Iwillbeback: Why is Christ the angel of the Lord ?
The Angel of the Lord Fulfills the same role as Christ: The Bible says "no one has seen God at any time," But Christ, who is God the second person of the trinity, has revealed exactly what God is like. If we want to know more about God then we look to Jesus. The Angel of the Lord fulfills the same roll as mediator between man and God, both in the Old Testament and the New. After Jesus incarnation, the angel of the Lord is no longer mentioned.
The Angel of the Lord Identifies Himself as God: The Angel of the Lord is also called names which God reserves for Himself alone. When the Angel of the Lord appeared in the burning bush (Ex 3:2), He is called "the LORD (Yahweh)" (Exodus 3:. The Angel of the Lord also appeared to Abraham who called Him "Lord (Yahweh)" (Genesis 18:1). In Genesis 18 there were three angels who visited Abraham but when the other two left to go to Sodom, Abraham was left standing next to the "LORD" (Genesis 18:22). Similarly the Angel of the Lord identifies Himself as "wonderful" to Manoah's wife (Judges 13:18) - Jesus is the "wonderful counselor" (Isaiah 9:6). The angel of the Lord also answered Manoah's wife prayer which she had "prayed to the LORD." (Judges 13: He also received worship which no angel (apart from Satan) would do. John was rebuked by an Angel when he fell at it's feet in worship, the angel told John to only "worship God." Jesus received worship and so did the angel of the Lord.(Joshua 5:14-15)
The Angel of the Lord is a different person than the LORD: Even though the Angel of the Lord is identified as LORD (Yahweh), He is a different person than the LORD. In Zecharia 1:12-13 He speaks to the "Lord Almighty." This is an example of the Son speaking to the Father, just like in Psalm 110:1, or the Father speaking to the Son in Psalm 45:6 (CF Hebrews 1: Therefore in light of the three points above, the Angel of the Lord has to be Christ.
Thank you all for reading
Jesus is the Angel of the Lord. That alone shows he is God.
Courz: This is an interview made by an Anointed ExJW interviewing a Couple who are also Anointed. They give their testimony as to how they joined Jehovah's Witnesses, how they discovered they are Anointed and were partaking of the Bread and the Wine. The Man is also an Ex Bethelite who witnessed some events not fitting for a Holy Place they call Bethel Headquarters in the U.S.
He says while he was at Bethel, he witnessed widespread Drunkenness amongst Bethelites especially amongst the JW Leaders they call Governing body and other members of the Watchtower Hierarchy. He also said he saw Prostitution and Witchcraft. He didn't want to delve into the Witchcraft thing because he didn't want the interviewer's Youtube channel to get flagged or banned. So, he said to have a clue about this topic, do research on JW Founder Charles Taze Russell, his background and his Occultic lineage, research on where JWs used to meet before they had Kingdom Halls and also do research on the specific Fraternity that Watchtower is affiliated with.
He and his wife give their testimony as to how they started having doubts and made the final decision to Leave JW.
This video is for Jehovah's Witnesses who are seriously doubting the JW organisation, who are JW PIMOs and who have an interest in the "Anointed" topic.
This video is also proof that there are Jehovah's Witnesses who do not believe in the JW Doctrines and have been worshipping as they see fit according to the Bible and not according to the Governing body rules. The truth is, if you decide to only listen to the Bible, You Must Leave JW eventually because Jesus who sets us Free must free you from the shackles of Watchtower.
MaxInDHouse: Read the Bible book of Isaiah 2:2-4 and Micah 4:1-3 again:
*In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream.
*And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.” For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.
*He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore.
* It must be people who have come from all nations on planet earth!
* They must be studying the Bible with people around them apart from studying in their place of worship.
* They will use what they found in God's word to resolve their disparities peacefully among themselves divert their resources into production of food and information materials stop producing buying selling and using weapons and vow never to raise weapons against anyone!
So Mr PIMO are those religions known in your village as preachers coming to disturb them for Bible study like Jehovah's Witnesses often does? Matthew 10:11-13
The scripture you used to show God Spirit is on your religion because of not bearing arms didnt say "they must", "they must". The prophecy is about uniting people peacefully without them learning war of fighting. So if God spirit is with you just because you don't fight, the same applies to the others. You can't shift the goal post now.
MaxInDHouse: The true God promised to unite faithful people of all the nations so that they will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. They will not lift up sword against one another, nor will they learn war anymore. Isaiah 2:4b Micah 4:3b
So the FRUIT of God's Holy Spirit {Galatians 5:22-23} will affect the gathering of true believers {Matthew 7:16-18} and makes them stand out as different from all other religions! Matthew 5:14-16
Do you know any organization working towards this?
Surely it's God's Holy Spirit that's doing it not the imperfect humans gathered together! Zechariah 4:6
Several religious organizations teach pacifism and discourage or prohibit their members from engaging in war. Some of the most well-known groups include:
1. Quakers (Religious Society of Friends) – They are well known for their strong pacifist stance and have historically refused to bear arms.
2. Seventh-day Adventists (Historic Position) – While not universally pacifist, many Adventists have served as conscientious objectors, working as medics instead of soldiers.
3. Mennonites – They follow the Anabaptist tradition, which emphasizes nonviolence and a rejection of military service.
4. Amish – Like the Mennonites, they uphold a strict stance against violence and war.
5. Christadelphians – They believe in political neutrality and do not engage in military service.
6. Doukhobors – A Christian sect from Russia, known for their pacifist beliefs and refusal to serve in the military.
So not only JWs. I don't see that as any proof of God's backing anyway. But since that's your proof, these ones must also have God's spirit. Right?
Courz: I want to add something I didn't mention earlier. You found out that Watchtower was part of the U.N right? What did they call the U.N? Is it not the Wild Beast? Okay. What is the role of the Wild Beast? The Wild Beast is an arm of Satan's Kingdom, doing his bidding and implementing his agendas upon the whole world right? To be a member of the U.N, you also need to promote their agenda. Watchtower for many years now do not talk ill about the U.N. Instead, they quote their articles in their Publications. They even take Gilead students for sight seeing To the U.N. Gilead students have revealed this. To also be a member of the U.N which is an arm of Satan, you must be affiliated with Satanic Cults. That's the part unknown to most people who don't understand the role of the U.N. Since you are part of the Wild Beast, you will do the bidding of Satan but you won't do it in public else the deception of Satan upon the world through these organisations will not work. This is how Secrecy is implemented in all Satanic Cults. A show off of a Pious religious image is very important to Satan. People who have worked with Satan will tell you this. Deception cannot work when there is no Secrecy. So, it doesn't matter what a Religion preaches to it's members regarding Spiritism or the Occult. Contradiction is a Trait of Watchtower. All of that is just for Image purposes to deceive the gullible to think they have Morals and have an appearance of Holiness/One True Religion. What they do behind closed doors when no one is looking, except God and Jesus, is what matters. That's why the Hypocrisy of Watchtower is very high. Do as I say but not as I do. Modern day Pharisees! This is why Jesus said There is nothing that has been hidden that will not be exposed. Just like Smoke rising up for all to see, is the way Child Sexual Abuse is being exposed in JW as a sign of Occultism.
You finding out about Watchtower being part of the U.N is supposed to give you a clue of their affiliations with the Occult because of what the U.N stands for. Their Billionaire status is supposed to make you pause and ask yourself how they achieved it since they love to preach to JWs about living a simple life. It is either you are for Satan's Kingdom or you are against it. There are reports of Child Sexual abuse happening in the U.N, are you aware about this? Research it. Anywhere Child Sexual abuse and Human Trafficking exist, Satan dwells and is in charge there. All organisations and Religions having Cases of these activities are for Satan. In order to have the Billionaire status Watchtower has, you must be part of these Cults engaging in the same underground Satanic activities they all engage in. It is a Must else you won't have Power over people and Wealth from Satan himself.
You might be right, I just need strong proof. As you said, they didn't shout support UN from the roof top, nor write the elders telling them to support them. Although some articles supported the UN in a coded way. So it's possible that they could do be occultic but never promote it in the meetings.
But what will be the use of such occultic organization when they don't instruct the members either directly or indirectly to join the occult.but they rather discourage it. So I would say, if it is true, only the leaders are part of that just as no JWs member is told to seek political office, not even in UN. So the leaders don't lead by example. They do what they tell their member not to do. That can only be the conclusion.
There and been a growing interest in the UAP or UFOs especially after the US Congress hearing on the matter last year.
If you have been following the story, you will realize that even the government are aware of superhuman intelligence that are around us. Some whistleblowers have been coming up to disclose that such hidden truths had been part of US government coverup operations.
NewsNation has been on this investigation, and did interview one US undercover agents who had worked with this secret UAP program.
Courz: Okay. I know it is long. Take your time with It. It is a Mixture of Two Audios and Two Videos from an Ex Bethelite. If you want something shorter, the video below is another testimony from Uganda confirming the Audios and Videos in case you haven't seen it. If you want some context to understand the lady's background, you can start from the beginning but if you want to go straight to where she mentioned JW, You can start from Timestamp 18:56. Pay attention to what she is describing, the info she is giving, what her husband is asking her and replying her. Bear in mind that she is not familiar with JW terminologies.
From which where did she start talking about Jehovah's witnesses.?
Personally I would need strong, I mean strong proof that Jehovah's witnesses are occultic as an organization. I am not talking about some individuals there, but as an organization. I served as an elder there for years, I didn't see any letter or direction from any circuit overseer approving or promoting occultic practices. I think for someone like me, I will need not just a story, but a verifiable evidence to believe it like the UN membership.
Some individuals, even from the headquarters might get into this occultism, but I don't see that ever promoted or supported as an organization.
I can believe they are more watchtower corporation oriented than any occultism.
Sir Lionel Luckhoo is well accomplished defence attorney, he examined the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus and this made him a Christian. I wrote a short story about him. Enjoy.
The Case of the Empty Tomb
In a bustling courtroom, Sir Lionel Luckhoo stood before a panel of skeptical jurors. Renowned as the world's most successful defense attorney, his presence commanded attention. Today, however, his goal was not to defend a client but to present the case for the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
"Ladies and gentlemen," Sir Lionel began, "as a lawyer who has handled hundreds of cases involving complex evidence, I approach this matter as I would any courtroom trial. Let's examine the facts."
He paced the room, holding up a parchment. "The resurrection of Jesus hinges on three key pieces of evidence: the empty tomb, the eyewitness testimonies, and the transformation of the disciples."
Exhibit A: The Empty Tomb "First, the tomb. All historical sources, including Roman and Jewish records, agree that the tomb was empty. If the body had been stolen by the disciples, how could they have bypassed trained Roman guards? These guards faced execution for failure in duty. Moreover, if the Jewish or Roman authorities had the body, why not produce it to quash the growing Christian movement?"
The jurors nodded thoughtfully.
Exhibit B: Eyewitness Testimonies "Second, eyewitness testimonies. Over 500 people claimed to have seen Jesus alive after His death (1 Corinthians 15:6). These were not fleeting visions but tangible encounters—eating, touching, conversing. Many of these witnesses were willing to suffer and die for their claims. Ask yourself: who dies for what they know is a lie?"
Sir Lionel's voice grew firmer. "As a lawyer, I’ve examined the credibility of witnesses countless times. These accounts are consistent and compelling, given the stakes for the witnesses."
Exhibit C: Transformed Lives "Finally, consider the disciples. Before the resurrection, they were fearful, hiding from the authorities. Afterward, they boldly proclaimed Christ’s resurrection, even under threat of death. Peter, who denied Jesus three times, became a fearless leader. Saul of Tarsus, a persecutor of Christians, transformed into Paul, the apostle, after encountering the risen Christ."
He paused, scanning the room. "What explains this drastic change? Hallucinations don’t transform lives, and lies crumble under pressure. Only a genuine encounter with the risen Jesus can account for such transformation."
The Verdict "Ladies and gentlemen," Sir Lionel concluded, "in every trial, we seek evidence 'beyond a reasonable doubt.' The evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ is overwhelming. No alternative explanation sufficiently accounts for the empty tomb, the eyewitness testimonies, and the transformation of His followers. The resurrection is not a myth; it is a historical reality."
The courtroom fell silent as the jurors absorbed the presentation. One skeptic raised his hand and said, "I came here unconvinced, but your case leaves little room for doubt."
With a gracious smile, Sir Lionel replied, "The evidence speaks for itself. Truth, when examined honestly, always prevails."
MaxInDHouse: There has never been a time the sky is white completely without dark spots but you can never ever find a better replacement for what God called "LIGHT" and declared it GOOD. Genesis 1:3-4
Even if you keep studying, you can't turn from falsehood to truth. The experience of JWs since 1879 shows that darkness cannot be turned into light.
Courz: Mad MaxinDhouse, you have asked this question several times about the specific fake dates set by your Watchtower Leaders all throughout the history of Jehovah's Witnesses and people have provided proof to you straight from your publications but you end up running away. Why are your Brain cells acting like a Robot? You love people repeating themselves over and over again just to disregard the evidence they give to you. If achorladay decides to bring all the evidence of your Fake Prophecies, you will either act as if you didn't see anything and run away or you will start this your merry go round argument of making people repeat themselves again. Are you sure you are not mentally ill?
My dear it's very sad that people like to live in lies and pretend they don't see their errors. The fact is that I don't have time for child's play.
Broveens42: Renowned neuroscientist, Prof. Philip Njemanze, has disclosed that the Temple of Solomon and Wailing Walls have been discovered, “covering the entire premises of Assumpta Cathedral Owerri and spreading across 10 times the area over 2km by 2km, beginning at Freedom Square and ending westward at New Owerri, next to Area K, stretching eastward to Concord Hotel area.”
Njemanze, who is the author of the series, “Igbo Mediators of Yahweh Culture of Life, Volumes 1-V,” said: “In my books, I provide the first accurate account of the location of the Ancient City of Jerusalem (Igbo language: iyī érusala m, meaning, ‘evil should not touch me’) and its outer walls as reconstructed by the structural engineer called Prophet Nehemiah (Igbo language: na-aha ama uhu, meaning, ‘arranged the settlements at the wall that is their sections for reconstruction’) who later became the governor of the Western Wall of Jerusalem living at Obinze (Igbo language: obi nze, meaning, ‘quarters of the governor’). The Temple lies 9-11 metres down today. This assertion is supported by a map titled ‘Ìlú Yèrúsàlέmì ńǹwèrè Yèésú’, meaning, ‘Capital City of Jerusalem at the Birth of Jesus Christ’, believed to have been made by anonymous Yoruba king from Dahomey, modern Benin, and held in the top secret British archive. The city was surrounded by the inner Wailing Walls (Igbo language: ihi e ti eti, meaning, ‘the wailing wall’; Owere dialect: uhu e ti eti, meaning, ‘the wailing wall’) built around the Heart of the Capital City of Ancient Jerusalem, which was the home of King David to this day, called Amawọm (Igbo language: ama Owe m, meaning, ‘the settlement of my Leader [King David]’). The walls enclosed the Royal Palace of King David (Igbo language: Di wụ edo, meaning, ‘the man who is fair in complexion’), the Old Temple of King Solomon (Igbo language: isi e lo ama ana, meaning, ‘the head that thinks wisely for the land’), in the present area of the traditional Royal Palace in Orukpu Njemanze (Igbo language: Ọ rị ukpu na-eje amana eze, meaning, ‘it is sacred, the homestead of those who go to become the kings of the indigenous people’) the dynastic lineage of King David to this day. King David’s title was Owerri (Igbo language: Owe eri, meaning ‘leader from time immemorial’) who replaced King Saul (Igbo language: isi ala, meaning ‘head of state’) who was the Owelle (Igbo language: Owe e le, meaning, ‘leader you look up to’) of Onitsha (Igbo language: anị otu ọcha, meaning, ‘land of white sands,’ as Niger River overflows its banks). The Prophet Samuel (Igbo language: saa mụ Eli, meaning ‘answer me the Most High as the petition from the mother for a child’) had come to Owerri to ask of the sons of Jesse (Igbo language: e lee nde ji isi eze, na-eje amana eze?, meaning, ‘who are those who have the headship of the indigenous people that go to become kings’) and he chose David. The map shows the houses of the Chief Priest, Sanhedrin (Igbo language: isi na-ahụ e de arụana, meaning, ‘the heads that look into and write the unlawful acts in the land’), Sadducee (Igbo language: isi e do udo ọsa, meaning, ‘head advocates that keep peace among the people’) and Scribes (Igbo language: isi a kaara ibe ọsa, meaning, ‘head advocate that bears witness for the people’), and Pharisee (Igbo language: efere ọsa, meaning, ‘your worship of the people’) in the area of the High Courts and Government House in Owerri also called Ntuwu (Igbo language: ntụ iwu, meaning, ‘where they make laws’). The city of Owerri and surrounding villages, including Naze (Nazareth; Igbo language: ana e zere ụta ọha, meaning, ‘land where He dodged the terror of the leaders’) , Egbu(Igbo language: e gbuo, meaning, ‘the Jews that shouted kill Him [Jesus]’) , Awaka (Igbo language: a waa aka, meaning, ‘the Jews that shouted that they should pierce His [Jesus] hands’), Uratta (Igbo language: uru a ta ụta, meaning ‘mourning for the wrongdoing – killing of Jesus’), Emekuku (Zion; Igbo langugage: e zuo ọnụ e meekọọ ukwu, meaning, ‘gathering of a large crowd to associate at the Temple’), Ihitte Ọgada (Igbo language: ihi ete, e ti aga ada, meaning ‘because of grave sin he (John the Baptist, called Ihijirika, shouted that they will fall’) were in the area traversed by the Sea of Galilee (Igbo language: ogo li elu, meaning, ‘the districts on heights’) starting from river Okitankwo (Igbo language: akụ otu nkwọ, meaning, ‘the riverside of Baptism’) nearby Nkwọemeke (Igbo language: the Baptism of Regeneration’) of John (Igbo language: jụọ aha nna, meaning ‘ask the father his name’). Those cities along the rivers are wrongly called Alaenyi (Igbo language: ala n’iyi, meaning ‘cities along the rivers’) collectively called ‘Sea of Galili’ in the Bible along which the Ministry of Jesus Christ took place. Jesus Christ was known before His birth by the locals as Emmanuel (Igbo language: Mmanụ Elu, meaning ‘Person from above’) because the Prophet Isaiah (Igbo language: Ị saa Iho, meaning, ‘if you answer the Divine Light’ he wrote about the rewards and consequences of nonresponse) from Okolochi (Igbo language: oko olu Chi, meaning, ‘the youngman who is the voice of God’) also locally called Amadi Igwe (Igbo language: ama Ọ Dị Igwe, meaning, ‘wisdom from the Eternal God’s throne’) refered in the Bible as Colossians (Igbo language: oko olu si Ose Enu, meaning, ‘the voice from Almighty God in Heaven’). Prophet Isaiah declared to Owerri people that: Eri kwere nwa ikporo ga a mụ, meaning, ‘the Ancient of Days promised a Child to be born by a Virgin’, at the place to this day called Erikwerenwa Street in Amawọm that leads to the Palace of King David – na-eje amana eze. Emmnuel had worked as a sculptor with his father Joseph (Igbo language: onye o je e so a fụ, meaning, ‘the person He follows to go out’) at the marketplace on the street called Ekeoonuwa street (Igbo language: Eke Ọ nụ waa osisi, meaning ‘the Eke marketplace where He carved wood’). When Jesus started His ministry, there was a lot of uproar because of the miracles and teachings along river Nwaorie (Igbo language: Nwa Orie, meaning, ‘Son of the Almighty God’) at Amakọhịa (Igbo language: ama a kọ ọhịa, meaning, ‘wisdom that is told by the bushside’) and Akwakuma (Igbo language: akwa a kọ ama, meaning, ‘wisdom told on the bridge’). Along this river, Jesus met the fisherman Peter (Igbo language: pa atụ Orie, meaning, ‘you have the instructions of God’ in his confession of Jesus as Son of God) who loaned Him his boat and then was ordered to spread the fishing net (Igbo language: ubu mmiri) and caught the miraculous fishes. This is why Owerri people do not fish at Nwa Orie river to this day. Peter abandoned the net with fishes there (Igbo language: e mee a ghara) and fell prostrate at Egbeada (Igbo language: e gbee daa, meaning ‘fell prostrate’). The area to this day is called Ubommiri. Peter had all his kindred follow Jesus and they are called Ụmụabali (Igbo language: ụmụ Aba Eli, meaning, ‘community that followed the Spirit of the Most High’). The miracles of Jesus caused some elders in Owerri to say that it could be a reason for insurrection against the white Romans (Igbo language: oru ama enu, meaning, ‘slave people from the northern settlements’) and reprisal attacks on the whole communities. They reasoned that it was better that the Romans kill only Jesus. The elder Pharasee adviced (Igbo language: na-ejiri ibe a kọ, meaning, ‘gossiped on his kinsman’ to the authorities) his kindred Ụmụọrọnjọ (Igbo language: Ụmụ rọrọ njọ, meaning, ‘this community that came up with the conspiracy’) supported by Ụmụọdụ (Igbo language: Ụmụ ọdụ, meaning, ‘community that gave the advice’), Ụmụeche (Igbo language: Ụmụ e che, meaning, ‘community that guarded His tomb’) and Ụmụoyima (Igbo language: Ụmụ e nye ama, meaning ‘community that revealed where He was’) of the five kindreds that make up Owerri nchi ise (Igbo language: Owe eri na-echi isi Ị zara Eli, meaning ‘the leaders from time immemorial that crown the king of Israel’).
At Jesus’s trial by the Chief Priest at the Temple of Solomon (Igbo language: isi ụlọ Ama Enu, meaning, ‘main building of the High Church’), then at the area of the Government House Chapel, Owerri, which was the office of the resident head Pilate (Igbo language: pa ọlụ a tụ ọsa, meaning, ‘has the responsibility of directing the people’) and then the governor Herod (Igbo language: a họọrọ dị isi, meaning, ‘the chosen one at the top’) at governor’s office. The Jews called Egbu (Igbo language: e gbuo, meaning, ‘crucify Him’) and Awaka (Igbo language: a waa aka, meaning, ‘pierce His hands’) shouted for Jesus to be crucified at Ugwu Ekwema Arugo (Igbo language: ugwu ekwe ọma arụ ogo, meaning, ‘hill at the skull shrine of the abomination of the district’). A Roman army conscript from Awaka shot an arrow into his side (Igbo language: ọ gba ube Nwa Chukwu, meaning, ‘shot an arrow at the Son of God’) blood and water came out and the people exclaimed as the water dropped into the nearby river Ọtamiri (Igbo language: Ọ taa mmiri, meaning, ‘blood and water dropped’). Jesus body was taken for embalment by a Pharisee (Igbo language: onye a wụ Chi ori ojii, meaning, ‘the person that applied black embalment ointment on God’) and his friend (Igbo language: Chi e do, meaning, ‘he preserved the body of God’), both were local embalmers from the village of embalmers called Orjii (Igbo language: ori ojii, meaning, ‘the black embalment ointment’). Jesus was buried at the Place of the Skull (Igbo language: ọhịa okpokoro isi) on Golgotha (Igbo language: ogologo otu, meaning, ‘long bank of the river’) at the present area of St. Mulumba Catholic Church, Owerri, along Wetheral Road. Three days later, He rose along with the people called Ekenaokorie (Igbo language: e kee oko Orie, meaning ‘the regenerated men of God’) who died 100 years earlier during the Maccabean revolt and were called Maccabees (Igbo language: e mee aka ebe Ose, meaning, ‘bore witness to Almighty God’).
The events of the Death of Jesus in Owerri are commomerated yearly as Oru Owerre (Igbo language: uru Owe Eri, meaning, ‘the sorrow of the leaders from time immemorial’) with roasted yam and fresh palm oil (Igbo language object form: ahụhụ ji a kwaa mmanụ elu, meaning, ‘roasted yam with fresh oil’; subject expression: ahụhụ e ji kwaa Mmanụ Elu, meaning, ‘the suffering which was used to wake the Person from Heaven’). After three days, there would be clearing of the path to the burial site called Ọbụbọ ụzọ (Igbo language subject expression: Ọ bụbọ a zọ, meaning, ‘the killing that brought about salvation’). All communities and places bear the names given with the events of the Life Jesus of Owerri as a mark of pennitential rites [Ephesians 3:14-15].
If there koran says Jesus is not God but a prophet of Allah, then their posting it is no attack on christians. From the bible Jesus is God, there is no doubt about that. But the Muslims are not saying that their conclusion about Jesus is from the bible but quoran. They have their right to their own beliefs.
MaxInDHouse: Of course each person will be nursing that secretly in their hearts and whoever listens to them will perceive it through discussions.
So just as they never mentioned a specific date their modern day counterpart also never mentioned a specific date but are expecting the Kingdom after seeing the fulfillment of some prophecies!
The only claim of the GB is they are not on the same page with other groups so as they separated themselves {2 Corinthians 6:17} everyone now wants to make enmity with them as if it's a must that all religions are worshiping the same God. So if they claim they are also prophets of the same God let their WORKS speak for them the GB claims they are the only group Jesus is using and i totally agree with that. WHY? • Jesus' disciples are to make all their fellow worshipers disciples too preaching and teaching in their neighbourhood. Matthew 28:19-20 • They must love their neighbours as they want to be loved {Mark 12:31} by others not supporting wars and killing their neighbours due to the ambition of some selfish politicians. John 17:14-17 • They must seek the peace of their brothers and sisters in other countries even though they only hear how they're working for Christ from them. Colossians 4:3 • They must keep away those who don't want to share the same line of thought regarding judgement from God. Matthew 18:17
Only the GB is doing this WORK! Matthew 24:45
Christianity is not just a child's play where sects with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines all claiming they on the same page goes! 1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3
You can't claim to be the only channel and run when the only channel sends a false message and makes false predictions. If you're God's channel, then that channel is obviously inferior as the channel doesn't know the future. Considering the amount of errors, the God label is an insult to the Almighty God.
God of the bible sees the future accurately without flip flopping. So the church deserve to be called out as false prophets.
MaxInDHouse: The fixed date is "within Jesus' lifetime" that is why Peter vehemently rebuked Jesus when Jesus talked about his death {Matthew 16:22} they were hoping to start ruling with him during their lifetime with Jesus. So when they were preaching and teaching in all their neighbourhood it's the idea that Jesus will soon start ruling they all had in mind including John the baptist that's why he expected Jesus to come and rescue him from prison! Matthew 11:2-3
In fact Jesus' statement shattered that hope by telling them he has to sacrifice his body all his disciples deserted him! John 6:66
WHY? Most of them believe Jesus will start ruling the world that time and they will be privileged to be his corulers.
All these are signs that each of them had fixed date in mind regarding the end of suffering.
The same thing is what Jehovah's Witnesses have in mind today.
The question you should be asking is:
Why are they having the wrong expectation?
But claiming Jesus' modern day disciples are fake for having wrong expectations or fixing dates in their minds is like closing your eyes to the obvious the truth is they never mentioned any fixed date e.g 25th December 2024 but speculating that within so and so time or period all these suffering will be over nobody can convince me that Jesus' first century Jewish disciples didn't have the same thing in mind!
I will agree that they may have expected the kingdom while Jesus was on earth. The expectation in Jerusalem at the time was already high, so it's understandable. But can that count as a fixed date? I mean, which date will that be? Who knows how long Jesus was going to live? What I will say is, they know Jesus is the Messiah and that he will be the one to bring the kingdom. But when he will bring it, they do not know. They may have speculated within themselves, that is possible for they are humans like us. But that they went on to tell people so and so date, the kingdom will come, I don't see anything in the bible to suggest they did so.
Again, there is no official direction from any of those taking the lead that time as to when the end will come. I don't see it. We know that JWs dates were official. It is not an informal side talks by one or two JWs. It was from the official channel.
I feel we need to end this. I see you see dates within those scriptures, unfortunately I don't see any. We can led it slide.
however. A theory heralded by Thomas Talley. It is called the Calculation Theory. The encyclopedia Britannica says of it:
“A second view suggests that December 25 became the date of Jesus’ birth by a priori reasoning that identified the spring equinox as the date of the creation of the world and the fourth day of creation, when the light was created, as the day of Jesus’ conception (i.e., March 25). December 25, nine months later, then became the date of Jesus’ birth. For a long time the celebration of Jesus’ birth was observed in conjunction with his baptism, celebrated January 6.”
So light was created in March 25, according to this calculation. This, as the thought goes, means that Jesus the light was conceived by Mary in March 25. Nine months later, December 25th, Jesus was born. Does that sound unreasonable to you? Yes it is, but that's the method used in ancient times by some christians. Not all however arrived at the same date, as we shall see later.
The earliest mention of December 25 as the date Jesus was born is in 221 CE by Sextus Africanus. In a biblical archaeology article TC Schmidt is said to believe that Hippolytus associated Jesus birth to be around December 25. And Hippolytus incription used to support this is dated around 222 CE.
Commenting further on the different dates available in ancient times, the biblical archaeology article on TC Schmidt continues:
“... The early church fathers’ calendrical calculations of Jesus’s conception resulted in the date.
The early church fathers believed that Jesus was conceived on Passover and born nine months later. However, they differed in their dates for Passover, which is calculated on the lunar calendar. This resulted in a variety of dates for Christ of dates for Christmas, one of which was December 25.”
So the Calculation Theory posits that the December 25 didn't first issue from pagans. This view seem to gain support since the pagan celebration of December 25 began in 274 CE, when Emperor Aurelian established that feast for the birth of Sol Invictus. However, we see the date already being arrived at prior to that date using a method they knew back then.
It should also be noted that the History of Religion's Theory agrees that the celebration of Christ's birth had already been part of the feast of Epiphany before it was separated from that feast to a different date, December 25. That shows that there had been a celebration of the birth of Christ even before the claimed shift to December 25. That alone helps us see the weakness of pagan origin for the celebration of Jesus birth. The only point the HRT can argue is the December 25 date, not the celebration. Even the December 25 too has a major opposing argument against it. Not to forget that while churches in the west is seen to have moved the date to December 25, the churches in the East kept their Christmas celebration on January 6, while some on 19th. So if the HRT is true, how come we have those who celebrate Christmas on January 6 and 19th as far back as fourth century?
Another important destructive point to consider is the one made by Talley himself. His findings showed that Constantine was not based in Rome during the period following the council of Nicea. And this period was essential to the syncretism argued by the HRT.
Professor Susan K. Roll, who is a major proponent of HRT puts it this way:
“The major contribution made by Talley to the question of Constantine's influence on the institution of the Christmas feast in Rome is simply the recognition that Constantine was not based in Rome in the years following the council of Nicea, the decisive period for the establishment of Christmas according to the “solar syncretism” theory.” Towards The Origins of Christmas (footnote)
So we can see that although many Christmas customs issue from pagans, they are hardly the originators of this feast.
There is no reason therefore to judge others who may chose to celebrate this occasion. You might chose not to celebrate it, that's your decision. In as much as the focus is on Christ and not engaging in worldly behaviors, one with strong faith can celebrate. Finally, let's heed the bible advise at ROM 14:
1Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand."
Truvelisback: There is none. Prophecy or prediction of the future is not an easy task. Even genuine prophets don't find it easy. The prophetic office or ministry is one of the most complicated and misunderstood ministry. Although, genuine prophets predictions or prophecies do come to pass but not all the time because the prophet might misunderstand or misinterprete his visions or what he heard. Even false prophets do give accurate prophecies or predictions even though their source may not be from God.
That's very true. This is why I say that what I think is failed prophecy might have fulfilled differently. It is very difficult office to operate. But what I have come to understand is that gift also differs. Some receive prophecies in more clearer way than others. Prophets that see clearer are very very few. One prophet says that God told him that such clearer prophets are just seven in the whole world, and He didn't even tell him there names. He was only trying to guess who occupy such office.
I have heard Sid Roth say he knows just one of such prophets, but that he doesn't operate on social media. He doesn't allow his service to be covered on camera. Now could that man be among the seven? No one knows.
I am generally interested in what my God is doing in my lifetime, so I enjoy searching for such people, even I don't find them, it's part of my spiritual journey.
MaxInDHouse: Of course Jehovah's Witnesses are PROPHETS but when talking about prophets what faithless miscreants often want to see is someone who will tell you the number that will win baba ijebu lottery.
Ọmọ a prophet is someone sent to deliver God's message it doesn't mean he or she must be inspired!
Yes, not all prophets are inspired. Someone who deliver message from God's word can be called a prophet. However, in this sense, Jehovah's witnesses are not the only prophets.
Almost everyone here can bear that name. But the Gov Body go beyond that. The claim they make some of it belongs to inspired prophets.
achorladey: He is finding it difficult to backtrack or get choked up on his lies. He has to keep defending that nonsense of John and the disciples having a fixed date in mind to defend the nonsense of Russell their so called Governing Body members
And I don't see how one can make that happen from the scriptures.
MaxInDHouse: "But we were hoping that this man was the one who was going to deliver Israel. Yes, and besides all these things, this is the third day since these things occurred. Luke 24:21
That is what his disciples said!
So they had a FIX DATE about the end of badness in mind!
Ok, perhaps I missed it, what actually is the date there?
MaxInDHouse: Were they expecting the Kingdom during their lifetime? If so then they have surely FIXED a day or month or year because what they have in mind will always reflect in their conversation with a relatives who is not a Christian or neighbour.
If they ever fixed a year, a month or whatever, there is no way to reach that conclusion from the scriptures. A high expectation is already in the land. The Jews see the Messiah as one who will liberate them from Roman captivity and establish his kingdom, but that Jesus disciples fixed a date cannot be concluded from what they said.
John 21 might be a possibility that some expected the kingdom during John's lifetime. But can we call that a fixed date? I doubt. who knows how long John will live? Even John who wrote the epistle sounded as if he himself didn't even reach that conclusion himself. He pointed out what Jesus actually said and what some concluded from what he said. So did all, as God's organization at the time teach that the kingdom will come during johns lifetime? No, obviously John didn't see it so. But did some concluded so, yes. How long did that expectation last? We don't know, but there is nothing in the other books of the new testament that suggests that these lasted a long time, and never did any preach such a doctrine. It was never officially agreed by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem.
So I don't see how one will find any first century parallel to the organization's fixing dates for the kingdom coming and even announcing it in public preaching. God's people in Bible times didn't do that.
haddeylium: People in general connect the word “prophet” with predictions of the future. Though prophets in the Bible usually proclaimed predictions about the future, the Scriptural definition of a prophet is wider: In Bible times, prophet is a person who receives specific messages . they do not do that under their own initiative.
Today the organisation of Jehovah’s Witnesses act like a prophet in that we proclaim an old message, one that was written down in the pages of the Bible. We spread nothing new.
We have never made any false predictions.What we have been guilty of is misunderstanding some of the prophecies that relate to the “end times”. Afterall, we never claimed that our researches are infallible. Contrary to many religions, we are prepared to change if we find out we were incorrect.
You can visit Jw.org for more information. Use the keyword; Bible prophesy
My Post is for those who have deep interest in Bible and what it really teaches and It is not meant to challenge or dispute any personal belief and nor will I debate such. if your comments/questions are civil, I'll reply them'.
Have a great day
Jehovah's witnesses cannot be said to be inspired prophets who hear supernatural knowledge from above. I feel they are and should remain bible students and nothing more. This is where there appears to be contradiction.
You claim to be spirit directed because you follow your own understanding of what you read in the bible.
If you say you are not inspired, you read the bible and tries to see what it means, why then are you claiming to be exclusively used by God when what you're doing is what thousands of bible scholars are doing? There are also other churches who have the same view, who just interpret what they read in the bible without hearing a voice from above. Why don't you consider those other ones as also spirit directed?
Most importantly, why do you consider yourself as God's channel? Why is it that if not your religion, others are false? Does that description match one who claim to be just following what he reads in the bible or does it not make one God's voice on the earth? If you claim to be that God's exclusive voice, then you're God's prophet on earth. If you failed, it means that the God who is directjng you though His spirit, as you claim is false god. He keeps pushing you to error and more errors.
When we read the bible, we don't see any such case in the bible, where God's exclusive organization is full of scriptural misunderstanding to these incomparable proportion. No single Christian church has committed the amount of errors and doctrinal switching as done by Jehovah's witnesses. How will anyone ever conclude from reading the Bible that God is using such an organization? Does their experience not match what we have been warned at 2 tim 3:6,7, 13?
"From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.
Every weekly meeting is described as "Study".
So, if they were just bible students, we can say they are folks who gather to study the bible. No one will call you out for any wrong misunderstanding, but the claim of the organization is huge. God's ONLY channel, His organization, the Only true religion, the Only Faithful Slave God is using. As such, you represent God, in fact you say that you are the only one on earth representing God. That makes you God's Prophet. You are his channel. The point is, from what you really are, folks studying God's word, you shouldn't be called inspired prophets. You should be called bible students. But your other claim takes you to a different level, it makes you inspired prophets. If you remove religious entity from your designation, no one will call you a prophet.
And what does "God's channel" tell us about what God will do in the future? 1874 switch 1914 switch 1925 switch 1975 and many more. Please compare that with what you read in the bible and tell me if this organization resembles God's people in Bible times. So if they don't match God's people in Bible times, then the organization is false.
Neither John the baptist, Jesus of Nazareth, first century Apostles or Governing Body fixed any date it's all about sense of urgency misconstrued by many as fixed date.
But if you don't agree please quote any of the publications of the Watchtower where a date is fixed e.g 18/12/2024 that any publication of Watchtower mentioned apart from anticipation like first century Jewish disciples of Christ!
I don't think that in English the phrase "fixed date" must be a fixed day. A fixed date can mean a fixed year or month. From your escapee reply, I want to believe that you agree that the apostles never set any date for the kingdom to come.
And by the way, what do you need that kind of a prophet for, you are more important to your life than prophecies and spiritual entertainments
Lol. They are rare, but some have had such reputation in the past.
As I progress in my scriptural studies, I am beginning to see that what is unfailing prophecy might not be what I think. What I think is a failed prophecy might in fact have fulfilled differently.
MaxInDHouse: John the baptist QUESTIONED Jesus' credentials because Jesus didn't rescue him as he thought. Matthew 11:2-3
That's to show you i'm making my own personal research apart from what Watchtower says. Are you now convinced that it's not just whatever Watchtower says?
So his disciples also got confused based on the fixed date they all had in mind after confirming he is the Messiah they thought the Kingdom will come immediately after his resurrection! Act 1:6
I never said it's about John the baptist i specifically mentioned John the apostle and the RUMOUR went round among BELIEVERS that John will not die until Jesus return {John 21:21-23} abeg when Jesus returns what exactly will happen according to beliefs of faithful and loyal disciples of Christ?
So how come such sense of urgency never meant John the baptist and Jesus of Nazareth who caused it weren't termed FALSE PROPHETS as you're now saying about Jehovah's Witnesses? Is it not the same sense of urgency they created in the minds of faithful people back then?
Guy stop lying to yourself!
High sense of urgency means FIX DATING since believer can never think it will take more than a century before God's Kingdom comes the way John the baptist and Jesus of Nazareth delivered their message! Matthew 3:2; 4:17
Nawa o. Oga if there is a fixed date, which date is that? In the case of JWs, we know the date they fixed. So which date did John and Jesus disciples fix?
Christianity Etc › Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by Sand2022: 3:34pm On Mar 18, 2025
. The Angel of the Lord also appeared to Abraham who called Him "Lord (Yahweh)" (Genesis 18:1). In Genesis 18 there were three angels who visited Abraham but when the other two left to go to Sodom, Abraham was left standing next to the "LORD" (Genesis 18:22). Similarly the Angel of the Lord identifies Himself as "wonderful" to Manoah's wife (Judges 13:18) - Jesus is the "wonderful counselor" (Isaiah 9:6). The angel of the Lord also answered Manoah's wife prayer which she had "prayed to the LORD." (Judges 13:
