₦airaland Forum

An2elect2:
LOL unbiased seeker? you are joking right.

What have been said/quoted? all i see are people picking random scriptures to justify their false conclusion of who God is.

Does the scripture teach trinity? hell no! someone reading the bible for the first time without any dogma coming in between will not see any trinity! but one God! stop lying!

Alright then. Clarify your position with references from the NT and OT with respect to original contexts.

An2elect2:
Am sorry but this does not answer the question

Okay. Thankfully, it does to any unbiased seeker.

You say there are three persons who are co equal, co eternal in one God. And i ask where in the bible is God described this way,

A lot has been said/quoted on this thread as regards this, do refer to them.

Now a single verse in the whole OT and NT describes Jesus as Father and the alternate usage of that word (another is in Judges) and how the speaker (Joseph as quoted) was thus made was shown and you choose to close your eyes to it? Even when the explanation given is corroborated by other verses both in the OT and NT? And the position which you hold (which the intellect, as imperfect and under-utilised as it is, accomodates) contradicts other parallel scriptures? If you insist that the usage of father as explained is twisted, kindly substantiate your own position from the OT and NT, with respect to appropriate contexts and parallel verses.

Hello op, your outburst is understandable but not justifiable. Indeed, your take off point is similar to that of people who we call great, successful etc today. I am acquainted with one who went thru similar condition, lost 2 siblings, chased from home and house was sold by dad, now squats in community where he was once landlord's kid etc but such an one can still testify of the fact that God is good and is a very present help in time of trouble as a prayer answering God.. True your parents have taken courses in life that are negative, you can turn the tide for yourself and family. . If you dont mind can I ask. 1. What was your relationship with God at the time you were praying? 2. What promises were you holding to? 3. Did you make the hard choice of forgiving your parents while praying or felt justified holding a grudge against them? I ask these because the bible clearly states that asking should be done in faith [that comes by the Word], without holding to sin[Psalm 66:18], and with forgiveness.[ mark 11:25,26] The latter one may appear very painful but it is a decision you must make ignoring the emotional protest within. Forgiving not because they deserve it but because you have to. Yours is not a difficult case. I've known cases of families caught in a labyrinth of spiritual confusion and the lives of the victims wastes/pines away either by sickness or mysterious deaths. John the baptist was imprisoned and he gave way to despair and depression making a statement similar to yours. He died in prison. Paul and Silas were handsomely rewarded for their evangelistic effort with scourging and imprisonment, they prayed and praised and were delivered. Peter was also imprisoned and could do neither of the preceding two so he kept mute and slept [in faith since Jesus had told him he'll live to old age b4 now John 21:18]. He was delivered. The choice is yours the ante-penultimate shows that depression and discouragement changes nothing but confirms your captivity. It's wrong to blame God for the consequences of man's decisions or actions. Many have faced worse cases but are today living testimonies of the goodness of a God that answers prayer.. [I am too hence it's too late for one to tell me there's no God! That's another story] Of course this does not mean just pray and dont work or take legitimate steps or opportunities. In any case the choice is yours.

Thanks a lot op. I appreciate your post.
I like this statement by Zac Poonen,
"God did not create man because He needed a servant. He already had millions of angels to serve Him. He created man because He wanted someone who would manifest His character and His nature.

If we forget this truth, it is easy to get sidetracked into imagining that service for God is the primary purpose of our salvation in Christ. This is the mistake that many believers have made."
And the secret to manifesting Him is to live a life of continual intimacy and fellowship with Him as modelled in John 1:18.and described in 1John as walking in the light as He is in the light and that way we shine forth and reflect Him Who is the Light of the World.

Iceking1:
Hello all Nairalanders, there is something that has been bodering my mind for some time now, and i thought to my self that i should just shoot it here in order for me to get the accurate answer to my question.



And the question is this, is there anything like hottest place in hell?

Why am asking this question is because it is written in the bible that all sins are equal in the sight of God

Alright op, let's start with you giving us the book, chapter and verse where the highlighted is written in the Bible.

An2elect2:
It is so easy to believe that there are three persons in one God from few passages in the new testament. How then do we explain the old testament where God is described multiple times as numerically one?

Hebrews 1:1,2 answers this,
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, ... Other passages like Psalm 2:11,12 ; Proverbs 30:4, Psalm 110:1 are all in the OT.

Okay that aside we are speaking of the Father here. Was prophet Isaiah not under the Unction of the Holy spirit when he said this in Isaiah 9:6?


"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is
given: and the government shall be upon his
shoulder: and his name shall be called
Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The
everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Is Jesus, the promised messiah not being referred to here as the Father? or are you saying there are two Fathers?

The use of the word Father there is the same usage in Genesis 45:8 spoken by Joseph when he became prime minister or one that administered Egypt
8 So now it was not you who sent me here, but God; and He has made me a father to Pharaoh and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt. Compare this with the rendition of the same verse in NIV
8 “So then, it was not you who sent me here, but God. He made me father to Pharaoh, lord of his entire household and ruler of all Egypt.
So the usage of Everlasting Father as concerns Jesus Christ, relates to His Lordship.

You may want to consider the striking similarity between Genesis 41:41-43 and Daniel 7: 13,14 as regards this.

texanomaly:
Even if he did say the world is flat, who cares? I don't know why people like to beat this dead horse and others from the Bible. That was the belief at the time. Is he going to tell people differently? He had a message to impart and a job to do. It had nothing to do with geography, astronomy, planetary science or any other study of the earth or the space around it. For people who claim to think logically, Atheists sure don't think in realistic practicalities.

At any rate, whatever you say there will be someone who will refute it with an answer that is just as convincing.

And the cycle continues...smh

I get your point; however i believe there are others on NL who read this and are not in the categories you alluded to.

As One familiar with the book of Isaiah, [as Luke 4:17,18 shows]Jesus never meant that the earth was flat! Centuries b4 the NT, Isaiah had, under inspiration, said ,"It is He that sits on the Circle of the earth. . . Isaiah 40:22. Here the structure of the earth is described. Rather the uttermost parts of the earth referred to other nations apart from the ones He mentioned and the use of the word uttermost is to show comparative distance from the point of discourse.. Another way to say it is unto every nation under heaven. Acts 2:5 some of which are mentioned in Acts 2:9-11."Parthians and Medes and Elamites, dwellers in Mesopotamia, Judea, and Cappadocia, Asia, Phrygia, Egypt, Libya(Africa) etc

bingbagbo:
1 Corinthians 12:3

Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Truth! Let me add, 1 Corinthians 8:6,"... The Father of Whom are all things, and we in Him; And One Lord Jesus Christ by Whom are all things, and we by Him" and 1 John 5:7," For There are three that bear record in Heaven, The Father,The Word, and The Holy Ghost: and These Three are One." and finally Hebrews 1:1,2" God Who at sundry times and divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son..."

Hell was originally meant for the devil and his angels Matt. 25:41b but when man choose to toe the same path of the devil, God being a God of justice will not deny such of the consequence of his choice. It's true love to warn me of the consequences of my decisions but if I reject your warning, it will be foolish of me to blame God or the person that warned me. Would we be wiser preachers than Jesus Who repeatedly warned about hell? Matt 5:30, Matt 18:9, Luke 12:5 etc

Holiness is the result(Romans 6:22b) of the impact of Grace in our lives. Titus 2:11-12,"for the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared . . . Teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world." We may get blessings from God which are only given with the expectation that they will lead to repentance. Romans 2:4,5" or do you despise the riches of His goodness... not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? But after the hardness and impenitence of your heart you keep for yourself wrath". This means if we fail to repent, receive the grace to live in holiness, judgement is sure. Like the church in Laodicea [Revelations 3:17] we may have all material blessings and still be filthy before God. God being a good God gives earthly blessings both to the good and evil but without Holiness no man shall see the Lord Hebrews 12:14b.

bingbagbo:
JOHN 4:22

You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.

OPEN YOUR EYES AND PRAY MY BROTHERS

John 4:23-26 shows that the Messiah sent by the Father, is distinct from the Father,"...worship the Father in spirit and in truth; the Father seeks such to worship Him. . . God is A Spirit. . . Messiah comes . . . Called Christ. . . I that speaks unto you am He"[THE MESSIAH].

bingbagbo:
WHO IS HE?

The Father to whom Jesus returned to after perfecting the redemption, John 14:12,"... I go unto My FATHER"

bingbagbo:
so which father again did Jesus reveal?

The Father referred to in John 14:9-12 and many other parallel verses.

Exactly what verse 9-12 and Luke 10:22 expressed as stated in my initial reply viz Jesus revealed the Father to His disciples. Jesus revealed the Father to His disciples.

bingbagbo:
i give you the benefit of the doubt, what did JESUS imply in that verse?

Exactly what verse 9-12 and Luke 10:22 expressed as stated in my initial reply viz Jesus revealed the Father to His disciples.

bingbagbo:

are u saying that JESUS lied in saying HOW CAN YOU ASK ME TO SHOW YOU THE FATHER?....I THE FATHER HAVE BEEN WITH YOU FOR LONG....DID JESUS LIE?

Kindly show me the highlighted text, verbatim, in your initial post. Now you twist that verse, even though this contradicts the immediately succeeding verses in the same chapter!
Note that any conclusion you arrive at that does not follow the line of thought declared by Jesus in verses 9 - 12,that conclusion is an error.

bingbagbo:
i Mean what is the meaning of the verses i quoted?

JESUS CLEARLY SAID HE WAS THE FATHER,....DO YOU DOUBT THAT?

Kindly show me this as stated verbatim in your initial quote.
And why are you allergic to the immediate verses 9-12? I guess they contradict what you think/wish vs 8 said! While they offer clarity to the unbiased.

bingbagbo:
DEVIATION!!!!......stick to that verse

What was deviated from? I simply quoted some verses in the same chapter you quoted that clearly explains the one you quoted! Telling me to stick to that verse and explain it 'from the brain' while ignoring other relevant verses explains why you are making the mistakes in interpretation you have made!

John 14:1-6 gives us the context
Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Let's go down to some verses in the same chapter, see John 14:9-12
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Jesus' life was such that The Father was revealed through Him. As Luke 10:22, declares, “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.” And He revealed the Father to the disciples as stated in John 17:6


This is why Jesus could pray the way He did in John 17:6
6 I have manifested Your Name [I have revealed Your very Self, Your real Self] to the people whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, and You gave them to Me, and they have obeyed and kept Your word.

I will reply your post in the reverse order.

First, let's see John 14:26, "but the Comforter, which is the HOLY GHOST, [/b]Whom the Father will send in My Name, He shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you". If you'll be sincere this verse alone clarifies the fact that the Comforter promised is the Holy Ghost. Else can you show us how your prophet fulfilled the roles spelt out in that verse to Christ's disciples and the roles plainly stated in John 16:7-14? John 14:16,17,"
16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter (Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby), that[b] He may remain with you forever—
17 The Spirit of Truth, Whom the world cannot receive (welcome, take to its heart), because it does not see Him or know and recognize Him. But you know and recognize Him, for He lives with you [constantly] and will be in you.

Yes, the Holy Spirit has been very active mostly with Kings, Prophets and few holy men but now He was to be sent to all that receive Jesus as Lord prophesied in Joel 2:28,29(28 And afterward I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions.
29 Even upon the menservants and upon the maidservants in those days will I pour out My Spirit.)

The ministry of the Spirit in the NT is to grant the believer a deeper and more intimate relationship and fellowship with the Father through the Son. And also to anoint the believer for service; blessings not possible for the masses in the OT. 1 John 4:13," hereby we know that we dwell in Him , and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit" Acts 1:8,"... You shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you".

I wish you quoted me before commenting because I never said we were free from the moral law! Christ declared that He came to fulfil(what was the ceremonial law) but in the same chapter went ahead to set forth God's unchanging righteous demands which His grace makes possible to those who are born of the Spirit.(John 3:8 ) and concluded that only the foolish wont do what He says while still calling Him their Lord.Luke 6:46. Meanwhile, the man that came to Jesus was told to take up the cross and follow Jesus Mark 10:21"... Come, take up the cross, and follow Me".

Your sweeping generalisation is appalling! You've debated with few folks on NL and think it logical to form conclusions based on the opinion of a few! Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial laws contained in animal sacrifices etc But the grace He provides enables us to walk before God in righteousness and love thus the moral demands of the law is fulfilled in and by us. God seeks us to worship Him from the heart do refer back to Deut. 5:29. Not we drawing near to Him when our hearts are far from Him. We can draw near because we fear the repercussion of not so doing but to God, that's not drawing near. You spoke of law being in the heart passively?! Out of the heart are the issues of life! Your reference to the prophecy of Jeremiah suggests you are not considering Who spoke there. Should we then change God's Word because a few NL folks do not believe? The person who typed this and that , is also a christian. What then?

The writing of the law in the heart as contained in the NT was also the experience of Christ as described by David in a manner that clearly showed God's preference in Psalm 40:6,7,8" sacrifice....burnt offering and sin offering Thou hast not required. Then said I... I delight to do Thy will O ... GOD:yes Thy law is within My Heart".Jesus was not only described as Prophet, He is also the , Priest forever after the Order of Melchizedek Psalm 110:4. In taking up humanity various titles are used to describe the roles He will fulfil.

Now you also said how can God put words in God's mouth? This will be understood when you consider John 1:1,2,14,17,18 "In the beginning was the Word . . . And the Word was God. . .the Same was in the beginning with God. And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us..the law was given by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man has seen God at anytime. The Only Begotten Son , Which is in the Bosom of the Father, He has declared Him." And. Philippians 2:6-7,"... Made Himself of no reputation and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men... He humbled Himself and became obedient unto Death" I expect this clarifies the position the Word took while on earth and why He said He could only speak the Words of the Father just as Moses prophesied He would.

Any set of new laws contrary to the NT reality as described by God Himself in scripture (reverting back to the very OT approach that God Himself said will be replaced, cant be from Him: He is not the author of confusion. Ezekiel (36) went further to describe God's intention in the NT thus,"26 A new heart will I give you and a new spirit will I put within you, and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you shall heed My ordinances and do them"

This is the desire and purpose of God in the NT as fulfilled by Christ once and for all.

malvisguy212:
nice job bro, God bless you.

Glory to God. God bless you too!

eshbeewanna:
"In the FIRST place Jesus is not like Moses, because, according to you - 'JESUS IS A GOD', but Moses is not God. "Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses! SECONDLY, according to you - 'JESUS DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD', but Mose s did not have to die for the sins of the world. "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses! THIRDLY, according to you - 'JESUS WENT TO HELL FOR THREE DAYS', but Moses did not have to go there. "Therefore Jesus is not like Moses!"

Here you have wrongly compared the Messiahship of Christ to the Prophethood of Moses. The emphasis of Moses in the prophecy is the role of the Word to be spoken hence follows Deut 18:20,"20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die."

Father and Mother
(1) "Moses had a father and a mother. Muhummed also had a father and a mother. But Jesus had only a mother, and no human father.

Miraculous Birth
(2) "Moses and Muhummed were born in the normal, natural course, i.e. the physical association of man and woman; but Jesus was created by a special miracle."Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses. And God says to Moses in the Book of Deuteronomy 18:18 "LIKE UNTO THEE" (Like You, Like Moses) and Muhummed is like Moses
Marriage Ties
(3) "Moses and Muhummed married and begat children, but Jesus remained a bachelor all his life."Therefore Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhummed is like Moses."

Jesus Rejected by his People

(3) "Moses and Muhummed were accepted as prophets by their people in their very lifetime. No doubt the Jews gave endless trouble to Moses and they murmured in the wilderness, but as a nation, they acknowledged that Moses was a Messenger of God sent to them. The Arabs too made Muhummed's life imposs ible. He suffered very badly at their hands. After 13 years of preaching in Mecca, he had to emigrate from the city of his birth. But before his demise, the Arab nation as a whole accepted him as the Messenger of Allah. But according to the Bible: 'He (Jesus) CAME UNTO HIS OWN, BUT HIS OWN RECEIVED HIM NOT.' (John 1:11). And even today, ofter two thousand years, his people- the Jews, as a whole, have rejeted him. : "THEREFORE JESUS IS NOT LIKE MOSES, BUT MUHUMMED IS LIKE MOSES."

"Other-Wordly" Kingdom
(5) "Moses and Muhummed were prophets as well as kings. A prophet means a man who receives Divine Revelation for the Guidance of Man and this Guidance he conveys to God's creatures as received without any addition or deletion. A king is a person who has the power of life and death over his people. It is immaterial whether the person wears a crown or not, or whether he was ever addressed as king or monarch: if the man has the prerogative of inflicting capital punishment - HE IS A KING. Moses possessed such a power. Do you remember the Israelite who was found picking up firewood on Sabbath Day , and Moses had him stoned to death? (Numbers- 15:13). There are other crimes also mentioned in the Bible for which capital punishment was inflicted on the Jews at the behest of Moses. Muhummed too, had the power of life and death over his people. There are instances in the Bible of persons who wer e given gift of prophecy only, but they were not in a position to implement their directives. Some of these holy men of God who were helpless in the face of stubborn rejection of their mesage, were the prophets lot, Jonah, Daniel, Ezra, and John the Baptist. They could only deliver the message, but could not enforce the Law. The Holy Prophet Jesus (Peace b.u.h) also belonged to this category. The Christian Gospel clearly confirms this: when Jesus was dragged before the Roman Governor, Pontius Pilate, Charged for sedition, Jesus made a convincing point in his defence to refute the false charg e: JESUS ANSWERED, "MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD': IF MY KINGDOM WERE OF THIS WORLD, THEN WOULD MY SERVANTS FIGHT, THAT I SHOULD NOT BE DELIVERED TO THE JEWS; BUT NOW IS MY KINGDOM NOT FROM HENCE"(John 18:36) This convinced Pilate (A Pagan) that though Jesus might not be in full possessio n of his mental faculty, he did not strike him as being a danger to his rule. Jesus claimed a spiritual Kingdom only; in other words he only claimed to be a Prophet. Therefore Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses."."

Here you add some embellishments that were not implied in the verse under consideration. Let's rather use what was the epilogue to Deuteronomy 34 :11-12
10 And there arose not a prophet like unto Moses, 11[b] in all the signs and the wonders, which the Lord sent him to do[/b] in the land of Egypt to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land, 12 and in all that mighty hand . . .which Moses shewed in the sight of all Israel". The emphasis to be considered as it concerns likeness is both in Word and Signs and wonders by the power of God, not the basically earthly ones you've referred to.

No New Laws
(6) "Moses and Muhummed brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Moses not only gave the Ten Commandments to the Israelites, but a very comprehensive ceremonial law for the guidance of his people. Muhummed comes to a people steeped in barbarism and ignorance.

Moses' laws were part of the whole package of the old covenant. Centuries before the coming of Christ God had already declared that the new covenant, Jeremiah 31:31-33 will see Him writing His laws in our hearts (through His Holy Spirit symbolically called the Finger of God).

This had been the desire of God right from the time of Moses but it was not yet due see Deuteronomy 5:29
"29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!" God's desire is a life expressed/obedience from the heart; not a strained, forced compliance with rules and the former was the goal of the New covenant ratified by the Blood of Christ.

"As regards Jesus, when the Jews felt suspicious of him that he might be an imposter with designs to pervert their teachings, Jesus took pains to assure them that he had not come with a new religion - no new laws and no new regulations. I quote his own words: 'THINK NOT THAT IAM COME TO DESTROY THE LAW, OR THE PROPHETS: IAM NOT COME TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFIL. FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, ONE JOT OR ONE TITLE SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED.'(Mathew 5:17-18). In other words he had not come with any new laws or regulation he came only to fulfil the old law. This what he gave the Jews to understand- unless he was speaking with the tongue in his cheek trying to bluff the Jews into accepting him as a man of God and by subterfuge trying to ram a new religion down their throats. No! This Messenger of God would never resort to such fo ul means to subvert the Religion of God. He himself fulfilled the laws. He observed the commandments of Moses, and he respected the Sabbath. At no time did a single Jew point a finger at him to say, 'why don't you fast' or 'why don't you wash your hands before you break bread',which charges they al wasy levied against his disciples, but never against Jesus. This is because as a good Jew he honoured the laws of the prophets who preceded him. In short, he had created no new religion and had brought no new law like Moses and Muhummed."Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses but Muhummed is like Moses."

Moses laws were not in a vacuum, it was part of a covenant. The New covenant entailed the writing of these laws in our heart and the living out of these in the power of the Holy Spirit within.
Ezekiel 36:27," 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

Words in the Mouth
"The prophecy proceeds further:'.......AND I WILL PUT MY WORDS INTO HIS MOUTH.......' What does it mean when it is said 'I will put my words in your mouth'?For example if I asked you toOpen Deuteronomy chapter 18, verse 18, at the beginning, and if I had asked you to read, and if you had read: would I be putting my words into your mouth?"Of course not "But, "If I were to teach you a language like Arabic about which you have no knowledge, and if I asked you to read or repeat after me what I utter i.e.:

"SAY: HE IS ALLAH THE ONE AND ONLY;
ALLAH, THE ETERNAL ABSOLUTE;
HE BEGETTETH NOT, NOR IS HE BEGOTTEN:
AND THERE IS NONE LIKE UNTO HIM.
(Holy Qur'an 112:1-4)( I read them in Arabic )

Would I not be putting these unheard words of a foreign tongue which you utter, into your mouth?"Of course yes. In an identical manner, the words of the Holy Qur'an, the Revelation vouchsafed by the Almighty God to Muhummed, were revealed.

History tells us that Muhummed was forty years of age. He was in a cave some three miles north of the City of Mecca. It was the 27th night of the Muslim month of Ramadaan. In the cave the Archangel Gabriel commands him in his mother tongue:'IQRA' which means READ! or PROCLAIM! or RECITE! Muhummed w as terrified and in his bewilderment replied that he was not NOT LEARNED! The angel commands him a second time with the same result. For the third time the angel continues.

Now Muhummed, grasps, that what was required of him was to repeat! to rehearse! And he repeats the words as they were put into his mouth:

"READ! IN THE NAME OF THE LORD AND CHERISHER, WHO CREATED-
CREATED MAN, FROM A (MERE) CLOT OF CONGEALED BLOOD:

READ! AND THY LORD IS MOST BOUNTIFUL,-
HE WHO TAUGHT (THE USE OF) THE PEN,

TAUGHT MAN THAT WHICH HE KNEW NOT".
(Holy Qur'an 96:1-5)

These are the first five verses which were revealed to Muhummed which now occupy the beginning of the 96th chapter of the Holy Qur'an.

Let's consider the matter objectively; Deuteronomy 18:17
"17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." The issue of likeness here relates not to the earthly issues of place of birth, parentage etc Rather, the highlighted texts show what will be the key deciding factor: God (not an angel) putting His Words in the Mouth of the Reference.

Now, Jeremiah illustrates what God meant by putting His words in a person's mouth see Jeremiah 1:9,"9 Then the Lord put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the Lord said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth". Now this did not mean Jeremiah was Moses reference. There were many other prophecies concerning Jesus which Jeremiah did not fulfil.Note the operation of the Hand of God also in Exodus 31:18 "And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God."

When Jesus came, these were His Words,
1. John 12:49,50
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

2.John 8:28
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
3. John 7:16
16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
4. John 3:34
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

In addition Moses went to receive the law in the full glare of all Israel (see Exodus 19:17-25) Jesus also received the Spirit in the full glare of the people after baptism (John 3:34, John 1:32,33) by Which He spoke the Words of God.

Besides we cannot but note the role of the Holy Spirit in the ministry of Moses (Numbers 11:25) and all other prophets in the Bible. Jesus had not just a measure of The Spirit's anointing but it was without measure John 3:34. Without the Spirit, there is no prophet.

eshbeewanna:
The expected Christ and the expected Prophet:
Again, in John 1:19-21 John was asked if he were the Messiah, Elijah, and then "The Prophet": John 1:21.  In John 7:40-44, Jesus was supposed to come from David's line, while the Prophet was NOT.  He was a foreigner.  So the awaited Messiah and the awaited "the Prophet" were clearly TWO DIFFERENT PERSONS, who are strangers to each others, and are not from the same bloodline.

Let us look at the text of verses of John 1:19-21 and John 7:40-44 in details to see the two different persons to come: the Messiah (Christ) and the Prophet:

  

John 1:19-21
John the Baptist Tells People About Jesus
19 Here is the ·truth John told [testimony John gave; witness of John; 1:6] when the ·leaders [Jewish leadership; L Jews; C John often uses the term “Jews” to refer to the religious leaders in opposition to Jesus, rather than to the Jewish people generally] in Jerusalem sent ·priests and Levites [C the religious authorities; priests oversaw temple worship; Levites were members of the tribe of Levi who assisted them; 1 Chr. 23:24–32] to ask him, “Who are you?”

20 John ·spoke freely [confessed] and did not ·refuse to answer [deny it]. He said, “I am not the ·Christ [Messiah].”
21 So they asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” [C Elijah, an OT prophet, was expected to come back before the Messiah; 1 Kin. 17—2 Kin. 2; Mal. 4:5–6.]

He answered, “No, I am not.”

“Are you the Prophet?” [C the Prophet like Moses predicted in Deut. 18:15–19] they asked.
He answered, “No.”

  
John 7:40-44
The People Argue About Jesus
40 When the people heard Jesus’ words, some of them said, “This man really is the Prophet [1:21; C the “prophet like Moses” of Deut. 18:15–18].”
41 Others said, “He is the ·Christ [Messiah].” Still others said, “The ·Christ [Messiah] will not come from Galilee.

42 The Scripture says that the ·Christ [Messiah] will come from David’s ·family [offspring; L seed; 2 Sam. 7:12–16; Ps. 89:3–4; Is. 9:7; 55:3] and from Bethlehem, the ·town [village] where David lived [Mic. 5:2].”
43 So ·the people did not agree with each other [L there was a division in the crowd] about Jesus.
44 Some of them wanted to ·arrest [seize] him, but no one was able to ·touch [L lay a hand on] him.

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Pls make no mistakes The Prophet prophesied by Moses and The Messiah spoken of by the prophets refers to the same person. Hear a Jew speak,"45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth,". Furthermore after His resurrection, Jesus told the disciples of,"Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me." These matters are clear enough. Even Jesus did not promise the coming of another prophet after Himself; rather He spoke of the Holy Ghost Luke 12:12, John 16:13-15.

Does the NT refute the Prophethood of Muhammad? [2]  A closer look at: Matthew 21:11, Mark 6:15, John 9:17, John 6:14, John 1:19-21, John 7:40-44, Acts 7.

He whose relevance would be reckoned with as regards the New Testament must be One who will walk in line with the specifics thereof as delineated in Jeremiah 31:31"33 but this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." I dont want to multiply quotes here but we all know Only One Person did so - Jesus Christ hence He spoke about, remission of sins as a result of the blood He shed.


  

2-  An Arabian Prophet was expected by the Jews of Arabia:

From some of the Muslim sources, see the following references:
  
"Bring forward the most learned among you before me."  When that man came forward, he and Muhammad spoke in private.  Finally Muhammad asked him, "Do you know that I am the Apostle of Allah?"  The rabbi answered, "By Allah! Yes, and the people know what I know.  Verily your attributes and qualities are clearly mentioned in the Torah, but they are jealous of you."  (History of Muhammad Ibn Sa'd, Volume I, Pages 188)
  
"...and he is the Prophet of these people; he is an Arab and the Jews are jealous of him wishing that he should have been an Israelite..."  (History of Muhammad Ibn Sa'd, Volume I, Pages 177)

They are still expecting the Messiah too! After the great tribulation they will be ready to receive Him at His Second coming.

'LIKE UNTO THEE' - 'Like You' 'Like Moses'. The Prophecy is much more than this single phrase which reads as follows : "I WILL RAISE THEM UP A PROPHET FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN LIKE UNTO THEE......." The emphasis is on the words- "From among their brethren." Moses and his people, the Jews, are here addressed as a racial entity, and as such their 'brethren' would undoubtedly be the arabs. You see, the Holy Bible s peaks of Abraham as the "Friend of God". Abraham had two wives - Sarah and Hagar. Hagar bore Abraham a son - HIS FIRST-BORN- '......And Abraham(11) called HIS SON'S name, which Hagar bare Ishmael.' (Genesis 16:15). 'And Abraham took Ishmael HIS SON......" (Genesis 17:23). 'And Ishmael HIS SON was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.'(Genesis 17:25). Up to the age of THIRTEEN Ishmael was the ONLY son and sed of Abraham, when the covenant was ratified between God and Abraham. God grants Abraham another son through Sarah, named Isaac, wh o was very much the junior to his brother Ishmael.

Arabs and Jews
If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham, then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. The children of Isaac are the Jews and the Children of Ishmael are the Arabs - so they are BRETHREN to one another. The Bible affirms, 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) SHALL DWELL IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.' (Genesis 16:12). 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) DIED IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.(Genesis 25:18). The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelites. In like manner Muhummed is from among the brethren of the Israeli tes beause he was a descendant of Ishamel the son of Abraham. This exactly as the prophecy has it- 'FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN'.(Deut.18:18). There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among the mselves', but from among their brethren. MUHUMMED THEREFORE WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN!

Note the following:
1. The Ammonites, Moabites, Edomites,Midianites, etc were also the brethren of the Israelites but at the threshold of nationhood, they became strangers primarily as they were not of the promise. The only 'waiver' they got was that God did not allow Israel to distress them see Deut. 2:9( 4 And command thou the people, saying, Ye are to pass through the coast of your brethren the children of Esau, which dwell in Seir; and they shall be afraid of you: take ye good heed unto yourselves therefore: 5 meddle not with them; for I will not give you of their land, no, not so much as a foot breadth; because I have given mount Seir unto Esau for a possession. 6 Ye shall buy meat of them for money, that ye may eat; and ye shall also buy water of them for money, that ye may drink. 7 For the Lord thy God hath blessed thee in all the works of thy hand: he knoweth thy walking through this great wilderness: these forty years the Lord thy God hath been with thee; thou hast lacked nothing. 8 And when we passed by from our brethren the children of Esau, which dwelt in Seir, through the way of the plain from Elath, and from Ezion-gaber, we turned and passed by the way of the wilderness of Moab. 9 And the Lord said unto me, Distress not the Moabites, neither contend with them in battle: for I will not give thee of their land for a possession; because I have given Ar unto the children of Lot for a possession.)

God is not the author of confusion. When it came to specific offices (those set apart by an anointing eg prophet or king) the brethren referred to was strictly a fellow Israelite see Deuteronomy 17:15,"15 thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the Lord thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother." Hence, when you run through the history of Israel, not once did a Moabite, Edomite, Ammonite etc become king or prophet.

That is why God said to send away Hagar and Ishmael namely for the fact that Isaac was the promised heir while Ishmael was more like the result of Abraham's error (Gen. 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called. 13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed." Hagar's consolation was just that her son will become a nation just like others born at that time too. It means if Abraham had rejected Sarah's carnal suggestion , all these issues wont even come up.

I recently noticed this in the NL religion section:
Religion: Share your faith and belief in God or higher powers here.

But most topics contradict this! It's either a topic is bashing another's beliefs or quoting from the Book or books of others for everything but sharing of beliefs. Others create topics that are religious news but have nothing to do with sharing of faith. Though there are some that have kept to the original purpose. The heading therefore makes it strange that we have those who don't believe in God being very active! I suggest we have another section for religious apologism purposes because as far as I can see, the religion section might have been derailed.

leonard4real:
If your sister was among those girls will u keep d baby! U jst talking bullshit

Noted, with thanks.

okikiosibodu:
All this is very easy to say, bt u cnt giv all these a tot if u r d one involved, or someone close to u

I acknowledge that the trauma from the whole issue will be much on the women involved but nos 3 & 4 are possibilities that they face should they opt for an abortion. Remember that they are already malnourished and an abortion may occasion loss of blood. Let's say 50% opt for abortion, that will be 107 women on queue and you know what this means: shoddy and hasty job that places the women at risk. Point 3 shows that opting for abortion is similar to an attempted suicide (it's a 50/50 chance of either surviving or dying).

timilehing:
No matter how trained a lion cub is, their passion for blood can never be hidden. A bastard will always be a bastard

That's true for animals who're guided by instincts alone. Man is different.

emperorceaser:
Assuming u are a father to one of the girls
Will all this that you have written prevail...
Jus asking

Yes. I've been there in a way.(though not by BH)

It's best to keep the pregnancy for the following reasons:
1. The unborn child is completely innocent and , with good training, will not take after its father;
2. Abortion is tantamount to murder. The world will cry out if a criminal's 7 months old baby is taken to be executed with him in the firing squad;calling for the murder of the unborn babies because of their fathers' sin should also be denounced .
3. The abortion could result in the death of the mother; what then?
4. The abortion could lead to serious health complications/infertility for the mother; what then?
5. The child,if allowed to live, may become the consolation for its mother, rising above a dark background, refusing to be limited/defined by same; why not?

I wish op will strongly consider John 1:18 he quoted,"
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

and Daniel 7: 9-13,
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him... 13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

The understanding of a Mystery comes by revelation op.Ephesians 3:3," how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery;" Not a recourse to internet and un-inspired reasonings of men that seem to confirm your conclusion.