₦airaland Forum

DoctorAlien:
Was the soul ever mentioned in that text?

Somebody can be in the spirit and caught up by GOD. See Rev. 1:10.

But that does not in anyways support your claim of the immortality of the soul.

DoctorAlien:
Are you trying to say Adam was alive before GOD breathed into his nostrils the "breath of life"?(Gen. 2:7)

DoctorAlien:
Christ, through the Holy Spirit in Noah preached to and pleaded with men when Noah was building the ark. Note the bolded part in the text above. The preaching happened during the building of the ark. It does not in any way imply that those souls are still alive today.

Also, the word "now" as bolded above does not appear in the King James Version. It only appears in the NASB and the NAS1977 versions. All these versions were translated from the KJV.

KJV reads: "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" 1 Pet. 3:19.

The spirits were in the prison of sin, not in a physical prison.

DoctorAlien:
Does this in any way support the claim that the soul is a separate, immortal entity?

CANTICLES:
objection! the hebrew word NEPHESH /soul " appeared in that passage NOT body .

again, Dead Soul .

a lie will àlways lead to further lie, can you support your claim that Adam was alive and breathing before God breath life into his Nostrils with scripture ?

DoctorAlien:
Do you not believe in the resurrection of the wicked unto their second and final death? The Bible clearly teaches that the wicked will be raise again (after the millenium) to their total and complete annihilation. See Rev. 20:5

CANTICLES:
Scholar8200:

Choosing one out of a number of synonyms is questionable! Especially when the view given by such choice clearly contradicts the Whole Picture as given by the Word. Besides, when will this destruction take place since the devil is still very active today.
CANTICLES:
do you now admit Heb 2:14 prove Satan will be destroyed ? thats the point

only Jesus the Lord of lords and King of kings is given immortality among the[b] host of spirit angelic beings { 1 tim 3:16 } therefore they can die , they are not immortal[/b] , infact Satan will be brought to nothing.

SCH:
Explain this in the light of your claim:
Then these [unbelieving people] will go away into eternal (unending) punishment, but those who are righteous and in right standing with God [will go, by His remarkable grace] into eternal (unending) life.”
Matthew 25:46

CAN:
the greek word KOLASIn in this verse denotes " cutting off " , so its very clear that the wicked will be cut off from life , while the righteous receive everlasting life .

SCH:
The false prophet is not the antichrist, the beast is. The Lake of Fire is literally:

CAN:
oga, if the beast SYMBOLIZE the antichrist , then how can a symbolic beast be thrown into a literal Lake of fire ?

SCH:
8 But as for the cowards and unbelieving and abominable [who are devoid of character and personal integrity and practice or tolerate immorality], and murderers, and sorcerers [with intoxicating drugs], and idolaters and occultists [who practice and teach false religions], and all the liars [who knowingly deceive and twist truth], their part will be in the lake that blazes with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:8

CAN
but the verse said , which is the second DEATH. destruction.

dont forget that the GRAVE will also be casted into this same Lake of fire ? those in Rev 21:8 have the same end with Grave , does it mean Grave will be burned forever too ?

SCH:
Explain that passage in Matthew 25:46 at least that one is not in Revelations and it says the same thing as regards a continual state of torment! Contrary to your rather aloof stance of annihilation!

CAN:
already explained!

the point is clear, its torment is explained as Destruction

are death and Grave personalities too, so what happen to them in the Lake of fire ?

SCH:
If we will be true to the passage in question, you wont need to ask this. Already I said there was a great gulf fixed between both places. Besides, http://biblehub.com/strongs/greek/2859.htm shows that the word bosom has a synonym and usage that supports place. Reason! How would angels carry a man to another man's chest!!! The place can be rendered Abraham's bay just as we have a place in the Temple then called Solomon's porch.
CAN:
good you are now reasoning , if u take it literal it means Lazarus was carried to the chest of Abraham himself . @ Gen 16:5 , its clear that the bossom of Abraham is the bossom of the man Abraham .

DoctorAlien:
Does the Bible teach that the soul is an entity separate from the body?

"And the LORD GOD formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul"

When GOD finished creating man, he was just a structure of dust. The soul had not come into existence. Then GOD breathed into his nostrils, and man became a living soul. Therefore, the body plus the breath of life is the soul.

Note also that the Bible says man "became" a living soul. It did not say man "had" a living soul.

Therefore, the teaching that the soul is a separate entity in man is unbiblical.

DoctorAlien:
Are you saying the fire affected only the buildings and trees in the city, but did not affect the men?

DoctorAlien:
The devil is a spirit, and so cannot die physical death. However, the Bible teaches that GOD will destroy him together with sinners at the end.

Scholar8200:
47 If your eye causes you to stumble and sin, throw it out [that is, remove yourself from the source of temptation]! It would be better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where their worm [that feeds on the dead] does not die, and the fire is not put out.
Mark 9:47,48
Isn't it funny, the man is annihilated but his worms are not!!! Sir, both will live through it!

DoctorAlien:
Sodom and Gomorrah burned with eternal fire. Are they still burning today?

Check 2 Pet. 2:6. The eternal fire that will burn the wicked is a fire that will not be put out till it completes its work of total and complete annihilation of sin, sinners and the devil.

DoctorAlien:
"...the soul that sinneth shall die" Ezek. 18:4.

DoctorAlien:
Let us allow the Bible explain what example it is talking about: "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly." 2 Pet. 2:6

It is now clear what the fate of sinners will be. The eternal fire which brought Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes is the fire that will exterminate sinners at the end.

That in no way supports the theory of the immortality of the soul.

DoctorAlien:
The "Continual state of torment" doctrine is completely unbiblical. The word "eternal" as Jesus uses it there means that the punishment which sinners will suffer will be their final, total and complete end. (See Jude 7). It doesn't mean that sinners will be alive forever in hell burning.

Meanwhile, if sinners will be in hell be alive forever in hell burning, doesn't that negate the Bible teaching that only the righteous ones will live forever? If sinners are alive forever burning, that means they have eternal life too, just that they spend theirs in a place different from where the righteous people spend theirs. But the Bible is clear that only the righteous ones will live forever with GOD.

So, the "unending torment" doctrine is totally unbiblical.

DoctorAlien:
Using this to support your claim of the immortality of the soul is wrong! Now, consider this verse: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" Jude 7.

It is quite obvious that Sodom is not still burning today. The Dead Sea rolls over the place where those ancient cities once stood. Yet the Bible says that Sodom burned with an "eternal" fire. What does that mean?

Eternal fire, as applied to Sodom above, refers to a fire that cannot be quenched till it has accomplished it's purpose of complete destruction.

dorox:
The op is about whether hell assuming it exist is morally right or wrong. So if you believe sinners are going to hell explain why it doesn't make God a wicked monster.

CANTICLES:
" therefore, since the young children are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly shared in the same things , so that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil " Heb 2:14

scripture clearly showed , Satan will be brought to nothing, reduced to non existence .

Heb 2:14 tells u satans end is destruction, he will be brought to nothing just as death the last enemy will be brought to nothing ' 1cor 15:26

are you saying, The BEAST and false prophet SYMBOLIZE the Antichrist ?

then, what does the lake of fire to which they are thrown represents ?

the Lake of fire symbolize second death! anything said to be in the lake of fire will be no more

Rev 20:14 said death is thrown into the lake of fire ? does it mean death ( a condition of been dead) will be literally burning forever ? not at all

scripture explains it means " Death will be no more" Rev 21:4

not literal torment .

"they will stand at a distance because of their fear of her [ babylon the great] TORment and say: Too bad, too bad, you great city, Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgement has arrived! " - Revelation 18:10 here babylon the great is said to experience TORMENT , yet its symbolic of her Destruction to non existence, how do we know ?

" And a strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: " Thus with a swift pitch wikl Babylon the great city be hurled down, ,AND SHE WILL NEVER BE FOUND AGAIN " Rev18:21

firstly , how can Abaraham bossom be a place if u insist the parable is literal ?

my bossom is my chest position literally, why change the meaning of bossom to mean a PLACE ?

CANTICLES:
there is a Living soul .. nephesh , that breathes

nd there is a DEAD soul .. scripture rightly call a corpse a "dead soul" Numbers 6:6. dead soul, plain and simple . nothing imortal here

Medicis:
Matt 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those
who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. This verse shows that the body can be killed and the soul can still exist separately.

Scholar8200:
Per ypur Op, pls show me where Jesus was referring when He said:
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 5:45,46

abdulmalik1988:
You know, no one will believe that the holy ghost comes to disunite Christians. His message is suppose to be straightforward and same to all Christians denominations, why is he giving different teachings, has he forgotten his mission?
Mind you sirs and MA's I don't debate, I dialogue.

abdulmalik1988:
According to your John 14: 26, if the holy spirit is how you christians view him, since his coming and going non of you has been able to provide one info, he gives you about things to come. Has he? If so, pls ask him what he tells a catholic Bishop, if you are protester, then the Bishop may give you exact answer to what he (holy ghost) tells you the protester.

abdulmalik1988:
To add: Help me check for the reason, while Holy ghost gives different information to different Christian domination about things to come, and about guidance.

abdulmalik1988:
Marriage: Jesus remain Bachelor all his life, but Moses and Muhammad (p) got married and bore children. Muhammad is like Moses, Jesus is not like Moses, true or false? Let me leave you with these to ponder if you wish; next to come.

Scholar8200:
Did Moses bid them lookout for these mundanes? What makes a prophet? marriage?

abdulmalik1988:
Miraculous Birth: Jesus was created by God in a special way, Moses was created in the normal way, so was Muhammad (p) created in the normal way: a male and female intercourse. There Jesus is not like Moses but Muhammad is like Moses, true or false?

abdulmalik1988:
It is quite unfortunate that you will not be able to provide a single similarity between the miracle of Jesus, and Moses; because the likeness in the first place is not based on miracle, but lifestyle and leadership. Just like I said, you need to understand your Bible, that is if you read it.
Here is the similarity:
Mother and Father: Moses had human mother and human Father, but Jesus had only human mother but no human biological Father, Muhammad had human mother and human Father. Therefore, Jesus is not like Moses, but Muhammad is like Moses. True or False?

CANTICLES:
Scholar8200:
Now the Bible says the devil and his angels will be tormented in the lake of fire for ever and the same has been active since the time of Genesis till now; does that mean the devil has Eternal life? Let someone answer!

CANTICLES:
If the lake of fire is a symbol of destruction, why does the Bible say that in it the Devil, the wild beast, and the false prophet “will be tormented day and night forever and ever”? ( Revelation 20:10) Consider four reasons why this torment does not refer to literal torture:

1. For the Devil to be tortured eternally, he would have to be kept alive forever. However, the Bible says that he will be brought to nothing, or put out of existence.
Hebrews 2:14 .

2. Everlasting life is a gift from God, not a punishment.— Romans 6:23 .

3. The wild beast and the false prophet are symbols and cannot experience literal torture.

4. The context of the Bible indicates that the torment of the Devil is everlasting restraint or destruction.
The word used for “torment” in the Bible can also mean “a condition of restraint.” For example, the Greek word for “tormentors” used at Matthew 18:34 is rendered as “jailers” in many translations, showing the connection between the words “torment” and “restraint.”

Likewise, the parallel accounts at Matthew 8:29 and Luke 8:30, 31 equate “torment” with “the abyss,” a figurative place of complete inactivity or death. ( Romans 10:7; Revelation 20:1, 3 ) In fact, several times the book of Revelation uses the word “torment” in a symbolic sense.— Revelation 9:5; 11:10; 18:7, 10

Scholar:
And since there are that claim that the story of Lazarus was just a symbol, let someone soundly exegesize that symbol and its meaning (backed by parallel scriptures vis a vis similar ones eg Matthew 25) once and for all.
CANTICLES:
The Jerusalem Bible, in a footnote, acknowledges that it is a “parable in story form without reference to any historical personage.”

If taken literally, it would mean that those enjoying divine favor could all fit at the bosom of one man, Abraham; that the water on one’s fingertip would not be evaporated by the fire of Hades; that a mere drop of water would bring relief to one suffering there. Does that sound reasonable to you? If it were literal, it would conflict with other parts of the Bible. If the Bible were thus contradictory, would a lover of truth use it as a basis for his faith? But the Bible does not contradict itself.

What does the parable mean? The “rich man” represented the Pharisees. (See verse 14) The beggar Lazarus represented the common Jewish people who were despised by the Pharisees but who repented and became followers of Jesus. (See Luke 18:11, john 7:49, matthew 21:31,32) Their deaths were also symbolic, representing a change in circumstances. Thus, the formerly despised ones came into a position of divine favor, and the formerly seemingly favored ones were rejected by God, while being tormented by the judgment messages delivered by the ones whom they had despised.— . Act 5:33; 7:54

MizJanet:
to help him reason and use his brain .

why are u not cutting off your hands and feet as Said in that chapter ? but WHY ?


why is it nobodys hand and feet has disappeared to hell in their coffin as stated in the chapter u quote ?

again, that beast u talked about , does it exist ?

Scholar8200:
what's the point asking question from a brainwashed fanatic? Seek answers from the level-headed folks.

CANTICLES:
and the man is the soul

" the Man Became a living Soul " Gen 2:7, its the man that became a soul .

abdulmalik1988:
Despite your evidences are illogical and confusing to yourselves, I will still find the patience to educate you more about your Bible; which you understand not. In the first place, there is no where it is written in the Bible that you need holy ghost to understand it. God is not the author of confusion ( 1Cor14:33)

. The words of Jesus, and God in the Bible are always clear and simple. It is the verses written by those unknown authors and other humans in the Bible that come with confusion.

MizJanet:


another brainwashed fanatic, why is it that you xtians are not cutting off your hands and feet as indicated in the chapter above ? why ?

meanwhile, if this is true.. tell me why nobody has disapeared to hell with Their Two hands and feet as indicated in that chapter?




that beast, does it exist ?