₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
NO!
I warned you to stop tagging my name with your stupid threads but you refused to respect my wishes.
I said it's only when you are able to tell me the name of a better performing group than Jehovah's Witnesses that you should mention me, you refused to listen.
So i decided to do exactly the same thing you are doing to me, does that mean you are trying to tanish my image on Nairaland that you keep mentioning me despite warning you to stop doing so?

You're not the only one I tagged. If I tag you, must you respond? Did I hook your nose with tag?

MightySparrow:
Delusion.
I eat the emblem every time over thirty years now, I get stronger. Maybe, Jehovah's Witnesses' emblem has poison in it. The blood of Jesus cleanses, never stains.

Delusion pro max.

Don't listen to Max. He doesn't know what he is talking about. If fact after the program, many elders don't throw the emblem away, the elders eat them after the program.

So there is no poison in the emblem.

immaculatesense:
Max
You know I won't support tantrums.
We all have different views about issues. But we can all be respectful in passing our view and addressing others' views.

Thanks.

I love your person dear. That you honored the memorial of Christ death is appreciated. We ma have different theological views, but we all belong to the body of Christ.

I am happy that you eat the emblem in your church. What Christ did for all of us needs to be honored.

MaxInDHouse:
Jehovah's angels aren't concerned with whatever goes on in false religions that's why whatever they practice during their worship has no consequences but in the midst of His Holy Ones you dare not go against the rules.
Whoever takes the emblem unworthily will get sick if he's just confused about it but whoever takes it thinking it's a joke will die! 1Corinthans 11:30

There was this case of a brother who was given the privilege to deliver the talk on the memorial day, this man has one female Bible student that he sleeps with (adultery) constantly despite having his own wife and both of them continue in the sin for years. Note that it's only an elder among JWs that can deliver the talk on the day of memorial so this man is an elder.

All the time he's been committing adultery with this young lady nothing happened both of them were doing it with no consequences until he was given the talk, according to the report we got from that lady this man invited her to an hotel as usual but she objected reminding him of what he himself taught her about how Holy the day of memorial is instead of correcting himself he told her it's nothing and he's having the feelings so he took her to the hotel and both of them committed adultery again on the day of memorial.

They both had intercourse and from there they both head to the venue and after the songs and prayer he mount the platform to deliver the talk he hasn't spoken for five minutes when he fell down and died immediately then the young lady started shouting "and i warned him o! but i warned him o!"

So it's through this young lady we got to know that it's Jehovah's angel that killed him on the platform that day.

Ever since then the young lady started living a new life after seeing what happened to the son of pedition.

So if anyone feels like eating the emblem we won't stop you after all you know it's consequences remember it was both the elder and the lady who were guilty of adultery despite knowing it's a sin but why did Jehovah's angel kill only the elder?

Well the answer is simple: he is responsible for poisoning the heart of a growing faith in the heart of that lady:

But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who have faith in me, it would be better for him to have hung around his neck a millstone that is turned by a donkey and to be sunk in the open sea. Matthew 18:6

Whoever knows the rules and teaches it won't be spared for breaking it.

This is a gross misrepresentation of Jehovah's witnesses position.

Jehovah's witness leadership will not agree with you that eating an emblem makes you sick or die literally.

While it is true that we respect the sanctity of such occasions because it is the blood and flesh of our Lord that was represented there, it is not JWs teaching that people die for taking the emblem of eaten unworthily. Some elders who give talk spread this lie and some publishers absorb it as if it was true.

I have handled memorial talk more than ones myself. At one of them I took the opportunity to address this false narrative. Pls stop this, you're misrepresenting the organization you claim to speak for.

Is it possible that it was Jehovah who stroke that man dead that day? Yes, but you can't be sure. Did Jehovah tell you that?

In my experience, we have handled cases of elders who commit serious sins, immortality, idolatry, pornography, adultery. Some of these were elders who served for years and handled talks, memorial talks, convention talks, but no one knew all those periods of times, until perhaps something happens and they are exposed. Then you will know that for years he has been doing these and was still serving all along. Why didn't they die in the platform?

While the experience you shared is unfortunate for such a hypocrite who rob God's name to the mud while holding his privilege (assuming your story is true), we can't be sure why he died. Don't assume things nor relate stories you don't know all the facts about. Unless you want to tell me that Jehovah spoke to you guys why the man died.



That is how people reach conclusions without

MaxInDHouse:
The OP knows the consequences of eating the emblem he is just the son of the serpent who instigated Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit but himself never ate it. Adam and Eve died in the process while the serpent lives on.
If he's truly convinced that he should take the emblem please ask him if they will prevent him from taking it.
Because he knows it's his death warrant he will sign instantly if he dare eats it! 1Corinthians 11:30

That is how many even some JW speakers mislead people. The organization has never said that if you eat the emblem, you will literally die. It appears you took up that false interpretation spread by some memorial speakers.

immaculatesense:
Sir
I understand your thoughts quite clear.
I eat the emblem in my own church and I fully partake in it.
I was invited and I know their rules. I could have said no, I wasn't forced. When I got there, they quoted and quoted some scriptures out of context on why people should not eat it.
I knew it was out of context but I am a man of peace. I was not called to disrupt their service but just as a guest.
Not eating it IN THEIR ASSEMBLY does not have any consequence since I may still eat it in my church later this month.

Thanks.

Ok, that's fair.

MaxInDHouse:
Excellent idea!
The only difference is Jehovah's Witnesses will never ever attend service with any other religion!

"Be careful not to be entrapped after they have been annihilated from before you. Do not ask about their gods, saying, ‘How were these nations accustomed to serve their gods? I too will do the same." Deuteronomy 12:30

So if you are still in doubt whether you're worshiping the same God with us well we are not if you are not worshiping in our gathering and practicing what we practice you are not a worshiper of our God.

However i respect you opinion you were invited and you honored the invitation it shows how responsive you are to things going on around you!

This is one of the useless pride I try to address. How dare you tell someone that he is worshiping a false god because his church teachings are different from yours?

Someone honored your invitation, and you tell him this nonsense?

MrPresident1:
There are no virgins in Jehovah witness of American

Hahahahahahaha. Obviously, there are no spiritual virgins there.

MaxInDHouse:
God has a new creation
His spirit-anointed sons.
He has bought them from mankind
His approval they’ve won.

(CHORUS)
A special possession.
They’re a people for your name.
They love you. They praise you.
As one they declare abroad your fame.

They are a holy nation.
Who handle the truth aright.
God has called them from darkness.
To his wonderful light.

(CHORUS)
A special possession.
They’re a people for your name.
They love you. They praise you.
As one they declare abroad your fame.

Faithful to their commission.
They gather the other sheep.
To the Lamb they are loyal.
His commandments they keep.

(CHORUS)
A special possession
They’re a people for your name.
They love you. They praise you.
As one they declare abroad your fame.

Fine lyrics, but it lacks important truth. The other sheep are among the anointed. Jesus wants you to be among them, but your leadership says no.

immaculatesense:
I understand you.
But since I obliged to attend and I was not forced and this is not even my first time. I know that they do not eat the emblem in that assembly. It will be insensitive for me to just pick the emblem and eat when it is passed before me.
That was what I meant by that statement.

Thanks.

I don't think you understand what the JWs mean. They didn't say you shouldn't partake. They said only those going to heaven will partake. Now if you believe you have that hope, you should partake. Partaking it won't be an insult to the emblem. Those there that didn't partake do not believe they are going to heaven. If you share that same belief, then it was good you didn't partake, but if you feel you're going to heaven, you should partake. Or at least have your own emblem to eat at home.if not, you actually didn't remember the death of Christ as he commanded.

Emusan:
I saw a video of invitation posted by a JWs and from the video the speaker said "Millions of people around the world will be at the memorial and guess what, you can be among them"-(not a direct quote)

Then I ask, what is the essence of being in that memorial service and not PARTICIPATING in the emblem?

In the night Jesus made that statement, "Do this in the remembrance of me" - were only few people participated in the emblem or everyone present?

It is obvious that everyone there participated.

achorladey:
We know your agenda is to tarnish Sand2022 threads that's why you created this thread.

That is obvious.

MaxInDHouse:
So you are worshiping with a religion that you know what they believe is wrong and instead of you to leave you are going to social media where atheists, agnostics, traditionalists, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Judaists and others do bash one another to tell them your religion is false, shey?

Please why can't you find another religion that is practicing what you think is right nah?



Apart from JWs in the names you listed up here who else can you confidently say you know the doctrine they subscribe to?

I also was born into religion but my love for God moved me to start searching for the true religion because i strongly believe that pure worship should be somewhere if there is truly a God.

You have talked of Trinity and many other topics but why can't you join those worshiping Trinity?
Or has your Trinity failed to keep it's worshipers in order so that it's only JWs that must be coerced into worshiping your Trinity God?

Reread my post. It appears you didn't get the point.

MaxInDHouse:
@ Sand2022
Below are several threads set up by the above Nairalander he keeps criticizing Jehovah's Witnesses yet he remains in the religion.

Please what are you still doing among Jehovah's Witnesses if you are so sure it's a false religion?

https://www.nairaland.com/8396202/jehovahs-witness-memorial-see-why

https://www.nairaland.com/8389241/jws-dont-eat-emblem-youre

https://www.nairaland.com/8383006/jws-youre-not-among-anointed

https://www.nairaland.com/8386241/ministry-jws-there-cant-good

https://www.nairaland.com/8380928/dont-take-emblem-youre-not

https://www.nairaland.com/8231777/jesus-not-god-he-cannot

https://www.nairaland.com/8254632/revelation-chapter-22-proves-christs

https://www.nairaland.com/8185855/jw-pimo-reconsiders-trinity-doctrine

https://www.nairaland.com/8192278/part-2-jw-pimo-reconsiders

https://www.nairaland.com/8199011/part-3-jw-pimo-reconsiders

https://www.nairaland.com/8086912/ministry-jws-part-14-there

https://www.nairaland.com/7977063/ministry-jws-part-8-miraculous

https://www.nairaland.com/8044876/ministry-jws-part-13-gov

https://www.nairaland.com/8040156/ministry-jws-part-12-creation

https://www.nairaland.com/8037438/ministry-jehovahs-witnesses-part-11

https://www.nairaland.com/8033074/ministry-jws-part-10-great

Yes, I feel it is a duty to minister to my brethrens who still hold this view. If I was an active member, I would appreciate that any who thinks that my believes were wrong to have pointed it out so I can learn.

I am not here to fight JWs, all I am doing it out of love.

MaxInDHouse:
Is it possible for a normal human to stay in a religion and continue worshiping as a member after having so many reasons to leave the religion?

Special appearance on this thread:
Sand2022

God is interested in you as a person who worship him in spirit and truth, not the name of your church. If your church confess belief in Jesus as Lord and who died for your sin, that is the essentials to salvation. So worshiping with such a church is not wrong in itself, you can throw away wrong doctrines they teach, and focus on Jesus. No one church has it all when it comes to true doctrines. I speak much about Jehovah's witnesses because that's where I am from, and secondly, the wrong understanding is too much.

I equally attend church physically, but mainly online. Up to 90% of my data goes into watching church programs, NDEs, prophetic voices etc, I don't know if I spend up to 2% of my data watching JW videos. The healing stream by Pastor Chris, I steamed the last episode from A to Z. I also listen to Kumuyi lectures on our local radio stations, but I also watch Uebert Angel as well and many others. It is not about church name my brother, it's about Jesus. If the JW have something good to watch, I watch it too, I do stream a talk from JWs videos, if the topic makes sense, I will download it like the recent JW monthly broadcast about the bible. How God loving men produced and translated the bible, and the broadcast showed that it was Jehovah who preserved His word though these men. That's fantastic. I loved the program. So I downloaded that one.

It is best you see me as a Christian than labelling me a JWs. I rarely attend the meetings. I pretty inactive and that is part of my fading process. When I do attend meeting, I join another congregation. I want to still appear as inactive in my main congregation. Even if I am removed finally, don't think I will never approach a Kingdom hall. For the record, I don't see JWs as my enemies. My expose is out of love not hatred, the same way I went to preach to those in Christendom those days thinking the Organization was correct, that's the same way I am showing love to JWs by helping them see that these teachings we harbour are completely wrong. We taught the wrong doctrines man, I inclusive. The leadership should change this. This fighting between church A and church B is only dividing the body of Christ. We can still love each other despite doctrinal differences. That's my stand. God doesn't look at your church name, He is looking for a heart that is in love with Him.

Jesus criticized His "church leadership", but he was still there in the meetings worshipping alongside them, saying amen to the prayers said there. Jesus and John the Baptist had slightly different theological position, while John fasted, Jesus disciples didn't fast. John had a prayer he taught his disciples, Jesus had his own for his disciples. The Pharisaic leaders did have disciples as well with different instruction. But all worshipped in the same temple. During the switch to the Christian era, the brothers in Jerusalem taught people to follow the law including circumcision, Paul taught a different one to the territory he oversaw. They all didn't see eye to eye on every matter, but they were all part of the body of Christ. In fact it could be that the book of Hebrews was specifically meant for the leaders in Jerusalem. Paul wanted to show them why they shouldn't be bent on the Law. But Paul didn't see those brothers as enemies.

During the Christian era also, Peter and John did also go to the temple to worship, Paul even went there to conclude his vows. Paul went into synagogues to preach, but what you may not know is that he would need to also worship with them there before they should allow him climb their pulpit to deliver his speech. It wasn't a taboo, Jesus did the same.

The issue is not the church name or where you worship, it is the persons who worship. Is it from your heart. To those who were there in temple or synagogue where they entered, there not believing in Jesus is dent to their worship, but Paul, Peter, John and others who entered in these places had God's seal of approval because they believed in Jesus. God wouldn't reject Paul's worship because he went into the synagogue or went to the temple to fulfill a vow. This is true even when the temple worship is technically not God's approved worship again. The curtain is already torn at this time.

I don't view you as an enemy, you believe in Jesus as Lord, and as one who died and was raised up. If you live it out in your personal dealings, you're my brother, the same with one who is another church.

During the Memorial of Jehovah's witnesses, only those who say they are among the 144,000 partake of the emblems, bread and wine. This is based on the scriptural understanding of the leadership.

Jehovah's witnesses believe that only these 144,000 are in the New covenant. This conclusion has a dangerous implications for millions of Jehovah's witnesses who are meant to believe that they're not part of the 144,000 anointed ones. Why so?

Let's see what Jehovah says about the New covenant.

Jeremiah 30
31“Look! The days are coming,” declares Jehovah, “when I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant.32It will not be like the covenant that I made with their forefathers on the day I took hold of their hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, ‘my covenant that they broke, although I was their true master,’ declares Jehovah.”33“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”34“And they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,” declares Jehovah. “For I will forgive their error, and I will no longer remember their sin.”

1. The New covenant made the old law covenant obsolete. Those in the New covenant now take the title God's people. This means that you need to be part that covenant to become among God's people after the covenant was made.

The problem for Jehovah's witnesses position is; if you're not part of this New covenant, which covenant are you in? God doesn't have another Covenant for you besides the New Covenant.

Many JWs are not Jews by birth, so they can't even claim to be in the Old Covenant. God's people are now known by their being part of the new covenant, but many JWs are not even part of this covenant. This is concerning friends. This is not a joke.

Many of these other sheepers are obviously in no scriptural covenant relationship with God. What the organization applies to them from Greek scriptures are only by extension, because all in the Greek scriptures about the congregation are for those in the new covenant, not to those who are covenantless.

2. Jehovah stated that it is on the basis of this New covenant that he will forgive His people's sins. For JWs, it is believed that Christ ransom sacrifice is not applied to the other sheep yet. And that is in agreement with scripture because you will need to be in the new covenant to have that sin forgiven. Paul made that point thus:

Heb 9
14how much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works so that we may render sacred service to the living God?15That is why he is a mediator of a new covenant, in order that because a death has occurred for their release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance.

Since these JWs are not in the new covenant, they also don't partake of the emblem, this is dangerous. That is clearly rejecting God's free gift for you to come into a covenant relationship with Him.

This is my advise, and I have done this since I woke up. Have a memorial bread made for you and your family at home, get a wine. If you can't make a bread, buy crackas biscuit. After the memorial at the hall, come home, pray over the emblem and eat. That way, there won't be any holier-than-thou view from the congregation at you.

If you're a JW and start eating the emblem at the Kingdom hall, it can be embarrassing. Many just feel you're extraordinary as if you're more special than they are when in reality all of them should be eating the emblem.

As a matter of fact, if you don't eat the emblem, you're not even remembering his death. You have to keep doing this, partaking of the bread and wine, in remeberance of him. (1cor 11:23-26)

Don't feel I came to pick a fight with your organization. The memorial of Christ is very important in Christianity, the new covenant is the chief reason Jesus died.

Tag: Aemmyjah, achorladey, Jozzy4, MaxInDHouse, MightySparrow, NowYouKnow, TemmyT002, johnw47, Boomark, Emusan, Dtruthspeaker, Gabrielshow24, rottennaija

Who created this thread ? There is a problem with the title. Apostates in the gathering of holy ones.
MaxinDhouse, you're technically not part of the holy ones. Many congregations, if not all, there is no single holy one in this area.

There is problem with the title.

Secondly, the bible has context. The message you quoted from God's word is primarily for those whom God sees as his congregation. The Christian congregation. You're not even part of that congregation, because youre not part of the holy ones.

Third, you dont just come up in 1879, raise a group of bible students, and then arrogate God's chosen people to yourself. It doesn't work that way. Only those who are divinely chosen by God to be stewards for the body of Christ officially carries that assignment, and they are rhe ones rhe scripture refers to. Any who go against them are apostates.

It is not when one man starts to study bible, raise up bible study class, grows membership, then boom, he bas been chosen and no other person is chosen. No. Such a person without any divine appointment from God is an impostor warned about at 2tim 3:3-13. He appointed himself and assume God agrees with his appointment.

The origin of Christianity bears this out. God used Judaism for many years, but when he shifted his attention, it didn't happen by people coming together and then arrogating it to themselves to be God's only people. God through miracles showed that His seal of approval is with the apostles. In fact Paul stated that the Apostles has a sign that prove their apostleship.

There groups who did just what Russell and his people did in the first century, remember? The Essenes. They started a group of zealous men for the law, left the corrupt Jerusalem and thought God has chosen them. But did God chose them because of their zeal? No. Jesus went to the corrupt worship in Jerusalem until God shifted his attention to his disciples.

THAT IS THE DIVINE PATTERN MY FRIEND.

The first century Christianity has there remnant in Roman Catholic church. They are the only ones that can trace a link to the first century. And they are still active today. If God wants to shift his attention, He will use miracles to show that His attention has shifted to this new group. At Azuza street around 1906, God poured out his spirit in great measure among the few that gathered. Miracles of all kinds happened there. It gave birth to the Pentecostal churches one of which is the Assemblies of God, Apostolic Faith etc. although jehovahs witnesses began before the AoG church, they number over 200 million members. But the JWs are still struggling with 8million. Is it not evident that Jehovah did speed up their growth as promised? Apart from Azuza, God has manifested Himself in different other revivals.

If not through divine ordination, any person can just form group, use the same bible to support. view, and see any who opposed them as apostates. I mean is it not what we see today from many "only-us" cults and sects?

So if God didn't divinely ordain you as a steward for His people, you're an impostor. Arrogating scriptures to your group is illegal, because the group itself is illegal from God's standpoint just like the Essenes.

Aemmyjah:
Where did the governing body say that
You're a propagandists
JWs are living rent free in your head
Continue spitting worms for others to believe

Say what in particular?

It is challenging to reconcile. But it is simple.

The governing body of JWs feel that when Christ comes during the great tribulation, he will execute all bad people, aka, those not JWs essentially. Since Christ will rule "over" the earth as JWs see it, then the ruled must be righteous ones who passed the judgment test of Christ. So there has to be righteous ones on earth.

Scriptures like Psalms 37:9-11 lays credence to that view. This is understandable. However, scripture shows that these ones who we will meet on earth when we return with Jesus are not declared righteous because of faith in Jesus as the Saints, but they were kind to the body of Christ. While some nations of them were not opposed to the saints, only that they don't have faith in Jesus. They're not saved or born again.

If you have the time read through the whole Zechariah chapter 14. Jehovah's witnesses GB hardly read that chapter as it clearly shows what happens after the destruction of opposing nations and the remaining nations of the earth that weren't destroyed.

Part of that Zech 14 says

Zech 14

Everyone who is left remaining out of all the nations that come against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to bow down to the King, Jehovah of armies, and to celebrate the Festival of Booths."

Here we see that some nations will remain. That's not all, I feel that Matthew 25 relates to this period, it says:

Matt 25
When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

This is apparently the judgment to determine who on earth can live during the thousand years. This people were selected because of their kindness to the saints which were in need. There kindness is seen by Jesus as righteousness qualifying them for life.

JWs will see these people as the other sheep who support there governing body, representing the anointed class. This is not true.

The book of revelation also gives us a gleams as to these earthly subjects. It says:

Rev 20
3 And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not mislead "the nations" anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while.

Take note, that Satan doesn't mislead the NATIONS anymore during the thousand year rulership. So this verse alone shows that some will remain on earth when we rule with Jesus.

It is still from these NATIONS that Satan deceived and mobilized great enemies to attack the camp of the holy ones or Saints after the thousand years.

JWs has greatly uttered this Revelation 20 and over symbolized things to fit their theology. For example, when the Bible says "the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended", they symbolize that phrase to mean something else.

Tag: Aemmyjah, achorladey, Jozzy4, MaxInDHouse, MightySparrow, NowYouKnow, TemmyT002, johnw47, Boomark, Emusan, Dtruthspeaker, Gabrielshow24

Emusan:
From their inaccurate translation one can still read Jesus message and no reasonable person will have second thought about its meaning unless someone who deliberately wants to twist the truth.

"So Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves.  Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect+ him on the last day; for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink.  Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him." - John 6:54-56 NWT

That's true

The Jehovah's witness leadership teach that only the 144,000 are anointed, and thus entitled to partaking of the emblems (bread and wine) during memorial.

Take note of what Paul said at 1cor 11

For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night on which he was going to be betrayed took a loaf, 24 and after giving thanks, he broke it and said: “This means my body, which is in your behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” 25 He did the same with the cup also, after they had the evening meal, saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood. Keep doing this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he comes.

Ask yourself, what exactly is the "this" that you keep doing in rememberable of him?

Verse 25 answers:

Keep doing this whenever you DRINK it, in rememberable of me. Eating and drinking the emblem is what you're told to do to remember Christ's death. You're not simply to be an observer to remember him, you need to be a partaker.

That is in fact what Paul is telling the corinthians to do. He is reminding the Corinthians on the proper way to remember the death of Christ. He didn't say pass the emblem around to remember Jesus death, but that they should eat it as well. Eating the emblem makes you part of the body of Christ. If you don't eat the emblem, you're not part of Christ's body.

If you're not among the anointed, what more does it imply? Next time I will post about that.

Tag: Aemmyjah, achorladey, Jozzy4, MaxInDHouse, MightySparrow, NowYouKnow, TemmyT002, johnw47, Boomark, Emusan, Dtruthspeaker, Gabrielshow24

Aemmyjah:
Where did we say the badness of this world is because of politicians?
Even when there were no 'politics', there was badness

Maybe you'll want me to believe that politicians are actually leading people to have a good relationship with God
Nonsense

Did you take note of the title?

achorladey:
That's why till tomorrow they will find it hard to go back on their Neutrality doctrine and of not going to wars or fighting in wars. It was simply because Rutherford malhandled Romans 13:1 which send many Jehovah's Witnesses into Labour camps and ended up being ex - convict because they choose to go against Governmental authorities called God's ministers of which they see as their enemies and Satan's agent.

My concern is that they are being too reckless. They are too dogmatic that there members suffer in prisons and die for a doctrine that is clearly wrong. I mean knowing what a consequence results from a particular doctrine, are they not suppose to commit a great deal of study before arriving at a doctrine? Or do they have shallow scholars there?

People could die for your doctrine, yet the doctrine is full of loopholes. Some doctrines they die for should just be left for personal decision.

StillDtruth:
I don't know what they have in mind but they are right here.

The first problem politicians have is Law Fullness.

If you look at the ruling history of nations you would see that they are all ruled by bandits or men who cause harm and death like what the white bandits called the British did to us.

That clearly means that their rule is not backed by Law because The Law states

"No man is good enough to govern another man without that other man's consent" Abraham Lincoln

Government itself is founded upon the great doctrine of the consent of the governed, and has its cornerstone in the memorable principle that men are endowed with inalienable rights.
Leland Stanford

Unlike Isreal where you see that God first chose for them who was to rule them (Saul) which you see the people consented and applauded hence The Law was followed.

And as you see, since men made themselves kings and rulers of other men without due recourse to Law, the world has only fallen further into the depths of Satan as the rulers are all fulfilling the desires of Satan.

I see where you're coming from. Men today make the choice of whom to rule, not God as in the time of Israel.

However, when we look at the scriptures, we can see human choices that God himself see as God rulership. Example is Mordecai, it wasn't God who appointed him as ruler. Another example is Daniel. These occupied political offices not a direct appointment by God, yet the way they handled there rulership was godly. All will agree that Daniel and Mordecai were not being ruled by Satan. So it appears that the rulership by Satan is not the political office per se but the course of action the persons chose to take shows who rules them. But it most be stated that most politicians are not following godly principles.

This view by Jehovah's witnesses implies that politicians are under Satan's rule as such, that is why the world is bad as it is.

The problem with this view is not that Satan is not the ruler of the world, but what Jehovah's witnesses interpret the "world" to mean. The world there are those who do not have relationship with God, it is not politicians. And definitely not the cosmos.

If any person, whether politician or not, rejects God's standards and follows his own or the standard of the world, he is under Satan's rulership. But if a ruler follows God's guidelines, even if he is a ruler, he is not under Satan's rule.

We understand that there is a place for imperfection, and this can be attributed to Satan, but even the righteous makes mistakes as well.

This starts to make sense when we consider the land of Israel. If you're a king in ancient Israel, you sat on God's throne. The throne in Jerusalem is God's. In fact the land of Israel back then was entirely ruled by God, not Satan. But can we say that there weren't bad governance there? But why was the rulership bad, because Satan ruled the land? Quite the opposite, God ruled the land. What was wrong was that the individuals chose to follow Satan not God.

Another thing, JW view ignores the fact that Jehovah is the universal sovereign and that rulers are his Public Servants. But a public servant can chose to go against the rule of God and thus can be said to be ruled by Satan.

It should also be stated that even among those who chose Satan, God can cause a ruler to do His will.

Aemmyjah, achorladey, Jozzy4, MaxInDHouse, MightySparrow, NowYouKnow, TemmyT002, johnw47, Boomark, Emusan, Dtruthspeaker

MiddleDimension:
Why do Jehovah's witnesses denounce infant baptism when their publications support it?

I have been wondering recently

I don't know your definition of infant. Jehovah's witnesses baptize minors, but not infants.

If you're not of the 144000, you're not part of the Christian congregation of God according to Scripture, you're not part of the body of Christ, Jesus is not your mediator, you've not been justified, and you've not been declared righteous as a Son of God. The benefit of Jesus ransom sacrifice has not been applied to you, you're still dead in your sins and trespasses. In fact, what is written in the Christian Greek scriptures for the congregation is not with you in mind.

Seriously, this implies that you're not even a Christian. You are still in the world needing someone to preach to you.

This might sound extreme, but that's what the Jehovah's witnesses leadership means. Their applying some scriptures to their other sheep (those to inherit the earth) is by EXTENSION. It was not the primary purpose of those scriptures.

They are creating two classes, while in reality there is ONE body, the body of Christ.

Tags: achorladey, Jozzy4, MaxInDHous, MightySparrow, NowYouKnow, TemmyT002, johnw47, Boomark, Emusan, Dtruthspeaker, Notatribalist, Truthseeker10

gard9ner:
Some believe that once saved, always saved, while others argue that a believer can fall away. Hebrews 6:4-6 warns about those who “were once enlightened” but later fall away. Yet, John 10:28 says no one can snatch believers from Christ’s hand. So, is salvation permanent, or can it be lost through sin and unbelief?

The Bible also speaks of enduring in faith until the end (Matthew 24:13) and warns against backsliding (2 Peter 2:20-22). Some say these verses refer to those who were never truly saved, while others argue they prove a believer can turn away and forfeit salvation. If salvation is eternal, why do scriptures warn about falling away? But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? What do you think?

One can lose their salvation from our perspective. But from the Father's perspective, once saved, is always saved. That is what Jesus means that no one can snatch such ones from His hand.

We don't know whom God has foreordained for salvation even prior to their birth.

At Romans chapter 8:29,30 the chain of salvation is laid out. I feel this is true from the Father's perspective, but in our eyes if someone comes to faith, we feel he can't lose it. The fact is, we don't know those whom God have sealed from the foundation of the world for salvation.

When Judas came to faith, from our perspective, we might think he will hold on to the end, but God knows he wasn't predestined for that. Only in our eyes does it seem to be the case.

In summary, is once saved, always saved? yes and no.

From God's perspective, yes.

From our perspective, no.

Newgoodkk:
Why did God create the devil to destroy His plan?

Some Would say , The Devil wasn't Created to destroy God's Plan but Sin Entered into him and He Turned Against God .

God created Everything, Where did SIN Emanated from ?

Did the Devil Creates SIN?


The Devil was Said to be among the Angels ..Right ?
Does the Devil too has Flesh ,Was Sinful Spirits Parts of the Devil's Creative Components ?

if this is true ,Meaning God Puts in that Sinful spirit in the Devil ..

Was it God's Original Plan to Make the devil acts the way he did .

Remember Judas...Christ Must be betrayed for the Prophesy to be fulfilled .

Revelation 12 V 7..And there was War in Heaven ....

Pls. We need Knowledge, Don't turn this into Unnecessary Argument, Make your Comment and don't try to force your View, Comments and Believes on others .

Don't come on here and starts commenting like God .

If you comment, Wether right or wrong Leave others , they have right to believe or not .

MaxinDHouse , Kobojunkie , Dtruthspeaker and others You are all Welcome.

God did not put any sin in Satan. Sin is not a literal thing. It is a disobedience to what God says is right. Satan decided to go against what is right in God's sight.

The right question should be, why did God create Satan knowing Satan will sin?

God's love allows him to let His creatures decide which way they want to follow in life. Satan took that path. And he suffers for it.

Take note of what Paul said at 1cor 11

For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night on which he was going to be betrayed took a loaf, 24 and after giving thanks, he broke it and said: “This means my body, which is in your behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” 25 He did the same with the cup also, after they had the evening meal, saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood. Keep doing this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26 For whenever you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he comes.

Ask yourself, what exactly is the "this" that you keep doing in rememberable of him?

Verse 25 answers:

Keep doing this whenever you DRINK it, in rememberable of me. Eating and drinking the emblem is what you're told to do to remember Christ's death. You're not simply to be an observer to remember him, you need to be a partaker.

That is in fact what Paul is telling the corinthians to do. He is reminding the Corinthians on the proper way to remember the death of Christ. He didn't say pass the emblem around to remember Jesus death, but that they should eat it as well.

Don't let humans cut you off from Christ because of their understanding.

MaxInDHouse:
Ask the OP nah!
Àbí nah Jehovah's Witnesses infuse what he typed in his head?

He is the one responding to my post.

Antichristian2:
There are many instances where Jesus acknowledged God, prayed to Him, and demonstrated His relationship with God. This collection highlights various moments in the New Testament that reflect Jesus' acknowledgment of God and his own helplessness!

1. Jesus Praying Before Healing:
John 11:41-42: "So they took away the stone. And Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, 'Father, I thank you that you have heard me. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me.'"

Why was God praying before healing? If God sent Jesus then isn't he a messenger? Why is he letting people see him pray to God? How many Gods have you seen pray to another God?

Jesus on earth was also human. Jesus had two roles he served and operated on both, this is why it is hard to see him as God. That's understandable.

Secondly, in trinitarian theology, The Father occupy a Monarchical role. Although they are of the same nature, the Father occupies a higher role. But as to his praying, that is necessary in view of his humanity.

2. Jesus Praying in A[b]Ah! Ah! Jesus came to die, he come dey pray make the death pass am! God suppose pray? God dey die? God even dey turn human? What he unaware of his mission to die again?

That helps you understand that Jesus was fulfilling a role as a human. Judging all he did as a human is not all there is to Jesus.

That answers the following:

3. Jesus on the Cross:
Matthew 27:46: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, 'Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?' that is, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?'"

So Jesus was calling a superior God when suffer enter am! Jesus is even calling on God accusing him of forsaking him! Isn't he God again?

4. Temptation by Satan:
Matthew 4:9-10: "And he said to him, 'All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.' Then Jesus said to him, 'Be gone, Satan! For it is written, "You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve."'"

Was Satan trying to coax God to worship him? I mean Satan according to Job 1 appeared before God with the sons of God to whine God to tempt Job! He should have seen Jesus beside God back then! He didn't recognise God wey turn man! And Jesus was even saying only God alone deserves all worship. Satan no get respect o! Satan later took God to the highest

He knew whom Jesus was. Furthermore, he also knows Jesus Christ created him. But he also knows that Jesus now occupies a new role. He was not in his divine state. He was flesh and subject to limitations of the flesh.

I don't know your understanding of Trinity, but Trinity doesn't mean the father and Jesus are the same person.

5. Jesus Acknowledging God as His Father:
John 20:17: "Jesus said to her, 'Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, "I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."'"

Again, how can Jesus who is a God have another God? If the father is a God to the son, is the son also a God to the father? In Isaiah 45:5, Yahweh siad "I am the LORD (YHWH), and there is no other; there is no God but Me. In Deuteronomy 4:35,
"You were shown these things so that you would know that the LORD is God; there is no other besides Him."
Also in Deuteronomy 32:39, "See now that I am He; there is no God besides Me. I bring death and I give life; I wound and I heal, and there is no one who can deliver from My hand".

Those words you see are from God, true, but you might be surprised to know that Jesus could probably be the one making that statement. We see this happen at Isaiah 6:1-3. While it is said that Isaiah saw Jehovah's glory, it was in fact Jesus who was there as Jehovah. John 10:41

This is why we need to understand that Jesus in his Redemptive role is different from his Divinity. It is confusing, I didn't understand it that way before, but this understanding harmonizes the bible.

6. Jesus Teaching people to call God in heaven:
Matthew 6:9: "Pray then like this: 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.'"

Why is Jesus urging them to pray to the father in heaven when the son is on earth and the son and father are together and one?
I still don't understand why Jesus, a God that became man kept praying to God throughout his life time. I would say he was the only God that had another God he prays in times of need!

It still boils down to his Redemptive role. You will see Jesus say God created humans male and female as if he knows nothing about it, when in reality he didn't just make man, but they were made in his image. (Gen 1:26). He and his father doesn't have two images, rather, one image.

If we don't understand this God this way, we have many scriptures to battle with.