₦airaland Forum

ChinenyeN:
You're still talking about stragglers as though they represent your target population. Who cares if these "prominent sons" claim anything at all. There is still an entire population of over 2, maybe 3+ million with clear anti-Igbo sentiment. How do you reconcile this?

really? Who cares? You sure don't care!

We do. And that's why we have told you that you are not in the moral position to speak for us

ChinenyeN:
Igbo is not a nation. We do not recognize a single pan-Igbo flag. We don't even recognize Ohaneze as an authority that we listen to. That's three strikes for your position. There is far more work that needs to be done to show without question that an Igbo nationhood exists. We don't have that right now.

I'm talking about the here and now when it comes to convincing Ikwerre. I'm looking at an actual historical and present day track record, but you're looking at a future and dream that you have which includes them. I am certainly not the one being presumptuous here.

lol...what are you talking about?

Is there an authority that Igbo or yoruba or Hausa listen to? Ohaneze serves a role of a pan Igbo body which speaks the position of majority of Igbos on national issues and every Igbo tribe is represented in it. Every Igbo tribe.

A nation is a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory.

Is the above not a perfect definition of Igbo? Is there an igbo tribe found outside Nigeria? Or is south south not in Nigeria?

Type 'igbo flag' on Google and see what comes up. You don't realise what people like me have done with Google to launder Igbo identity. People like you and pazienza are a dying breed. We are gradually taking you out of the game with the internet.

Google things like

Igboland
Ikwere
Igbo people
Igbo flag

You will see that the narrative you are pushing here is not the narrative the world sees when they read about us

Armaggedon:
Hehehe ana eme nu
what a mentality you have.

I'm telling you bro chinenyen has a major defeatist mentality that nation builders need to stay far away from

ChinenyeN:
There is both a historical and present day track record to examine here, being that anything "Igbo" engenders aggression from Ikwerre. But your response to that is to continue giving them a little push? Sigh. Isn't that what you've all spent the past, almost 60 years doing? Yet, here we are. I'm obviously not as optimistic as you when it comes to this. So, feel free to endeavor. Perhaps you will be successful.

everything Igbo does not engender aggression from ikwere... otherwise they won't be in ohaneze and you won't hear many many of their prominent sons claim igbo at one point or the other... you know this too but your ego was probably badly hurt by an Ikwere man you couldn't forget

ChinenyeN:
But we are Igbo, discussing the destiny of Igbo and why it need or need not forcibly include Ikwerre.

that's the spirit

ChinenyeN:
We disagree on one detail and the implications of said detail, and you think you're the only one with visions of nation-building. It's presumptuous. It is also presumptuous to think you can convince Ikwerre to join your nation that you haven't built yet.

and it's presumptuous of you to think we can't convince them

Igbo is already a nation with a defined map, a flag and a leadership under ohaneze and ikwere are included in that map, in its leadership and wear it's national dress... The only thing we are doing is to launder the narrative into the hearts of other Nigerians (not even ikwere themselves because we have done that to include them in ohaneze) that Ikwere is igbo...that you don't know this is also another reason you should not speak on this matter.

ChinenyeN:
Enyi. Leave that talk of two, three, four hundred years into the distant future. In that same vein, Igbo might not even survive. It's a moot discussion. This is the here and now. As I said, I personally consider it a waste and will not suggest anyone endeavoring for such inclusivity. You on the other hand don't want to be "defeatists", so continue expending your energy. As I've already said, your chi will decide with you if two hundred years from now, Ikwerre + Igbo are one and if your sentiments and efforts were worth it (if there is even an Ikwerre or Igbo by that time).

there won't be an igbo in the next 200 years for sure with majority of Igbos thinking like you. I knew you know little about the making of nations..that's why you don't look far enough into the future to see how your actions today affect the future. You are not the only one...most blacks have always been like that including me. It was when I travelled abroad that I started reading about the history of European colonialism...I know many people have read it but I took time to really read it and understand how nations are created. Europeans are master nation builders...we blacks have a lot to learn from them.

Bro, what we do today matters more in how the future will be than what is done in the future. Yesterday creates today and today creates tomorrow, not the other war round. Today doesn't create today. It is not a moot discussion...it's the only important thing. And because you don't know it, the least you can do is take a back seat when how to create an igbo nation is being discussed.

Nations can not be created with your mentality and I respect that

ChinenyeN:
You still continue making a great many assumptions about me just to make your point. It's not helping. Simply say that you want to include Ikwerre because you think you can leverage them to put Igbo on the map. You want to include Ikwerre in an all-encompassing Igbo nation. As I have already said, that is fine, if that is your dream, though I believe it can be achieved in other ways and that you don't need Ikwerre for that. If Ikwerre is going to join, then it would do so of its own accord.

it will not do so on its accord if we don't give them a little push. Why we should want ikwere is still not obvious to you? That's exactly why you lack the moral authority to keep speaking on this topic. I respect you..but you should not continue speaking on this topic

ChinenyeN:
You are not versed in Ikwerre history so I will not go back and forth with you on the [de]merits of their position. The ultimate thing I need you to understand is this: Upon all the talk that you Igbo people have been doing. Upon all the shouting that you Igbo people have been shouting. Upon all the arguments you Igbo people have been making. Upon all the mgbali you people gbalila, we now live in a reality where Ikwerre undeniably distinct. Whatever lies they tell is ultimately unimportant. They could even start telling the obvious truth now, but it would make no difference. Ikwerre succeeded in not having its identity submerged and stifled within the umbrella of "Igbo".

Any argument, any statement, and plea that provided on the basis of origin, reauthored oral traditions and name changes means absolutely nothing in the face of one simple reality. The Ikwerre succeeded. The fact that we are even having this conversation now is evidence of such success. This conversation is AFTER THE FACT, proving the nigh futility of anything Igbo nationalists have to say.

I too believe that you do not have to reauthor history for the sake of self-determination [ana m ekwuru ụnụ, ndị "Igbo bụ Otu"]. However, at this point right now, we are clearly discussing something that has already happened. The how's and the why's are not as important as the reality of what faces us now, being that Ikwerre succeeded, and that is really all that matters.

look at a defeatist mentality! Chai!

Do you know that it was the Portuguese and the Dutch who first moved into Africa with the mind to colonize the continent? They were here for more than 300 years before the British and French arrived after they lost their North American colonies.
When did ikwere succeed in creating an ethnic group for themselves? In 1979! Lol not even up to 50 years ago. Do you know how the world works?
Do you know that 500 years ago that U.S was filled with native Indians just like Africa was filled with blacks? Do you know that it is possible that in the next 500 years that U.S maybe filled with Asians? You are very funny and lack the knowledge and insight needed in creating nations. Who told you that Nigeria will exist into 2050?
Ikwere have not nearly gone far enough for us to say we should leave them. Not nearly far enough. And that you and pazienza don't realise that shows that you should no longer speak on the matter.

ChinenyeN:
You do not know me. So don't presume anything about what I have and have not done.

Now, with that out of the way, I will tell you this. Consider my words and Pazienza's words as just simple advice. Heed them or don't. It is up to you. After all, a na-ekwu sị "biri ka m biri". I believe your dreams are foolhardy and an ultimate waste, but in the end, your chi will decide with you whether or not you wasted your time. Though, I believe your time could be better spent on other things, if your sole purpose is simply to provide more contributions to arts, music, etc., rather than depending on imports from a community that doesn't even want you. That's all. Carry on with your dream.

exactly I don't know you...but I know Duncan mighty, Monalisa Chinda, etc...they are proud of their igbo heritage.

I have not wasted my time anymore than you and pazienza have. I have not been involved in these arguments as much as both of you. I met both your Monikas in threads arguing this! Sad!

You waste your time trying to reinforce an already existing status quo that doesn't favour you or your ethnicity! Sad sad! And unintelligent even! You are mad that an Ikwere man insulted you and called you a backward Ibo! Lol! Now you are emotional and have sworn that you will spend your time on nairaland 'advicing' Igbos to flee from ikwere...lol. do you know how many whites died trying to create Canada, Americas and Australia? You think your emotions create nations? You think your biri Ka mbiri attitude create nations?

Now listen to my own advice, don't spend your time reinforcing an existing status quo, that is what will be a waste of your time... because for one that status quo has already been created...if you really want to use your time well, create something new! For now ikwere are not igbo...but we say ikwere are igbos... chikina it will pain a few people, that's part of what we intend to achieve

ChinenyeN:
It is one thing if you find what they call stragglers; random, sporadic examples of what you are looking for. These random, sporadic examples of Ikwerre who attend your "unity meetings" are stragglers. Believe in your stragglers, but know this. It is one think to be pleasantly surprised by stragglers, and it is another to act as though said stragglers are representative of your target population. The latter is foolhardy. That is the only thing Pazienza and I are saying.

I will now add my own on top of that.

It is an utter waste of time and resources to attempt to conscript an entire population who want nothing to do with you.

It is not an utter waste of time...and for one it is my time not yours.
Those 'stragglers' have done more than you through arts, music, books and politics to put Igbo (not ikwere) on the map. You on the other hand have done more than them to fragment Igbo and have done nothing to put Igbo on any map. The only time I ever see this your moniker on nairaland is on these types of topics. Why?

You see why I and many igbos will take our chances with those 'stragglers' more than with you?

I say again, the history of every nation on earth is the history of forcing unwilling people to come together. And that includes even very tiny island nations! Many nations formed like that a few centuries ago have all gone to become very successful and proud nations.

We have dreams of a nation for Igbo speakers...we will keep pushing that dream. You and pazienza are not doing anything new by saying ikwere are not igbo. That is already the current status quo...it is us who are pushing into new territory, converting ikwere people one 'straggler' after the other

ChinenyeN:
Sigh. So you're one of the "Igbo bụ Igbo" types ehn nụ? Propaganda has been running strong with you all since the post-war aftermath. Being "Igbo" pre-war was simply because that is what the British said. We just continued about our business despite it. Hence, indifferent. However, being "Igbo" now is a consequence of the choices that were made during and after the war.

We are now choosing to actively draw a line and pick one side or the other (nonsensically). Origin has nothing to do with what side was picked, and (listen well), ORIGIN DOES NOT MATTER. Sentiment and self-determination is really what matters here and that is what won out in the end. So quit this waste of a mantra that you call "Igbo bụ Igbo", and leave those who found themselves on the other side of the line alone.

you may well be right in all you have said...but you are damn wrong in the bolded

Nations are not created by weak-minded people who do the bolded.

Do what you want and leave us who are interested in building an igbo nation to do what we want.

There is something I want to tell pazienza....at first I wanted to take his advice and forget ikwere until I had a reawakening (story for another day). While you are sitting on your computer (probably in Lagos or outside igboland) asking Igbos to forget ikwere, some ikwere people and some igbos are on ground attending unity meetings and releasing works of art that put Igbo on the map.

In China, many people are of the opinion that China should forget Taiwan, but the very intelligent people who have been running china since the 70s know that that would be a grave error.
Notice how it's igbos such as yourself and pazienza who carry the 'ikwerre are not igbo' matter on head in this thread? Have you seen the post of an Ikwere yet? You think some of them haven't seen this thread?

Again do what you want...we will do what we want

Bonesking:
Yes, there are and we know that. But dumbs like you should quit opening threads to show your stupidity. Tell your jobless IPOB touts to leave Igbo issue alone.

I didn't open any thread o...but if I see this type of thread I will always comment the truth that Ikwere is Igbo

Please stop insulting me...I know for a fact that I'm older, richer and more powerful than you... forget anonymity here o

Bonesking:
IPOB tout go home and self quarantine yourself. Focus on your stupid brain and stop discussing topics that are above your shit head.

ikwere are Igbo chikina ..kill yourself

Bonesking:
Old Pazienza still acting stupid. How do you explain this foolery at this age. Look at the monickers you’re engaging. If not foolishness what would you call it. How do discuss useless topics as this with Aboki’s and their Afonja friends. You and the fellow IPOB members such as Selemempe are a disgrace to your fathers house.

Aboki roll call
Meleszenawi
Helinue
SonofEl
And a host of monickers

Afonja row call
Legend an his friends

I don't know why you are quoting me and talking rubbish... you can decide to do what yorubas want by balkanizing igboland...as for me I will do the opposite of what they want... besides for every you, there is an Ikwere and Igbo person who believes in our unity...so take several seats bro

I'm having a ball pissing you divide and conquer dudes off

oyatz:
Your post actually suggest that you regard the Ikwerres as dummies who need to be told and by extension can be controlled by the Ijaws (and later the Yorubas who don't even know the difference between Igbos & Ikwerres) on what to do and which ethnic identity they should proclaim.


You have condescending views about them.

so?

TonyeBarcanista:
Rivers is not an Ijaw state but by LGAs, population and vote spread, Ijaw constitute the largest (10 ½ LGAs) next to Ogoni (4 LGAs). The so called Ikwerre has just 3½ LGAs, Etche has 1, Omuma has 1, and Ogba/Egbema/Ndoni all share 1, Oyigbo 1.

The reason Ikwerre is still on the saddle is because of the political differences that Wike benefitted from.

Now lemme tell you, the entire 3½ Ikwere LGAs share same senatorial district (Rivers Southeast) with just 2½ Ijaw LGAs (Okrika, Ogu/Bolo) alongside Omuma and Etche. while Rivers West has 8 LGAs, 6 are Ijaws and 2 are non Ijaws. In Rivers southeast, of the 7 LGAs, 2 are Ijaws, 4 Ogoni while 1 Oyigbo.

Ijaw is the ONLY ethnic that has at least 2LGAs across the 3 zones in the state.

Ijaw has the highest number is LGA
Highest number of Wards
Highest number of HoR
Highest number in HoA

And presently occupies 2 out of the 3 Senatorial seats in the state

Let us learn to speak with facts!

BTW Rivers is not an Ijaw state... We are all stakeholders including non indigenous residents of the state

these fancy dreams of yours you will wake up from

Be telling yourself that it is only indigenes of rivers state vote in rivers election.. you will be alright las las

pazienza:
I disagree with you. We were not born into our ethnic groups by coincidence, and whether we like it or not, we will always be identified by the world around as by our ethnic group.

there is a reason why I won't reply to your earlier quote....we will talk that matter in an unrelated thread in the future

LegendHero:
Well you have your own reason. Although to me, it is a fruitless effort ithout much advantage to start trying to lay claim to people that some of them don't want to identify with you.

Take a cue from the Yorubas for example, the people of Itsekiri sometime claims that they don't want to identify with us and the Yorubas already stopped bothering about them. Although some of them want to, but others don't feel like.

One think I thank the Yoruba ancestors for is about fighting a war of consolidation among the Yorubas (Ekiti, Egba, etc.) and making sure we unite as one Yoruba entity forever. All other Yoruba sub-group like Itsekiri etc. already owned their destiny, they should be allowed to own their new identity without interference.

If you don't unify them in those past days, I am sorry it will be very hard to unify them in this age.

That is my own line of contribution to the thread.

we are never going to do something because yorubas are doing it
It has never happened before...it will not start now. You can deny yorubas outside south west or accept them...it's non of our business. Our destiny and realities are not the same

LegendHero:
You’ve made your point although I have my reservations.

@the bolded, what will be your gain? Since you are trying to do the opposite of what Ijaws and Yoruba wanted, what will be your own tribal gain if 100% Ikwerres identifies as Igbo?

if not for anything it unites brothers and adds to our lands and numbers

LegendHero:
That’s exactly what I’m trying to say.

The Ikwerres already passed a message through that action that they are NOT Igbos.

My question to the Igbo folks on here is that, what is the importance of trying to claim Ikwerres are Igbos?

it was the ijaws who were controlling Rivers state as at 1970 and it was the leadership of rivers state who started claiming abandoned property. You think rifrafs can claim a property they didn't build without government backing?

The ijaws are the cause of the whole Ikwere are not Igbo saga..they needed the Ikwerres to accept a minority tag in order to dominate them in the new state. All they had to do was give people Buchi Emecheta a platform.

Today many ikwere are realising the need to integrate with the larger igbo nation in order to retain dominance in River state. Now yorubas have joined the ijaws to repeat the trash that Ikwere say they are not igbo. Why should Igbos listen to ijaw and yorubas on this matter?

I repeat post one actual ikwere who says they are not Igbo, I will post two ikwere who say they are igbos. Deal?

It is always good practice to do the opposite of what your enemy wants. We know ijaws and yorubas are enemies in this very regard...we will do the opposite of what you want

Atigba:
Igboland is south east

in your Moslem prayers

Amarabae:
Anuofia you will be 30 this month, act your age,
You are not Igbo but opened this thread to troll.
Be careful

I know you are a proud Igbo woman... you need to know that igbos eburo Ibu. Anyi kwesili ijiko onwe anyi onu. Onye aha-na nwanne ya

If they speak igbo, dress in Isi Agu and look like Igbo....bro they are igbos

SLAP44:
Rivers is just 90% Igbo, Igbo don't own the whole state.

lol not exactly. Let's be factual always....Igbos constitute 71% of rivers state and that includes both the ikwere and south east igbos living in the state.

Lcf69:
Mehn!!! You've got to stop this your imperialistic Bunching aiit.Iwhuruoha can never be Igbo.And,a people of renowned n prominent ethic Nationality,had re-emphasized their Ancestral leanings and you lots are still struggling,okay naa continue chasing an obvious Mirage... Pinned.

for one ikwere man you post here who claims ikwere is not igbo, I will post two ikwere people who claim to be igbo

Do you accept this simple challenge? Or will you crawl back to your space in ogbomosho and hope that repeating a lie over and over will make it true.

Igboland will never be divided again

Lcf69:
Mehn!!! You've got to stop this your imperialistic Bunching aiit.Iwhuruoha can never be Igbo.And,a people of renowned n prominent ethic Nationality,had re-emphasized their Ancestral leanings and you lots are still struggling,okay naa continue chasing an obvious Mirage... Pinned.

listen to what this ikwere man has to say about that


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d4VwLVVXpA

greenmonk:
So Ikwerre should also be ogoni because nothing separated them and ogoni also should be Ibo. Why can't ibos respect other people and their rights to their choice?

does ikwere and ogonis share a language and DNA?

Choice? You can't choose your ethnicity...it's one of those things that you can't choose. You can't choose your gender. You can't choose your race.

It's part of your genome. Gosh

Why don't you choose to be Swedish?

gidgiddy:
It depends on the Ikwerre you meet. Some Ikwerres claim not to be Igbos, others claim to be Igbos. Famous Ikwerre novelist, Elechi Amadi, always claimed not to be Igbo. Former Governor Chibuike Amaechi cane out on national Tv to tell everyone that he is Igbo despite being an Ikwerre man.

But no matter the Ikwerre you meet, their language is Igbo and they all have Igbo surnames

see what this ikwere man has to say


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d4VwLVVXpA

oceania100:
The fact is, their language is a dialect of Igbo. When they speak, other Igbo understand them very well. The question of whether they are Igbo or not is a different thing entirely.

look at the map of igboland. See how nothing separates Ikwere from the larger Igbo nation.

How on earth is it reasonable to insinuate they are not Igbos. DNA test shows they are a match with the other Igbos... what else do people want

Nwodosis:
We should be happy that Covik- one nine virus has brought his overseas travelings to a stop!
Bubu has got nothing to lose, he's enjoying his retirement life as a President.

courtesy of the most sophisticated ethnic group in Africa

Tolase1999:
am not directing myrelf to one tribe am directing myself to africa as a whole.
and what give u the assurance that if nigeria divide there will be good governance, while not seeking for good governance for nigeria. and if i may ask, is spain not practising a good governance that catalonia wanted to leave?

it's good that you mentioned Spain. The only reason why Catalans want their own country is because they are not Spanish ethnic.

Europe is made up of countries that are almost same ethnicity...why can't Africa aspire to that?

What is the business between an Hausa Moslem and an igbo Christian? How can they build a nation together when nothing brings them together except skin colour?

We should divide and move on...good governance can't get to Nigeria because of ethnic politics