okeyxyz:

Before the death of christ, there were two opposing personalities(consciences) in man. The natural man with his natural instincts and desires and The Law which restrained(either totally or with conditions) you from indulging in your natural conscience, whether food, drink, se.x, clothes, music, creativity, knowledge, etc(...for the earth is the lord's and it's fullness thereof -1 Cor 10:26). The law was the "accuser", the tool used by the devil to defeat man(for the power of sin is the law -1 Cor 15:56). So now that the law is abolished, there is only the one man, reconciled with himself and his "rights". Therefore everything in nature is good and given by god to be learnt and enjoyed by man, without the law to "accuse" you of committing sin.

Hello Okeyxyz, Thanks for the response.
Did you do a pre-read of the verses that cumulated into Epehsians 2:15 and after that? Here, let me paste for you from Epehesians 2:11-17.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Kindly note the bolded, the enmity being talked about is nothing other than the 'wall' between the Jews and the Gentiles. Just like people hated the Samaritans and did not even talk to them but Jesus did. Jesus has now made peace due to the oneness of all who believe in Him. We are now one body in Christ. That is the peace.
That was what this scripture was talking about.
We all have access to Christ now regardless of those things that set the Jews apart like circumcision, things they should not taste or touch etc.
Paul (a jew) was talking to the Ephesians church (Gentile nation) that they are now one so all the commandments that set Jews aside from Gentiles has been abolished by Christ.
We are now one in Him.

@Joagbaje,
My little submission above. I would prefer the viewers read and understand it themselves that this is clearly nothing regarding abolishing the laws of God. Simply abolishing the 'Law of Commandments in Ordinances' that created the enmity/wall between the Jew and the Gentile. Please do your own study.

Congrats r231,
God be praised for the enablement and priviledge to help. May the Lord help us channel our resources for mankind.
Weldone.

Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace

@Joagbaje,
Your topic title and scripture do not seem to match.
Your opening scripture clearly states that Christ has abolished in His flesh the enmity, which is the:

'law of commandments CONTAINED in ordinances'

I would have assumed you would have explained what the enmity is and examples of such ordinances which caused the enmity.
I would like to read more on this from you, possibly you still have more to add.
There is actually a lot of history in that verse as Christ made in himself of two, one new man and made peace. Peace between who? Lots of questions to be answered to do justice to the OP scripture.

^^^^
I maintain there is nothing to discuss on this. Our concern should be teh people and not death or hades.

The lake of fire is a place torment for all that will be in it. Death and hell will be cast into it. It is not hard to understand. If you have any contrary view that they will not be tormented then provide, else leave matter.

If Frosbel can say the lake of fire's torment is not eternal despite all the scriptures provided, but rather go with oxford dictionary then I am not surprised at whatever you can say.

I can see all you want is argument and I will not be drawn into it.
If your bible tells you they will not be tormented being in the lake of fire (a place of eternal punishment, contempt, torment) then so be it.
I am done here.

frosbel:

Stop getting yourself all worked up , Lady.

I was like you till a few months ago when I removed the hat of tradition and churchianity and replaced it with my thinking hat .

Hell is not forever, it might be in your bible , but I can't find it anywhere in my bible !!

Frosbel, let me respond to your comment here and the previous, It is not a matter of obssession but of what is in the bible.

Just like you can never wrap your head around the love, mercy and grace of God, in the same way your 'thinking cap' can never fathom His wrath.

The lake of fire is reserved for the devil and his angels and that is where the full wrath of God will be diplayed.

Your prayer now should be never to depart from God and also win many souls from going there. This is not tradition or churchianity, it is God's word and I expect you to know better.....this is how the descent to aethism starts.


May be you have not read your bible up to here:

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Daniel 12:2).

"... the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation"
(John 5:28-29).

"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels"
(Matthew 25:41-46)

"The lake of fire is the second death" (Revelation 20:14b)

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Revelation 21:8.)

"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."
(Revelation 14:11)

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
(Revelation 20:10)

If God could turn his back on His Son who was bearing the sins of the world on the cross due to the devil, you think eternal torment of those who reject this free gift is not real?
You think the lake of fire will not torment those that did not make heaven day and night forever?


May God have mercy on us. His love cannot be fathomed and so is His anger.


@Ijawkid,
It should not be hard to understand all that has been said about the lake of fire by the bible...if explicitly stated and you cannot understand, my words won't make you understand.


This should not even be up for argument.
This should make us know that God has given us a perfect escape from this and we should escape and pull many from going there too.

seriallink:

Your post is very funny! You got the wrong guy bro. Go back and read your bible very well!

Are you saying God will give sinners eternal life in hell? They will not die but live in hell for eternity Are humans immortals?

We can see who has not been reading their bibles.

Read Revelation 14:9-11, Revelation 20:10

If that is not enough for you to understand we are not here for child's play then I cannot help you.
Nice day.

seriallink:

What he meant is second death. That's to die eternally not to be tortured eternally like what Sis desiree wrote up there!

No one 'dies' eternally. Read the very scripture I quoted from revelation 20:14-15. The second death is the Lake of fire and that in itself is eternal torment.

Christianity is not a walk in the park...you have the opportunity to live right now and repent when you sin, do not wait till after death, I beg of you.

frosbel:

Man is a living soul and a mortal one at that.

When he dies he is dead , waiting for the final resurrection and judgement.

If after the judgement he is not found worthy of eternal life aka immortality , he will be condemned to an eternal death in the lake of fire.

I advice that you consider this TRUTH and desist from misrepresenting the character of GOD.

Frosbel,
You are funny, I am not surprised that you have turned it to 'misrepresenting the character of God' now since all you have quoted so far is the Oxford dictionary.

I leave you with this from the words of the saviour:

Luke 13:3:
'I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish'

It is left to you to decide what that means...from the bible of course.
Cheers.

frosbel:

The English bible was translated from Latin, Greek and Hebrew, using words and terms that closely and more accurately reflected the intent of the authors and meaning of words from the original languages.

Not sure why you are now attempting to redefine the English language to fit into your 'lovely' eternal torment doctrine.

In the bible perish means perish and death means death.

Simply put, when the bible says that a person will die/perish because he sins and did not repent, you Frosbel, using the oxford dictionary terms that to mean he just dies in his body? That is his final consequence, right? Just physical death.
*Amazing*

Wish you luck in your new-age religion.

frosbel: Definition of perish
verb
[no object]
1 literary die, especially in a violent or sudden way:
a great part of his army perished of hunger and disease
suffer complete ruin or destruction:


http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/perish

Simple question Frosbel, does perish in the bible mean physical death or eternal death?

frosbel:
As we speak many are suffering the consequences of their sin and for those who have not , there is a day of judgement and punishment.

The gospel is repent or perish, not repent or be eternally tormented.

Let us stick with the bible and throw away tradition.

Frosbel,
I have come to realise that when people have any issue with something that is in the bible that they do not believe and it something held for a long while they call it 'tradition'.

As usual, Frosbel claims I should stick to the bible and throw away tradition.

What does perish mean to you?

Bible says that for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whoever believes in Him should NOT PERISH but have everlasting life.

Does the perish you see here mean physical death or spiritual death? I know you have heard of the Second death, what does that mean to you? Read Revelation 20:14-15.

If the lake of fire is the second death and those whose names are not found in the book of life are thrown into it, is that not perishing and eternal torment?

I can see you now want to start preaching a message of repent or you perish here on earth only.

Frosbel,
I am yet to understand what you are trying to prove by your comment after the write-up.
Are you saying, therefore, that any one that tells the consequences of sin being hell-fire and eternal damnation are 'false' teachers? Or you mean Jesus and Paul never said anything about hell?

Do you mean there was nowhere stated in the NT of the consequences of a life of sin?
God gives everyone 'a long rope to pull' as He does not take pleasure in anyone perishing but calls all to repentance and that is why He has given the free gift of His Son, Jesus Christ.

God is not wicked, He is just but He cannot BEHOLD EVIL!!!!! His Son acts as this shield to the evil of the world as long as we trust in Him and live by His grace and shun evil practices, so I think the lady just needs proper education, simple.

Faith is when Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were about to be thrown into the fire, yet they said that they know that God is able to save them from the fire and even if God accepts that they perish in that fire, they will still not go against God.
That is Faith!

@OP,
I believe that logic many times cannot come into play with God's instructions. However, you could say the average Nigerian is used to insulting people so it goes beyond whether Christians, Muslims, atheists etc arguing logically or not.
Going through lots of posts on NL, you would know those who argue with so much insults, anger and bitterness and those who will never resort to that. For me, it depends on the individual and generally how they relate in their every day life.

If I do not buy your views but repsect your view and I give mine and you refuse to respect it, I just ignore you.

The issue of tithe has been expounded here time and time again and its a continuous cycle of insults, name-calling and this actually has come from those who do not tithe contrary to your allegation above.
Just take another look at such threads.

Besides tithe, many prove they know everything more than others and a such those do not have a say in the matter.

A good example to know those lurking and waiting for opportunities to insult is that they barge into a thread as soon as they see the person they have been waiting for and rather than face the topic, they start castigating like it is their ministry on earth.


We needn't make enemies of everyone that doesn't share the same views with us. We should all learn and chose to share our views in love and with respect.

@OP,
I would not discourage you from going but If you are so bent on travelling to the UK, why don't you collect the 800k from your sister and process yourself with the original documents that you have?

Adding in the comment box towards the end of the form your intent to visit and also study the place for business intentions. These guys read these things and you may just say something that will strike a cord of compassion in their heart.

As someone said here use 22k for the visa application fee, keep about N180k for ticket (when/if they approve) and put the remaining N600k in your business account and submit your forms to the visa office then go on fasting and prayer (lol) like someone here said....the visa officer may wake up on the right side of the bed and just grant you a tourist visa.

And in the event they even reject it, your money is still intact for other things.

If you go ahead to apply I would advise you request to spend a week or 2 weeks max and ensure you return in that time then you can travel again since they would give you a 6month visa.

Al I said above is for you to go see how the place is and probably later apply for longer stay visa and you could get it.

@Purist,
Lets not clamour for what is not good. The homo bit was just a twist that was given so people could learn to understand that being dispossessed of ones material possessions is totally different from the violation of one's body/dignity, FORCEFULLY.

Even for some, their being dispossessed of their belongings is traumatic enough. Take for example the Egyptian who set himself on fire to protest the govt officials that took away his source of livelihood. Wasn't that what was caused the Egyptian uprising? And to think that is a man who 'self-inflicted' when his dignity was battered.

flanrey:
You simply lack the ability to reason properly, I shake my head for the likes of you. When you read the story; •Did it make reference to her male companion?
•Did it indicate that the choice of action of her male companion resulted in her death?
•Maybe her male companion should have assumed the heroic role and grabbed the gun from the thieves.
Read your bible properly and you will come across the part where it says "Before everyone are life and death, We have the power to choose our behavior and we are responsible for both the good and evil

Sirach 15:17

No point discussing it further.
If you can maintain that she should have allowed them have a 'q*uickie' with her than for her to get killed it just shows its a pointless argument.
Would you allow yourself to be r*aped by a homosexual in a freak robbery or resist it? I can see you carefully did not respond to that part of my last comment.
Her sin now is that she resisted them....she should have opened her legs wide without any protest.
Gosh are you even for real?


To conclude, try study your bible to know Sirach isn't in te 66 books and that that statement in choosing life or death isn't in the physical sense. Choose to live for God or face eternal destruction.
From what you have linked to the bible, its her fault she is dead right?
Wonder why I bothered.

It is amazing that most of the people responding that she could have 'succumbed' or 'allowed' them are male.

@flanrey, she should have allowed them have a quickie right? If it was your wife or sister, i guess you would have allowed them have their way since afterall, all things heal overtime.

If you would allow such to happen to any member of your family IN YOUR PRESENCE then may be she should have 'succumbed'.

Lets even switch situations? If the robbers decided to have 'a.n.a*l\' or 'o.r.a.l/' with a guy, should he accept?

Really shake my head at the comments of you guys....

@E_Monkey,
I can see that your questions are being answeredby @Crazyman and @Reyginus.

However I will wish to add that your major gain in being a Christian is ETERNAL LIFE. Jesus said He is THE way, THE truth and THE life.
You only truely begin living eternity when you receive Christ.
Then you become a son of the Kingdom of God.
The kingdom of God is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost.
The only righteousness that is acceptable is Christs, without Christ good acts are simply moral.

When God created man in the beginning, He wanted to enjoy mans fellowship but this was broken when man followed the Devil. God had to lay down rules I.e. His laws for man to follow but these laws were too hard for man to keep even if they had the best intentions to do so.

God had to send His Son to live with man so as to understand the nature of flesh and die for the sins of man to atone since he lived blameless. This was a bridge to restore God/mans relationship and also for Christ to be out advocate.

Therefore, wrnwe accept Christ, He lives through us and we can follow Gods perfect laws and inherit eternal life.

I pray God opens your eyes to see the beauty of His gift to the world and accept Him.

Thanks @OP,
Indeed while we are still alive,we must give God praise. Let everything tht has breath praise the Lord. Amen.

Mr_Anony:

Wow dude, why don't you just read what he is saying then point out specific parts that you feel are not in line with scripture and then he can explain himself. Attacking him merely because he didn't say "it is written" and "thus says the Lord" enough times for you is just not the way to go.

Hi Anony,
I am sorry if I sounded like I was attacking Ihe.
If you understand where I am coming from quoting scripture is not the issue, its the essence of the topic.

What I tried to pass accross was that why would someone claim there are errors in the church and seek to prove without quoting scripture to back his claim....

I also wonder why he wants people to quote scriptures for us 'to see what he will do with it' when he is not backing each pointing of error with scripture. This is to ensure one doesn't fall into same error.

Anyway to each his own.

Ihedinobi:

Do believe me when I say that you appear bent on starting an argument with me. Your comments prove that you didn't read my posts. Nor did you read my opening post at the beginning of the thread. I encourage you to do so.

Secondly, and finally, these Bereans you keep alluding to, did they prove something they taught or something that they were taught against the Scriptures? I didn't come here to start another roundabout argument. I had my fill before I started this thread. I will not give Scriptures in this treatment because I am not developing an argument at all. I am only exhorting my brothers and sisters and showing something to them. I will only bother with proving things when someone asks me to reconcile what I am saying with a portion or portions of the Scriptures that appear in disagreement with my address. If you cannot understand this, then I won't bother explaining again.

Read the whole thread, my friend. You'll be far better positioned then to address what I am saying.

Arguments with you? Naaaaa.
There are better things that arguing with someone who claims to wanna prove and show something to other brethren by using sense knowledge.

A topic like this raised by a supposed Christian should not lack the meat of the word. Its a strong allegation against the churh and needs proper evidence.

Even Jesus proved His sayings using the Word of His Father.....it is written.....how much more you.

I maintain the topic is misleading as I had assume it was raised by a berean.

[color=#990000][/color]

Ihedinobi:

I have found proven time and again that those who keep demanding Scriptures are those who just want arguments that they will never give the time of day. If you are a Christian, then you have some idea what the Bible says. If I say things that you feel do not correspond with the Spirit of the Lord, you should be able to open the Bible to prove to yourself that they indeed do not agree with the Bible and then call me on them.

Moreover, I am developing a thought. If you did indeed read the whole thread, you'd see that I'm going somewhere with what I am saying and haven't got there yet. It's not very ok to stop me midway demanding for proof for this and that.

Again I say, be the Berean and prove to yourself that these things are or are not what they say they are and, when I have finished what I am addressing, show me the Scriptures that you think disagree with me and see what I do with them. If I do well, then receive my words. If I don't, by all means throw them out and feel free to let everybody know that I cannot be trusted with the Word of Truth.

Hello Ihedinobi,
On the contrary, I thought you were the one trying to be the berean Christian here when you titled the thread 'Truth and Error in The Church, Proving All things...'. What are you proving all things against? Is it not meant to be the word of God in the first place.....

Brother, do not put the cart before the horse....if you come here to preach your own message that is ok....no issues but do not come and say you are trying to prove all things using head/sense knowledge. You do not expect those that you intend to pass the message to do the work for you. Oh, I remember you said you do not care if people believe you anyways.

Besides, its been proven that when people come without scriptures and paste a message expecting rebuttals....they are waiting for arguments as well.


If you indeed are a Christian and you raise a topic like this, you prove it with God's word...very simple. The bereans proved what they heard by the word of God...Acts 17:11....It is funny telling people to be like the bereans when you have refused to do that.

Wish you luck in your quest anyway cos its threads like this that do generate the strife you are claiming to avoid.
Cheers.

Acts 17:11 is a scriptural reference when trying to raise a topic like this.

Ihedinobi:

Sorry. This is how I write. I don't really need people to believe me. If any true Christian reads me, he'll whip his Bible out. That's the idea.

If you who intend to prove the truth and errors in the church without scriptural references yourself I sure wouldn't listen to your sense knowledge.

And to think you bolded @truthislight's comment below without you yourself agreeing to what you bolded by proving your claims with the word. Or what is the essence of this write-up?

Maybe you should retitle your thread cos obviously its misleading.

@Ihedinobi,
It will be nice if you back all your write-up with the word of God and sound scriptures as its clearly lacking in your posts. Thanks.

Isn't it amazing that the OP's cut and paste clearly depicts his own attributes as a nigerian pastor himself. I can see the 4 fingers clearly pointing back at him.

Waow thanks Jesoul for taking the time to paste this message.
It would be a pity if it is true that the minister was not called back because the youths were shocked.

This message should be a daily wake-up call for all we Christians as we are not called to live a 'sunday best' Christianity but to get into work clothes and walk and work for/with the Lord.
The laws of the Lord God are indeed timeless and only Jesus Christ can make us be truly born of water and of the spirit so that the righteous requirements of the law may indeed be fulfilled in us and so we can enter the kingdom of heaven and reign with Christ.

We cannot give to God that which doesn't cost us anything hence our Christians lives should be a continual life of service and sacrifice to Him who died to ensure we are reconciled back to God and this means we will be different, we will be teased, abused, beaten, insulted, killed daily but in all these we are more than conquerors.
Amen.

Science really needs to know where to draw the line.
In Genesis 1:28, God created man in his own image...and God commanded us to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth and subdue THE EARTH.

He gave us dominion over every living thing that moves on the earth except ourselves.

It is plainly obvious, we can 'toy' with any other thing except ourselves. Man does not have the right to have dominion over any other being as they are sacred.

The manipulation of the human egg/sperm to create a SUPER human is gross disrespect to God in my opinion and its attendant consequences will be painful.

Imagine it being a sin to be ugly or fat or have any slight difference from the 'beautiful people of the world'. Imagine a world full or strictly blond or blue-haired girls and masculine mitchelin-like men due to these vain procedures to create designer babies...

God is really patient sha

God bless NCCF.
Their presence in every state makes new corpers feel @ home. They even sent their older corpers to accompany new and scared corpers to their places of primary assignment.
I cannot even begin to explain how much love I experienced through NCCF when I was a corper. It is indeed a family of God.
They always welcome all with open arms and I started giving firstfruit offering through what I learnt in NCCF.
They are simply amazing.

@OP,
Indeed thought and action provoking.
Even Moses hands were helped up by Hur and Aaron.
Exodus 17:12.

Thank God for the grace to give tithe, offerings, help those around you and see their sunny faces filled with happinness and send donations to people you may never even meet. It's a heart thing.
This continual back and forth on whether or not to give tithe (despite all scripture provided) is just so weak.