₦airaland Forum

Furthermore you quoted Acts 2:38,"... repent and be baptised ... in the NAME of Jesus Christ" This simply means by/under the authority of Jesus as a testimony to the World of your surrendering to HIM. Name signifies authority Compare Acts 4:7," By what power or by what Name, have you done this?" Philippians 2:9," and given Him a Name which is above every other name" Luke 10:17,"...even the devils are subject unto us through thy Name" etc

But op, if you have a Bible, look at Deuteronomy 29:29! Error starts when we think we 'must' be able to explain all things in the Bible with our intellect! Just as we advise new converts to avoid trying to 'feel' saved, the same principle applies to other aspects viz avoid the evaluation of spiritual things by sense knowledge. Remember, the world, by wisdom, knew not God! why? because God's ways are past finding out. They can only be revealed to us. John 10:30, Jesus said, " I and My Father Are One" John 17:21," . . . as Thou Father art in Me, and I in Thee" He did not mention The Holy Spirit here but the context of the prayer explains it all. The US in Genesis 1:26 is referred to in John 17:21,"...that they also may be one in US..." Also see 1 John 5:7," And there are three that bear record in Heaven, The Father, The Word and The Holy Ghost: and these Three Are One. Mathematically it seems strange but its not wise to dismiss or denigrate anything simply because it cannot be grasped by our very limited brain, our use of which is (as science tells us) extremely low vis a vis its limited potential !!!

Op, thanks for bringing all these to public domain; these are verses that have been ignored by many hence we have become people that profess that they know God but deny Him in works. These are days when many define grace as - God's permission to walk in the Broadway and still enter through the Narrow Gate to life!!!

Thanks op. Indeed our righteousness cannot save us but faith in Christ's sacrifice which makes us born of the Spirit thus making us partakers of His righteousness, evidenced in the transformation of life that will be clearly visible to all around us, not by our trying but His grace. God working His righteousness in us and we working it out by daily walking in the Spirit and mortifying the deeds of the body lest we be condemned.

We may choose to ignore these clear verses on earth while interpreting other verses to contradictory extremes, just to justify ourselves but the path of wisdom is to seek God for the grace that teaches and enables us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts and to live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world..(Titus 2:11-13) Bare in mind that the meek and lowly Jesus is also the Person Who spoke to the churches in Revelations 2 & 3. Especially the Church in Sardis, Thyatira and Laodecia.

I dont know the mechanism of cheat codes but the Bible says to Abstain from all appearance of evil. Already the nominal adjective-cheat- gives you a clue.

That verse states one of the ordinances on which the world was created (Ecclesiastes 3:1- and though for all men it is unavoidable, yet God Who set the ordinance interrupts them at His pleasure. Same for Enoch, Elijah and saints alive at rapture. Another such interference is the standing still of the sun and moon, dividing of the red sea, opening of the mouth of the donkey, bringing water out of the rock in a dry desert, etc

victorels:
Thank you for the insights.
From the topic, you will notice the phrase "Only Remembered by what you have done" and "not the laws you keep" Both phrases are talking about the commandment of God as they are obligations to keep.

He tried to separate the commandment of Christ which you exposed as the righteous requirement of the law and the the other law which we have set as a standard of measurement for righteousness. When we focus on this law as measurement, we will end up as that young man whom Jesus loved for keeping the law but was displeased when he refused to give his wealth to the poor and follow him. Remember the instruction to sell his belongings and give the proceeds to the poor is not in the law, yet for that disobedience, Jesus made the most terrifying statement, "It is easy for a Carmel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Jesus made it clear that the law is enshrined in two commandment, "Love the Lord" and "Love your Neighbour." If we open heartedly accept and keep these commandment, we have fulfilled the righteous requirement of the law.

Thanks a lot

sportsmaster:
Please do take time to read this.God bless you as you do so.

We must be abreast with the facts of the scriptures,the scriptures teach concerning two covenants.The old and new covenants.Oftentimes we think it's a series.Series 1 is the old covenant,Series 2 the new.Hence in our imaginations we assume they are complements or even supplements.How our imaginations have failed us.The old is thus called because it is OUTDATED AND EXPIRED.

Jesus warned about putting new wine in old wineskins(mark 2:21-22).How we have done this too often.We often practice both covenants side by side!We must quickly know it's an error.These two covenants aren't the same.One has REPLACED the other.Thus everything has changed,from culture,worship,service,prayer etc!.Attempting to mix an expired practice with a new one will give a bad product.this is the norm today in many places!.

Let's patiently examine the following scriptures
2cor3:6-Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament;not of letter,but of the spirit of life:for the letter killeth,but the spirit giveth life.
7But if the ministration of death,written and engraven in stones,was glorious,so that the children of Isreal could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenace; which Glory was to be done away:
8How shall not the minstration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9For if the minstration of condemnation be glory,much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory
10For even that which made glorious had no glory in this respect,by reason of the glory that excelleth
11For if that which is done away was glorious,much more that which remaineth is glorious
12Seeing then that we have such hope,we use great plainess of speech:

Obviously,we have a clear distinction of the covenants.Death vs Life.Condemnation vs Righteousness.Spirit vs flesh.The old is DONE AWAY WITH.
Heb8:6-13
6)but now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry,by how much also is he the mediator of a better covenant,which was established upon better promises

7)For if tha first covenant had been faultless,then should no place have been sought for the second

For finding fault with them,he saith,Behold,the days come,saith the Lord,when i will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah

9)not according to the covenant that I made with their Fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt;because they continued not in my covenant,and i Regarded them not,saith the Lord

10)For this is the covenant that i will make with the house of Israel after those days,saith the Lord;I will put my laws into their mind,and write them in their hearts:and i will be to them a God,and they shall be to me a people;

11)And they shall not teach every man his neighbour,and every man his brother,saying,Know the Lord:for all shall know me,form the least to the greatest.

12)For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness,and their sins and thier iniquities will i remember no more

13)In that he saith,A new covenant,he hath made the first old,Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Again the old covenant is referred to as expired!
The New made the first old and oudated!
When we seek to merge both,we end up confused in our giving in church,faith towards God,attitude to sin,to fellow believers etc

A few salient facts
1)The Old is the shadow,the New is the substance(Heb10:1,Col2:16-17)
2)The Old justified no ONE,justification is only by the New covenant(refer to 2cor3 above and Gal3:10-14)
3)The old was for Israel and the New was for ALL NATIONS(including Israel)
The old covenant is/was the fore-runner of the new.Its pratices show this clearly.It was never given to bring salvation.Rather it was given to point to it(salvation).It never gave righteousness rather it showed the import of a right standing with God.Its blessing were conditional:if you obey,if you do all that is wirtten,if you follow the Lord your God,if you serve HIM,if you hearken diligently and so on and so forth.

Let's examine critically some of the above statements.

Healing under the Old covenant.
Exodus15:26-and said,If thou will diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God,and will do that which is rigt in his sight,and will give ear to his commandments,and keep all his statues,I will put none of these diseases upon thee,which i have brought upon the Egyptians:for I am the Lord that healeth thee.
Exodus23:25-and ye shall serve the Lord your God,and he shall bless thy bread and thy water and i will take sickness away from the midst of thee.

Healing here is conditional upon your obedience of the laws.it was NEVER free.

Healing under the New covenant
Matt8:16-17-when the even was come,they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils:and he cast out the spirits with his word and healed all that were sick:
17)That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet,saying,Himself took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses.
Jesus healing ANYONE was based ONLY on His substitutionary work.Men received unconditionally,Let's peruse Isaiah's prophecy concerning this-
Isaiah53:4-surely he hath borne out griefs and carried our sorrows;yet we did esteem him stricken,smitten of God and afflicted.
5)But he was wounded for our transgressions,he was bruised for our iniquities:the chastisement of our peace was upon him;and with his stripes we are healed.

Healing is by HIS STRIPES,HIS PAINS,HIS SUFFERINGS,it's never conditional.if any conditions at all,they are/were fulfilled by Jesus.
Peter re-echoes this
1pet2:24-Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree that we,being dead to sins,should live unto righteousness:by whose stripes we are healed.

John puts it this way
John1:16-And of his fullness have all we received,and grace for grace.
17)For the law was given by Moses,but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
The Law is a demand for performance.Grace is a supply of help,power,strength and support.They are not complements,They are OPPOSITES.
The promise of priesthood under the Old covenant.
Exodus19:5-6
Priesthood under the New covenant
1pet2:5-10.
Rev1:5-6.

We all qualify by the washing of Christ's blood!
CONCLUSION
Obviously,both covenants had many similar concepts and blessings,however the Old was based on conditions,the New is made UNCONDITONAL,because it has ALL been paid for by Christ's death!
To attempt to marry these two covenants,we will fail the test of rightly dividing the word of truth(2tim2:15)
Under the Old covenant blessings came based on obedience.with the New covenant,we are BLESSED to obey!As all things are feeely given to us in Christ!
Romans8:32-he that spared not his own Son,but delivered him up for us all,how shall he not with him also freely give us all?

Blessed?Say,I am a product of Grace.I am recipent of the benefits of Christ's sufferings and obedience!I am thankful for the New covenant!We win!.
SOURCE:Saints community church,Sunday 19th April 2015 bulletin.
378,Herbert Macaulay way,By Unilag junction,Yaba,Lagos.
Tel:08033023354.
Website:www.saintscommunity.net

Also visit www.livingwordmedia.org to download teachings for free.
Have a blessed week.AMEN

But Jesus gave the sermon on the mount and concluded with the call to obedience- Why call ye Me Lord , Lord and do not the things which I say? Luke 6:46! The New Covenant is a covenant of grace hence the righteous standards are higher.

Luke 1:70-75"... to remember His holy covenant, the oath which He sware to our father Abraham (Galatians 3:16-18), that He would grant unto us that we, being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve Him without fear in holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life" This expresses the New covenant reality I know and Hebrews 12:14,"follow peace with all men and[b] holiness without which no man shall see the Lord"[/b] Indeed, there are conditions and these conditions are made possible in our lives by the Spirit through our faith, in a word-Grace Titus 2;11-14 ..." the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world.

And Peter warns 2Peter 2:20," ... if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein,and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning" This shows that we need to take heed to ourselves , like Christ warned, and He would not have warned if there was no danger.

If you read the message of Christ to the Churches in Revelations 2 and 3, except we forge another 'Jesus', you will see that the better covenant implies that to whom much is given more (not less)shall be required and grace is available.

shyna01:
I know all these, was asking the op to know what really pushed him/her to open this thread

Okay, sorry for the assumption.

MrPresident1:
Good. Now link these two precepts, lemme see how receptive you would be;


Isaiah 49:6
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Acts 13:47
For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Acts 13:48
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Now who is Jesus Christ according to these verses?

Like I said to another on this thread, we need the full context to draw out conclusions with.
compare the bolded with Acts 13:33,37,38,39 and note the Him they were urged to believe in (definitely not Paul!!!)? Vs 33," God has fulfilled in that He has raised up Jesus again" Vs 37,"but HE whom God raised again saw no corruption. Paul who you have quoted was speaking in accordance to his role in the spreading of the Gospel.

Jesus said concerning paul, Acts 9:15," he (Paul) is a chosen vessel(apostle) to bear(carry,propagate), my Name (not his) before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel" see Acts 26:15-18," ...I am Jesus Whom thou persecutest (note that two people are here, not one: Jesus and Paul) but rise and stand up for I have appeared unto thee... to make thee a Minister and a witness... delivering thee from the people and from the gentiles unto whom now I send thee,to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God. Paul recognised this as his call from HE of whom Isaiah 49:6 was written and that his call to ministry was to play a part in the fulfilment of that declaration as all believers are called to do see MAtthew 28:18-20 and Mark 16:19,20 He was with them and worked with them.

Jesus Himself said (John 8:12)," I am the Light of the World, he that follows after Me shall not walk in darkness but shall have the light of Life" note the condition. Also John 12:36," while you have Light, believe in the Light that you may be the Children of Light."

But remember the conclusion of the Sermon on the Mount Matthew 7:24,26 " ...whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine and doeth them not shall be likened unto a foolish man..."? and the command to disciples Luke 9:23." If any man will come after Me , let him deny himself, take up His cross and follow Me.

Note that the sermon on the mount was a broader revelation of the righteous requirements of the moral law (not ceremonial law that were shadows) which grace empowers us to do not by struggling but grace through faith!Titus 2:11-14"...the grace of God that brings salvation ...teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,we should live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world

Galatians 5:24,23,22 shows the expressions of love, note Vs 24. 1 John 2:4,5 "He that says I know Him but keeps not His commandments is a liar but whoso keeps His commandments, in him verily is the love of God perfected"

True We are not saved by works but after we are saved,our works prove that we have received the end of our faith, just as the repentance of Ninevites could only be proved by their works ( Jonah 3:10)! Revelations 22:14 Blessed are they that keep His commandments...

shyna01:
Seth was Adam's son.
who did Seth marry? who where the people that multiplied?

Adam and Eve had other offsprings apart from Cain and Abel just as Metuselah, Enoch etc had other kids and not just the one mentioned in genealogical reckoning( which , in the OT ,never includes names of daughters). The focus on Seth is because right from the beginning God was working towards fulfilling the promise made in Genesis 3:15. just as Abraham had other kids too but the focus was on Isaac.Genesis 25:1-5.etc Just as Hannah had other kids apart from samuel whose names were not mentioned.

sukkot:
Ok keep waiting for that one white jesus to come through the skies. goodluck on that brah. i see there is no getting through to you which leads me to conclude that you are one of the ones destined to be blind spiritually. if the LORD wanted to open your eyes after all the precepts i have dropped, he would have. but its obvious he wants you where you are so lets agree to disagree. you hold on to what you have.

Alright, thanks for the complement @ the bolded. Yes He is coming soon and every eye shall see Him Revelations 1:7. Acts 1:10,11 "... behold two men stood in white apparel which also said, you men of Galilee, why stand you gazing up into heaven? This Same Jesus which is taken up from you into Heaven, shall so come in like manner as you have seen Him go into Heaven" Thanks for your time

MrPresident1:
You need to go easy. That verse I quoted is talking about Jesus right?

Yes. And in case you still want to raise issues pls do so referring to the passages I referred to like I did yours.

sukkot:
extrapolations ? i quoted basic bible verses for you. and his only begotten son of john 3 verse 16 is the bible. if you dont believe in the bible you will perish

revelation 19 verse 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. <<< AS YOU CAN SEE, HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE IN IS THE WORD OF GOD AKA THE BIBLE. THATS WHY SCRIPTURE SAYS PRECEPT MUST BE UPON PRECEPT OR YOU WILL NOT UNDERSTAND THAT HE CALLS THE SCRIPTURES HIS SON

John 1:1,2,3,27,29; John 2:11 and others all refute these claims. So will you tell me that the Pharisees never existed when history reveals that there were Pharisees, Sadduccees, Essenes at that time. Or would you acknowledge that they existed because history cant be changed but not Jesus Whom they opposed bitterly? Indeed try giving these views of yours as regards allegory to an Israelite, Egyptian or Assyrian. That should be an intelligent way of verifying your claims. And why would The Israel Prime Minister quote the prophesy of Amos 9:14-15 regarding Israel before the UN general assembly, some years ago?

But why did you ignore John 3:16?!

MrPresident1:
Okay okay okay, lets try again

who is this verse below referring to, who is this servant?


Isaiah 49:6
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Jesus Christ

Verse 3. - Thou art my Servant, O Israel. That the literal "Israel," is not intended appears plainly from ver. 5,7(clearly because Israel as a nation cannot be Israel as a nation's redeemer!). The Servant himself is addressed as "Israel," because he "would stand as a new federal head to the nation"Micah 5:2 (Kay), which would be summed up in him, and also because he would be, in a truer sense than any other, an "Israel," or "Prince with God Acts 5:31 Him has God exalted to be A Prince." In whom I will be glorified (comp. John 13:31, "Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him". He who is "the Brightness of the Father's glory" sets forth that glory before men, and causes them to glorify him, both with their tongues and in their lives. Isaiah 42:1 further declares: Behold My Servant Whom I uphold, mine Elect In Whom My Soul Delights, I have put My Spirit upon Him (see Matthew 3:17,16); He shall bring forth judgement to the Gentiles. Isaiah 53 also refers to Him. Kindly note the Pronouns!

sukkot:
SO IN CONCLUSION WE HAVE PROVEN THAT ADAM IS NOT ONE PERSON BUT A BUNCH OF PEOPLE

GENESIS 5 VERSE 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

WE HAVE PROVEN THAT JESUS CHRIST IS A TITLE AND NOT SOMEONES NAME AND THERE ARE MANY CHRISTS

1 CORINTHANS 15 VERSE 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. < CHRIST THE FIRSTFRUITS

AND WE HAVE PROVEN THAT NO PERSON NAMED ABRAHAM EXISTED TOO

GALATIANS 4 VERSE 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory:

HOPEFULLY YOU ARE STARTING TO APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT THE BIBLE IS NOT WHAT YOU THINK IT IS. IT IS A BOOK WITH DEEP LAYERS THAT VERY FEW CHOOSE OR ACCEPT TO GET INTO BECAUSE THEY FIND THE SIMPLIFIED CHURCH TAUGHT EXPLANATION VERY EASY TO UNDERSTAND

These are strange extrapolations of a very wild imagination that wont stand a passage as basic as John 3:16!

sukkot:
i should prove to you how all humans were drawn out of the sea ? well first off the mineral composition of the sea is exactly like that of humans which is why sea salt is used as a cure for almost all ailments

genesis 1 verse 20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life,

but you said those strange beings came before the Creation you are now quoting?! By the way read the context and understand what was being created!

Rilwayne001:
you finally hold up to you marriage union brouhaha. .
Mat 1:18 This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly. But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife , because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no UNION with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus. <<< When did Joseph know Mary as his wife? It was not until she had given birth to Jesus

Luk 1:27 to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary.

You can as well throw this^^ in a trash and hang up to what suits your claim, but it doesn't the fact they weren't married before mary conceived jesus and that even if they were married, it doesn't mean that Joseph was the father of Jesus, and that Jesus is a direct descendant of Joseph.
Sir, you are the one trying to re-write history here after when you couldnt continue in your arguement that since Solomon went against the god of isreal, then the promise couldnt have come through him and that Nathan is also a son of David and that the promise might have come through Nathan, and when you are countered severally with scritupural backings and you couldn't prove anything about Nathan, you had to come back to shift the poll and tell us that since joseph and mary are married (when actually they were pledged to be married and not that they were married) then Jesus's genealogy can be trace to joseph..*wtf**.

Well, I rest my hand here...Good chatting with you though

You appear to apply today's marriage practices to that of about two millenia ago but even the quotes above spoke about Joseph her husband.. Once you were espoused marriage had taken place. Your reference to the 'marriage union brouhaha' gives me the perception that you personally reject the issue of God making husband and wife one. No problem. But I believe that the inclusion of names of erstwhile gentiles - Rachab, etc in Christ's genealogy should illustrate this better. Of course, Even the Angel in your quote above declared that that which is conceived of her is of the Holy Ghost. Luke 1:32-37 also clarifies the issue of Offspring of David. Except you will declare that the angel did not know what he was saying!

sukkot:
ok lets see

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

the great multitude is the second fruit of harvest into the kingdom of heaven from all the heathen nations. however the first fruit is Jesus christ. in fact i think this verse will kill all arguments

HAAAAAAAAAA I FOUND THE VERSE. THE VERSE TO END ALL THIS ARGUMENT HAHAHAHA

1 CORINTHIANS 15 VERSE 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. <<<< CHRIST THE FIRSTFRUITS ? TELLING YOU WHAT ? THERE ARE MANY CHRISTS

CASE CLOSED. JURORS DISMISSED

Not so fast your honour! So who spoke in Revelations 22:16? The word firstfruits is generally expressed in the plural. And the verse you quoted spoke of they that are Christ's. Not many other 'Christs'. Also see Revelations 1:1-8.

sukkot:
the whole world did not start with families. a whole bunch of people were created at once from the sand of the sea. keep in mind the history of the bible only dates back to 6000 years so the bible is not the story of the creation of mankind. it is the story of the creation of mankind made in the image of God meaning it is the story of when Gods laws were introduced to the world. there are documented histories of empires that date back 20,000 years ago before the bible. so the whole world did not start 6000 years ago with a guy named adam and a woman named eve and then further down a guy named abraham. these are allegories.

Can you with verifiable historical references prove the bolded? And pls you said they were empires of beings not man so your historical proof should incorporate this too.

sukkot:
very strong precepts my kind Sir. couldnt have selected more apt precepts myself

In John 16 Jesus told the disciples that He will send the Holy Spirit ( Joel 2:28,29) and that when He is come, He will teach the recipients ALL things and remind them the things He had taught them. In Acts 2:36- 38, Peter declared that the promise (of the Holy Spirit and His ministry) is unto every one ,in keeping with Joel's prophecy stated above. Hence in these days, anyone who believes is entitled to the Knowledge of the Kingdom else what would have been the need of Mark 16:15-20? And Matthew 28: the latter verses?

sukkot:
yes when the word of God is speaking to you that means Jesus is speaking to you. you have to remember that this bible is written in parables so that only a few people will understand it. this book is only for those who are called to understand it which is very few people. the rest of the people dont understand the book. i am trying to get you to be one of those who understand the book but it is not working

mark 4 vs 11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: MEANING ONLY A FEW PEOPLE WILL EVER UNDERSTAND THIS BIBLE BECAUSE IT IS A WORK OF PARABLES AND ALLEGORIES

PSALMS 78 VERSE 2 I will open my mouth with a parable; I will utter hidden things, <<< THE REAL UNDERSTANDING OF THE BIBLE IS HIDDEN TO MANY.

How do you explain Revelations 7:9-10?

sukkot:
You miss the point. these were not human beings. for example. cain means weapon. cain means someone who is an expert in making weaponry and working with metals. cain today refers to the caucasian race. it is a spirit type. another example. esau means red skin. it is a blanket name for caucasians. you have to understand that the bible is not writing about individual peoples. it is the story of the history of the whole world. for example, ishmael is not a single person. it is the blanket name for all arabs. etc etc etc. bible is not writing about single individuals

And the whole world would could only have begun with clearly identifiable individuals and families.

sukkot:
bros i dont know what to tell you. but JESUS is the WORD OF GOD not a person. JESUS IS THE BIBLE and the person who is anointed ( which christ means anointed ) with the word of God is called JESUS CHRIST. it is a title. like CHIEF ALHAJI CEO DR. It is a celestial title.

REVELATION 19 VS 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. <<< JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD AKA THE BIBLE. AND ANY MAN ( THE PROPHETS OF OLD ) SEALED WITH THE WORD OF GOD IS JESUS CHRIST. THERE ARE MANY JESUS CHRISTS NOT ONE. HOWEVER THE WORD JESUS CHRIST IS USED AS A BLANKET TO COVER THEM ALL. ITS A SIMPLE CONCEPT TO GRASP IF YOU QUIT BEING AN OLD BOTTLE AND BECOME A NEW BOTTLE SO YOU CAN RECEIVE THIS NEW WINE. THE 144,000 ARE JESUS CHRIST

Compare your assertions with Revelations 7:9,10 and Revelations 22:16 the former speaks of the 144k and a multitude of all nations standing before God's Throne and before the Lamb (Another Name of Jesus Christ John 1:29) while the latter is a direct statement from Jesus Himself.

sukkot:
I dont read hebrew myself but if you add all the names together, there is a coded message in it. its a message and not actual peoples names. some guy who reads hebrew was able to decode some of it. here is it. it is a bit long but try to read it





[b]
A remarkable example of this can be glimpsed in Genesis Chapter 5, where we have the genealogy of Adam through Noah. This is one of those chapters which we often tend to skim over quickly as we pass through Genesis it's simply a genealogy from Adam to Noah.

But God always rewards the diligent student. Let's examine this chapter more closely.

In our Bible, we read the Hebrew names. What do these names mean in English?

A Study of Original Roots

The meaning of proper names can be a difficult pursuit since a direct translation is often not readily available. Even a conventional Hebrew lexicon can prove disappointing. A study of the original roots, however, can yield some fascinating insights.

(A caveat: many study aids, such as a conventional lexicon, can prove rather superficial when dealing with proper nouns. Furthermore, views concerning the meanings of original roots are not free of controversy and variant readings.)

Let's take an example.

The Flood Judgment

Methuselah comes from muth, a root that means "death";1 and from shalach, which means to bring, or to send forth. The name Methuselah means, "his death shall bring".2

Methuselah's father was given a prophecy of the coming Great Flood, and was apparently told that as long as his son was alive, the judgment of the flood would be withheld; but as soon as he died, the flood would be brought or sent forth.

(Can you imagine raising a kid like that? Every time the boy caught a cold, the entire neighborhood must have panicked!)

And, indeed, the year that Methuselah died, the flood came.3

It is interesting that Methuselah's life, in effect, was a symbol of God's mercy in forestalling the coming judgment of the flood.

Therefore, it is fitting that his lifetime is the oldest in the Bible, speaking of the extensiveness of God's mercy.

The Other Names

If there is such significance in Methuselah's name, let's examine the other names to see what may lie behind them.

Adam's name means man. As the first man, that seems straight forward enough.

Seth

Adam's son was named Seth, which means appointed. Eve said, "For God hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew."4

Enosh

Seth's son was called Enosh, which means mortal, frail, or miserable. It is from the root anash, to be incurable, used of a wound, grief, woe, sickness, or wickedness.

It was in the days of Enosh that men began to defile the name of the Living God.5

Kenan

Enosh's son was named Kenan, which can mean sorrow, dirge, or elegy. (The precise denotation is somewhat elusive; some study aids unfortunately presume that Kenan is synonymous with Cainan.)

Balaam, looking down from the heights of Moab, uses a pun upon the name of the Kenites when he prophesies their destruction.6

We have no real idea as to why these names were chosen for their children. Often they may have referred to circumstances at birth, and so on.

Mahalalel

Kenan's son was Mahalalel, from Mahalal which means blessed or praise; and El, the name for God. Thus, Mahalalel means the Blessed God. Often Hebrew names include El, the name of God, as Dan-i-el, "God is my Judge", etc.

Jared

Mahalalel's son was named Jared, from the verb yaradh, meaning shall come down.7

Enoch

Jared's son was named Enoch, which means teaching, or commencement. He was the first of four generations of preachers. In fact, the earliest recorded prophecy was by Enoch, which amazingly enough deals with the Second Coming of Christ (although it is quoted in the Book of Jude in the New Testament):

Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against."
Jude 14, 15
Methuselah

Enoch was the father of Methuselah, who we have already mentioned. Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah.8 Apparently, Enoch received the prophecy of the Great Flood, and was told that as long as his son was alive, the judgment of the flood would be withheld. The year that Methuselah died, the flood came.

Enoch, of course, never died:

Nice analysis. Pls understand that these people carefully chose names based on a number of reasons(eg Jabez, Isaac, Esau, jacob etc) unlike how it is done today!. It is believed that Methusela's prophetic name was d motivation 4 Enoch's righteous walk. After the fall, God was still involved with man eg persuading Cain to do the right thing, naming kids Etc

sukkot:
i never said israel does not exist ( keep in mind israel is not the people in israel today but thats a different story ). what am saying is there is no human being named abraham or jesus christ or noah or adam. i think you need to go look up the word ALLEGORY in the dictionary so you can understand where i am coming from. ALLEGORY is a real story told with made up characters. gerrit ?

Just because the word was used in one verse makes you generalise it to the whole Bible? And if I may ask who then are the 'real' characters? Why then are some of those places still existing with the same names today? Why did Paul in the same book say the gentiles who believe in Christ are blessed with Abraham if he was non existent? Does the proverb,"is Saul also among the prophets?" an excuse to say the whole issue of the Kings down through to the captivity by Babylon, Assyria etc a proverb? Remember the latter brings in the history of not only Jews but other extant nations. Can you with scripture vis a vis history of these nations intelligently and logically support your claim?( other than sweeping generalisations of mind blowing proportions!) And supposing you decide to use your other argument of 'it actually happened' then show us the real people or descendants who hold your belief (else you would rewrite their history!) backed by undeniable proofs.

sukkot:
I just did provide a galatian verse. and i am not saying the places in the bible did not exist. they exist. are the stories true ? yes they are true. but is there a man named abraham and israel and adam etc etc ? no. those are cover names for nations of people

Would you then rewrite their history(umpteenth time!) and tell them (Israel) that they dont exist even though they trace their descent from these people?

sukkot:
not my opinion. it is a fact. its in the bible if you read it very well. [b]the bible itself tells you these stories are allegories. not saying they didnt happen, but they did not happen how they are literally presented in the bible. they happened but those names used for people are just classifications and not actual human names. for example i write a story about how nigeria and biafra fought in the biafran war. if i am to write the story allegorically i present nigeria as an individual named john, and biafra as an individual named james. and then i proceed to write the story like ' and james was pissed off with john so they start fighting each other ' etc etc. the story did actually happen. john fought james. however there is no human being named john or james. they are cover names. same way the bible is written[/b]

But these names and places and the nation in question exists today. CAn you please guide me to some of these references,@ the colored? Now the one in italics is a contradiction. The dictionary meaning of allegory(which the Bible is not) suggests that the stories are fictitious. It's easy. If the nation involved was a lost city I'd understand. but if it be a nation still existing with its own national history. . .

johnydon22:
I am saying that cain and abel were not originally added to the adam and eve mythology....
Cain and abel are kenite mythology borrowed by the Jewish scribe that wrote the adam and eve fable, and fictiously made cain and abel their children.

let me show you a snap shot of the New Community Bible (Catholic edition) explanation.

Those are footnotes, man's recent additions. It is no news that these footnotes are usually added( especially when the Version is originating from a sect/group) to reflect the beliefs of that group. If they claim that they ,"fictitiously' made Cain and Abel there children, I ask who then were their real parents? Bare in mind that this predated the great dispersion Genesis 11:9 hence there were no different tribes and all the people groups will trace their descent from their father; Kenites Adam- cain, Israelites: Adam-Seth etc to identify themselves.