Goshen360:

On the above, lemme ask you a question. If a man and a woman is committed to marrying one another with consent and from both parents but have not yet married, having pre-marriage s.ex or making love to one another; is that a fornication that is, is that an illicit s.ex?

@Goshen,
You have already answered your question. It is pre-marital sex.

S.ex. within marriage is the only God-approved intimacy, so if you are equating parental consent to mean marriage and the parents agree that you both are married (not going to marry o), the bride too knows she is married, then you are married. In today's world, people take a step further to get court and church validations.

But if you guys and family are thinking of holding a wedding, just as Christ attended one, and it is in that wedding that you and your small world can attest that you are married, then any act of intimacy before it is sin.

Summary, sex is only approved in marriage by God. That is what you have been told here on and on. All these bringing scenarios into it will not help you.

Goshen360: ^ Ahhhhhhhhh, I now see people have misunderstood me or perhaps misunderstood okeyxyz. Okay, I will explain my point or myself for clarity and record purpose. Give me like 2 hours, I have to quickly do some assignment right now okay, my brother. I will be back. Thanks

Goshen,
How does someone misunderstand you and okeyxyz who basically said:

1. There is no sin when two unmarried consenting adults have intimacy So in other words you mean nothing wrong in two grown siblings being intimate as well.

2. There is no sin if a man or woman allows his spouse to have sex with someone else, 'afterall a man and woman have no authority over their bodies'

This is disturbing coming from a supposed christian!!!

@Mr Anony, Goshen and okeyxyz have settled it within themselves already

Snowwy: @OP and all,
I will like to get this straight because all I have read so far does not in anyway explain if sex outside marriage is a sin or not:

1. Is sex between two unmarried consenting adults a sin?

okeyxyz:
Simply NO!!

Snowwy:
Really?
Goshen, do you agree with this?

Goshen360:
To answer your question, YES, I agree to okeyxyz's answer except for the definition of 'fornication' as seen - if there's consented s.ex between an unmarried and a married or unmarried prosti.tute (because prosti.tution is illicit), it is a sin; otherwise, NO, not a sin.

Goshen360:

Okay brother. You know I will always apologize for any misuse of words in the course of our discussion. I'm sorry for the 'religious' name calling. Well, I'm NOT sanctioning illicit se.x here - let that be very clear. I'm only saying NOWHERE does the meaning of 'fornication' in ANY CONTEXTUAL usage mean s.ex between unmarried people. All I expected you to do is, take a little time like 2-3 hours. If you have Strong's concordance and look up every occurrence of the word 'fornication' and then come back to tell us what you found out.

Here is Online Bible Strong's concordance and dictionary: http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.cfm

Get all the usage and see if fornication means s.ex between two unmarried people. Again, an unmarried person can commit sexual immorality - that's if it involves illicit or unlawful s.ex perhaps involving prosti.tution and harlot. etc

@Goshen,
I DO NOT need Strongs concordance to define fornication to me because NOWHERE does God condone sex outside the sanctity of marriage for the Church. NOWHERE!
We are talking about sex outside marriage as sin, you are stuck on the word fornication and your previous beliefs on it.

All your semantics on fornication is based on Strongs, meanwhile the Spirit and the Word has said to AVOID FORNICATION, let everyone have their own spouse and if you cannot contain your sexual urges, MARRY O! rather than burn with passion. I really do not know what else you want.

How you can say sex outside marriage is OK as long as its not with a prostitute beats me!
You are walking on the high road and it is sad to watch.

@Goshen,
Something that will help you, I will advise you not to label people as religious because they give their own opinion. You are doing exactly what you claim 'religious' people do. I also wonder why you claim people are 'crucifying'.
I am even amazed at the coolness of the thread.
Since you have now gained some new wisdom, you need to explain that in light of th scripture which I can see you are hereby looking for another definition for.

Goshen360:

Okay! Sorry I misquoted you. Okay, I'm sorry. What is 'fornication'? Whatever is your definition, kindly tell us how you come to such definitions.

Goshen, re-read my entire post to the OP and see the context fornication was used in the BIBLE verses. No, I will not 'define' it, let the bible do that afterall you have always been someone who claimed to follow the bible and disregard 'religious' teaching.
So let's leave aside 'religious' or 'dictionary' definitions.


I am still wondering why you will say that you want a 'definition of 'fornication' other than the biblical meaning'.

Goshen360:

You said 'fornication' means s.ex between unmarried people? How and where did you get that definition? That's all I want sir

Really? Where did I say that?
Please quote me because I am not sure I remember saying that?

Goshen360: @ striktlymi and everyone,

Let's not look at the definition or meaning of 'fornication' from the 'religious' definition. The question still unanswered by you all is - what is biblical meaning of 'fornication'.

All I'm saying is somebody should give us a definition of 'fornication' other than the biblical meaning.

What exactly do you want?

@OP,
Who told you sex is a sin? Far from it. Sex is not a sin at all as God created it for pleasure and procreation between a man and his wife.
That is why you hear the word bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh

Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Gen 2:24

The cleaving or joining that makes them one flesh is consummated in the sexual union.

The union of marriage is usually best honoured by the father or other parent conceeding their daughter to the man. If you read many OT scriptures you will see this clearly stated. Hence it is usually important for this to occur.

God places high honour on the marital bed so we see in

Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; [t]but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.Hebrews 13:4

Who are the fornicators?

2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn
I Cor 7:2,9

It is obvious that any sexual encounter between a man and woman outside marriage is a sin and will be judged. Never undermine this please.

What about adultery?

But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband! Ezekiel 16:32

Anyone that has sex with anyone apart from his spouse whether spouse-permissive or not is an adulterer.
This is a sin against the Almighty God and not just against the husband.

Therefore, sex is not a sin. But any sex outside of marriage is. May the Holy Spirit complete the rest in you.
Peace.

Goshen360:

My brother, please go find biblical word meaning to the word 'fornication' as see for yourself. Forget what the religious meaning said it is. That's what I've done. It will change your concept.

To answer your question, YES, I agree to okeyxyz's answer except for the definition of 'fornication' as seen - if there's consented s.ex between an unmarried and a married or unmarried prosti.tute, it is a sin; otherwise, NO, not a sin.

Thanks, no further questions.

okeyxyz:
Simply NO!!

Really?
Goshen, do you agree with this?

okeyxyz:
If their marriage partner consents to it, then fine, otherwise it's adultery.
The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does(1 cor 7:4 )

Waow!
In other words, the authority here is for the man or woman to sleep around as long as the spouse is not bothered or accepts?

@Frosbel,
To whom much is given, much is expected. Greater condemnation comes to those who know what to do but don't. That is why the bible says judgement will start from the house of God.
Jesus came to for sinners but if they reject Him, they are condemned also however the grace of God gives time for sinners to repent.

@OP and all,
I will like to get this straight because all I have read so far does not in anyway explain if sex outside marriage is a sin or not:

1. Is sex between two unmarried consenting adults a sin?

2. Is it a sin for a married man or woman to have consenting sex with someone other than the spouse?

Thank you.

@Joagbaje,
What about when you had to jam your hands together to pray. Methinks it is a sign of supplication. Whatever works to keep you focused.

FXKing2012: @snowwy, truthfully I question your understanding of the Bible. Do you really know why we even have the OT in the Bible when we actually live in the new testament? Many of the things in the OT dont apply to us today such as animal sacrifice, the Mosaic law, etc.

The OT was written and included in the Bible for our learning; it is there for us to know where we are coming from as Christians.
There is the need to fully understand why we have the OT in order to know how and when to quote it.

2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

You need to pray for the Spirit of understanding.

2 Timothy 3:16
ALL Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

Please refrain from creating a new doctrine of not quoting the OT. It is a doctrine of the devil.

omonori1:


Umm
I should have posted this topic in the romance section

Its being in the religion section is even the reason why some of us even bothered to comment at all.

^^^^^^
Is your question on what I believe in, which I sought clarity on or are you on a fact finding mission of those who claim to be virgins or not?

So as not to lengthen this much further, I believe in sex for the married only. This answers both your question and the one I asked to clarify. I need not be a muslim or christian to know the morals of giving ones body strictly to the spouse, even good parents tell their children so. It is not just a christian injunction, morals have just been thrown out of the window in todays world.

And why have you been asking people if they are virgins or not? Do you think everyone on NL is single?
May be you should rephrase your topic.

Sex before marriage is either done wilfully which is fornication or forced which is rape. Are you asking if I believe in fornication or rape?

James 5:16 also talks about confessing sins one to another for healing.
One needs not wait for death bed confessions of some sins anyway. It just makes the heart less burdened especially if you have a very strong conscience.

There is a peace that comes with coming clean of one's wrongdoing. And restitution is not limited to just unbelievers. If you tell a lie that puts someone in trouble or even jail, do you think asking forgiveness from God alone will make it good? If you ask God for forgiveness and refuse to own up, it means one is not loving his neighbour.
There are sins that have consequences and some that one gets off lightly.
Someone cannot knock down a pedestrian and he escapes claiming he has asked for forgiveness.

I have had instances where I had to make restitution even as a teenager because I lied or took something without telling the owner.
God has given us a conscience not just to ask for forgiveness from him when we do wrong but also to work out the free gift of salvation he has given us.
Acts 24:16 talks about a clear conscience towards God and man. Also Romans 13:5; I Timothy 1:5,19.

Some restitutions just have to be done for conscience sake.

To give a twist to those who are talking about marriage restitution, anytime someone causes another woman to be kicked out of her matrimonial home whether in ignorance or delibrately so she can take over, if she truly is repentant, she will leave the man for the rightful owner to return. The children they may have between them does not change anything, the man remains their father.
If the rightful owner has remarried, the usurper will still have to beg the woman for forgiveness and whichever way it is resolved is left to them to handle.
But not all cases may be this clear-cut.

Frankly speaking @OP, I am quite disappointed at the way you started and handled this topic.
Some valid points were raised that you could have done better justice to than saying that the OT should not be quoted.
It will be very hypocritical of you to have the OT as part of your bible then.
Please prayerfully seek for insight in the word of God which is documented in the whole 66 books of the bible. Stop taking away from the scriptures.

@God2man,
May the Lord bless you for this post. This can only be from God.

^^^^^^^^
Word!
Be anxious for nothing but in everything by prayer and supplication make your requests known unto God.
All is vanity hence God knows those things we need to fulfil His purpose in our lives.

Amazing. True signs of the end time. Amen, may the Lord keep us standing.

The bible and the Holy Spirit, who will teach us ALL things, is sufficient for Christians. That is why our mind needs to be renewed all the time and our thoughts pure to be a good ground to hear the teaching of the Holy Spirit. His presence makes the scriptures come alive and sheds greater light.

@OP,
That is a deep question. I think we can try make it simple.
We can draw different theories of what might have been but since the bible is our source let us look the scriptures below:


Genesis 5:1-5
1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them,and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: 4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

Note the scriptural interplay with 'him' and 'them' in reference to Adam (plural) and Adam (singular).
Also note that Abraham had more sons and daughters.

Your question made me go back to the creation story and I am still waiting to get perfect insight of Genesis 1 linked to Genesis 5. I think the scripture above can help us study more to understand your question. It requires more study anyway.

This is simply
Are we truly thankful? Do we thank God in all situations?
Thought and action provoking read.
Thank you Lord God for you are good.

^^^^^
Thanks, I was shocked to be immediately linked to the service by radio. And it is so clear.

@sunnshyn,
Please display the internet link? And what time is the program starting? Pls list table of events.
Thanks.

Great message highyo. He that has an ear let him hear.
I pray we receive the grace to be more God-focused than ever.

Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Believing and confession work hand in hand.
I think that is why besides the fact that Abram believed what God said, God has to change his name to Abraham and his wife's name to Sarah so they would keep confessing what God told Abraham. Amazing!

Thanks Jo, that ministered to me.

Am just me: Do u tithe a loan?

No. The loan is not yours. You have to pay back.