₦airaland Forum

italo:
Can a Christian who doesn't love God go to heaven?

You can't be a Christian if you don't love God. You can't hate God and say you are a follower- haters of God are the atheist and all that don't believe in Christ.

vooks:
He says that mystery was revealed to the apostles. Digest that negro.

What mystery Mr vooks?

Eph 1:1
For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles— 2 assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to [size=26pt]me[/size] for you,

vooks:
I don't understand how a mystery Paul, by the Spirit, tells us revealed to the apostles was revealed to Paul ALONE...I'd have to lose my brains first before I ignore the glorious truth of Eph 3

I fully understand Deut 29:29 probably better than you can ever dream of in two lifetimes

he talked about a mystery that reveals that Gentiles are now called to be a part of God.

Isn't that different from the mystery of the message that actually does the work of imputing righteousness?


Did he personalise the gospel he got from Jesus like no other person did, yes or no?

italo:
Shdemidemi, can a christian who doesn't love his brother go to heaven?

Is heaven dependent on who I love or who I do not love?

My answer to your question based on scripture is 'yes'.

italo:
I can. Paul called the Corinthian Church "carnal" and "saints."

What made paul call them saints, could it be because they helped themselves or cooperated with God I.e was it by their doing?

italo:
I meant to say I cant make myself righteous on my own.

Better!

italo:
I can cooperate with God's grace by doing good and living right...to make myself righteous. Like Abraham who cooperated by offering up his son.

When you say cooperating with God's grace, does that mean His grace isn't sufficient?

@vooks

Do you understand Deuteronomy 29:29...it says some things are hid until an appropriate time.

Paul says the mystery that had been hid all the while before him was revealed to him.

Do you understand the above?

shdemidemi:
NOOOOO.. They were not made in God's image but in the image of the fallen man- Adam.
Gen 5:3
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

Do you agree Mr vooks the critic?

vooks:
Is it clear that the mystery was revealed to APOSTLES not just him?

How is revelation of this mystery to apostles personalising? Dump that Scoffield Junk and start using your head

What mystery did Eph 3:6 speak about?

Paul says things like-
Rom 2:16
This will take place on the day when God judges people's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

2 Tim 2:8
Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel,

italo:
Because I still sin, like St. Paul and the Corinthians after their justification.

Does that not mean you can't help yourself?

You can't say you have made yourself righteous and at the same time say you remain a sinner, can you?

shdemidemi:
Thank you, I guess only Frosbel is good on this forum.

Can you help yourself from the sinner status to a 'righteous' status?

italo:
Yes.

That was my exact question.

italo:
That wasn't your question. Stop lying.

I cannot make myself righteous but I can help myself by cooperating with God's grace by doing good and living right.

Good... Now you agree you can't make yourself righteous.

What do you mean by cooperating with God's grace?

vooks:
M0ronic brains

Ephesians 3:3-6 New King James Version (NKJV)

3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: [size=26pt]6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs[/size], of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,

To Paul was REVEALED exactly what was revealed to APOSTLES

My brainy critic

Do you need the parts where he personalise his message of the gospel?

It was revealed that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs. What it did not say- we were all taught this gospel that is to be preached to Gentiles.

esere826:
Fair enough
Please can you help to present a timeline for different activities and revelations from Matthew to Revelation.
Such a visual presentation could be helpful.
It doesn't need to have dates, just present it in a linear sequence.

From this, we can try determining when Paul received this revelation compared to the other apostles
and whether this was the final revelation of his or if he reverted back to previous revelations

We can even learn loads of other stuff than can help in our discussions

Something like this:

Can't do that at the moment but there is quite a lot of time lines that depict the timing of event from Gen. to Rev. on line.

I will probably paste one much later. They certainly help for guided study.

vooks:
There is little to zero difference between Frosbel who believes the Bible is full of error and fables and myths and a Dispensationalism who literally and arbitrarily DIVIDES the Word and apportion some parts to imaginary lumps of time called dispensations,and dismisses the same as irrelevant.

The effect is the same, watering down the Authority of the Word

Do you understand Deuteronomy 29:29...it says somethings are hid until an appropriate time.

Paul says the mystery that had been hid all the while before him was revealed to him.

Do you understand the above?

vooks:
My broda,
Those who perish in hell were made in his image as well

His word to which He is very faithful tells you that 'not all who say Lord Lord'

NOOOOO.. They were not made in God's image but in the image of the fallen man- Adam.
Gen 5:3
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

esere826:
Ok guys,

why don't we step back and take a look at the root cause of all of these arguments and confusion
An atheist would simply explain that it is because there is no God, and that the writers of the Bible were writing fairy tales and hence the confusion.

It is clear that the bible seems to support both points of views that you guys are debating
and hence, you can never come to an agreement
So the question for me would be "who actually propounded these points of view?"
and why?

I have my theory about what happened, but it is quite long

The bible isn't confusing if we learn to understand it as a progressive revelation instead of one flat story book. It is within God's prerogative to keep things hidden from man until He chooses to unveil them. He unveiled the message for the church to Apostle Paul but my friends will rather pitch their tent with those who came before the Apostle.
Deut 29:29
"The LORD our God has secrets known to no one. We are not accountable for them, but we and our children are accountable forever for all that he has revealed to us, so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions.

vooks:
So your Father is pleased with IRRELEVANT stuff?

What are the consequences of NOT asking for forgiveness?

Supposing you caught your 25 year old son undressing his 1 year old. He stops just as you walk in on him. You tell him the errors of that and then....nothing

Next, you find him in the very act....he is not remorseful nor insane. what do you do? Nothing

Next,he rapes your teenage daughter and impregnated her...what do you do?....nothing. he is your son and nothing can change that.

Next, you catch him drooling at your paralysed wife,his own mother....you are imagining

Next, he you find him dressing up after a serious session of rape...he is still your son. no remorse nor aksin for forgiveness

Next, you are woken up by screams from your mother's room. She visited and slept over.....

Why call the cops, he is still your son. And he is born again with his past,present and future sins forgiven

Next, you wake up in the night. He is busy trying to sodomize you.....

You can add some more if you choose... Does it all take out the fact that he was made from my loins?

Man remain unfaithful but God remains faithful to His Word.. I f He says it, He will do it. Man will always fail, no matter how you put it but God remain true to His Word.

italo:
I have done so...but I have to keep doing it. Justification is on-going throughout ones lifetime.

If you have, why did you agree to be a sinner when I asked?

italo:
[s]That is why the Bible says a man is justified by works, not by faith alone. E.g Abraham.

But you believe James was ignorant when he wrote that part of the Bible.

Moreover, James is saying 'works' and 'faith'. My question was if you can make yourself righteous...you said 'yes'.

Do you stand by your 'yes' or do you think it needs 'faith' and your 'work'?

vooks:
Talking of which you been playing dumb for a better part of today

Why do you ASK for forgiveness seeing Christ forgave you your past,present and future sins?

Asking for forgiveness or the lack of it does not affect my salvation. My son ask for forgiveness when he does something wrong, and sometimes he does not, none of the two conditions affect the fact that he is my son and he will remain so.

I do not beg for forgiveness to go to heaven, I ask for forgiveness because It pleases my father. God saved me when I was bad, evil, and an enemy..will He un-save me now that He has adopted me.

Rom 5
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement

vooks:
You admitted that you STILL sin even after chewing through Scoffield Bible.

What are you doing about it?

I need not remind you about m0ronic questions

Cc: italo

Allow the man answer questions, he probably understand his beliefs than you who would evade questions that will hatch your confusion.

italo:
Yes.

Interesting!!! Why haven't you done that already? By now you shouldn't be admmiting the 'sinner' status since you can correct the wrong.

vooks:
M0ronic ideas are housed in m0ronic minds,which are possessed by m0rons.

Now, tell me;

1. how does Israel rejecting Christ translate into Israel rejecting an earthly king who came to rule the earth from Jerusalem?

2. How would salvation have been procured had Jews not rejected Christ?

3. What was the point of incarnation? So that Christ can be a king?

Look in the mirror bro, who do you see?

vooks:
M0ron,
Walk me through how we jump from rejecting Christ to setting up an earthly kingdom head-quartered in Jerusalem

did you just call me a m-oron!!! Grow up my friend and brother.

italo:
Yes.

Thank you, I guess only Frosbel is good on this forum.

Can you help yourself from the sinner status to a 'righteous' status?

vooks:
Let me tell you a secret. Dispensationalism garbage teaches that Jesus came to rule in Israel and the entire world from thence but Jews thwarted his dreams and the kingdom. More on this later

vooks the rookie critic...
Mat 15:24
New International Version
He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

John 1:11
He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.


Can you comprehed the fact that Israel rejectecd her king?

vooks:
Am still waiting for the trash. Am longsuffering

I don't mind puny brains, God made them thus

Bitterness kills, take a chill pill. This isn't about you, its all about God. So, stop taking it personal my dear.

vooks:
He was as dumb as shdemidemi, he was his equal

It takes a leap of faith to believe this BS

you sound offended, you're ok?

vooks:
Brilliant!
Paul and Peter preached repentance and they both preached abhorring sin.
Thank you sir

Who said they didn't?

vooks:
A few words from Paul's preaching on repentance;

Acts 17:30-31 New King James Version (NKJV)

30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Acts 20:21 New King James Version (NKJV)
21 testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 26:20 New King James Version (NKJV)
20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance


I wonder whether this word REPENT so freely used by Paul and Peter meant different things.

The last scripture is interesting; we have Paul preaching WORK! Just like John the Baptist. Glory to God! And isn't this what James was talking about?


The other thing worthy noting is REPENTANCE. What do we mean by REPENTANCE? Any idea bro?


Look at Acts 20:21 and contrast them to this post


Paul taught BOTH repentance and belief/faith

You keep running from pillar to post like a colt and a novice about this issue of Paul.

The book of Act of Apostle isn't a doctrinal book but a time when history was unfolding and it was progressive. Your style of seeing the entire book like one big story book you can randomly pick statements that appeal to you from is gateway to error. Paul did not know all he knew the first day he got converted, yet he preached at that time. He was away for three years before after which he came back to present the message of Grace to all.

vooks:
Did Paul teach abhorrence of sin?
You already admitted that Peter did

Paul did in Romans 12-13. However it is impossible for one to abhor sin or practice what is righteous by God's standard without the imputation of righteousness. Death to self must occur before one dares to abhore the act of sin else it will be done in simulation and self-righteousness.

vooks:
So, Paul was least concerned with abhoring sin seeing God imputed righteousness?

Do you understand imputation of God's righteousness and the understanding of His goodness through His Word(doctrine) leads to repentance?

Romans 2:4
Don't you see how wonderfully kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Does this mean nothing to you? Can't you see that his kindness is intended to turn you from your sin?

vooks:
Peter's repentance is for SIN whereas Paul's repentance. Is for the Cause of SIN?

What's the difference between these?

One deals with sin from the source through God's imputation of righteousness.

The other addresses sin from man's ability to abhor sin in other to stay on the right side of God.

vooks:
Peter: Remorse~~~>Repentance
Paul: Word of God~~~>Repentance

What is the difference between these two? Any scriptural basis?

Can one repent if they are not remorseful, if they bear zero regret for the subject of their repentance?

Peter's call for repentance is primarily based on my act of sin i.e lies, steal, jealousy .....

Paul's call for repentance is for the sin imputed in us through Adam which causes us to carry out the act.... When the issue is addressed from the source, it reflects the acts of sin.

Joker!

vooks:
You are not clear in your response.
According to Paul, KNOWLEDGE leads to REPENTANCE, right?

So did he teach repentance?

Pay attention...

Peter preached repentance which comes as a result of remorse. Paul preached it as a subsequent change which comes after one is filled with the Word of God(doctrine/gospel). The change come as a result of the Word.