₦airaland Forum

yommyuk:
There is no value or human expression of greater importance than love. Paul’s incomparable treatise on this subject in 1 Corinthians 13 is sandwiched between two chapters that deal with spiritual gifts. The Corinthians focused too much on their display of such gifts, so the apostle showed them the “more excellent way” (1 Corinthians 12:31). Interestingly, he made no attempt to define love but instead described its importance and expression.

The type of love Paul is talking about isn’t human in origin but, rather, comes from God—a part of His very nature. It’s unselfish, sacrificial love that acts on behalf of someone else. Since the Lord wants to transform our character into the image of His Son, this priority makes perfect sense. You see, whenever we display such selfless care for one another, that’s when we are the most like Christ.

The first three verses of this chapter issue us a warning. Without the motivation of love, all our good deeds—even service for the Lord—will profit us nothing. In God’s eyes, a loving spirit is more important than all our impressive words, knowledge, faith, generosity, and self-sacrifice. When we stand before Christ to be judged for our good works, those deeds done for selfish reasons will not be worthy of reward.
We are all blinded to some degree when it comes to our motives, so discerning why we serve God or do good deeds can be difficult. Pray to know your heart’s hidden intentions, and replace any self-centred motivations with His “more excellent way” of love. Then your works will be of eternal value.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8
“Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.”


1 John 4:7
“Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God”

Luke 6:31
“Do to others as you would have them do to you.”

IT IS WELL. GOD BLESS

Thanks a lot Op, indeed "Love works no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law" Romans 13:10

But this love is not in us except we,"15 Do not love or cherish the world or the things that are in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh [craving for sensual gratification] and the lust of the eyes [greedy longings of the mind] and the pride of life [assurance in one’s own resources or in the stability of earthly things]—these do not come from the Father but are from the world [itself].
17 And the world passes away and disappears, and with it the forbidden cravings (the passionate desires, the lust) of it; but he who does the will of God and carries out His purposes in his life abides (remains) forever.
Amplified Bible (AMP)

LightIndarkness:
Every Body know that Jewish killed Jesus Christ and they don't Believe that he is the Messaih.

So they Believe in the Other Messaih Whom he is son of David

So my Q. is this Who is the AntiChrist is it the one that Jewish Believe or the one that Christain Believe?

Hope the Answer would be from the holy bible

And What's the name of Jewish Messaih?

Sorry for my poor english

The Lord Jesus Christ is the One and Only Messiah. He was rejected by the Jews chiefly due to the influence of the Sanhedrin and Pharisees (Matthew 27:20, Matthew 28:12,13 );and they are still expecting the Messiah. The period of the 7-year great tribulation will be characterised by the coming of the anti-christ ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3-10, Daniel 9:26b,27, Revelations 13 etc). At the end of this period Jesus will come with the Armies of Heaven and saints (Revelations 19:11-21), the Jews, having realised that Jesus is the Messiah, will receive Him with real sorrow for their earlier rejection see Zechariah 12:8-10.and Revelations 1:7 I have not been able to quote these references because I'm typing with a phone. But I believe you can look them up.

bingbagbo:
"The Christian religion in the 3rd century made no compromise with any of the pagan religions and kept far away from the numerous intersections out of which, under the influence of the monotheistic philosophy of religion, a now religiousness developed itself. But the spirit of this religiousness entered into the Church and produced forms of expression in doctrine and cultus to correspond with itself. The testament of primitive Christianity-the Holy Scriptures-and the testament of antiquity-the New-Platonic speculation-were by the end of the 3d century intimately and, as it seemed, inseparably united in the great churches of the East. Through the acceptance of the Logos- Christology as the central dogma of the Church, the Church doctrine was, even for the laity, firmly rooted in the soil of Hellenism. Thereby it became a mystery to the great majority of Christians" (Outlines of the History of Dogma, Adolf Harnack, p193).

"At first the Christian Faith was not trinitarian. It was not so in the Apostolic and sub-Apostolic ages, as reflected in the New Testament and of the early Christian writings [Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics]."

Regarding the bolded, error is what you get when you do your research using the wrong sources and a biased mind (instead of the Bible itself while depending on the Holy Spirit) ; consider the prayer of the early church and explain the highlighted text in the light of the bolded in your post:
"24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is: 25 who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things? 26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, 28 for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done. 29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word, 30 by stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.

Or how would you explain this,"Matthew 22:44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?"

Or this,"1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one".

Op, this is much academic activity not for discovery but to substantiate your belief. In other words you already had your conclusion before embarking on a literature review! However, I'd urge you to seek the Lord and His Word with an open mind on the subject.

How would you apply your claims to a basic verse as John 3:16," For God so loved the World , that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"? Else can you grant us your own exegesis of Isaiah 53? Or can you, in the light of your treatise, clarify Philippians 2:5-11,
"5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.

6 Though he was God,[a]
he did not think of equality with God
as something to cling to.
7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges[b];
he took the humble position of a slave[c]
and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,[d]
8 he humbled himself in obedience to God
and died a criminal’s death on a cross.
9 Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor
and gave him the name above all other names,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11[b] and every tongue declare that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.[/b]

Op needs to understand that man's limitations also affects his intellect in no small way. In other words, no man is mentally perfect hence it will be a case of chronic self-conceit to subject the acceptability or otherwise of a concept to the judgement of our intellects.["My intellect cant grasp it therefore it's a fallacy"] Especially when there are enough proofs to the contrary. When you read the epistles, you will notice the use of the words-by revelation: Galatians 1:12, Galatians 2:2, Ephesians 3:3- meaning there is only one way the understanding of these things can be grasped. Now, logical explanations can come after revelation but not before.

The op appears to be going about this using his intellect based on knowledge accumulated from nature and that's where the mistake of many lies.

oluchikeh:
Good day brethren,

The scripture below tells the story of a rape committed in israel that led to the death of the woman and eventually a war against the Benjamites.

My Observation: This war was sanctioned by God and God determined that Judah should go first into battle why then did they loose men on the first and second days until God specifically said that they'll win on the third day?

My Question: Was God doing this on purpose? what was the death of the Israelites in the first 2days expected to achieve?



Judges Chapter 20 : 18-end
.

The first attempt was their decision. They only sought God for a rubber stamp approval which obviously they would have ignored if God had remained silent.

The same applies to the second attempt. Shocked by the vileness of the act, their minds were made up. Ezekiel 14:4 "Therefore speak to them and say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Every man of the house of Israel who takes his idols [of self-will and unsubmissiveness] into his heart and puts the stumbling block of his iniquity [idols of silver and gold] before his face, and yet comes to the prophet [to inquire of him], I the Lord will answer him, answer him according to the multitude of his idols,"

Note that these men were astonished by the heinous act of the Benjamite but they also were guilty of idolatry, forsaking God and totally abandoning the law of God, but since ,to them, it was a 'small' sin nothing was done to confront it. They closed their eyes to the beam in their eye and focussed the beam in their brother's eye.

The last attempt was preceded with repentance, brokeness and surrender,"Then all the Israelite troops went back up to Bethel and wept, just sitting there in the LORD’s presence. They fasted that whole day until evening. Then they offered entirely burned offerings and well-being sacrifices to the LORD. 27 Now in those days the chest containing God’s covenant was there, 28 and Phinehas, Eleazar’s son and Aaron’s grandson, was in charge of ministering before it. The Israelites asked the LORD, “Should we march out once again to fight our relatives the Benjaminites or should we give up?” If they had done this before the first attempt, victory was sure.

The op's questions are best understood when you consider the 70 weeks prophesied by Daniel in Daniel 9:24-27. It spells out the timetable of God. Read through patiently.
,"24 Seventy weeks [of years, or 490 years] are decreed upon your people and upon your holy city [Jerusalem], to finish and put an end to transgression, to seal up and make full the measure of sin, to purge away and make expiation and reconciliation for sin, to bring in everlasting righteousness (permanent moral and spiritual rectitude in every area and relation) to seal up vision and prophecy and prophet, and to anoint a Holy of Holies.
25 Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem until [the coming of] the Anointed One, a Prince, shall be seven weeks [of years] and sixty-two weeks [of years]; it shall be built again with [city] square and moat, but in troublous times.
26 And after the sixty-two weeks [of years] shall the Anointed One be cut off or killed and shall have nothing [and no one] belonging to [and defending] Him. And the people of the [other] prince who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood; and even to the end there shall be war, and desolations are decreed.
27 And he shall enter into a strong and firm covenant with the many for one week [seven years]. And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and offering to cease [for the remaining three and one-half years]; and upon the wing or pinnacle of abominations [shall come] one who makes desolate, until the full determined end is poured out on the desolator.

by Public Domain
You will notice that verse 24 describes the mission of Christ on earth. and the price for this was paid by Christ as verse 26a pointed out at the end of the 62nd week. Now, the 69th week will end with the first phase of the second coming of Christ called the catching away of saints (rapture) between the 69th week and the remaining 1 week (that describes what will be the activities of the anti-christ called the prince as shown in verse 26b,27& Revelation 13 etc)is the mystery of the Church age.

The church age was born on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out. The church age ends with the rapture but the period being a mystery, its end is not given. This was a mystery to the old testament prophets Ephesians 3:5,6, 1 Peter 1:10-12. The Holy Spirit has been described as the," earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession."Ephesians 1:14. Earnest there is synonymous to an advance payment, a foretaste. Hence the full benefits of redemption will be realised after the end of 70th week. Now it's the fore-taste in a spiritual sense. And those who reject this disqualify themselves of the other when the full redemption comes.

Like some posters above pointed out, the church age brings out the spiritual benefits and restoration provided by the death of the Messiah. The 70th week will end with the coming of Christ to commence the Millenial reign,Revelations 19:11-21; the Millenial reign(a precursor to the Final redemption Isaiah 65:21-25.)Revelations 20:1-6; The battle of Gog and Magog and the devil's final judgement Revelations 20:7-10; and The Great White Throne Judgment Revelations 20:11-15.

After all the foregoing then there will be the full realisation of the benefits of redemption as described in Revelations 21:1-8,"...4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely."

kevoh:
Dodging the question isn't it? In other words you don't know the answer. Kindly, ask your god on behalf of the OP and post the answer here. Thanks

Well the op claimed not to be an atheist, hence if the question was for better understanding, the reply given should be found helpful. Thank you too. The answer is not far-fetched but I believe the op also has a Bible and same access to God that I have.

charlsecy:
I don't know if this is a smart or a dumb way to avoid the question!

Thanks a lot! Actually the op's reply would have guided my answer- was the post for a debate or in sincere search for answers? The reply I gave would help for the latter and I deduce from the post that that was the intention.

Pr0ton:
Why doubt his historicity? We can safely conclude here that Jude believed Enoch to be a historical figure and the one who made the prophecy...

"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied..."

No doubt about Enoch's existence but the book in question was the reference.

Whether or not from Enoch himself, the prophecy is regarded as non-canonical or non-inspired.

The issue of non-inspiration relates to the book of Enoch, not Enoch's prophecy. That is why I said there are also heretical books that might quote scripture. This neither proves such books are inspired nor refutes the inspiration of the passage thus quoted.

Lol. This is somewhat funny. If the prophecy was not in line with "other different things he wrote from the Scripture", why did he quote it at all?

The 'he' you are referring to, is definitely not Jude but the writer of the book of Enoch.

Even if the prophecy is non-inspired? Did you read what you pasted up there?

Of course it was inspired. Enoch was a man that walked with God 2 Peter 1:21," Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.". But anyone can quote an inspired prophecy in his literary work to gain acceptance among a larger audience even though he is peddling error.

Oh yeah. Never. But then the Bible should have greater reputation. Even if other non-inspired books quote from it, it, being divinely inspired, shouldn't quote from non-inspired ones, else, its claim of uniqueness tarnishes - it becomes like others, non-inspired.

2 Peter 1:21," Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." Enoch's prophecy spoken by Enoch, being a holy man of God in the ante-deluvian period, was inspired; the book of Enoch, written by another person who quoted Enoch's inspired prophecy, was not inspired. Hence the denominating of the book itself appears deceptive. Perhaps, the only words traceable to Enoch are the ones quoted while the rest of the book are the author's.

You should compare the verses again. Jude 1:14-15 and Enoch 1:9.

The very import of Methuselah's name is enough to preserve the prophecy down through the ages. Else, it is nothing for God who inspired Enoch, to inspire Jude through His Holy Spirit to write it exactly as it happened same applies to the case of Moses Jude 1:9

Are you saying the prophet of old i.e Enoch received his inspiration from God?

Yes. 2 Peter 1:21," Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." Once again note that Enoch did not write the book of Enoch it was written centuries later and apart from the prophecy quoted by the author, others were his. This is accentuated by the fact that the art of writing as it is known today was almost non-existent then.

What we don't know is when The Book of Enoch was written, who the author was, or what Jude was quoting. [b]The best I can tell, the Biblical figure Enoch was not the author, but rather, someone who lived closer to the time of Christ, or possibly even after, based on some of the references[/b]There are many arguments on all sides of this debate, but the real question in the back of many Christian minds is:

Is it Scripture?

Is this the Holy-Spirit inspired word of God? This is where we can pretty confidently say "no". If it were Scripture, we would expect it to be free of false doctrine. What we find instead is that false doctrine is one of the most prevalent themes in the book!

Taking a cursory look at the text up through Chapter 59, I found the following false doctrines. (I may be off on one here or there, but it should be sufficient to get my point across.)

1:1 Implies restoration during tribulation - not congruent with scriptures.

1:8 In conflict with the doctrine that peace was made at the cross. Also, in the last days tribulation will increase for the righteous - this "verse" seems to dispute that.

2:2-3 Appears to contradict 2 Pet 3:3-7

5:4 Is an admonition to some unknown party - this is very irregular relative to the scriptures (i.e. authentic ancient writings by God-fearing Jews) culled from christianity.stackexchange.com.

Indeed Enoch prophesied and in fact the very name of his son -Methuselah- was a prophecy of the deluge after the demise of Methuselah. However, the book was written by someone else who simply quoted Enoch's prophecy. Hence Jude's quoting the same prophecy does not in any way invalidate the NT Since:
1. The author only quoted Enoch but wrote other things different from Scripture.
2. We can count on the inspiration of the prophecy of a righteous man however I doubt if writing was an activity then!
3. There are many like heretical books today that also quote the Bible. This does not mean such books are inspired.
4. It is possible that Jude wrote that through direct inspiration else which book was quoted when reference was made to the conflict over the body of Moses? Note that no Israelite knew the burial place of Moses let alone the occurrences after his death.Jude 1:9
5. Since God revealed what was to come to the prophets of old, is it any big deal that He revealed those things that were past too moreso the very words He inspired?

Many eg Voltaire etc have tried to conquer, defame, refute the Bible but the Bible has continued long after they exited the world! Others who tried were rather conquered thereby eg Augustus,Finney etc. The choice is yours. Millions have found Christ through these same Word and have been transformed, many more are doing so on a daily basis.

radicalove:
You are close to the same thought I had in mind. But why would an All-knowing God forget such

OP, if you sincerely need answers, go to God in prayers. Except if all you want is a debate. I have done the same on issues which appear more serious than the ones you have raised and I am the better for it.

bingbagbo:
I will be right back.......

op, you have posted your questions in the wrong place and sought answers (or back-ups?!) from the wrong sources. Ever saw God reply a poster on NL? Direct them to God in prayer and search the word, with an open mind.

EzioAuditore:
your claims about who was created first, beast or man.You just quoted other verses that said beast was created before man, what about the verses that say man was created before beast as in Gen 2:19? Your explanation on that was not an explanation at all

The reference I made to God's declaration that the man to be created will have dominion over the fish of the sea, fowl of the air etc Shows that those animals were already created b4 the making of man. Like I said Genesis 2:19 is a summary of chapter 1.

You still haven't explained why I'm verse verse jesus says God is greater than him and in another claims They are one.

The verse I quoted showed clearly that though He was One with the Father, yet He made Himself in the likeness of man and became a Servant meaning the reference that the Father was greater than Himself was said after the same pattern of humbling Himself and becoming obedient unto death. Another example is John 1:1,3 shows that all things were made by Him but 5:19 shows that He came to earth stripped of the glory of Deity

Your explanation about how many pairs of animals went into the ark is well...bs! One talks about clean beasts in sevens, then the other says both clean and unclean were in twos??

Genesis 7:9 clearly shows that the twos being referred to in verse 9 is that of the animals being male and female. I believe reading the text should clear all doubts.

The part about the sins of the father, well you were just babbling there.

Fine. The facts are verifiable though. Further clarifications can be gleaned from Ezekiel 18

And the part about Jesus' last words, how many last words can a person have? One persons says this is his last words and another says it's another? Who is lying there?

No one is lying. Like I said that is why we have four gospels. Each was written to a different audience and they complement each other. Now John wrote that Jesus while on the cross committed the care of His mother to a disciple. That no other gospel says this does not mean it did not happen. That John's gospel was silent about the transfiguration does not mean it never took place! And the omission of the sermon on the mount by John and Mark does not mean others were lying!

The part about David's anger well you are twisting that. One Verse clearly states God moved him against the Israelites and the other states the Israelites were the ones who incited his anger?

The other did not state that the Israelites incited David but satan did hence my quote on breaking a hedge.

I would also like to know about the genealogy of Jesus which you claim to have been refuted.

I gave a reply to a similar question you posted. You repeated that.

The part about whether man can see God or not, come'on mate, that's just gibberish, I don't think anything can save you from that.

No problem but realise that the place I quoted which explains your question was spoken by God Himself

Some parts you claim to have been refuted somewhere else.

Yes like the issue of going to Heaven. All those whose life pleased God from Adam up till the thief on the cross, went to Paradise, also called the Third Heaven in 2 Corinth 12:2,4. Between paradise and hell is a great gulf Luke 16:22,23,26 The Heaven Jesus referred to is the one in Matthew 5:34 where God's Throne and the River of Life is John 1:18.

This were the ones I had time to dig out. Goodluck

Alright.

EzioAuditore:
Scholar8200, you are the first christian to produce an understandable explanation for some of these contradictions, I agree there might be MIS interpretations on my part, but in most cases, what you've done is pick one verse without any giving any reason why you're rejecting the other. Typical selective morality, you pick out the one that suits you and fits into your theory but reject others. But I must say you've cleared doubts about one or two of these contradictions, while others you just danced around or washed.

Do point out the culprits; I will be glad to make myself clear.

UncleSnr:
Won't you die before you go to heaven?

Dear uncle,
kindly note that the word henceforth comes after the 144,000 were sighted with the Lamb, and it is a continuous chapter not broken into paragraphs.

Regards

EzioAuditore:
God good to all, or just a few?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

God is eternally, essentially Good. The second reference in its context referred to a nation that had ,"forsaken the Lord ... saying to a stock, thou art my father; and to a stone,thou hast brought me forth" a nation that were "wise to do evil" and every one neighed after his neighbor's wife". A nation that was told by God to," ask for the... good paths ...but they said we will not walk therein".(culled from Jeremiah). Now Judgment was pronounced with the expectation that that will make them repent but they refused! God's goodness is not the same as indulgence while we spurn all warnings in impenitence else the devil should be given an unreserved apology. Nineveh was just as bad, but when they repented, they were spared. Indeed God is good.

War or Peace?
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

The Lord fights to deliver His people from their enemies and gives peace to His people. No contradiction there! The Lord delivers His people from guilt and restores peace in their hearts. Perfect redemption that!

Who is the father of Joseph?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Joseph was the son of Jacob and son-in-law to Heli. It was genealogical practice to include son-in-law in wife's family tree. Israel was an inheritance-conscious nation. see Numbers 36:8

Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it:
MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

The omission of a name does not necessarily mean contradiction. The real contradiction will be if it had said they had to enlist the services of the Roman soldiers to roll away the stone in one book, and said an angel did so in another.

Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.

JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Philippians 2:6,7,"Who being in the Form of God...made Himself of no reputation and took upon Him the form of a Servant..." This explains the reason for John 14:28. Jesus is the Son of God and Son of Man.

Which first--beasts or man?
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

The beasts were created before the man see Genesis 1:26," Let Us make man in our Image, and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle..." The animals were in existence b4 Adam. Gen 2:19 only summarised what was in Chapter 1

The number of beasts in the ark
GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

Genesis 7:9 explains the two being referred to viz: There went in two and two..., the male and the female..." while vs 2 referred to 7 pairs of clean, 2 pairs of unclean.

How many stalls and horsemen?
KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

I am trying to study this but my perception is that the one used the actual no of horses while the other counted in groups. Eg Mr A says I saw 5 bouquets of flowers each containing 4 while B may say I saw 20 bouquets of flowers. The latter statement is trying to say he saw 20 flowers and uses the word bouquet used to refer to a collection of flowers while the former statement clarifies it. Note that the first quote says stall of horses while the other counts stalls for horses

Is it folly to be wise or not?
PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

1 Cor.1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

A check on the contexts will reveal that the last two verses refer to the knowledge and understanding and wisdom obtained from secular/academic learning, while the first reference refers to the wisdom mentioned in Job 28:28," ...behold the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom" and also to the Wisdom of God as revealed in the the Redemption provided through Christ.

The sins of the father
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Yes but if the son continues in the sin of his father, he will be judged and that is what Babylon, for whom the first reference was written for, was guilty of. Isa 14:4,6,22,"thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon...how has the oppressor ceased! he who ...ruled the nations in anger... for I will rise up against them, and cut off from Babylon" Now Nebuchadnezzar was once the king of Babylon (and Israel his captives) but he repented after a remedial judgement came but his grandson Belshazzar (Daniel 5:1,2,18,21,22) who took over from him went a step further and did what even his granddad never dared and judgement came in proximate fulfilment of Isaiah 14.

Fowl from waters or ground?
GEN 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

GEN 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Genesis 2:19 summarises the events of chapter 1. By the way, is it not possible that some were from water while others were from the earth? After all, Gen 1:20 talks of fowls that will fly in the firmament alone but we all know that not all fowls fly!

Earth supported?
JOB 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

JOB 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

First quote has been verified by those who visited outer space. The second quote refers to the surface of the earth i.e. terra firma, on where we are. The imagery used by Job is that of building.

Heaven supported too
JOB 26:11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.

Where is the contradictory verse here?

Moses'personality
Num.12:3: "Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the fact of the earth."

Num.31:14, 17, 18: "And Moses was wroth...And Moses said unto them, "Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman, ... But all the women children ... keep alive for yourselves."

Yes a person is meek when what is at stake is his right,privilege etc as shown in Moses attitude to his sister's accusation: no self defense or assertion of superiority. But this meekness becomes man-pleasing weakness when a commandment given by God is disobeyed and he , being the leader, turns a blind eye. How do you define meekness?

Righteous live?
Ps.92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."

Isa.57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."

Perishes used in the second quote simply refers to death.

Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?

Matt.5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."

Luke6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."

Luke 6:18,19 shows what happened after they came to the plain. Verse 20 is another paragraph which reports another occurrence.

Jesus' last words

Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

Yes , He said all those on the Cross. That is why we have four Gospels. They are complementary. One reports what might have been left out by the other.

Moved David to anger?
II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Isreal and Judah.
I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Isreal, and provoked David to number Israel.

the first quote shows God's displeasure against Israel due to sin and God allowed the adversary to do certain things as the second quote shows. The hedge was broken and a serpent struck.Ecclesiastes 10:8b

The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?
In two places in the New Testament the genealogy of Jesus son of Mary (PBUH) is mentioned. Matthew 1:6-16 and Luke 3:23-31. Each gives the ancestors of Joseph the CLAIMED husband of Mary and Step father of Jesus(PBUH). The first one starts from Abraham(verse 2) all the way down to Jesus. The second one from Jesus all the way back to Adam. The only common name to these two lists between David and Jesus is JOSEPH, How can this be true? and also How can Jesus have a genealogy when all Muslims and most Christians believe that Jesus had/has no father.

This is a repetition.It has been answered on another thread and in a previous question above.

God be seen?
Exod. 24:9,10; Amos 9:1; Gen. 26:2; and John 14:9
God CAN be seen:

"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (Ex. 33:23)

"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (Ex. 33:11)

"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (Gen. 32:30)
God CANNOT be seen:

"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (Ex. 33:20)

"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1 Tim. 6:16)

As far back as Numbers 11:8," With him will I speak mouth to mouth...and the Similitude of the Lord shall he behold..." Besides,your last quote already clarifies John 1:18

CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:
"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (Jer. 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."

"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (James 5:11)

"For his mercy endureth forever." (1 Chron. 16:34)

"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (Ps. 145:9)

"God is love." (1 John 4:16)

This is a repetition. it has been answered in one of the preceding questions.

Tempts?
"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (Gen 22:1)

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (James 1:13)

Hebrews 11:17, clarifies what the context of the first quote reveals to any unbiased mind,"By faith, Abraham, when he was TRIED..."

Judas died how?
"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (Matt. 27:5)

"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)

The last verse describes what must have happened when he was to be buried. Judas , no doubt would have remained on that tree for quite a time. The sabbath was near and the passover was just rounding up and at such time no jew will touch a dead body.

Ascend to heaven
"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2 Kings 2:11)

"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (John 3:13)

Kindly check the religious section for this topic: Confusion: was Jesus the First Person to Enter Heaven after His Resurrection?

What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial?
Before the cock crow - Matthew 26:34

Before the cock crow twice - Mark 14:30

How many times did the cock crow?
MAR 14:72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.

MAT 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.

MAT 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

LUK 22:60 And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.

LUK 22:61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.

JOH 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, still thou hast denied me thrice.

JOH 18:27 Peter then denied again: and immediately the cock crew.

The first reference clarifies everything, the cock was to crow once in the meanwhile Peter would deny Christ.

Who killed Saul

SA1 31:4 Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.

SA1 31:5 And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead, he fell likewise upon his sword, and died with him.

SA1 31:6 So Saul died, and his three sons, and his armourbearer, and all his men, that same day together.

SA2 1:15 And David called one of the young men, and said, Go near, and fall upon him. And he smote him that he died.

Saul killed himself but the 'him' in the last quote referred to an Amalekite who claimed to have killed Saul perhaps to gain favour see 2 Samuel 4:10 ," when one told me saying, Behold, Saul is dead thinking to have brought good tidings...thought that i would have given him a reward for his tidings.

UncleSnr:
Revelation 14:3–5 (ESV)

And they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. For it is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.

Revelations 14:13
"...Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth..." This was stated after the one you just quoted and does not include the 144,000.

ProphetUdeme:
mehn youre truly a scholar. This is what i was about to post to keep him in silence

Glory to God.

UncleSnr:
Heaven, home of celstial bliss...


From the clear facts there, its only 144,000 souls that will make heaven... As of today, there are more than 7billion people alive. Does it mean that those that have died haven't occupied those slots?

Revelations 7:9,15 "After this I beheld,and,lo, a great multitude which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Throne, and before the Lamb... therefore are they before the Throne of God" I think this settles it.

Zikdik:
Dissociative identity disorder ( DID), previously known
as multiple personality disorder ( MPD ), [1] is a mental
disorder on the dissociative spectrum characterized by at
least two distinct and relatively enduring identities or
dissociated personality states that alternately control a
person's behavior..
Schizophrenia ( /ˌskɪtsɵˈfrɛniə/ or /ˌskɪtsɵˈfriːniə/ ) is a
mental disorder often characterized by abnormal social
behavior and failure to recognize what is real . Common
symptoms include false beliefs , unclear or confused thinking ,
auditory hallucinations , reduced social engagement and
emotional expression..
I was doing some leisure reading some days ago and couldn't help noticing the similarities between the following phenomena:
1) Jesus
2) Multiple Personality Disorder
3) Schizophrenia
Jesus needs no introduction. The bulk of us get introduced to him daily anyway. I'd try to summarize his story below.
Born of a "virgin" who happened was inseminated by an Alien from the milky way, He secluded himself from civilization at about age 30 and then begun his ministry at age 30. He was convicted of conspiracy and treasonable felony at 33 and was executed according to the Roman laws.
During the course of his ministry, he usually referred to his personality in dual and contrasting terms- Lion & Lamb, Bread & Wine, Beginning and End, Saviour and Judge.
Sounds familiar? Yes, multiple personality disorder. More familiar, schizophrenia. The psychology of contrasting personalities, hearing voices, reduced social engagement (Ye are not of this world) was and are typical amongst this attributes of Jesus and his followers.
From delusional beliefs like being able to move mountains with the mind, to dangerous ones with the cannibalistic tendencies of eating flesh and drinking blood, the aforementioned psychological disorders are hopelessly obvious in the life of Christ. He needed help and should be pitied, not worshipped.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

cc: mmsen, rationalmind, ooman, weigraf, platteon, rudedough, onetrack

@ op, The highlighted text is an honour to me! Jesus loves you too!!!( Father forgive them for they know not what they type).

MuttleyLaff:
Scholar8200, add ] immediately after 1, in [quote author=MuttleyLaff post=33284431, so you can quote me properly

I have responses to all your posts prepped up here, I'll upload them as soon as you have inserted that missing closing bracket sign

Thanks for that. Look forward to your responses, do keep them scriptural.

The Church in the context of this discussion refers to the gathering of believers in Christ under a leader/overseer see Acts 20:28 and 1Peter 5:1-3. Note that the reference in Acts 18:24-26 was not the church in the house of the said couple, it was a sharing session between the couple and Apollos. Also see the usage of the word - Church- by Christ in Revelations 2 & 3 vis a vis the two references I quoted.

MuttleyLaff:
Scholar8200, before I submit my responses to your two last posts, lets be clear where and how you stand on this subjerct matter
What is your stance, put your neck on the line.
Are you saying Paul said women should remain quiet in church?
and like I earlier desired to know about elveco,
I wonder too, what your definition of church is
and curious to know your understanding of what church is or what church is about.

My stance is in alignment with 1 Timothy 2:11,12,13,"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, the Eve."

The last verse (13)clearly refutes the claim that Paul wrote this or any other like verse because the women were not educated!!! How many men were?! It rather shows the source/cause of this authority. We can liken this to the first born in a family who retains authority and responsibility by virtue of being born earlier than other kids ; though he/she may have siblings who are more brilliant, wealthy etc yet, the authority and responsibility of being the first born remains uncontested.

If you look at the order of worship in the home and tabernacle/gathering of believers, this has always been the pattern. Job who lived before the law stood as the spiritual head and priest for his family ditto Abraham. Under the law, only men were to be high priest, priest and levites but note that this was within the tabernacle. Outside the tabernacle, Deborah judged Israel and even summoned a man, Barak, to go to battle and the latter, recognising her as a prophetess, requested her presence with him on the battlefield! and the victory was won by a woman!(no sexist will include this). There was also Huldah who was God's mouthpiece at her time and she delivered a very strong message in response to the king's request who recognised the anointing she had! In the early church, the first set of deacons were men (ACts 6)! Or do we accuse Christ for choosing 12 men as apostles? Or do we accuse the writers of the synoptic gospels as 'sexist' when Luke clearly stated that women eg Susanna, Joanna, Mary and many others, played a vital role as economic powerhouse for Christ and His disciples(Luke 8:2 -3)?

It's not a case of one being inferior or superior to the other, but simply of order!

MuttleyLaff:
Reading the web link and this post above further accentuates my post to Scholar8200
about us are now living in a rapidly changing what-used-to-be an exclusive man's world
but thank you God, this man's world, wouldn't be nothing, it'll be nothing without a woman

It was never man's world right from the beginning! That belief belongs to the secular society.

1 Corinthians 11:11,12,"Nevertheless, neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman..." Read through the law and see for yourself. All these would have been edited if there indeed existed a desire to subjugate the women. Come to think of it, GOD Himself does not subjugate man or angels, He will rather have us submit willingly though decisions have consequences.

By the way, neo-subjugation is when men see women as sex objects to be conquered and defiled no more, no less- this also has no place among believers.

The Inspired writings of Paul ( not opinions!) has and still has nothing to do with literacy etc 1 Corinthians 14:40 says to,"let all things be done decently and in order.

The topic should have read: Some Pastors will lead you to Hell. The Church comprise all believers in Christ hence who is the victim being warned?. If anyone will lead the other to hell, it will be the one in leadership..

I like the reference to Acts 18:24-26, it further accentuates my penultimate post. A sexist translator will not mention Priscilla, yet her name is mentioned almost if not all times her husband's name was mentioned! Also note that the context of the couple's activity was in their home, not the assembly of believers.

MuttleyLaff:
Affirmative, yes it is also applicable to the reference from Timothy
As a matter of fact, Paul was repeating questions with answers, in both 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2:11-12

Kindly prove that with scriptures specifically spelling out where reference was made to a 'Letter from Timothy'.

You better start thinking so now
and imbibe Romans 12:2, to be transformed by the renewing of your mind We are now living in a rapidly changing what used to be an exclusive man's world
but thank you God, this man's world, wouldn't be nothing, it'll be nothing without a woman

Renewing the mind is not the same as changing the Word! I'm yet to see where it is implied or expressed in scripture that it's a man's world and that the women are not as important!

Head of what? Head of who? Head to whom?
I hope your are not taking "reference to man as the head" as subjugation

Hasty conclusion that! Note that the Bible reference to man as the head might have been abused by many as an excuse to oppress women, flatter their ego etc But the real stance as stated in Ephesians 5:22-33. Connotes sacrifice by the head for the good of the body. Besides, the case of Adam and Eve and God's demand from the man shows that in the first family as well as all, the man stands answerable to God for all that happens, something similar was said of Abraham Genesis 18:19. Else why would God confront Eli on the licentiousness of his sons?

Likewise man(used generically to mean both male and female) was created to subdue( or subjugate) the earth, (not the women or each other) and the cattle and every creeping thing. The submission of women prescribed in Ephesians 5:22,24 is something of the will, a choice to be made by the woman, not forced or enforced by the man hence the allusion to Christ and the Church as the standard! At present Christ never forces us to submit to His Lordship!

So, if some are carnally misinterpreting the reference to the man as head as a call to be worshipped by the women, then it wont be fair to accuse the translators for the blindness of such people. If they were promoting sexism like you said, why would they record the issue of the daughters of Zelophehad in Numbers 27 and the fairness and openness with which Moses handled the issues they raised as regards inheritance? And why did they clearly state that the Ethiopian eunuch, a man, was the subject/subordinate of Candace, a woman, in Acts 8:27?(in an official setting) and Although Miriam became leprous for 7 days when she tried to claim equality with Moses,Uzziah the king became leprous for the rest of his life when he did a similar thing with the priests, what then?
How about all the laws in the Pentateuch meant to protect women(available on request) both the married and unmarried?

These views may not be popular but thank God they are scriptural!

JMAN05:
I commend ur scriptural insight. Are u a real bible scholar, that passed thru a theological school?

I 'll take time to reveal ur answer i reply later.

No I havent but the Holy Spirit teaches us all things if we'll learn.

JMAN05:
What led to ur conclusion about 2cor. 12:2, 4?

Paradise mentioned in vs 4 was called the third Heaven in vs 2. That's why when saints of the OT died, it was said that they were,"gathered unto [b]their[/b]people eg Genesis 49:33b.

Remember Christ telling the thief on the Cross," ...today shalt thou be with me in paradise" He was not referring to Heaven (God's Throne) because He said Today, not three days' time or after resurrection. And after His resurrection, He said,"...I am not yet ascended to My Father"Luke 20:17. I believe this partly explains the occurrence in Matthew 27:52,53

Now when you consider Luke 16:22,23,26 You will see that between Paradise and Hell, there is a great gulf fixed. However, when Heaven (God's Throne) is disclosed in Revelations, nothing of the such is mentioned. And I may dare to say that the Holy Place seems to symbolise Paradise, while The Holy of Holies where the Ark was, symbolized Heaven where God's Throne is. Because of Christ, those who die in the faith of Christ no longer go to paradise but Heaven. Revelations 6:9,10,11(Altar mentioned here is the one in Heaven see Rev 8:3)

JMAN05:
those apocryphals are not inspired. The Jews who produced the bible Jesus used in the first century never used them. It was never part of there canon.

don't allow him to push u to accept.

Definitely (rgds the bolded)! I gave that reply because I dont want to press issues too far hence I just assumed that the DT's inclusion could be likened to the concordance etc that comes with some Bibles today. I guess no one ever takes a message text from either (I've not seen one). Actually I'd expected that the initial reply I gave regarding the inter - testament period and the halt in Divine revelations, evidences from Christ & Peter etc should be enough proof. Thanks.

btoks:
Yes, the books are inspired but your basis for knowing this is weak.
Chapter 1 talks about the gospel but this was very likely referring to the oral rather than written gospel. (No books were mentioned)
Please go back to the history of the bible complilation. The only time anyone definitely removed books from the bible was in the 16th century by Martin Luther. In the early days of christianity there were obviously debates as to the canonicity of scriptures,which books were inspired or not etc. but no council defined the canon until the late 4th Century and difinitively by the council of Trent in the 16th Century. In all cases, the DT books were included.
If by the hebrews you mean the supposed council around 100 AD, these people also rejected the entire NT.
There is no Christian council that ever confirmed that the 7 DT books were not inspired. In fact the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox and oriental churches (All linked to the early church) all have the DTs in the canon.

All I'm trying to point out is that your conclusion of certain books not be inspired is not based on historical fact.

It's okay. I would see it this way- there are Bibles that include the DT, there are Bibles sans the DT, there are Bibles with commentary, archaeologicals & concordance included, there are also Bibles with just a scant dictionary. As long as none tampers with the original message of the Bible, no problem.