply about each pair of opposing sides, meditate on what each side is fighting for, i'm sure you will know which side Jehovah is before the conquest.

That's exactly what you are missing today.

All the religions on this planet are in one side while the only true religion is on the other side so which one is the only true religion?

If you're not interested in knowing that then i'm sorry for you!

Wrong answer. Respond to those scriptures and prove scrioturally that they were not worshioing jehovah and try again.

Maximus692:
God is not pleased with people killing people yet his worshipers should be pleased to fight and kill one another!

No, not again. Don't escape those scriptures I gave. Read those scriptures and try again.

Maximus692:
So your god is that useless that it's own worshipers as in it's loyalists will carry weapons against themselves despite being worshipers of the same god?

Haba!

Is this how hatred for truth has blurred your senses?

Ọmọ the meaning of that title "God" is "Supreme Being" so get it straight into your brain that no supreme person feels OK when his or her loyalists are fighting against themselves.

Jesus said:

“Every kingdom divided against itself comes to ruin, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand." Matthew 12:25

So how can you be in your right senses thinking God's children who are fighting spiritually in support of His kingdom will be fighting and killing themselves?

Ọmọ you're sick o!

Is it that you don't read scripture or you read but do not believe it? Didn't David's army fight Absalom and his Israelites army, who all were worshiping the same God? (2sam 18)

Didn't Jephthah fight his Ephraimite brothers, and God made Jephthah win? (Judges 11; 12)

Didn't Ahimelech kingship after killing his brothers, eventually result in a civil in Shechem? (Judges 9)

Are all these not worshiping the same God? War is not fun, God himself doesn't like people killing themselves for no just course, whether they are His children or not. But situations can lead to war. if we say that God is against war, how then will you explain these obvious wars fought by His faithful servants? If you're saying joining the army is a sin, you're calling God a sinner and his bible servants sinners. God authorized wars, took a side in conflicts, called Himself Jehovah of armies.

I understand that you can't accept because that is not what your GB teach. It's ok, but unfortunately the bible has examples of wars God supported. Of His worshipers fighting another of His worshipers. There is nothing they can do about that.

This doesn't mean he enjoys the show, but this is part of what he allows in this side of heaven. This is one issue that should be left for personal decision.

achorladey:
That's what many still captured in that captive organisation see but are too deluded or have high cognitive dissonance to know what hit them. The very thing they point fingers at others as being false Christians is the very thing they do and say they are true Christians.

Where it is sickening the most is that being a Christian have being watered down to being one of Jehovah's Witnesses and what led them to that is the fact that they cannot stop redefining terms to match their lies and manipulations of the scripture and even their own religious publications.

They need help.

achorladey:
I love this response to him. That's the way of the hypocrite. He will say he will avoid you or you should avoid him then when you post a thing that knows are true and exposes the lies and manipulations of his religious organization, he will respond in order to deflect it, minimise it or make people draw their attention away from it.

The bold is a crime in the land of Jehovah's Witnesses especially members who leave. Yet that's what Russell was saying when he said they won't be identified under any name but simply Christians

I don't blame them. It is lack of personal bible study that left them where they are.

Janosky:
Isaiah 6:1-3 references Jehovah
Jesus Christ wasn't given a throne until after his ransom sacrifice & ascension to heaven.
Oga, @ John 17:4-5,24, did Jesus Christ support your claim?
Not at all.
V4, "Father, I have glorified you on the earth"
V5, "Father, glorify me at your side (in heaven) with the glory I had before creation of the world "

V24 "Father,I want those you have given me to be with me where I am (in heaven,1 Thess 4:17) & see the glory you have given me.....before creation of the world ".

Matthew 4:10, (Jesus quoted from Deuteronomy 6:13.)
In John 4:24, did Jesus teach you to worship 2 different spirits?
Oga, don't be deceiving yourself.

Shalom.

In your JW Library study pane, your organization agrees that Jesus pre human existence is referenced in that Isaiah 6:1-3. They only added that his father was there too. This agrees with my post. In fact that study pane even quoted Genesis 1:26 and that implies that jesus is part of the God there.

Maximus692:
You may join them nah as for God's true organization we are no part of the world!

I don't see how I chose to worship my God is your concern. Did I dedicate my life to you to do your will? If you dedicated your life to an organization to do their will, that is your business. If I see someone preaching the word of God, I will listen to the word. I don't care the church name. If you're on fire for jesus, you're my brother, it doesn't matter the church the word is coming from, if it is consistent with the bible, I am in.

I have said it time without number, I am not into institution name, I am for Christ. Don't tell me join A or B. I am join to someone already, Christ my Savior. If you belong to GB or belong to Russel or Rutherford. I belong to Christ.

Courz:
Exactly. Well said! No religion can lay claim to God and Jesus. They can use anyone to make themselves known. Once I realised that Relationships are valued more than Religion by God and Jesus, my life has changed positively. I like that this lady was an Atheist yet God chose her for a purpose which eventually led her to God and Christ. I have realised that Religions like to put God and Jesus in a Box due to man made doctrines. Their wisdom is unmatched such that you cannot tell their moves like how religions like to do. I believe these NDEs are here to stay and it is God's way of increasing knowledge just as the Bible says would happen in the Last days.

You're right. No one can put in a box. He wants relationship. Church A or B doesn't concern God. Churches cause disunity in the body and even obstructs God's plans sometimes. Randy Kay has mentioned this point before. In fact God's next revival will put institutions behind and favour individuals, some of who are not institution based worshioers. Don't think that the increasing evangelism on social media's like TikTok, YouTube etc is random. I feel the next move of God would be in families, individuals and not insitution based.

achorladey:
I remember in the field ministry where we are asked to read galatians 5: about things of the flesh which include sects. We are taught to tell others that since sect is part of the things of the flesh, then all other religious organization seen as sectarian are fleshy in their set up.

They lie and keep manipulating people that they are not a sect. I wonder what they identify as Buddhist and not christian

The self deception is concerning. How someone will benjn Christendom, yet he is saying he is not in Christendom. Don't they have dictionaries?

From the first century to the early 19th century, who have been preaching Christ and spreading Christianity? Is it Russel that has not yet been born?

He now came up to form his own apostate sect of Christianity, then his followers are saying they are not kn Christendom. Then they are in Islam or Hinduism. Or perhaps a cult.

You remember that was how they were saying during the time of Rutherford that they were not religion. That Religion is an error and a racket. But maybe someone that reads dictionary came up to tell them that they are religion. So they now agree. Theirs is also a religion. It's sickening.

Janosky:



All the stuff in your posts can NOT CHANGE Jesus teaching of John 14:28, John 12:49-50 &1 Corinthians 11:3 you desire to undermine.

More so, when you Sand2022 know that Jesus teaching of John 17:22-24 expressly says that the same glory he had before creation would be shared to the disciples.
verse 22
"I have given them the glory that you gave me,
that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory,
the glory you have given me
because you loved me before the creation of the world."

Oga , no dey deceive yourself.

That's not what jesus was saying there. The glory he was tling his father was the one he gave them already on earth. This glory will help them to be United with the Father and Jesus. At John 17:5 is a glory prior to the World's creation.

At Isaiah 6;1-3 we see the glory jesus enjoyed, worship was included. If you read the scriptures honestly if will help you better.

NEWBIN:
Jws
do u believe God speaks to men through dreams in our times?

What are your reasons?

They don't. They don't believe in any supernatural visions, healings, angelic appearances or dreams in our time. They believe all that passed away after the apostles died. They believe that these gifts were given by the laying of hands of the apostles or during their presence. So when the apostles died, the gift ceased.

Of course they're wrong. The gift is not tied to the apostles. God is the one distributing the gift. Ananias was not an apostle, it was evidently through him that apostle Paul got his laying of hand.

OLAADEGBU:
Pastor W.F. Kumuyi Leading Prayer at President Trump's Inaugural Prayer and Praise Meeting


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR51x8PbQi8

I am happy he was the one chosen to say that prayer. Deeperlife is quite different from other churches. Kumuyi is doing a great job in the body of Christ.

In 1 Peter 4:11, Peter concludes a charge with reverent praise to God the Father:
"Whoever speaks, as one who speaks oracles of God; whoever serves, as one who serves by the strength that God supplies—in order that in everything God may be glorified through Jesus Christ. To him belong glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen." (1 Peter 4:11, ESV)

This doxology—ending with "Amen"—is reverential and worshipful. It is a form of praise directed not to the audience but to the Almighty God, who is not present as a recipient within the letter’s readership. Such exalted praise is a marker of divine honor.
Interestingly, similar expressions of glory and praise—concluded with "Amen"—are directed to Jesus Christ as well:

"...who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen." (1 Timothy 6:16, ESV)

And again:

"But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen." (2 Peter 3:18, ESV)

These doxologies affirm that such glorifying language is not reserved solely for the Father, but also given to the Son. This is not competitive but complementary. When we worship the Father, we do not exclude the Son, and when we honor the Son, the Father is not excluded either. Rather, they share in the glory and worship. This is echoed in Jesus’ prayer:

"And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed." (John 17:5, ESV)
This shared glory is also seen in Revelation 5:13–14, where both the Father and the Lamb (Jesus Christ) receive worship from all creation:

"And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, 'To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!' And the four living creatures said, 'Amen!' and the elders fell down and worshiped." (Revelation 5:13–14, ESV)

This unity in glory between the Father and the Son is not new; it existed before the world began. The prophet Isaiah describes a scene of divine worship:

"In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple. Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings... And one called to another and said: 'Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!'" (Isaiah 6:1–3, ESV)

John later identifies the recipient of that vision as Jesus:

"Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him." (John 12:41, ESV)

Thus, just as in Revelation 5, the Father and the Son share in divine worship, so too in Isaiah’s vision and John’s interpretation, the Son is seen as the one glorified.

The distinction arises not in essence, but in role. When the Son took on flesh for the purpose of redemption, He assumed a subordinate role—one in which He could say, "My God," reflecting His humanity and mission. Yet, this subordination in role does not diminish His divinity. It adds a redemptive function to His identity, while His divine nature remains fully intact—equal in essence and worthy of the same eternal glory.

Tags: achorladey, Jozzy4, MightySparrow, NowYouKnow, TemmyT002, johnw47, Boomark, Emusan, Dtruthspeaker, Gabrielshow24, rottennaija