₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkiee:
I am not in the mood for this unintelligent yammering abeg!

I already showed how Paul himself made clear that the context of his letters was Jesus Christ, and the same Jesus Christ by way of His Constitutional Law for the Kingdom of God revealed that He alone is Master to those in the Kingdom of God — of course, Jesus Christ could not have been master to those of the Old Law of Moses.

If Jesus Christ is not the master of those of the old testament, why did he call himself Lord of the Sabath ?

Kobojunkiee:
This ain't rocket science. And in the same Kingdom of God, there is only one Father overall, the Father in Heaven, and no other as Father. Jesus Christ also said. And this the same Jesus Christ who proclaimed that those who love Him among His followers are those who submit to and obey His teachings and commandments.

Seems you have nothing else to offer so let others engage abeg!

Show me where Paul said he's a father to people in the kingdom of God. Otherwise U are a LIAR.
Bring the verse where Paul said such.

Paul wrote this....
2 I am writing to Timothy, my dear son.

Timothy, my dear son, be strong through the grace that God gives you in Christ Jesus.

How this translates to Paul saying he's the father of Timothy in the kingdom of God is bewildering to say the least.

That's even if U understand what kingdom of God actually meant U won't say this.
Anyhow your believe is your believe even if it's false.

Kobojunkiee:
I call on you to engage your brain when you reason these things please.

Jesus Christ said He did not come to change or abolish the Law which existed in the land at the time. Meaning that even though He came to give new commandments, that commandment had to have no impact on existing Laws in the land. Do you know how He was able to do this? He taught His followers that a separation existed - Two different Nations were in play, each Law belonging to the other or the other. The Old Law pertained to the context that was the Nation of Judah/Israel in the land of Canaan, whereas the New Law/Covenant which He brought to His followers only applied to those who were born-again hence of the Kingdom of God. He lived in submission to the existing Law at the time in question but He gave to His followers — those who are of the Kingdom of God which He brought to them — the other Law to live by. And both Laws are Eternal Laws.

Jesus Christ's rule to His followers applies only to those who belong in the Kingdom of God. That much is made abundantly clear in His teachings that even a gnat would not miss it. So, this attempt by your person to feign ignorance of the basics of the Kingdom of God — a Kingdom that is not of this world — does not do your case any good.

P.S. If, as you claim, I am as guilty as Paul, then it means I am equally guilty of sin against Jesus Christ as well and would immediately repent so that I continue instead in submission and obedience rather than disobedience(sin). But what you will never get me to say is that the Word of Jesus Christ is to be diminished to raise me from my guilt. I will never throw the truth of God, Jesus Christ, under the bus as you lot do so freely, all so you can raise a man above Jesus Christ.

Show me where Jesus said he didn't come to CHANGE the law. Bring the bible verse here
U will just be forcing words I to Jesus mouth anyhow.

Kobojunkiee:
I call on you to engage your brain when you reason these things please.

Jesus Christ said He did not come to change or abolish the Law which existed in the land at the time. Meaning that even though He came to give new commandments, that commandment had to have no impact on existing Laws in the land. Do you know how He was able to do this? He taught His followers that a separation existed - Two different Nations were in play, each Law belonging to the other or the other. The Old Law pertained to the context that was the Nation of Judah/Israel in the land of Canaan, whereas the New Law/Covenant which He brought to His followers only applied to those who were born-again hence of the Kingdom of God. He lived in submission to the existing Law at the time in question but He gave to His followers — those who are of the Kingdom of God which He brought to them — the other Law to live by. And both Laws are Eternal Laws.

Jesus Christ's rule to His followers applies only to those who belong in the Kingdom of God. That much is made abundantly clear in His teachings that even a gnat would not miss it. So, this attempt by your person to feign ignorance of the basics of the Kingdom of God — a Kingdom that is not of this world — does not do your case any good.

P.S. If, as you claim, I am as guilty as Paul, then it means I am equally guilty of sin against Jesus Christ as well and would immediately repent so that I continue instead in submission and obedience rather than disobedience(sin). But what you will never get me to say is that the Word of Jesus Christ is to be diminished to raise me from my guilt. I will never throw the truth of God, Jesus Christ, under the bus as you lot do so freely, all so you can raise a man above Jesus Christ.

Not interested in your long epistle filled with lack of sound doctrines and principles. Keep it for your gullible members u fill with lies and can't question it. We are bereans here.

If U are adding words and context for jesus statement, we can do the for Paul's statement.
Paul referring to himself as father or John calling his followers little children could mean mentor, role model, father-figure, guardian etc. that could be the context.
Why this hard for u to understand is what I can't comprehend.

All your false doctrines and fake believe will not negate the great contribution Paul made to Christian theology and christology of Jesus.

Kobojunkie:
1. Only Paul? Are you for real? The one pretending ONLY Paul here is you and no other person. The thread is regarding Sulaiman's statement regarding Paul is it not?

2. Earlier, I has explained how stewpid it was of you to attempt to justify Paul's mistake by pointing out that John made the same mistake in his letter too, did I not?

Look, if you don't have anything meaningful to add, it it ok to move on.

Jesus Christ said those who love Him are those who do as He commands -- they submit to His teachings and commandments. (Not Paul's teachings or John's or james'.) So when you claim with one side of your mouth to follow Jesus Christ yet your obedience is instead to Paul or Peter or James, don't for one second think you fool God who sees the very intentions of your heart in your deceit..

All this long shalaye is not necessary.

Jesus said do not call anyone on earth Father. Simple. If U had call anyone on earth Father then U are guilty of breaking jesus commandment

If U have ever referred to yourself as father to someone here on earth, U are as guilty as Paul U
condemning.

Making exegesis and talking about context for jesus but denying Paul same makes no sense to anybody except u.

Kobojunkie:
Wow... why do you keep clowning around for Pete's sake? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Paul literally set the context as the Kingdom of God at the beginning of everyone of his letters. 😂 He even repeatedly emphasizes that he writes to those who believe in Jesus Christ aka are born-again and hence of the Kingdom of God like numerous times in his letters.

Bring the verses here. Not interested in your bias exegesis.
Jesus word can be taken out of context but Paul's word as to be literal according to U.

This is what Jesus said... And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
U added kingdom of God out of the blues for it to fit your bias agenda.
Then U added kingdom of God again to Paul's verse again to continue your false narration.
Neither of the verses mentioned kingdom of God.

That's exactly how people twist the word of God to generate false exegesis.

Expanse2020:
that is Elijah
Yahaya mean Allah is gracious

Merry go round as usual. Why is Elijah different, is he not in the Koran.
Yahaya has no meaning in Hebrew.
I can bet U know within yourself right now U not making any sense.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ said absolutely no fathers I than the Father in Heaven in the Kingdom of God, but for the sake of Paul, you believe instead that the law given by Jesus Christ should be bent to accommodate Paul error in judgment, an act against Jesus Christ? LOL ....

Religion!

Show me where Paul said he's a father in the kingdom of God.

And show me where Jesus said absolutely no father except the father in heaven in the kingdom of God

Kobojunkie:
So which disciples repeated what John and then what Paul did?

These men are in their graves awaiting the very same judgement at the end that every follower of Jesus Christ is expected to be subjected to. So why in the world would you consider it wise to ignore Jesus Christ whom all are called to become like only to follow after his servants instead? Is it that you are convinced that if you become like Paul, you will somehow become like Jesus Christ? Basically it you become like the copy --- assuming Paul stood faithful until his last breath---' you become Jesus Christ too? ;🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

You folks probably think God is daft!

So why hang Paul by the neck for what other apostles are guilty of. Why only Paul when James and John were guilty of the same offence.
That's my point of u don't get it.

And if Paul making such statements discredit him and his letters.
Then we should do the same for John and James' letters including the gospel of John because it was written by John who disobeyed Jesus command by refering to himself as father. That means 18 out of the 27 NT books should be discarded.

Do U now see how U not making any sense?

Kobojunkie:
You are not making any sense at all. My responses are.to the point so I see no need for this epistle which does not even contain anything meaningful to parse.

[b]The context is the Kingdom of God and Jesus Christ made clear that He alone is Teacher, Shepherd, Counselor, Guide, Prophet, Master, Authority, Etc. [/b]Over all those who are His followers. He also made clear His followers are all equals in His Kingdom. So I am seriously not certain why you are having a hard time with this still.

If my biological father becomes just a brother to me when the Kingdom of God is in scope, what makes you think the issue is different for all others?

What I can deduce from your ramblings is it's ok to understand Jesus word in context but not ok to understand Paul's word in context.

It's very obvious who is not making sense. It's becoming a merry go round now.

What does Paul mean when he said he's a father to recipient of his letters. What do you actually understand by that word?

Kobojunkie:
1. I am neither a servant of Paul nor a servant of John. I am instead a servant of Jesus Christ whom both Paul and John claim they serve. So, help me understand why you resort to quoting John's letter in order to explain Paul's error against His master, Jesus Christ.


2. Jesus Christ made clear that the context of what He said was the Kingdom of God as He urged His followers to call no man on earth Father given that their only Father is the one in Heaven.

Your biological father is not of the Kingdom of God. If he were born-again, he would cease to be a father to you and become a brother in the Kingdom of God. When you communicate to him the things of the Kingdom of God you do so as though to one who is a brother — equal —to you in Jesus Christ and not a father to you in Jesus Christ. I think Jesus Christ was pretty clear about how His teachings apply only to those who are born-again and are not meant to be imposed in any way on those who are outside of the Kingdom of God.

Oh really so all of a sudden, we have to read jesus words in context but Paul's word shouldn't be read in context.
See hypocritical double standard.
When it comes to Paul, we must hold him for by the neck word for word and ignore exegesis. But for Jesus, it's ok to go to town on exegesis to explain what Jesus actually meant.
Sorry but this is a fraudulent way of explaining the scriptures. That's what Pharisees do.

That verse said nothing about kingdom of God. Jesus clearly said Do not call anyone on earth Father; show me where it mentioned kingdom of God in that verse, otherwise U are pushing words into jesus mouth.

That passage was about Jesus exposing the authoritative figure and absolute power displayed by the Pharisees against the people. A status that should be only for the Father.
In those days, the words of the religious leaders are final and U dare not challenge it. They operate within the realm of absolutism and authoritative sovereignty.
Jesus condemned such arrogance and pointed out that such power should only be to the Father in heaven.
Paul never displayed such power to any church he wrote to, instead he made it clear to them that he's a servant to all.

Kobojunkie:
3. I am not Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the master and those who are His followers — not Christians— are expected to obey His Law every moment of their every breath on this planet. The same EVERLASTING Law of Jesus Christ — never changing —applies as far as Paul, Peter, John, and every other follower of Jesus Christ. :-
\

You have not answered my question, U just waffling.
Is it wrong to call anyone Teacher here on earth? Answer the question.
Jesus said in the passage do not call anyone Teacher, U have only one Teacher who is the Messiah.

Kobojunkie:
4. I don't care for your illogical ramblings aka exegesis. My only concern here is judging all things by the standard that is Jesus Christ. You asked for evidence and I gave it to you. Either you accept Jesus Christ or you outright reject Him. You can not reject them yet claim to accept Him. That is what a contradiction is, right?

Guy rest. Everyone here knows how U twist the scriptures to support heresy. This is my first time debating with U and it's obvious u have lots of work to do.
U can't even convincingly defend your point here even though U are the one who brought it here. This shows u dont even understand what U talking about.

If U have any other problem about Paul, pls bring it here and let's enlighten u. Let's all join hands to cure ignorance in the kingdom of God.

Kobojunkie:
1. So, you resolved in your mind that because John met Jesus Christ, he could never make a mistake? Judas met Jesus Christ so following your logic, You should have no problem doing exactly as Judas did and believing everything he did was holy, right?.

Which of the other disciples repeated what Judas did?
John, James and Paul all made reference to being an earthly father or having a father on earth.

Expanse2020:
It was name after the Jesus Christ ur lord Abi🤣🤣🤣🤣

Elijah means My God is Yahweh. Why is Allah's prophet bearing the the name of a pagan god. That's my question.

Expanse2020:
What meaning of Yahweh

I AM WHO I AM which can be transliterated as TO BE

Exodus 3

14 God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

15 God also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The Lord the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’

“This is my name forever,
the name you shall call me
from generation to generation

Now the big question is if YAHWEH IS the personal name of God, how come Muhammed didn't know this name.

Kobojunkie:
1. Which do you regard my opinion on this? What Jesus Christ said or what Paul said instead?

1. John regarding some of his children DOES NOT make John right, and neither does it then make it right for any other who pretends to be a follower of Jesus Christ to repeat the same mistake. I am not sure why you felt to mention John in this since the topic is on mistakes that Paul made. Does John's repeating of the same mistake somehow justify Paul making the same mistake?

2. There is no context of what is presented in Matthew 23 vs 8 - 10 that makes a servant of Jesus Christ calling himself a father to another servant of the same Jesus Christ. You can't even begin to make that happen since Jesus Christ covered in that same context the issue of there existing no hierarchy among his own and certainly none existing above another in any way or form. Either, you accept Jesus Christ and reject all that which contravenes Him or you deny Jesus Christ and accept men and their claims as gods over you. It is as simple as that.

So John who met Jesus and heard directly from him also erred calling himself father to his followers?

I think there's nothing more to say at this junction. People can see who is making up stuffs, U or Paul.

Kobojunkie:
I don't give a hoot what Paul may have called himself. My only goal here is to uphold the Truth of God above all other claims and opinions.

Jesus Christ mentioned that all those who do the will of His Father are brothers, sisters, and mothers — no fathers.
He then followed this up by asserting in Matthew 23 vs 8 - 10 that not only are all those in His Kingdom equals, but there is also one Father above them all, and that is the Father in Heaven, commanding that they have no other father(in the Kingdom of God) except the Father above.
Jesus Christ never once projected Himself as a father over any of those in His Kingdom by the way.

2. How do you justify Paul's claims by quoting Paul himself? Did Paul claim that he worshipped himself — he was alpha and omega onto himself— or what? His supposed letters contain claims that assert that he, Paul, is a servant of Jesus Christ, and as such the next logical thing would be to judge his words by the standard that is Jesus Christ.

1. Explain this verse since it's anathema to assume the title of father in christwndom.

My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. 2 John 2.1
Why is apostle John calling his followers children thus assuming the role of father to them.

2. What do understand by this word of Jesus Christ in Matt 23.9

And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

So is it wrong to call my biological Dad father. Is that what U saying? Are u saying that Jesus meant that Christians shouldn't refer to anybody as father including their male parent? Is that how U interpreting the verse?

Jesus also said in that passage not to call anybody Teacher because we have only one Teacher and also not to call anybody Master because Messiah is the only Master.
So according to U, are we Christians expected not to call anyone father, Teacher or master according to that passage? Is that what U saying.

Seriously U need to attend real bible classes and learn real exegesis.
For a Christian U claim to be, the way U interpret the bible is alarming.

Kobojunkie:
You first need to know the teachings of Jesus Christ Himself to perceive and then understand the problems that are many of Paul's opinions.
● Paul's opinions towards women directly contradict Jesus Christ.
● His opinions regarding marriage are a violation of that explicitly stated by Jesus Christ.

Opinion doesn't count. I'm not here to discuss instructions or admonition- Paul clearly said they were his own words.
I'm here to discuss the theology of the gospel. Which one did Paul change.

Kobojunkie:
● His claim to have been a spiritual father to some in the Kingdom of God contradicts the truth as declared by Jesus Christ.

John called his followers little children inferring he's their father, and James called Abraham his father. Paul is not the only apostle guilty of assuming the status of being a father to others.
You may want to read Matthew 23.8-13 in context.

Besides Paul called himself a servant to same Corinthians he called their father.
For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them. 1 cor 9.19

Kobojunkie:
● Even his suggestion that one partner's salvation can somehow precipitate the salvation of the other in marriage is invalid.

I think U should read 1 Corinthians 7.16 b4 jumping to conclusion on household salvation.

Kobojunkie:
I can go on but the fact is Paul's supposed writings are riddled with claims that directly violate the teachings of Jesus Christ and it would take an honest eye to admit it to oneself.

I think U need to attend bible study classes more. It's very disrespectful to lift bible verses in isolation without looking at the context.

The last pastor I will listen to or take serious is someone who was accused of licking a woman's private part. Imagine being accused of such hedonistic act by same woman, a promiscuous actress known for a wayward lifestyle.

That his name is even associated with such person is enough to have him disrobed and banned from the pulpit not to talk of adulterous behaviour.

Anyway people here already confirmed Peter confirmed Paul's teaching.

People claim Paul changed the teaching of Jesus, but no one can come forward to identify what Paul preached that Jesus didn't preach.
Nobody could mention just one difference on how Paul changed Jesus teaching. Just one...

Expanse2020:
Which pagan god

Why is Elijah name My God is Yahweh' or is he not one of Allah's prophet.

PoliteActivist:
There is no such thing as "empty space", as you ought know. Seemingly empty space is full of activity. But even beyond space, nothingness still does not exist and cannot exist, hence you can't imagine it. Just as time will always exist - there'd always be now and here!

I never said nothingness exist, U insinuated it and I became curious.
Time, space, matter and energy all exist within a physical reality where emptiness cannot exist.

However, U cannot use above to define God or look for him because he exist outside the physical reality. That's the stand of theist.
He's the intelligent design that created the physical reality and properties.
However in our own physical reality; nothing cannot exist, and something cannot be made out of nothing.


Regarding time always existing, U may want to read more about multiverse and other universe that exist.

In many cosmological theories, including some versions of multiverse theories, it's postulated that other universes may have different physical constants, laws of physics, and even dimensions compared to our own universe.

In some theoretical frameworks, it's conceivable that alternative universes could have entirely different forms of existence, with different fundamental properties governing their structure and behavior.

Expanse2020:
Yahweh pagan the 3 in 1 ☕🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

You better come to this thread two to come and see how Shame de catch ur brothers on top Paul thing
https://www.nairaland.com/8005953/apostle-suleman-attacks-apostle-paul/1#128560608🤣

Explain why Allah's prophet are named after pagan gods.

Expanse2020:
Yahweh is a Pagan God

u see why debating u is waste of time.
you are intellectually inept to sustain a theological discussion. simply parotting what u told in mosque without your own cognitive input.
There's a reason God gave you brain, its for you to think and ask questions, otherwise u become a zombie.

Expanse2020:
Who stumble I told you who is yaweh
I sent you what the erudite said on Yahweh and sent you site to confirmed it yourself but you are making foul mouth without not disproof it.. go sleep jare
You wet no sabi anything

I have answers to the so called erudite claim but your knowledge of ancient history is too poor for me to engage u.

But since U hiding behind erudite scholars now. Do U believe them when they say the cruxifixion of Jesus Christ is factual and historic.
Do u believe the same erudite scholars when they say Jesus was actually crucified. The same ones who said Yahweh is a pagan god.

Finally explain why one of Allah's prophet is called 'My God is Yahweh'

PoliteActivist:
We don't know the ultimate nature of vacuum energy, but whatever it is, we know it is possible it has always been there - especially since it is the energy in "nothing"!

Bring scientific evidence that states vacuum energy exist in nothing.
because principles quantum mechanics disagree with U. Vacuum energy doesn't exist in a real empty space.

Expanse2020:
Let me bring the verse again and tell me ur repsonse

Expanse2020 go and learn from honesttalk, he's an intelligent muslim guy. I may not agree with him but I respect him.

u came here running your mouth claiming Yahweh is pagan but when we challenged the claim u stumbled and ran away.
u talk too much and majority of what u say is nonsense and careless utterances. for someone who claim to be a theist, that's very unwise.
u could barely defend any of the claims u brought here, just waffling and loquacious.

I will advised u to study your religion first because u dont know anything about it. Then take time to study the bible or other religious books...before coming to debate other theists on their faith and believe.

As I see, the only thing u are useful for in Islam right now is a willing tool that can be used to commit murder or instigate violence when someone insults Mohamed or koran.
You are nothing more than the above.

dazzlingd:
You sound like a teenager just learning use of words. You spend your entire energy here, looking for who to engage and keep you busy. Are you that jobless? I don't even know you existed until I log on here to Nairaland to see your miserable mentions. Go get a life man! you sound retardedd

see this one, because he has small change he thinks he can talk.
who is talking like a teenager....u came here and talking about someone being poor.
u will know those who dine and wined with poverty until God showed them mercy and now bragging about their small change. if that's not teenager talk i dont know what it is.
your existence is no business of mine, that's btw u and God- whether u believe in him or not. whether u come to nairaland or not is not my business either.
just learn to shut up, that's my business.

PoliteActivist:
Well, atheists reply that if God can come into existence by himself, so can vacuum energy which gave rise to big bang and the universe

Is energy physical? can it be perceived and controlled within out own realm of physical dimension?

dazzlingd:
I am not sure you have barely eating well. You are poor and suffering in all aspect, yet you fight for your god, nothing good comes out of it. You don't achieve your dreams, you suffering on earth thinking you will die to enter heaven, yet heaven is not sure for you. You will suffer on this earth, die and suffer in the after life again. I don't envy you at all, your ignorance stinks darker than a black hole

except u Bill Gate or Mark zuckenberg, then the stinking small change u think u have isn't my headache. use it to care for your family if u have one.
u are not in any position to tell who's poor or not because u are no better than a poor person financially. your small change is filth in the eyes of another.

we here to discuss the poor intellect in your cerebrum. Learn to shut up because u no different from other atheist I know. I'm not someone u can intimidate with knowledge and facts. I will chew u and spit u out.

Maynthemayn:
Son of a Worthless Jewish slave worshipping the god of Israel and basing his worthless life on it.

If your father had a dignity up to a pig, you would not abuse other people's father.

Hahaha. Failure of a father and son.
Even if your father trained U well, he would have taught u ego.
Your lack of ego is the reason why your father is a big fool.
People with ego protect the dignity of their parents.
Wasted fool.

Maynthemayn:
Your father is a worthless Jewish slave basing his life on a man that is birth and death is unknown.

He already knows so no need to tell him

Your smello fagg.ot father is is a failure. The evidence is U.
Were who wouldn't mind turning his father to pig just for likes.

Maynthemayn:
Your stupidity stinks truly.

The 'earthquake' mentioned solely in the Gospel of Matthew doesn't necessarily mean earthquake magnitude but rather a shaking/commotion or disturbance. Go look up the greek word.

Let us even disregard the linguistic analysis, and use common sense: had an earthquake truly occurred, Joseph of Arimathea wouldn't have proceeded to ask Pilate for jesus body that same evening. Also, Pilate, having witnessed such extraordinary EARTHQUAKE, wouldn't have released Jesus' body just like that, that same evening. Also note that neither the Pharisees nor anyone else mentioned the earthquake when they met with Pilate.
Additionally, if the Pharisees had witnessed resurrected corpses roaming the city, why would they bother securing the tomb with soldiers?

Why you so credulous?

Your father is a bastard. Tell him I said so.

dazzlingd:
Give me the day I’d be embarrassed.
Replying you is a waste of energy by the way, your stupidity stinks so bad

Continue poking your nose into what's not your business.
Your stupidity will be badly exposed.

Expanse2020:
Ehen so tell me every Muslim always read bible before reading Quran 😂🤣🤣😂😂😂😂
I will like you to proof it to me óò
Who came first óò you may enlightening me if it is Moses OOO😂🤣🤣🤣
Abraham came first Abi you see another verse that said Moses was the first man in your own Quran too, 🤣🤣🤣🤣
We hear every Xtians are now getting There own copy of the Quran t😂😂😂😂

How did U know Abraham came first b4 Moses. Show me the verse in the Koran that gave u that knowledge/insight that Abraham existed b4 Moses.
That's my question, not all these meaningless rant.

I want to prove to U that without the bible your Koran makes no sense.