₦airaland Forum

frosbel:
Did you also skip the following ;

4416 /prōtótokos [size=14pt]("firstly"[/size] specifically refers to Christ as the [size=14pt]first to experience glorification[/size], i.e. at His resurrection (see Heb 12:23; Rev 1:5). For this (and countless other reasons) Jesus is "preeminent" (4416 /prōtótokos) – the unequivocal Sovereign over all creation (Col 1:16).

Context is the key word by friend, NO MAN has resurrected like Christ today , NONE, ZILCH , ZERO. He is the FIRST BORN, THE FIRSTLY , THE FIRST to experience glorification from the dead.

[size=14pt]first to experience glorification[/size]

What is glorification?

How does the sentence in itself corroborate your definition of 'first born' or 'first begotten'?

frosbel:
so 'firstborn' from the dead means ;

a) pre-eminence/superior from the dead

or

b) first born from the dead ?




4416 /prōtótokos ("firstly") specifically refers to Christ as the first to experience glorification, i.e. at His resurrection (see Heb 12:23; Rev 1:5).[size=32pt] For this (and countless other reasons) Jesus is "preeminent"[/size] (4416 /prōtótokos) – the unequivocal Sovereign over all creation (Col 1:16).

Do you even read to understand things before you go ahead to argue?

Check the definition you gave up there, read it repeatedly then go ahead to compare it to what you thought 'firstborn' means.

frosbel:
Let me try to answer you at a kindergarten level since that is within the realm in which you operate.

Jesus is first born from the dead because he is alive forver more, i.e death has no longer any hold on him, whereas the others were liable to die at a later date.

First born in the context used means pre-eminence/superior. It means He surpasses all other as regards importance and excellence.

frosbel:

Wrong my brother .

I believe that he is the God of the universe , but that he may be known by other names in other cultures such as Chineke in Igbo or Olorun in Yoruba etc. in other words he is the God of all mankind and not exclusive to the Jews.

Sorry to bust your bubble cheesy

;DMy friend, I can't believe you are asking for an apology for helping you say what you are being reluctant to say.

Who constantly say Jesus can't possibly be the only way to God since many people had died in the past and many 'good' people continue to die without knowing Christ?

Who says the New Testament which happens to be the only resource that shows us step by step details on how we can get saved is a falsified book?

Could you please tell us what you mean when you say God is the God of the entire universe for record purpose.

[quote author=frosbel post=29486748][/quote]Do you now agree Jesus is the only way to the father?

@GOSHEN

your friend has made up his mind to distort the message of Christ. He now confesses that obatala, amadioha, esuodara are all one and the same with ELOHIM. All that concerns him at the minute is discrediting the bible and at the same time throw a lot of confusion around as to why the bible should be thrown out. He is on a quest to foster his beliefs on the forum.

I think he likes you, seemingly because you have been a comrade he used when he was discrediting wolves in sheep clothing within the church. He has since moved from there, I don't think he needs you for his new cause. I think he will eventually oblige you at some point but be ready for what is to hit you, it might not be pleasant.

frosbel:
Good quotes .

I hope our sister and brother can explain how this relates to the once saved always saved concept.

Frosbel has arrived at Once saved always saved argument, what will you not contend with in scripture just to prove Jesus isn't the only way to God?

I will ask you brief questions about the post you referred to up there.

1) what audience did Peter primarily address his epistle to?

2) was the book of Hebrews addressing the church or the jews who were mixing The idea of Jesus and His grace with their old legalism and sacrificial laws of the past?

If you understand these questions let alone answering it, explaining those part of scripture will be breeze.

Isn't the circular world just a well set up, intelligent, wise and clever system. What wouldn't the world do to discredit God with the aim of kicking Him out all together. Is there a better way to get rid of God than destroying And dividing what unarguably remains His Word to His elect?

The question that begs an answer is what will then happen after the world successfully mitigate the integrity, importance and authenticity of the entire scripture as God's word? It will mean we have completed a full circle that brings us back to the time of Noah when all men became depraved and walked away from their saviour.

Who is to say if all the purported alterations did not work together for God according to His intended will. In my view the bible remain the perfect gift of God to mankind and I have no reason within the book to question this intricate, balance and inerrant book. God remains true just as the bible remain true. The bible isn't some form of theory but facts and this cut across any subject it deals with.

Any 'Christian' mystified by the account of the New Testament is not being sincere. They have no fidelity for the entire scripture but they try to put up a charade just so they can infuse, impose and wrest their ideas on scripture especially with topics within the books they just can't comprehend. Your attitude towards every part of scripture conspicuously reveals your loyalty or lack of it towards the Creator and the Redeemer.

YOU CAN BELIEVE THE BIBLE AND YOU CAN ALSO TAKE ANOTHER OPTION TO REJECT IT... WHAT YOU CANNOT DO IS IMPOSE BIOLOGY OR YOUR PERSONAL AGENDA ON GOD'S WORD.

“Good works do not make a good man, but a good man does good works.” – Martin Luther

frosbel:
Your faith shdemidemi , not THE FAITH.

and by the way who is Bishop Noel Jones, who ordained him as a bishop. SMH.

Kweshon! Is that what we are talking about here, your problem have suddenly shift to Noel Jones.

What else should I be dogmatic about If not the Word of God?

frosbel:
dog·ma·tism
ˈdôɡməˌtizəm/
noun
the tendency to lay down principles as incontrovertibly true, without consideration of evidence or the opinions of others.
"a culture of dogmatism and fanaticism"


Food for thought ;

https://nomadspirit.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/dogma.jpg

And what else Other than the bible should I be dogmatic about, wikileaks paper? Besides, the bible isn't man's doing, it is God's.

If FAITH comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, is it then possible to have FAITH if the content isn’t God? – Bishop Noel Jones

You are definitely not a part of this christian Faith cos what you believe isn't scripture.

Bidam:
Goshen no go kill peson with laff o..wetin be bible giant AGAIN? Everyone here is a bible student.

giant ke! the thing weigh for my shoulder sef.

haibe:
lol I will pass you by cos I see you don't even understand what you believe, a lot like you are out there too

You now know how to deal with the troll.

frosbel:
Mate, worse has been said about me and others who are tearing away at your fables and myths , we will continue to free the sheep no matter how many violent tantrums you throw.

Violent tantrums! haba. ..

What sheep? and what will you possibly tell them!

Pastor Frosbel: the bible have some lies but we can still try fetch some truth from it.

My dear friend, the bible can never be moderately true. It is either TRUE or FALSE.

I am prepared to believe WHATEVER the bible says, and to take it believing it to be the Word of God; for if it isn't entirely true, it is not worth anything to me.

It may be fallible to a very wise Frosbel who is so wise that he can pick out the true from the false.

Goshen360:
Let us who correct an erring brother do so in patience and humility, knowing we also have a Master that is patient with us. I don't agree with frosbel on some or most of his new stuff but let's correct gently.

And that is exactly what we have been doing so far. The guy needs help. I hope he does not end up in Islam with the way he is going, he will be worse than shekau.

frosbel:
I am not a Christian for sure, especially not the type defined by shdemidemi

I didn't define anything.. Stop fibbing.

You are never for the bible but against all it represent.

frosbel:
Wrong again, cool down bro, you are getting overheated.

The Bible is still a very valid book for use in understanding God, his will and his plan for mankind.

But ;

1. Almost all the doctrines that are preached in churches today are not in the bible
2. Verses in the bible that support some of these doctrines were added as fabrications by the religious leaders
3. Agreeably , a lot of the errors in the bible are copyist errors, that is inadvertant mistranslations.
4. There are outright lies introduced into some parts of the bible especially the NT to support erroneous and mythical concepts like the virgin birth.

I can't do your study and research for you , may I kindly suggest that you make 2015 a year of questing for truth.

Lol.. Do you see me as one who follow without checking what I hear?

You are only using the anomalies in the church as an excuse, you ain't a Christian and you know it.

How you wish people can stop being orthodox and come hear god through you and your evil source.

Goshen360:
Frosbel, can I ask you a question about the virgin birth here?

I don't think the guy's problem is about topics in the bible, he simply does not believe the entire bible so he lurks behind a charade to attack biblical doctrines.

frosbel:
Basics are ;

"Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God, 2 instruction about cleansing rites, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And God permitting, we will do so." - Hebrews 6:1-3

I thought you were going to show me where it says the bible isn't entirely true.

frosbel:
There is no angle of argument you can bring to deceive me or twist the truths, I have been in the system and I know how rotten and false it is from the inside out.

We are trying to peel away the layers of rot and reveal the beautiful truths that were once delivered onto the saints.

Thanks and please don't take this personal , na debate we dey debate ooo

And the layers you are peeling brought you to a place where your mind can conceed that the bible is filled with lies.

frosbel:
Mate , you need to go on a proper course so you will get some enlightenment and stop parading this endless ignorance in a public forum.

How can you teach deep truths when you are grappling with the simple basics ?

And what are the basics?

The basics to you is that the bible is filled with lies and you expect every Christian to buy into such blasphemy.

The evil one is really working on you.

frosbel:
Good, with your own mouth you have proven without a doubt that your Bible is not realiable.


Some food for thought from a fellow brother ;

And what makes Zack hunt different from our very own nk maniac?

I repeat and affirm that the bible is more than reliable.

frosbel:
Then you do not deserve to be a teacher of truth, you have failed at the first hurdle because some of the most strict evangelical bible scholars accept that the bible has thousands and thousands of errors , only someone who has not done his proposer due diligence will make the statement you made.

Let all your bible scholars be liars and God and His book be true.

If I believe there is one error in the bible, it loses its integrity and it is not fit to be my guide. If I dare question one thing in the book, I question the entire book.

frosbel:
All topics are on the table, no ?

I keep saying you need to reexamine all your beliefs again so you do not keep misleading those poor students of yours !

You evade vooks question, the same way you scampered when you ran out of points to defend your no heaven no hell proposition.

Now its salvation, very soon it will be the law and grace. Keep running round circles, the truth will always find you out.

frosbel:
Do you hold onto the notion that every word, coma, full stop , apostrophe , sentence in the bible are 100% inspired by God ?

Lol..can't you just answer a simple question. Is the supposed myth mean the bible contain lies?

Every single word in the bible is God's truth.

frosbel:


first off, welcome back with another one of your multiple IDs

I have 3 questions for you ;

1. What is salvation ?
2. When does salvation happen ?
3. Do you believe a Christian can draw back from Christ and forfeit his/her salvation ?

You keep jumping from pillar to post... From a confused position of hell and heaven to a warped understanding of salvation.

frosbel:
I am not attacking Christians , don't be silly, I am only debating on the fallacies , myths and fables , that have been presented and accepted as truth in pagan Christendom over the last 2000 years.

And one of your supposed myth is that the bible is filled with lies, right?

frosbel:
It is actually because if the deception is not removed how can they understand the real message of the gospel.

Read ; Matthew 23:15

Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? You can't remove deception by force but by impacting true knowledge. Only true knowledge of Christ set one free.

frosbel:
Do you agree that not all your teachings are truth ?

If there is any prayer I take seriously. it will be that I don't mislead anyone in the things that concern God. Hence why I juxtapose any idea I have with scripture to find out the truth. If scripture does not support my idea, I dump it straight away, no matter how hard..and trust me, it can be difficult to do some times.

frosbel:
Good question.

How can those who hold on to myths lead anyone into the real TRUTH ?


I think more effort should be put into studying and teaching than other worldly aggressive measures that has no precedence in scripture.

Funny thing is , those who held on to the position of orthodoxy have committed the worse acts of aggressions over a thousand years, this is a fact. Welcome to the crusades and inquisitions.

Men are first men before being Christians.. We are all fallible as men. The worse thing is what you advocate, a situation where we have no guide to structure our mind, no standard to control our excesses. Freedom to do as we choose, as long as we feel it is good by our own self judgement.

frosbel:
^^^

Should we then stay silent and let people remain in darkness or should we reveal the truth so they can be saved ?

Your problem does not seem to be the salvation of their soul and that in itself should be your primary concern. When they understand scripture, discerning false teachers and false practices will become easier.

True Christians can't stay silent, we must teach the true Word of God just as the bible had commissioned us to. But, how do we do this, if we lack the true knowledge of scripture? Can the blind lead the blind?

I think more effort should be put into studying and teaching than other worldly aggressive measures that has no precedence in scripture.

frosbel:
the wrath of Jesus was almost always directed at false teachers, he shook their establishment and they killed him.

Do you just choose what you want to respond to and ignore tricky ones?


Knowing this that you know less than 1% that there is to be known about the world and God, shouldn't that teach you to be more permissive even when you see people in the wrong?

Did he call for a revolution to force his ideas even though He knew it all?

Jesus told a parable of the wheat and tare, take note of the servant and his own way of dealing with the conundrum. I am sure you are familiar with the parable.

Matthew 13
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? ( the servant was about doing what yo are doing right now, guess what the owner(Jesus) said-

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them(frosbel, what did Jesus say? burn them!): but gather the wheat into my barn.

God is the God of justice, there shall certainly be a day of harvest where the wheat will be separated from the tare. Your job as a christian isn't to gather them up but to constantly share God's word to anyone willing to hear. No room for any form of confrontation or violence my friend.

frosbel:
Define the word Salvation as suggested in scripture and then explain in not more than 100 words what we are saved from and where we are saved into and who does the saving.

Cheers.

salvation was used in scripture in different ways-

It can be used to denote material and temporal deliverance from danger.

Luke 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

It can be used of spiritual and eternal deliverance
Romans 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation

It can be used for deliverance from the bondage of sin



WHO DOES THE SAVING

God, through the power encapsulated in the the good news of Jesus Christ only.

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: [size=26pt]for it (the gospel of Christ) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth[/size]; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

frosbel:
My experience and belief is progressive and evolutionary, after all God is not static as some false teachers will try to make him out to be, God is a revelator and truth is not exhaustive, we shall continue to learn till the knowledge of the Lord fills and soaks the earth at the time of the establishment of his Kingdom.

You see , unlike your stagnant situation in the cesspit of orthodoxy and dogmatism , I have learnt to discover things for myself while asking God for wisdom and retaining the crucial element of humility to ensure I do not go astray.

God does not reward adherence to doctrinal positions, he rewards those who rightly divide the word of the truth.

Thank You again for your immense contributions.

Knowing this that you know less than 1% that there is to be known about the world and God, shouldn't that teach you to be more permissive even when you see people in the wrong?

How exactly did Jesus handle the issue of false teachers?

Did he call for a revolution to force his ideas even though He knew it all?