₦airaland Forum

promise101:
It won't look stupid if you can answer this questions.

Considering all you have written; are you sinless perfect? Hopefully, NO!
Then what is the difference between you and a woman that commits adultery? NOTHING, but just PRETENDS!!!

You are here, joking with the finished work of christ!

Bro, you appear passionate about this but why not let's focus on the message?

God can forgiven any sin but cannot forgive divorce? What a lie!

God will forgive when there is true repentance and restitution. A divorcee that remarries and repents cannot retain the 'new' spouse, that will be insincere.

Everytime, you people keep on saying "God hates divorce". Of course, he does! And as well he hates those your little faults like anger. And the way he hates anger is the same way he hates divorce. Out of the self righteous, judgemental, pharisee spirit in you, you will want to defend your self that ANGER IS NOT A SIN, because the bible says "...be angry but let not your anger...."

Here you are judging someone you have never met!

But the spirit of HYPOCRITICAL sinless perfection in you will not like you to see verses like, Col 3:8;"8 But now ye also put off all these; ANGER, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth"


If anger is not a sin, why were we asked to put them away?

Relax bro! Pls have you met the op in person before or you assume he has a problem with anger?

My friend though the person has been termed an adulterer by the scriptures, she is forgiven. Divorce is not an UNFORGIVABLE SINS, as you are trying to paint it. Jesus never made a certainty on what an unforgivable sin is, so stop condemning people.

THE REAL CHARACTER OF PHARISEE CHRISTIANS, IS THAT THEY GRADE SIN!!!!

Without knowing that GOD SEES DIVORCE, HOMOSEXUALITY, TERRORISM, THE SAME WAY HE SEES HYPOCRISY, ANGER, LIE, SLIGHTEST FORM OF DISOBEDIENCE.

Indeed you are correct! Good news is that His Grace can make us free from them all.

So knowing that you are NEVER sinless perfect, HE SEES YOU THE SAME WAY HE SEES THEM.


I am not supporting divorce, but you shouldn't use that to condemn divorcees.

You see, the op was trying to address an issue. Let's focus thereon.

Because, you yourself are still guilty of not being sinless perfect!

Yet, YOU WANT TO PROVE SOMEONE GUILTY WITH YOUR OWN GUILT, PRETENDING AS A SINLESS PERFECTION PERFECT.

Where did the op do this?

Will you go to hell because you never sinned or divorced? NO! Because what makes you to be seen as a sinner before God is because of what adam did. Rom 5:12.

I like this. And what makes you righteous is what Jesus did! And just as a sinner had to sin because that is who he is (partaker of the fallen nature); a righteous person will walk in newness/holiness of life because that is what he is(a partaker of the Divine Nature)

If it would take sinless perfection BY RIGHT LIVING to make heaven, then, don't be surprise to see YOURSELF and your church pastor at the front sit of hell.


And you are even sounding like "grace+law=eternal life" preachers, who go about preaching righteousness by works, and SUBJECTING PEOPLE TO CURSE.

Can you expatiate on the highlighted.

The ONLY righteousness that can take you to heaven is righteousness of God(himself) by FAITH, which ONLY COME FROM believing in christ!

Phil 3:9;"and may be found in Him [BELIEVING AND RELYING ON HIM], NOT HAVING any righteousness OF MY OWN(self righteousness) derived from [MY OBEDIENCE TO] the Law(right living) and its rituals, but [possessing] that [GENUINE RIGHTEOUSNESS] which comes THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST, the righteousness which comes FROM GOD on the BASIS OF FAITH" (AMP)


You have the GENUINE righteousness when you believe in christ alone. It comes on the BASIS OF FAITH alone.

Amen!!! And when this Light shines into our darkened hearts, we will be enabled to,"... awake to righteousness and sin not...1 Corinth 15:34 But if we say we have the Light and walk in darkness, we lie.

But if you rely on YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS(right living- works of the law) as a means of being righteous BEFORE GOD, you will be ACCURSED BY GOD.

GALATIAN 3vs 10 in many versions.


"Anyone who tries to please God by obeying the Law (right living) is under a curse. The Scriptures say, “Everyone who doesn’t obey everything in the Law is under a curse.”(CEV)

"But people who depend on following the law(right
living) to make them right are under a curse. As the
Scriptures say, “They must do everything that is
written in the law. If they do not always obey, they
are under a curse.”(ERV)

"·But [L For] those who depend on following [L the
works of] the law to make them right(right living)
are under a curse, because the Scriptures say,
“·Anyone [All; Everyone] will be cursed who does
not ·always obey what [keep doing everything that]
is written in the Book of the Law [Deut:27:26].” (EXB)

"Everyone, however, who is involved in trying to
keep the Law’s demands(right living) falls under a
curse, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does
not continue in all things which are written in the
book of the Law, to do them."(PHILLIPS)

"All those who expect the Law to save them(right
living) from the punishment of sin will be punished.
Because it is written, “Everyone who does not keep
on doing all the things written in the Book of the
Law will be punished.”(NLV)

"A curse is on all people who are trying to become
good by obeying the law(right living). The holy
writings say, `Everyone is cursed who does not
always obey everything that is written in the book of the law and do it.'(WE)



You better bear in mind that if you are relying on your right living(works of the law) as a means of your righteousness before God, then, YOU ARE ALREADY ACCURSED!


So, you better join the divorcees you are convicting in PERPARING your way to hell!

The Law justifies NO ONE before God. Through Jesus Christ we are reconciled to God; We are grafted into the True Vine and the Fruits He expects must be manifest in our lives!! Without these Fruits, we need to examine ourselves if we truly are in the faith.

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 8. - And here (in the case of the Levitical priesthood) men that die (literally, dying men) receive tithes; but there (in the case of Melchizedek) one of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. The difference here noted is between a succession of mortal priests and one perpetually living, who never loses his personal claim, which is inherent, in himself. But how so of Melchizedek? For it is to him, and not to Christ the Antitype, that the words evidently apply. Is it at length implied that he was more than mortal man? No, if only for this reason; that the witness appealed to (μαρτυρούμενος) must be that of Scripture, which nowhere bears such witness of the historical Melchizedek. The words, μαρτυρούμενος ὅτε ζῇ, are, in fact, only a resumption of what was said in ver. 3: "having neither beginning of days nor end of life;" and hear the same meaning; viz. (as above explained) that he passes before our view in Genesis with no mention of either death, birth, or ancestry, and thus presented the ideal of "a priest for ever" to the inspired psalmist. The witness referred to is that of the record in Genesis, viewed in the light of the idea of the psalm.
biblehub.com

themall:
Does this mean Christians are taking Christians to law courts? Or maybe this is different.

Well, CCC would not want to take laws into her hands hence a court case was filed; DL would not want to disregard the court summons(thus disobeying the command to honour the king) hence they had to appear in court.

Pls who said money was the root of all evil.

cocoduck:
you are a story teller, your kumuyi is a their trying to cover his tracks and he is using people like you, who lack thinking capacity. You hate JWs but we will never hate you in return, okay? but haters gonn' hate potatoes gonn' potate

ok

For the records, Pastor W.F.Kumuyi got born again in 1964 at the Apostolic Faith and was with them and S.U. till the Bible study (circ 1973) started and later sunday services! That claim of him being a JW is in the same pattern as with the JW teachings.

dorox:
I am using the fact that God said that He is love, that is why I am finding it difficult to reconcile the act of torturing souls for eternity with one who is love.

But we cannot define love for God can we? Besides, God is a God of Justice! And the penitentiary prepared for the rebellious one is the Eternal torment in Fire, if we choose to be rebellious, toeing the part of the one who hell was made for, what justice will there be in mitigating the judgement (for one) for a crime for which two criminals are guilty of?

Now, don't get me wrong, love does not deny responsibility nor does it condone wrongdoing or let the guilty walk free. What is does is to give us a path to salvation as long as we are alive.

Indeed! Now if I turn away the neck from that, who is to blame?

Since there is no pathway to redemption for the souls in hell, can you tell me the purpose of keeping those souls there in never ending torment?

There was a pathway which they shunned when they could have being saved! Being in hell is more then like a consequence of the choice they made; and since God is Eternal an He has said both sides are Eternal, it is just Who He is and how He has made us!

Jozzy4:
noise.

is the righteousness of 80 years enough to make a man deserve heaven ? answer this , then we will ask why a sin of the same 80 years is now enough to make a man deserver hellfire ?

are you dorox? If no, then your post,I'm afraid, is the real noise (unwanted sound or post)

Now dorox, you talk of moral justification. By what ethics or standards or reference are you seeking a moral justification of or condemnation of Hell fire. In other words what acceptable ethos will God be violating by sending men to hell?

It is demonic!!!

If we'll use the promise in Matthew 17, remember that the moving of the mountain (just like the dividing of the Red sea) is not an act of faith but a release of God's power through faith. Faith must have a basis and that basis is the substance of that faith!

Likewise anyone who purports to move an object sans touch depends on evil spirits to achieve it. Just like the soothsaying woman in Acts 16. Her ability came not because of a gift but a spirit of divination, there is no actual vacuum anywhere!

DoctorAlien:
Simple: By the time the new Jerusalem will descend out of Heaven, there will be nothing like hell, and so no gulf whatsoever separating from Heaven. See Rev. 21:1,4,5.

Indeed, no hell but there will be a Lake of fire.
Between Revelation 19 and 20 is 1000 years and 19 ends with the Beast and false prophet being cast there. Now after the milllenial reign satan will join the duo meaning they would NOT be annihilated by the fire!

goodnews201668:
Hmmmm na waoo, that means the story is a parable an illustration.
Obviously Abraham wasn't in heaven when Jesus told the story.
Check footnote of Jerusalem Bible to see it's a story.
Stop running from pillar to post.

I have asked you before,
Why did Jesus said it will be easier for a camel to pass through the needle's eye than for a rich man to enter the kingdom?

Must a Camel pass through the needle's eye for a rich man to make the kingdom?
No, it's practically impossible.
So Jesus uses illustrations, stories, sometimes the stories are exaggerated or hyperbolic.

So you believe Heaven is Abraham's bosom?

goodnews201668:
You said hell/Sheol has the bottomless pit.

That's not what the Bible said, hell/Sheol is the world of the dead and it's not a physical place.

The world of the dead but Psalm 9:17 makes it clear all will not be in the same condition.

While abyss is a different place, not a place of the dead. A bottomless pit, or place of restraint.
Someone maybe alive and be in abyss, when it was opened in revelations 9:1-3 it was figurative locusts that came out not dead people.
Chapter of Revelations shows that satan will be cast and chained into abyss and will be released after the one thousand year reign of Christ.

What do you mean by the highlighted? Besides, where is the pit and what will be its final end? Reserved for some satan wannabes?

DoctorAlien:
See another lie. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were gathered to Adam and Abel at their death? (Chei !!!) Where does the Bible say that?

The bolded part above: when did doctrines become a matter of personal persuasion?

And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and was gathered unto his people.
Genesis 49:33

DoctorAlien:
So Paradise is not Heaven? Jesus took the repentant thief to Paradise and left him there?

Meanwhile, who said that a big gulf separates Heaven and hell?

That was not an affirmation, it was a question I asked you!

DoctorAlien:
When GOD will rain fire on brimstone and the wicked at last, where will they emerge from?

I should ask you who are the dead that would be cast into the Lake of fire whose names are not in the Book of Life if the rain of fire will annihilate them?

DoctorAlien:
If Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were gathered to Adam and Abel at their death, to whom were Adam and Abel gathered at their own death?

Bible does not use that statement for them.

goodnews201668:
What about that Bible portion that suggested hell is abyss or bottomless pit?

What I did was to quote Strong's which clearly states the nature of Sheoul and also shows that apart from the Grave, the word is sometimes used to denote the Pit. And this pit is described as a bottomless (abyss) one! Simple!
http://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/9-1.htm

dolphinheart:
@ scholar8200, going up and down about what happens to man when he dies is not necessary, this view that a part of man survives death is wrong, the scriptures never taught us so.

The scriptures had told us how man was made, the process and the components in which man was created. none of this includes giving man a soul. The scriptures had irrevocably said " MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL".

The God that created adam also told adam what will happen to him at death, God said :
King James Version
Ge 3:17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

look at the underlined above, are you saying that God lied and Adam is still eating from the ground in hell? when the days of Adams life ended, surely he stopped eating right? therefore adam did not continue his life elsewhere!
King James Version
Ge 3:19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

look at the verse above, did God say " your body returns to the ground" ? no!, did God say part of you return to the ground" ? no!. God say "you", the person , returns to the ground, cus you where taken from the ground(read gen 2:7).
what did God say we are , he said we are dust!

when God made man, he formed the dust into flesh, before giving it life, this status of man was made known by God in the scripture below,(I'll quote more than one teanslation)

[color=red]New International Version
Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years."

New Living Translation
Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not put up with humans for such a long time, for they are only mortal flesh. In the future, their normal lifespan will be....
are you saying that God is lying here when he said that you are mortal? that in reality you are immortal, but just living in a mortal body?, God is referring to the real you or me here, he was not talking about a part of you. humans are mortals with a lifespan. They are living souls that stop living when they die.

now let's go further to what happens to that living soul when it dies.
The scriptures tells us these:
King James Version
Ps 104:29Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

King James Version
Ec 3:20All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

King James Version
Job 10:9Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?

When man dies, his spirit leaves him, he( the man, the person) turns to dust!
The scriptures are clear on where man returns to when he dies. All men, you and me, return to the same place adam returned to!

what happens to man at death:
King James Version
Ps 146:4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
did you read what the psalmist said " in that very day, his thoughts perish" . does this not contradict the view that the rich man had thoughts of his brothers still alive when he had died?
If you believe that the rich man literally had thoughts, then you are saying the bible is contradicting itself? is that so .
King James Version
Ec 9:5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
can you see what the scripture says here, when you are dead, YOU KNOW NOTHING!, but you want them to know they are burning and in pain right? The scriptures says otherwise.
whichever part of your composition you think is the real concious person, it knows nothing at death!
King James Version
Ec 9:6[u]Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished;[/u] neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
These verse tells you that a dead person has no feelings, it has perished, their love has perished!.
King James Version
Ec 9:10Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
can you see what happens to me and you when we die, no knowledge, no works, no wisdom in the grave/ hell/ pit/ sheol where we will all end up! do you agree with the scriptures or do you disagree with the words of a very wise man inspired by God?!


look at all these other scriptures
Ps 115:17The dead do not praise Jah; Nor do any who go down into the silence of death.

Ps 6:5For in death there is no mention of you; In the Grave, who will praise you?

Ps 146:3, 4Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation.4His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.

Isa 38:18For the Grave cannot glorify you, Death cannot praise you. Those who go down into the pit cannot hope for your faithfulness.

Ps 88:10Will you perform wonders for the dead? Can those powerless in death rise up to praise you?

Joh 11:11After he said these things, he added: “Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am going to awaken him

Isa 26:14They are dead; they will not live. Powerless in death, they will not rise up. For you have turned your attention to them To annihilate them and destroy all mention of them.

can the soul die? yes
King James Version
Eze 18:4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

King James Version
Eze 18:20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

King James Version
Re 16:3And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

Douay-Rheims Bible
jos 2:13 That you will save my father and mother, my brethren end sisters, and all things that are theirs, and deliver our souls from death

King James Version
Ps 33:19To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine.

King James Version
Ps 56:13For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?

from the scriptures, weave learnt the soul can refer to the person himself or the life the person has.

Noted, with thanks.

goodnews201668:
Let me pretend I agree with you, but the Bible said they were bought from earth with the blood of the lamb.

Is possible for one to make heaven when the lamb has not been slaughtered?
Remember we are talking about Abraham.
][Who was long dead before Christ came and sacrificed himself.

?Where did I say that Abraham was in Heaven before Jesus came

goodnews201668:
I

Abraham wasn't in heaven before Christ death, that one is certain.
The door of going to heaven was opened to humans after the death of Christ (John 3:13)shows that no man has ascended to heaven except Jesus that came from heaven.

Revelations 5:9,10 shows that Christ was slaughtered and with his BLOOD he bought people from earth and made to be a kingdom and priest and they are to rule the earth!
Stop misinterpreting the Bible.

Yes, we will rule the Earth at the Millenial reign
Revelation 20:1-3

Before then, they ALL will be in Heaven Revelation 7:9, Rev 19:9

goodnews201668:
And what about that portion suggests that Sheol or world of the dead is a bottomless pit?
Na waoo

which portion?

DoctorAlien:
At last, when the righteous are in heaven. Who will the wicked beg to be sent and to whom are they going to be sent?

At last, there will be no wicked on earth, see Revelations 20:15

DoctorAlien:
In what Bible do those chapters reveal such a lie?

Can't believe this.

You dont have to!
Where do you find it that what separates Heaven and Hell is a big gulf? Jesus was at paradise and also the prison but after resurrection said He had not ascended to the Father that tells you that Heaven is neither of those initial destinations He went after He died!

DoctorAlien:
You said before the resurrection of Christ, righteous people went to the bosom of Abraham at death. (!!!)

Where did Adam and Abel go at their death, since Abraham had not been born at that time?

Why are you lying like this?
Why?

Abraham? Jesus Himself speaks of where he was!
Abel, Noah etc, were mentioned for their faith in Hebrews 11, I am persuaded that those are the people Abraham, Isaac, Jacob etc were gathered to at death. Calling it Abraham's bosom does not necessarily mean he had to be the first there!

goodnews201668:
So you are saying the righteous ones has started resurrecting to heaven even from Abraham's time?

what gives you that impression? That is Not correct!

DoctorAlien:
Jesus was (and is still) righteous. When he died, was he taken to Abraham's bosom? Was it from Abraham's bosom that Jesus was resurrected?

Can't believe somebody will lie blatantly like this.

As much revealed in Scripture is that He said to the thief on the Cross,''this day you shall be with me in paradise''. Moreover, Peter revealed that He also went to the spirits in prison (the only place that implies is the same place where the devil will be imprisoned for 1k years).
After His resurrection, He plainly said ,''I have NOT yet ASCENDED to my Father!

DoctorAlien:
Jesus was (and is still) righteous. When he died, was he taken to Abraham's bosom? Was it from Abraham's bosom that Jesus was resurrected?

Can't believe somebody will lie blatantly like this.

As much revealed in Scripture is that He said to the thief on the Cross,''this day you shall be with me in paradise''. Moreover, Peter revealed that He also went to the spirits in prison (the only place that implies is the same place where the devil will be imprisoned for 1k years).

goodnews201668:
Abyss is not the same as hell,hades,Sheol,grave or the world of mankind where even righteous ones are according to the scriptures.

When it was opened in revelations 9:1,2 it was even locust that came out interestingly the Bible didn't mention dead people.

You mix everything together.

Satan will even be cast into abyss before the one thousand year reign of Christ.

Where did I say abyss was hell?
visit the link posted on this issue of abyss and pit.

DoctorAlien:
If the fire burns them to ashes, will their ashes be judged or what?

They have a soul and that soul will be resurrected to face the judgement in vs 12-15.

DoctorAlien:
That passage does not say people will be transferred from Abraham's bosom to another place!

Stop running around and show us where the Bible said that people will be transferred from Abraham's bosom to another place!

You spoke of resurrection and that verse was to show you what happened to the bodies of the saints, that's why i quoted that place.

DoctorAlien:
Abyss means bottomless pit! Google it.

Abyss means bottomless. http://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/9-1.htm