MaxInDHouse:


Obviously you just want to argue so there's no need for further arguments just know that if you're not one of the students under the supervision of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses you are not worshiping our God. Period!

Obviously you just want to argue so there's no need for further arguments just know that if you're not one of Jesus disciples under the supervision of Jesus the head of the church, you are not worshiping our God. Period!

Janosky:


Matthew 24:36-39, did God judge Noah and his Sons individually? According to Jesus Christ, did Jehovah God save ONLY his servants?

Isaiah 43:10 (ASV) ,Acts 3:13 & Acts 15:14-17, did you notice that Jehovah's servants bear God's name?

Hmmm. Sorry your logic is hard to figure out. I wonder if the comment is meant for the post your quoted.

Janosky:


John 5:28-29 = Acts 24:15, resurrection of life for faithful obedient Servants of Jehovah throughout the millennium reign of king Jesus Christ after passing the final test from Satan released from the abyss.
Resurrection of judgement for wilful disobedient ones falling prey to Satan after his release from the abyss.


Acts 2:41-47 & John 20:17,organized for Jehovah's worship.
Not Organization of 3 deities worshippers.


The resurrection of Revelation 20:13 same as resurrection of John 5:28-29 & Acts 24:15.
The millennium reign of Jesus Christ is a period of judgement (to bring mankind to perfection) leading to the final test of Jehovah's servants after Satan's release from abyss.
John 5:28- individuals faithful obedience and passing the final test of Satan is a resurrection of life everlasting.
John 5:29 this is a resurrection of judgement for disobedient individuals failure to attain perfection and succumb to Satan's for testing.

The millennium reign of king Christ would lead mankind to perfection (replace what Adam lost).

I don't understand. Your comments are not articulated. Besides this was meant for someone else.

Janosky:

Greek lexicon 5590 @ Matthew 10:28 & Mark 3:4 has the same meaning.
Man can kill a soul on the Sabbath or save a soul,says Jesus Christ.
Soul is life/living person (living soul).
The rich fool gained the world & forfeited his soul (loss of life/dead) without prospect of resurrection.
Matthew 10:28, God can resurrect a soul killed by his fellow man on Sabbath, but nobody can resurrect any soul (life or living person) destroyed by God's judgement.

Who resurrected Adam? Who resurrected the rebellious sons of korah ? Who resurrected the wife of Lot or people of Sodom Gomorrah?

God rendered judgement on there case.
Their case closed. No resurrection for them.

The Bible translators deliberately interchange the use of Soul /life to deceptively stick to the Greek philosophy of immortal soul.

Shalom.

I don't understand. Is that meant for me? Didn you read my comment well?

MaxInDHouse:

There are lots of JWs out there practicing other religions but deep in their hearts they're with the one and only channel so they will continue to argue here and there until they meet JWs.
But even if you're born in the midst of JWs but believe that there are other channels it simply means you're not one of us!
So the thief is a Jew who believe in the Christ but after meeting the Christ he never hesitate to grasp the opportunity of confessing himself as one of Christ's subjects despite his past lifestyle.

You don't become a JWs unless you become baptize in the faith. That's not even the point. The point is, the evil man got saved without even being baptized. The basic thing needed is faith in Jesus. With that, Jesus can grant you access to that kingdom without answering any query from anyone.

The reason for the point is this; leave the issue if salvation to Jesus, God appointed judge because you may not know for sure whom he will pick as saved.

Check the answer to the question about salvation from your website.

Don't deceive yourself! If they're organized to do God's will there won't be any wars!

What do you understand from the word "organization"?

Whatever you hear from me is JW's teaching (updated) so our light is ever getting brighter!Proverbs 4:18
As for the highlighted resurrection is only for two categories of people:
Righteous ~ those who spent all their lives in pure worship so God has declared them RIGHTEOUS.
Unrighteous ~ those who only lived by conscience without God's laws {Romans 2:14-15} though they don't know God's laws but they soberly subjected themselves to their God's given conscience so they remain unrighteous from God's standpoint but they will be remembered for their virtues. As for those that choose to be wicked they will never see resurrection {Psalms 9:17} they are gone for good.

After the resurrection the Christians will now teach all those that lived by conscience what Christ taught us we will all continue putting on Christ's personality for one thousand years.
From God's standpoint all the people living on planet earth whether Christian or none Christian are like dead because some former unbelievers who lived by conscience will insist on living without Christ's teachings and because it's based on Christ's sacrifice that they were released from the grave, God will allow such a person to live for just 100 years so if after living with us for 100 years without growing older he still refuse to believe in Jesus' sacrifice as what caused his release from the grave he will have to die again and now his blood will be upon his own head because he will die as a youth {Isaiah 65:20} then Satan will be released to test all survivors after 1,000 years! Revelations 20:5-6

After the 1,000 years we will all have become perfect like Adam and Eve so Satan will be released to test all survivors. That is the time each person will be judged based on what they choose to be after they've become perfect. Revelations 20:13

You don't know what JWs teach on this subject. Humbly make research.

MaxInDHouse:

Naaaaaaaaaaaaa the error of God's people totally differs from that of those who don't know His standard at all. Note that those who don't have God's laws do so many things that God will not permit his own people to do. So if His own people err it's based on a very high standard not just the common human rules.


YES!

Do you think Jesus sanctioned the errors of the Jewish religious leaders of his day since Jews were then God's people?

I don't understand what you mean here!

2cor 11:5. Never heard of that before?

Satan capitalize on man's imperfection to establish false religions {Matthew 13:25} so it's not God's fault! Deuteronomy 32:5

No none Jews perform a single miracle they only received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues as sign of approval from God.

Hmmm, speaking in tongues is miracle bros. Prophesying is also miracle. 1cor 14

Revelations was the last message Jesus passed so John decided to write his own gospel account which was meant to correct one error! John 21:20-23

The rest were letters from the Apostle who had Jesus last!

Was the book written by John inspired by God?

Courz:


At the bolded, No that's not what JWs teach. From the screenshot below directly from their website, Only Jehovah's witnesses will survive Armaggedon and be saved. You may hear some JWs tell you otherwise but those ones are actually disagreeing with the approved doctrine from Watchtower above which is not allowed in the Cult. You can't disagree with Watchtower.

When discussing with JWs, it is either their way or the highway. They are not people you can sit down and discuss Bible with the hope of interchanging opinions. Don't expect a JW to accept your opinion even if you are right and can prove it with the Bible. It never happens. In case you don't know, Watchtower is Supreme to JWs and whatever they are taught stands even if it is obviously wrong and cannot be found in the Bible. The earlier you understand this, the better while you are chatting with this fellow.

Thanks for the screenshot. Generally that is what they believe about those that will survive Armageddon, but that article is not technically covering all that will be saved as JW believe.

It didn't define who is meant by the word "Jehovah's witnesses". And it also didn't talk about all who die now before the end of the world. It also didn't talk about those who lived before the existence of modern JWs. So it refers to the end of the world destruction specifically.

The guy doesn't know all the beliefs of witnesses. He is trying but there is room for progress.

MaxInDHouse:

God is not disturbed with the errors of His chosen ones {Psalms 103:12-14} what matters is their willingness to make amendments but as for anyone outside God's organization there's nothing for them because God will never ever use more than one channel!

Ok I think you agree, you only say that He accepts only the error of His chosen ones. It's ok. Who His chosen ones are differ from person to person. However, another will say that error is error. Well done.

Jesus was talking about groups led by false prophets {Matthew 7:15} the teachings of the false prophets will not yield positive result in the midst of their followers! Matthew 7:16-18

Almost similar. So the mention is about their leader who is a false prophet.

Naaaaaaaaaaaaa such can't happen in true Christianity it's either members obey the Body appointed by Jesus to lead them {Hebrews 13:7} or those who aren't ready to obey take their leave! 1John 2:19

Do the superfine apostles always obey?

God's own organization is headed by a united BODY of elders so it's false religions that could be led by disunited false prophets! Luke 12:23

Ok, this is also an agreement.

True Christianity doesn't give room for diversity in doctrines {1Corinthians 1:10} diversity in doctrines is of the devil!

And error is of God, right?

God kept His promise until Jesus Christ came but after they rejected the Christ God condemned that nation for good! Matthew 21:43; 23:37-38

Thanks for the agreement.

It's the presence of Jewish disciples of Christ that such things occur after their death there's nothing like that anymore!

So you agree that others not the Jews also had the miraculous gift. You do well.

Well Jesus' statement there simply means the end of divine communication so everyone only need to study the Bible, miracles ended!

So 1john, 2john, 3john and book of John were not divinely inspired?

MaxInDHouse:

It's the case of that the thief that supposed to help you. All we needed is to welcome Jesus' arrangement. That guy exercised great faith because himself and the so called Christ are suffering the same fate yet he reasoned that everything written in God's word about the Christ is fulfilling in this man's life including the prophecy that the Christ will be killed alongside criminals {Isaiah 53:12} that's why he obediently, humbly and faithfully acknowledged Jesus as King. Jesus has no option than to welcome him because all what God required from imperfect humans is humility {Zephaniah 2:2-3} and that thief did just so. You too can do the same by considering the prophecy about Jesus' brothers who are spiritual Jews {Zechariah 8:23} but if you're contemplating on the evil that's befalling them due to the handiworks of faithless people then don't compare yourself with that thief. He had every reason to doubt Jesus who can't save himself!

Good. Wonderful. So we can now see that someone who was not baptized made it to the kingdom. In other words, someone who is not a JW, if we use the JW understanding, made it to God's kingdom. Isn't that revealing?

It must be done in an ORGANIZED manner not just randomly so only JWs are doing that.

Alright your concern is organization. I get it. Well, many churches today are organized.

Don't hesitate to talk because whatever you're hearing now is your chance of knowing the TRUTH otherwise please ignore me

My oga. I am local.

Individual judgment will come after Christ's 1,000 years by that time all those living on this planet would have become perfect so it will be what each person turns out to be that will determine their judgment {Revelations 20:13} but for now it's humility and righteousness that God is using {Zephaniah 2:2-3} that humility means to submit to the imperfect Governing Body chosen to gather Jesus' earthly subjects in preparation of his coming kingdom! Matthew 24:45

So whoever feels like picking at their mistakes thinking Jesus will consider his/her self righteousness is deceiving himself! Matthew 25:41-46

You said individual judgment will come after Christs thousand year reign. Is that your understanding or the teaching of JWs?

I agree with this. That's the meaning of that Rev 20;13 you quoted. Fantastic!. After Christ reign, not during. But that's not what JWs teach.

It's good to know that you do your bible study and differ with JW doctrine in some areas. That makes you sincere if you ask me.

Although it is on the "would have become perfect" aspect that I don't know how you arrived at that. If the judgment will be after the thousand year reign, how will all be perfect from the grave?

MaxInDHouse:

If you mean from an ORGANIZED PEOPLE, YES!
The Christian congregation replaced Israel and Jehovah's Witnesses organization replaced the churches of Christendom today. So God never used two groups at any time!

You didn't get my point. We have established that humans err in trying to understand the bible. What I'm asking if it is reasonable to think that the correct understanding will always issue from one particular group of bible students.

There are bible scholars in different parts of the world. Since we are all fallible in understanding what the bible says, can we now say that the correct understanding of the bible will always come from one source that is also in itself fallible? Do you not see a possibility of Group A being right in one teaching and Group B being wrong, or Group A being wrong while Group B being right? Or even Group A and B being all wrong? Or even One Scholar being right while either Group being wrong?

Of course Jesus was talking about a group that is why he prayed to his father for them to have the same line of {John 17:22} that can't be real if the truth can come from different groups.

That's another scripture you refer to there. Iam discussing Matt 7 that you quoted earlier.

If we say that Jesus meant a group or a religion/denomination will it not mean that all in that group are all prophets? So you should look out for a group composed of prophesying prophets, of which all of them are fake? I can't recall any denomination that all members are prophets. If there is, then from your interpretation, it will mean that other churches that are not composed of all prophets are not being meant by Jesus words. That doesn't make sense, does it?

Seriously, Jesus meant false prophets, not any denomination.

True, if a false prophet is a GO of a church, then it's members are in danger. But a GO might be a true prophet but one or two members are false prophets. That's possible too. The GO won't be false because some in the church are false,right?

But of course, even if the reference was to a false denomination, it doesn't mean that all denominations are all false. Does it?

Jesus told us that his own group will always have the same line of thought {John 17:22} but as for divisive individuals they will be scattered spiritually speaking {Luke 11:23} meaning they cannot think alike hence when politics and racism calls they will start killing themselves! Revelations 6:3-4

Why are you adding what the verse didn't say. Jesus was praying for them to be one. Of course they are one, but it didn't mean that they never argued, that they never quarrelled, that none ever left Christianity for something else from first century till date. Is that true? They were not always thinking one thing. This should be easy for you to understand na bros.

We have Judas Iscariot, we have Hemeneaus and Phylectus, and Diotrephes, false apostles in Corinth etc. They will not all think one thing always.

God chose Israel but when the Northern ten tribes began worshiping idols God rejected them and concentrated on the two Southern tribes, the north is called Samaritans while the south is called Jews. Jesus later confirmed that the true God has abandoned Samaritans and their form of worship! John 4:22

If your meaning of reject is that God became angry with them, sent them on exile, allowed them to be defeated by their enemies, then I agree. We all know that that didn't mean that God rejected them, rather it was to discipline them to make amends. If they changed, he rescues them. Is that what you mean by reject? If so, I agree.

But that's not what I mean. I mean total rejection as His people and never ever taken them back as His people. Did God ever do that? Was it not till Jesus came and they nailed him that the Jews as a tribe were totally rejected as God's people in favor of the Israel of God?

Do you agree? I think your comment below mean you agree.

God never gave supernatural GIFTS to anyone outside Israel that's why Jesus said that such gifts are for only Israelites {Matthew 15:24} so the gifts continued for some times after Jesus in other for the Israelites to RECOGNIZE the one and only group practicing pure worship in the first century since there were several groups claiming worshipers of the God of Abraham. But after Christianity has been firmly established all such supernatural gifts ceased! 1Corinthians 13:8-10

Now it's only LOVE that will serve as evidence of pure worship {1Corinthians 13:13} as for supernatural gifts it has ended in the first century after Jesus declared saying NO ADDITION NO SUBTRACTION! Revelations 22:18-19
Thanks!

You said God didn't give the supernatural gift to anyone outside Israel. Perhaps you mean that when the supernatural gift was given during pentecost, it was only the Jews and perhaps also circumcised gentiles that received the gift. I don't want to believe that you mean to say that it was only the Jews that had such miraculous power all throughout the first century. That's not what you mean right?

There are some that believe that the power ceased back then. They reach their conclusion through deduction. The bible didnt say that that power will cease in the first century. Even if it ended, assuming the deduction were correct, we live in the last days where the prophecy of Joel, quoted by Peter, should have another fulfillment. It will now be a matter of debate to conclude if that fulfillment is happening now or it will happen in the future. But since we are almost at the end of this world, one will think that it is plausible that this prophecy should be fulfilling now.

About Rev 22:18-19, I want to believe you are just joking because you and I know that that's not what that scripture mean, right?

MaxInDHouse:


Individual judgment is not now!

The first thing is to be obedient to Jesus' born again brothers and readiness to work with them {Matthew 25:34-40} whoever is no one of Jehovah's Witnesses cannot be saved!

I wonder where you got that from. Perhaps that's your understanding. The witnesses do not teach that if you're not a JW, you won't be saved. As far as I know, they don't know that for sure. They live the judgment for Jesus.

I assume that's your own belief. But it's good to be let Jesus make that decision. Seriously, you can't know for sure what he will decide. Remember that criminal at his right hand, who knows that even though he is not baptized, nor follow Jesus, he was saved. That should humble us to let the God appointed judge do his work.

The only thing that can make you escape the coming destruction is when you are seriously studying with JWs and making progress that's the only way your name can enter God's memory book! Malachi 3:16

That's not what that scripture says. Any christian can do what that Malachi says, not minding his denomination. Right?

Individual judgment will come after Christ's 1,000 years by that time all those living on this planet would have become perfect so it will be what each person turns out to be that will determine their judgment {Revelations 20:13} but for now it's humility and righteousness that God is using {Zephaniah 2:2-3} that humility means to submit to the imperfect Governing Body chosen to gather Jesus' earthly subjects in preparation of his coming kingdom! Matthew 24:45

So whoever feels like picking at their mistakes thinking Jesus will consider his/her self righteousness is deceiving himself! Matthew 25:41-46

There lots of wrong statements made here. Would you want to talk about it?

MaxInDHouse:


Ọmọ only JWs are practicing pure worship!

That's ok. That's how you see it. Another person here can say the same of his own church or religion.

Keep up your morality no matter where you are. When the day of reckoning comes, we shall know for sure. I believe God will judge us individually.

MaxInDHouse:


All creatures are souls based on how related they are to others but the character is what God values!
You can destroy a person's body giving him no chance to continue living but you can't erase the character from God's memory! Matthew 10:28
So while all of us are growing old and expiring many are forgotten to rotten in their graves {Psalms 9:17} while some are safely kept in God's memory book for a chance to live again! Job 14:13-15

Character is more important in the eyes of God, not just the flesh. True. I agree. But the use of soul in the bible seems to be what the guy is talking about. As you say, all creatures are souls. That is the aspect he needs. If you say character is soul, then I don't know if that is what JWs teach. Maybe that's your understanding.

Are we on the same page?

MaxInDHouse:

YES!

Right!


Correct!

Thanks for being open minded.

I disagree with you on this point!
All the religious groups on this planet are roving about searching for God in whatever way they know but then God's word says there are certain things that will help sincere individual to KNOW those who are truly worshiping God out of all these religions.
God said during the end time when everyone is busy on how to make a living we will notice some people always discussing with their neighbours and the main focus of their discussion will be (1) God's name (2) righteousness of God {Malachi 3:16} God's word goes further saying the end result of this movement will help many to distinguish between true worshipers and fake! Malachi 3:18
So despite the fact that all were searching for God it's evident that the group visiting people in their homes to discuss about the name of the most high God {John 17:6,26} are the only group doing God's will {Matthew 7:21} that's why they're able to fulfill what is written in the Bible book of Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

Sorry you seem to miss the point of my comment. Maybe I didn't word it so well. What I mean is, since no one can say for sure what understanding is not fallible, unless he is supernaturally directed, both your scholars and other scholars are striving to understand the bible. Since we all can't claim infallibility in understanding this divine word, will it not be reasonable to admit that we may be wrong in this and others are right or we may be right in this while another is wrong or that it is even possible that both of us are wrong? Will it be reasonable to think that which ever truth that will ever exist must ALWAYS come from a particular group of men?

What do you think?

Jesus has settled this point with the his words found @ Matthew 7:16-18 the only group of people meeting up with the expectations as prophesied in God's word has the pure worship while all others are FAKE!

True fake prophets are real. We need to be careful about such ones. In fact that is why I have a thread to know if there is any prophet that has a reputation of true prophecies because while the Devil can thrive in miracles, he can't always foretell the future accurately. In fact God used that as a challenge to false gods in Isaiah.

Jesus was not there talking about a group, but specifically the prophets and perhaps false miracle workers. Of course by saying that, Jesus doesn't mean that there are no true prophets. No. He was in fact talking about fake ones.

If they do not there's no reason meeting together since it's evident that they're not achieving anything worthwhile. Revelations 3:16

No. Divisive individuals will always come. Both during when Jesus was with his apostles, or when the apostles formed churches, there were occasions of argument, disagreement, disunity. Christ is dealing with humans, he knows that such divisions will manifest one way or another. That's why he gave the command so that they will at least make effort. Not everyone will obey the command to be united in thought or doctrine.

I totally disagree with this!

First of all it's pure worship that makes Israel God's people whatever makes them worship other gods they're no longer His people {Deuteronomy 32:5} God is the creator of all flesh so the only reason why He's related to them is pure worship in the absence of that they're no longer His people! Exodus 19:5

I don't think you understand me. The point I was making is about division in Israel. Did all tribes or individuals in Israel always agree on one thing? For example did the Southern tribe and Northern tribe always agree? Were the Israelites always doing what God wanted them to do? Did God reject them all those times and chose another nation?

Do you understand me now?

As for supernatural gifts Jesus made it clear that there are two things we need to take note regarding God's Holy Spirit:
GIFT and FRUIT!

Just like a tree God's Holy Spirit is supernatural just like demonic powers so demons can also perform miracles that's why Jesus warned us not to be carried away with such GIFTS! Matthew 7:21-23

A tree could be huge , tall and thick, sweet smell, it's leaves may serve as a shade under the hot Sun or medicinal, it's stem may be good for timber supplies so Jesus never asked us to trust in their GIFTS but their FRUIT:

The fruit must be exactly the same fruit that the first century Jewish disciples produced back then. A mango tree will always produce mango so instead of blurring our senses with the gifts which could be found in some other trees Jesus said:

"By their FRUITS you will know" Matthew 7:16

Don't be deceived Sir there are supernatural GIFTS in so many religions otherwise people will not stick to those religions if they're not seeing anything supernatural but then only the true religion will continue to bear the fruitage of FAITH!

Good point. Nice one. I have always been of the point that we should be careful of fake people. We don't have to be too believing otherwise we are gone.

We however should not go to the other extreme of saying that no true prophet exists. I mean while saying the above, we won't think that Jesus was saying that there are no true miracles or prophets. We know that after he died and went to heaven, he poured out a spirit that made people to perform miracles and prophesied. His warning about fakes won't mean that we shouldn't accept the miracle that came after Jesus went to heaven. In fact those miracles were proves that God no longer approves Judaism but has chosen Christianity. So that was unmistakable stamp of God's approval. But the disciples back then still manifested the christian FRUITAGE while still performing miracles. So while talking about fruitage, know that those back then manifested these fruits and still performed miracles. But there are fakes for sure.

It is hard to know which power is behind a miracle, but one thing is sure, what does that miracle worker teach? What is his conduct? For me, I recommend checking if he is a prophet to see if his prophecies always come true. To me that will make a lot of sense.

Courz:


Big Fool! Look at the rubbish you typed. Which one is Soul is the character, body is the Meat? Where did you get such rubbish from? Where is it in the Bible that souls are characters? You didn't even show Bible verses to prove this nonsense! You JWs are very bad in explaining your doctrines. How on earth is it proper to use Guesswork to explain verses? Foolish Janosky said one thing, you are saying another showing your answers are not consistent and also shows you JWs are very confused people.

Let's replace Soul with Character. So, what you're saying is Jesus meant that, Fear not those who kill the meat but cannot kill the Character. Fear the one who kills both Meat and Character.

Mad MaxInDHouse, does the above sentence look like something coming from a sane person to you? Does this look like what is written in the Bible? Show me from the Bible where it says Soul is the Character.

JWs teach that soul is a person. That is actually true from my understanding. Perhaps the guy doesn't understand what JWs teach or he himself has his own understanding of the meaning of a soul.

Using that understanding it wouldn't go against the fact that the souls asked for their blood to be avenged. The soul in that book of Revelation would represent the righteous persons that had arisen to heaven.

As for the spirits in prison. There are differences of opinions here. One school of thought says is refers to the spirits of the humans killed by the flood, while another says it refers to the fallen angels who disobeyed during the time of Noah.

Which one makes sense to you and why?

MaxInDHouse:


So what do you think about Jesus being the "Prince of Peace" {Isaiah 9:6} yet there are over 41,000 of sects in contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines {Luke 11:23} all claiming denominations under Christ {2Corinthians 4:4} and not only that they're all engaging in politics, racism and military services which leads them into killing one another {Revelations 6:3-4} yet they're claiming they believe in Jesus' coming government (Kingdom) Matthew 6:10

There are various reasons that make that happen. Some form churches when no one called them, no appearance by God's angel, no inspired direction for a ministry. They just open a church to make money or for other reasons best known to them. Others open church because of wrong understanding of the bible. They are sincere, but wrong understanding of the bible led them to form the church. It doesn't matter the reason, Jesus says that in the harvest, he will collect from the word any whose service is ok in his sight. Till then, we worship God in spirit and truth till the day of reckoning. Worship of God knows no building or church name, but the heart.

But one has to obey the basic teachings of the bible. But we shouldn't judge who will or who will not make it, only God can decide that. Because if you want to talk about doctrine, logically a teaching might make sense, but be humble to accept this truth; unless you have an inspired direction, you cannot be sure of which persons doctrine is right or wrong. There are exceptions, yes, but unless God tells you, you may be wrong but you think you're right in a teaching. The history of JWs should even prove that point.

MaxInDHouse:


Jesus said:

But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you. I leave you peace; I give you my peace. I do not give it to you the way that the world gives it. Do not let your hearts be troubled nor let them shrink out of fear. John 14:26-27

According to the above quote Jesus' presence will be replaced by God's Holy Spirit because that's what God promised the Jews {Joel 2:28; Act 2:16-18}} it will be as a sign of approval only for Jews that have accepted the counsel of the Christ. Act 2:39
The HOLY SPIRIT doesn't make imperfect humans become perfect rather just as Jesus Christ was in their midst teaching them while they're making mistakes over and over again regarding what he taught them they will still continue to make the same kind of mistakes now that the one teaching them is an invisible force. So the one and only evidence that they're acting in line with what the spirit teaches them is LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, GOODNESS, GENTLENESS, FAITH, MILDNESS and SELF-CONTROL {Galatians 5:22-23} that's the FRUIT Jesus talked about {Matthew 7:16-18} they're not going to become perfect in their understanding NO! NO!! NO!!! But as the LOVE permeates their gathering everywhere they are that will assure them that they are truly getting the sense of what the Holy Spirit is teaching them {John 13:34-35} because that's what Jesus supposed to achieve in the gathering of imperfect humans making the best use of his wonderful counsel as the Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6} God is LOVE {1John 4:8} therefore God's people can't worship Him acceptably in the absence of LOVE! 1Corinthians 13:13

The only difference is that under inspiration God's Holy Spirit will PERFECTLY direct the mind of one of them to pen down words that will be recorded as part of the inspired word of God {2Timothy 3:16} but when it comes to the understanding of what the Holy Spirit inspired the writer to pen down even the one inspired still needs to sit down with other anointed brothers and pray for Jesus to come and direct them on the practical application of what they got and of course Jesus will come into their midst as an invisible mighty spirit {Matthew 18:20} he must not say a word since his own assignment has completed he must allow them to use their brains to figure out the practical application as they meditate thoroughly on what they received. So what will be the undeniable evidence that Jesus Christ is the chairman of their gathering?
Note that even when he was with them in the flesh they still make mistakes trying to grasp what he taught them, surely they will still make mistakes but then as LOVE and PEACE works out perfectly among them they can be rest assured that they're doing exactly what Jesus directed them to do. John 14:26-27

God bless you and may you have PEACE!

Maybe you didn't even get my point because you seem to be saying the same thing I have in mind. We agree that the apostles made mistakes in UNDERSTANDING. But don't you agree that it wasn't the spirit that led them to a wrong understanding. Do we agree on that?

I agree that when God's spirit moves them to utter inspired word, that word is accurate and cannot change. However, to understand all that they were inspired to pen down needs careful study of those inspired expressions. This I agree you believe as well, right?

Now what if they err in their understanding of what the spirit inspired or what Jesus said, can we say it was the spirit that led them to those wrong understanding? From the bold faced words, I think your answer is no.

So we can see that we can not say that being wrong in understanding what either Jesus or God's word says is being led by the spirit. The GB, as well as other scholars are roving about to understand these things. The understanding is not limited to a group of men.

Unless you have an inspired direction on a point, you do not have any right to condemn others who try to understand the same bible that you also struggle to understand. You can be right in one point and they are wrong, or you can be wrong in that point and they are right. Or it could even be that both of you are all wrong.

What do you think?

2. While I agree on your point of the fruit of the spirit, and yes as John 13:34-35 says, love will help people to identify the christians, but let it be known that John 13:34,35 is a command. Jesus is not saying that love will supernaturally be in their midst to identify them as his disciples. Take note of the word IF in that verse. Jesus is saying that if they have love, if they cultivate that quality, people will know them as his disciples, but if they do not, that doesn't mean that they are not his disciples, it only means that people will not identify them as his disciples. It will be hard for people to see them as such because obviously they are not united. It however, does not mean that they are not his disciples.

Ancient Israel was largely divided as some time, they also worshiped other gods, that didn't mean that they are no longer God's people, but it will be hard for others to know that. In fact even the apostles had divisive moments in their history. What showed God's favor with them was the unmatched miraculous work issuing from them. That was the unmistakable stamp of God's approval even while they had some issues amongst them.

Do you agree with this?

MaxInDHouse:


Ọmọ you quoted Jesus out of context!

Jesus said you should watch out for FALSE PROPHETS {Matthew 7:15} and immediately added "by their FRUITS you will know them" Matthew 7:16
So Jesus didn't say "by their wrong expectation" because that will make John the baptist and Jesus' disciples false prophets as they both had wrong expectations!

What you should be watchful of is not the mistakes faithful people made due to their expectations but whether they're WORKING OUT what is expected of Christ's true disciples! James 2:18-26

John had wrong expectations about the Christ {Matthew 11:3} and the Apostles had wrong expectations about the time the Kingdom of God will be established! Act 1:6

So you quoted Jesus out of context!

But do you agree that those apostles didn't say that God's spirit was directing them to have those understanding? So we can agree that what the Gov Body does is just studying to understand the scriptures, not that any spirit is directing the study?

MaxInDHouse:

Jesus Christ is God's only begotten Son through whose teaching man must be saved! John 3:16

I agree. That's basic.

MaxInDHouse:


The highlighted is why you can't be my brother but neighbour because you won't agree with the basic teachings of the Bible!

Which one do I not agree?

Since it is tricky to know an anointed of God only through miraculous works, I was wondering if there is any prophet in our time that is known for unfailing Prophecy. Do you know any?

MaxInDHouse:


That's what we call TRUTH but if you feel it's not then keep whatever you know we are OK!

It's allowed. What matters is morality. When we enter God's kingdom, then we shall get perfect understanding. 1cor 13:8-13

While we can disagree on doctrine, we shouldn't think that God would disqualify another because of doctrine when he accepts the basic teachings of the bible.

Be good brotherly.

MaxInDHouse:


Sorry for the late response i was at a cork take party, today is my friend's wedding anniversary.

Please hold your Bible at hand and let's do the digging for spiritual gems!

The Bible is God's message to mankind and it's like a guidebook or manual God gave us. The entire human race are faced with one problem and that's how to know the source of divine guidance, since demons are also disguising as angels of light {2Corinthians 14:11} many books has been written all in the name of Holy scriptures. So God told us what to expect from the source of divine wisdom {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} according to this verses God's Holy Spirit will move round the earth and gathered millions of faithful people in all races, they will become like a global family using the Bible as their guidebook, they will use what they found in God's word to settle all their racial disparities among themselves, divert their resources into production of food and information materials, erased the making, buying, selling and usage of weapons in their hearts and vow never to raise weapons against anyone again!

Jesus said there will be falsehood during the endtime as Satan's agents will be serving as prophets {Matthew 7:15} but by their end result you will know them {Matthew 7:16} because those who are truly connected to Christ will be the only one yielding positive results! Matthew 7:17-18

Please let me know if there is any other group claiming Christians that is producing what God said at Isaiah 2:2-4 and Micah 4:1-3 apart from Jehovah's Witnesses. If there's any other group then we have to consider those feeding them spiritually speaking to ascertain if they're also part of the faithful and discreet slave Jesus foretold during the endtime! Matthew 24:45


Thanks for your time!

No group. Not even Jehovah's witnesses. Nations today still learn war and fight one another. The prophesy has Jerusalem in mind. It contrast Jerusalem, the Jews to nations, gentiles. So contextually, this is not happening. Perhaps it will happen when God's kingdom come. I can't remember any nation that has ceased from fighting.

If you want to give it a figurative interpretation, then it is open to biased interpretation.

Courz:


But why was the congregation closed by Watchtower, the Elders were removed and the members of the congregation were threatened with Disfellowshipping when they spoke out? Those actions speak volumes and tells you the intent. Watchtower are theives!

Watchtower is a Business. Charles Taze Russell said so. Only JWs haven't taken the hint.

It could be true, but we can't be sure of that. The court didn't confirm such claim.

Courz:


For it to get to this point where Sisters are roving mics means the Cult is close to its grave.

Do you know that a very young boy was asked to give opening prayer in a Zoom Meeting in the U.S? Where are the mature brothers?

And so what? Is there teachings against that? Do you know if the boy was baptized?

Courz:


Learn to read and understand. Have it in mind that these Kingdom halls were built by JWs by their own contributions for it. But Watchtower did some maneuvers unknown to JWs to own the halls. Watchtower then sell the halls and keep the money for themselves. Nothing goes to JWs. Money only flows one way in the JW religion. From JWs to Watchtower only and not the other way around. No charities. No giving.

Religious leaders do not have the right to scam their members. Are you a Religion or a Business? Watchtower is a Business but JWs are not aware. Watchtower is registered as an NGO But never gives to JWs or is never involved in any Charity work. It never helps the needy amongst JWs. That should concern anyone.

I was born into this religion. That is why it concerns me.

Talking about scam, look at the 1st pic below. That's a scam there from Watchtower.

Want to see another scam? Read the article in the link below. Watchtower stole a congregation's money and the Elders sued them.

https://jwleaks.org/scandals/menlo-park-congregation/

According to the case by Cobb, his case was rejected and told to amend his claims. So his accusations were not confirmed as true.

Templee333:

you've made some valid points above,but the guy u're addressing will never agree with you. Maybe you've not known him for long. Just wait & see.

If I realize that, I will move. I don't have time to waste. Let me give him benefit of the doubt.

MaxInDHouse:


Sorry i never saw this in time not until the runaway OP quoted you!

There's scriptural proof that confirmed the GB as the one and only channel through which Bible truth flow today. If you're open minded we can discuss on that!




Of course i can't agree unless i see evidence in any other group!

Let me see the proof that show that the GB of JWs is the only channel.

Courz:
More.....

GB = Governing Body.

The post in the first pic is explaining the Watchtower scam on the JWs in that Kingdom hall.

Have it in mind that these Kingdom halls were built by JWs by their own contributions for it. But Watchtower did some maneuvers unknown to JWs to owns the halls. They then sell the halls and keep the money. Nothing goes to JWs. Money only flows one way in the JW religion. From JWs to Watchtower only and not the other way around. No charities. No giving.

And how does that concern you? Religious leaders determine how their properties are used and sold. Did you hear anyone ran away with the money for private use?

MaxInDHouse:

Former members of all groups tend to behave that way. While some may have something to say about their former faith to which any new member should bear in mind, most of them do not have sound basis for leaving. Listen to those that have good reasons to present and let alone those that are just angry for nothing.

But bear in mind that no one christian group has monopoly on truth. Secondly, even in divergent views, God can chose anyone from any group for salvation and as His servant. The issue with the GB is that they see themselves as the only channel through which bible truth can flow. That is false. But you can reject the premise, be open minded and worship with them. I am familiar with the witnesses doctrines.

HantaVirus:
Hello everyone

I have been seeing this moniker Righteousness2 always stating that Babylon the great is America....This is a wrong notion....
Babylon the Great is not America,Rome,False religion or The Catholic church.

Revelations clearly states that Babylon is a city ( Revelations 17 vs 1, vs 18) Is America a city? �

A woman in the bible represent a church or God's people...... Jerusalem/Israel used to be God's people but they always turn their back on God....They also worshipped idols.

For you to know that Babylon the great is Jerusalem, ponder on this.

* John the apostle was amazed after seeing this woman riding a beast (Revelations 17 vs 6-7) because she just saw the same woman giving birth to the savior of the world and lamb of God ( Revelations 12 vs 5)
* The symbolism of the whor-e of Babylon refers not to an invading infidel or foreign power....We all know the empires that have ruled the world always persecute Jerusalem. It refers to an apostate false queen, a former "bride" who has been unfaithful and who, even though she has been divorced and cast out because of unfaithfulness, continues to falsely claim to be the "queen" of the spiritual realm( Revelations 18 vs 7)

* So many passages in Revelations called Babylon the "Great city" .....In Revelations 11 vs 8  - It states that the body of the two witnesses of God will lie in the " Great city" where their lord was crucified....Was Jesus Christ crucified in America?

* Revelations 18 vs 20 also states that it was this "Great city" that killed the Apostles and Prophets.

*Righteousness2
*jesusjnr2020
*Kobojunkiee

I am enjoying the argument. But wasn't Babylon in existence at this time? How about Rome?