₦airaland Forum

DoctorAlien:
But according to you, Jesus was describing what happens at death, right?

Before His resurrection.

Jozzy4:
we are on a public forum, and you want me to disgrace you more. humility is a virtue.

Abyss is completely different from sheol.

the only equivalent to Sheol in greek is Hades. (psalm 16:10, Act 2:27)

we are talking of English translation of the word.

Hades is not Abyss , and vice versa.

Abyss denotes not just a pit but a Bottomless pit , Sheol never means bottomless pit.

lol , try harder

Abyss = Bottomless! Pit has another word whence it was translated and Strong's establishes that Pit is:


Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
grave, hell, pit
Or shol {sheh-ole'}; from sha'al; Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates -- grave, hell, pit
biblehub.com

dorox:
Jesus made it quite clear that anyone who died believing in Him will not remain dead forever. He likened it to the temporary unconciousness we have when we fall asleep, because He alone has power over death.

He said plainly ,"will never die" let's not modify it.

DoctorAlien:
So will the righteous and the wicked be communicating in Heaven?

Abraham's bosom is not heaven.

DoctorAlien:
What is he saying? The resurrection will be at the last day according to the Bible.
Show us the place where the Bible says the saints will be transferred from Abraham's bosom to another place!

Matthew 27:52 read and learn

Jozzy4:
not just an adjective , the pit is the pit of the abyss . not sheol
pit of the Abyss" Rev 9:1
i guess u think the word translated pit in the verse is Sheol .
more lies exposed .

What is the abyss? The pit is one of the synonyms for Sheol!
http://biblehub.com/strongs/hebrew/7585.htm abyss means bottomless, an adjective describing the pit!

dorox:
Let us read the account of Lazarus death and resurrection in John 11:23-25.

How can one be immortal without Jesus?

Consider that verse 26 and tell me if that refers to physical death bearing in mind that MANY believers, even the apostles died!

DoctorAlien:
Is Rev. 20 not the final judgment? Is it the first judgment? If it is not the final judgment, which one is?

I meant the part in Revelations 20 where fire will destroy those that try to fight against the camp of the saints, after which follows the Judgement found in Verse 11-15

Jozzy4:
greek abyss is different from hebrew sheol.

your case is a typical example of confusion

Too bad, abyss is an adjective describing the pit!!!
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/9-1.htm

DoctorAlien:
You did not answer my question.

What does Abraham's bosom signify?

Also, does the Bible indicate that the righteous will be transferred from Abraham's bosom to a "final destination"?

Those who were martyred in Revelations 6 were not found in Abraham's bosom but in Heaven. The Innumerable company of those redeemed in Revelations 7 were found at the Throne, not Abraham's bosom. Now Bible speaks of the resurrection of saints after Christ resurrected, did they just resurrect and went back to the grave? NO!

DoctorAlien:
But according to you, Jesus was describing the fate of man at death, right?

That discourse preceded His death and resurrection!

goodnews201668:
Stop deceiving yourself there the Bible talks about being resurrected as a spirit, if we are spirits whats the essence of resurrecting people to become spirits again?

Interesting, resurrected as spirits!

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1 Corinth 15:51-54

So those who dont sleep will be changed to spirit? Vs 53 shows the change, mortal flesh puts on immortality. NOBODY will be changed to spirit.

DoctorAlien:
You did not answer the question I asked you!

Meanwhile, What then does Abraham's bosom signify in Jesus' parable?

Was Lazarus transferred from Abraham's bosom to a "final destination" in the story?

That story preceded the resurrection of Christ. In Revelations we read of people in Heaven where God's Throne is and where the River of Life etc is.

Jozzy4:
another lie

Sheol never means bottomless pit.

its translated pit, grave. never Bottomless pit

Pit is what? And where is the place mentioned in Revelations 9:1,2?

DoctorAlien:
"Upon the wicked He shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest..." Psalm 11:6

Prove that this is relevant to the subject matter of final judgement. And what I rather see here is the event in Revelation 20 then note that there, after the raining, the devil is still cast into the Lake of Fire!!!

DoctorAlien:
If the story of Lazarus was talking about the fate of man at death, is Abraham's bosom the destination of the righteous?

Before the resurrection of Christ.

goodnews201668:
Una don change am again, what of the hellfire or the rich man?
Another hellfire still dey?

Did you not read that Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire? Realise that Hell/Sheol has the bottomless pit (Revelations 9:1,2) as a part.

DoctorAlien:
If the story of Lazarus was talking about the righteous and the wicked and their fate at death, and Lazarus is supposedly the righteous man, while the rich man is the wicked:

What in the story shows that Lazarus was righteous? Was he righteous by merely sitting at the rich man's gate everyday?

Why then did the rich man bid Abraham send Lazarus to warn his brothers? ANd even said if that happens his brothers will REPENT!!!
Luke 16:30
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

DoctorAlien:
Please, shows us a Bible passage that says the wicked will be alive forever burning.

10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Revelations 14:10,11

goodnews201668:
My brother that book of mark, Jesus was refering to Gehenna.
You don start again.
Read that place very well, before starting the same yesterday's assertions of yours all over again.

That the fire is not quenched is repeated in Revelation 14:10,11 so is that place also Gehenna?

10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Revelation 14:10,11

DoctorAlien:
Please, who is Ezekiel 28:13-18 talking about if not Satan?

Was the king of Tyrus in Eden? Or was he GOD's covering cherub?

Ezekiel 28:2
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God;

While the body of the message may have a dual application, error starts when we choose to ignore one of the focus.

dorox:
You have two servants, one of them is wise and the other is foolish, and you gave them some considerable amount of money as gift out of the kindness of your heart, they did not earn it.
The wise servant said to himself on receiving the money,"my master is very kind, I shall use this money to learn a trade so that I can be of better service to him. And if there comes a day when he no longer needs my service, I will at least have a trade to earn a living. " But the foolish servant said to himself," I have worked very hard indeed, I am sure that this gift is the excess profit from my labour that he has been withholding from me, perhaps I should ask him if he included the interest." Saying that, he went off to squander it on booze and prostitutes.
Now if you having observed both servants decides to elevate the wise one to a position of responsibility far greater than he ever imagined possible, that is your prerogative isn't it? But the worst you can do to the foolish slave is to sack him for his foolishness and take what is left of the gift you gave him. Torturing him for eternity for squandering a gift does not sound fair, would you not agree?

Your analogy is not very applicable to the topic at hand. We dont get elevated for what we have done but what we have received (of course having received it there will be evidences). If A receives it and B fails to, what then? Already we know hell was made for the devil and his angels, and we have offered to us that which will make us escape seeing there is no third place, if we fail to receive and end up there who do we blame?

DoctorAlien:
Does the Psalmist say the wicked will be alive burning forever?

Not just one passage forms the basis of a teaching, but the relevant passages from the Scriptures, on the topic.

goodnews201668:
You and worm again, where did you see worm?
Worm is in Gehenna not in hell.
Stop mixing things up.
So you can understand the Bible!

Take a deep breath and read below:


And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark9:47,48

The story of Lazarus shows where Christ had in mind! Besides, since Jesus use of parables was to reveal things hid from the foundation of the world(has NOTHING to do with the pharisees and the unfortunate jews), I dont see what you are still trying to prove.

DoctorAlien:
"The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget GOD" Psalm 9:17.

Definitely, the wicked will be turned into hell. GOD will rain fire and brimstone upon them.

But your folks claim the fire is figurative?! Besides, is the Lake of Fire suddenly become the Rain of Fire? Can you establish this newfangled claim of yours with a Bible verse relevant to the subject matter?

But does this verse say "immediately after their death?"

Lazarus story clears your doubts.

DoctorAlien:
Who is talking about worm? Worm is not mentioned in Psalm 37:9,10. The wicked will BE NO MORE!

Where is this mysterious place you said they are going?

Yes, that is why we talk of examining the whole Scripture not just fleeing with a portion that appears to support an error even if our private interpretation contradicts other passages on the same topic!

DoctorAlien:
Will eternity for righteous people be such that the wicked (supposedly also alive forever) will be within earshot disturbing their communion with GOD with their constant cries and be them begging for water?

Abraham's bosom is not the final abode of the righteous, that is what Reveations 19,21,22 reveals! So this point is irrelevant.

Jozzy4:
you are confuse man, the rich MAN not the rich ghost or rich immaterial soul . RIch MAN , MAN, MAN , MAN
chai , religion na brainwashing o

Jesus descriptions are human , clear . not the nonsense u are reading into it

Show that nonsense being read into it. Besides, who mentioned ghost?Obviously you have a penchant for accusing others for what you are guilty of!

goodnews201668:
J

Those are parable not real event.
According to John 3:13 Jesus says no man has ascended to heaven except him that came down from heaven.
So neither Lazarus nor Abraham was in heaven when Jesus narrated the story.

ANd who said Abraham's bosom was Heaven?

If jesus story were to be taken literal it means someone in hellfire can see someone in heaven.
It also means someone in hellfire can as well talk to someone in heaven.

Abraham's bosom is NOT Heaven!

Jessicha:
"
All go to the same place.All came from the dust and all return to the dust. " Ecc 3:20.

Even Job ehn , knows he will go to the pit or sheol. Job 17:16 , is he a wicked person ?




like psalm 9:17, Job even prayed to go to " hell " Douay rheims bible (sheol) - job 14:13 .

The context in Psalm 9:17 obviously shows (as Strong's concordance ) that Sheol here is more than the grave but the bottomless pit.

dorox:
Of what purpose is the resurrection if at death we never truly die but just shed our mortal bodies?

At resurrection, we are raised with an incorruptible, immortal body. See 1 Corinth 15 and 1 Thess 4.

dorox:
Of what purpose is the resurrection if at death we never truly die but just shed our mortal bodies?

At resurrection, we are raised with an incorruptible, immortal body.

Jozzy4:
the life in discussion is the conscious existence of ALL living things.

read the Op, life = being Alive . thats the subject of discussion. we aim to know what is the exact opposite of life .

Thanks for the clarification.

Which Life are you referring to? Is it the conscious existence of ALL living things or that we receive from Jesus:

31 but these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 20:31

Before you answer, remember that the Bible says that sinners are:
... dead in trespasses and sins;Ephesians 2:1