You claimed to ask me a 'simple' question to answer yes or no to, I answered just as you said and gave brief explanation and you hve been chasing me that I did not answer you? Only because it is contrary to your opinion it is fraudulent?
Wonders, so you have been lying that I did not answer all this while?

Did you see where I said I will ask you a question? Ofcourse not, you will not.

You are dodging answering my question right? You blatantly lied against God's word which I showed you and you are skirting the whole subject?

Since you cannot answer that question I asked, I know in your heart that you are seeing your folly. So the only lies against tithe are those you are peddling even in the light of scripture.
I have no further comment on this matter.

You claimed to ask me a 'simple' question to answer yes or no to, I answered just as you said and gave brief explanation and you hve been chasing me that I did not answer you? Only because it is contrary to your opinion it is fraudulent?
Wonders, so you have been lying that I did not answer all this while?

Did you see where I said I will ask you a question? Ofcourse not, you will not.

You are dodging answering my question right? You blatantly lied against God's word which I showed you and you are skirting the whole subject?

Since you cannot answer that question I asked, I know in your heart tht you are seeing your folly. So the only lies against tithe ar those you are peddling even in the light of scripture.
I have no further comment on this matter.

Goshen360: ^
And you answered my very own question too? You don't answer other's questions but wants others (me) to answer your question? You can now see why I deliberately left your question unanswered. Are you ready to answer my question also?

Go back to the thread where you asked me the question, PATIENTLY scan the posts after you asked me the question, read my answer then come back here to confirm that you raised a false allegation against me then answer my question above.
That is fair enough.
Thank you.

Goshen360:

You see what I was talking about? Go on and on with you tithing lies. Everywhere tithing is instructed, it was specific and mentioned. You're here quoting 1 Cor. 9:14, Did Apostle Paul ever used the word tithe in that context? Your mind is closed and anything we discuss is already made up in your mind so why bother wasting time with you. However, whenever you people come up with this tithe lies, we will be here to confront you guys.

The only tithe lies are see here are those peddled against tithe.

I showed you something above which you cautiously avoided but I bring it again and let us hear your answer.

Goshen360:

No, na ogogoro I drink Tenth part is NOT tithe. You need lecture. It's already going on in the other thread!

Heb. 7:2_To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Heb. 7:6_But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Who was lying above? Note it is between the bible quote and you?

justaqad:

your bible states otherwise


Isaiah 45:21. “Tell you, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel
together: who has declared this
from ancient time? Who has
told it from that time? Have not
I the Lord? And there is no God
else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside
me.”

Yes, Jesus Christ is the ONLY WAY to God!

Goshen360: Brother Snowwy,

Are you gonna answer my question or not

If you open your eyes well enough, you will see where i answered you on that thread.

Goshen360: Given that it is true Jesus approved tithe. I give you that as a bonus for purpose of reasoning the scriptures.

You give someone bonus for quoting the same scripture you have spent pages going against? So you accept Jesus approved tithe?
You mean Jesus approved tithe and this was further validated in I Cor. 9:14 and you keep bringing up arguments against it?
This is classic.

Look, Goshen, we can both discuss on the lots of topics in the bible but on this (with your current mindset) we won't agree

@GraceBestowed, it is really different to get someone introduce herself on this forum. Welcome. This is a great forum to learn nd also opens your eyes to the way people think. The anonymity aids this.
Always make bible-led contributions on here and do not forget the lovely message which you just posted:

(don't argue with a fool, or they will bring you down to their level)

I really love what you posted above. You will do well to make your points clear, concise and precise and leave the viewers to the Holy Spirit to break the word further.

Once again, Welcome.

christemmbassey: Abraham never paid 'TITHE' but he gave a 'tenth' of the spoils as a gift of gratitude to Melchizedek for welcoming and thanking God for his victory, and returned the remainants to the rightfull owners, he did not take anytiing for himself because it was not an income and that was the 1st and the last tro out his life time he never paid nor instruct Isaac or his servants to pay tithe, so pre-law notion is a sinking sand.

I assume the contradictions by Goshen meant nothing to you. Ofcourse, anyone against what you are against is your friend irrespective of whether the person contradicts the bible.

Let me leave you with this. Abraham went to war with his servants, he graciously refused to take of the spoil but he told the King to let his men take their portion FIRST and he left the King have the rest so what the King of Sodom got was basically that which Abraham would have taken which is equal to:

Total spoil-Tithe-portion (or cut of Abraham's men)

And not the 90% continuously touted.

Since you cannot show me any other instance that Abraham met with the Priest then let us let it be.

If you do not have the faith to do it, it will be of no value to you.
Cheers.

Goshen360: ^ Abeg, go answer your question on the other thread please.

This is all you have to say. If you can blatantly disregard scripture like this without remorse, do you see why I do not take you seriously?

Goshen360:

Okay. Thank God you are here to answer and don't tell me it's already answered because what was already answered is what I'm still questioning.

The question is, Hebrews 7:5 says the levites have commandment to TAKE TITHES. Verse 18 says, the commandment is cancelled.....Question, Will the cancellation also include 'to take tithe' or will the cancellation in verse 18 also include but not limited to the commandment to take tithe YES or NO?

That's my question. And don't bother about if I had resort to lying or not....

No, the cancellation does not include tithe as the tithe still remains, it is WHO to take the tithe that changed.

Since your 'simple' question is now answered, I hope this has been laid to rest. If you have further questions, you will need to attend to mine first.
However, for more understanding, go back to read the thread where me and you engaged on this almost exclusively, to which you eventually left.

Goshen360:

No, na ogogoro I drink Tenth part is NOT tithe. You need lecture. It's already going on in the other thread!

Heb. 7:2_To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Heb. 7:6_But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

@Goshen, pls thread softly with your opinions. If you can blatantly disregard scriptures like this, is it discussion on tithe that you will listen to? Careful.

@Goshen,
When I say you make allegations you will deny. What is the meaning of you people Never? You ask questions that ate answered but because you just have shut your mind, you say its not answered? I can see you have resorted to lieing as well.

Post the simple question and let me see if you have not been answered already.
We can discuss just like Paul did in the synagogue but if scriptural references are not enough for you, you need to check yourself.

@Goshen, no I did not run off, I meant I would not stay to discuss tithe especially with you as you claim to know better.
I explain tithe, go check my past threads, I do not force or tell people to pay. Infact the mindset you hve about it, will not aid you so why bother.
I never said you raised fresh topics, I was talking generally that rasing fresh topics on tithe will not make people give or not, with all the discusion on tithe so far on NL, anyone with a willing mind should just read through. So going into discussion especially with the way you have brought up what I have past expained to you, is of no use, infact it has even become a joke to you.

I do not have a biased mind against you but I am careful reading your posts, I even commented on a topic you raised today so my mind is free but cautious that's all.

Ofcourse you can discuss away, I comment on what I want and leave when I want to not 'run away'. In this case, the OP has stated his question which was not 'why tithe?'.

Just be careful what you claim to know because a lot of times you just speak your opinion and not God's.

@Goshen,
Run off? I should not be surprised by the way you make allegations then start apologising later.
I will just advise you to drop your double standards, you find it easy to define words outside the bible but raise eyebrows at others that do. There are enough discussions on tithe already so raising a fresh topics will not change the mind of people whether in favour or against, only the Holy Spirit can.
The OP asked a question which is being answered. So arguing on whether or not to give tithe or offering is not the issue.
Therefore, staying on this thread? Naaa! Just passing through. Just take the advice I gave.

@OP, I think you already know the answer, it is in your question.

@Goshen,
You never cease to surprise me. We have had a discussion on this and you dissappeared when you ran out of contradicting yourself. I will advise you leave matters you do not understand. It is just candid advise.

@Goshen,
This is simply a Spirit-led message. Thank you. If Onan knew he would not want to raise seed for His brother, He would have done the right thing by allowing someone else do that rather than trying to 'enjoy' her. It was the same thing that happened between Boaz and Ruth, only that in this case while the closer relative to Ruth's dead husband did it the right way allowing Boaz have her.

Linking it to what is obtainable today in Christiandom is so apt. The word of God cannot and should not be diluted to suit people's ideaologies, applause, whims or lusts. True soldiers of Christ endure hardness and hard messages, the type that turned some of Christ's disciples back from following Him.

Let us all check ourselves and not take our liberty in Christ as license.

@Joagbaje,
I really will not go into this again because as clear as night and day the bible has said to AVOID fornication, MARRY. To AVOID adultery, stay married and sleep only with your spouse for MARRIAGE (not bethrothal, not espousal, not engagement, not commitment to marry) is HONOURABLE in all and the marital bed UNDEFILED, but fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

Anyone that cannot take such simple straightforward scriptural instructions has gone against God's word. That's all.

Ignatio:

I didn't favour the out of wedlock relationship. I just pointed out an observation and how it's becoming a growing trend.

The lives of these people do not influence mine. I just used them because they are public figures and have a lot of followers/fans whom they influence.

Am not accusing Christians of anything. I only asked a question.

@OP, this should not be strange to you, the world will grow more evil as the end nears. Our prayers should be to stand in the calling that Christ has called us.
Unfortunately, even Christians have started giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, and things that should not even been heard are done by them.
It is really sad but it has been prophesied.
But it is not license for you to sin too.

moredendisc:



See survival tactics and emotional responses to a perceived threat which is unfounded.

The Holy Spirit is now, not man. It isn't a case of, now questioning God, anywhere

The fear of the unknown is the beginning of quenching knowledge

Die to preconceived notions/ideas and become alive to new

If the biblical laws and commandments are now preconceived ideas, let me die in them rather than live in your new world movt.
Thank you.(edited)

Is the Holy Spirit now man? Abi you are now questioning God here? Pls do not blaspheme o!

I have said enough at this point.

moredendisc:

The keyword there is/was RA.PE, another form of illicit or unapproved sex

Not all illicit or unapproved sex is fornication

but all fornication is illicit or unapproved sex just like adultery, ra.pe, bestiality, lesbians/homosexual sex etc is

Defiled - forcibly took her against her wish, stole what is not his and spoiled her for the rightful owner, as there was no mutual permission and agreement that they are for life until death do them part

He LAY with her and DEFILED her!

Her brothers were angry because He LAY with her even when he came forward to marry her.

Her brothers said he DEALTH with her as with A HARLOT!

When you read where the bible says one plays the harlot it doesn't mean rape. Please read in context.

They were not married. Even bethrotheds do not have sex. Joseph and Mary did not have sex. Yet they were espoused. Was that not an agreement to be married?

They wait till marriage as they are meant to be virgins. Call it whatever name, all sex outside marriage is wrong!

Ignatio: Wahala dey o. Let me go and play ball first. I'll be back.

You are the reason this whole thread even started so since your conscience must be telling you it is a sin to sleep with anyone that is not your wife or husband and you have been shown enough scriptures to prove that, if you go ahead in this sin, just know it is now willful, go read scriptures on penalty for willful sins.
Let me leave you with that.

Goshen360:
but having pre-marital sex to whoever I'm to marry is NOT fornication (illicit, unapproved or unlawful sex) according to the verses I showed you. NO

It is FORNICATION!!!!!!
You did not sleep with your wife, did you? NO!

Go read Genesis 34 and see what it means for a man to sleep with someone not his wife. Infact read selected verses below.

2 And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the country, saw her, he took her, and lay with her, and defiled her. 3 And his soul clave unto Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the damsel, and spake kindly unto the damsel.

7 And the sons of Jacob came out of the field when they heard it: and the men were grieved, and they were very wroth, because he had wrought folly in Israel in lying with Jacob's daughter; which thing ought not to be done.

31 And they said, Should he deal with our sister as with an harlot?

When people start rationalising God's word with human knowledge this is what you get. As glaringly as that scripture proves that what the man did was wrong, Goshen still cannot see beyond it.
When you sleep with someone whether or not you plan to marry you have played the harlot. Only the marital bed is undefiled and honourable. Except you have another bible o.


How you can tell me that when Paul said TO AVOID fornication, MARRY! Is now my own and not the bible's definition of fornication shows you have given heed to seducing spirits and you have itchy ears.

@Goshen,
In all what does it say? Have mutual intimate relations with your spouse only!

Define fornication whichever way you want based on your head knowledge. Paul wrote, to avoid fornication, MARRY! Not CONSENT to MARRY, not be espoused to marry, not have a fiancee or be BETHROTHED.

Anything outside that is either fornication or adultery which are grave sins.
The Spirit and the word is all we need.

Goshen360: @ Snowwy,

And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins. Exodus 22:16-17

Here you have it. Even I was even mistaking - even the dowry only comes when the father utterly refused. If the father agree, then no dowry and yet, there's pre-marital sex. What do you have to say?

Beautiful Goshen,
I warned you to watch before you post. Did his sleeping with her make her his wife even though he seduced her meaning they both consented?
No!
He has to endow her to be his wife.
Now her father has rejected no be so?
What did they commit? Fornication!
He had to pay the penalty for the sin.
Paul says to avoid fornication let every one marry.

striktlymi:

Are we now subject to the law of the old testament?

What is the law of the old testament? Please check enough threads on NL full of discussion on this. Christ is the fulfilment of the law, only in Christ can you fulfil God's laws....overflogged topic pls, I am not getting into that.

Goshen360:

NO SIR. You're wrong. I'm not for law as you know BUT what is in the law of Moses, I will show you soon. The penalty for s.ex outside marriage or pre-marital sex is to pay dowry. So, if I don't have s.ex, do I still need to pay dowry to be considered married? I need to work you through rigorously tonight I'm preparing the scriptures. I will quote it soon.

I am waiting for the scripture, I know it already but I will advise you to be sure you think very hard before you quote it as I am waiting for you.
You said the dowry was a penalty, penalty for doing what?
You are threading on dangerous ground o.

@Goshen,
Sex is only approved in marriage NOT in CONSENT to marry. And the sex is to be with your wife NOT BETHROTHED, FIANCEE or GIRLFRIEND.

How long do I have to keep hammering that with scripture?

You initially said sex between two unmarried people is not SIN, are you saying you were wrong?


Whatever the parents decide is fine, I am just telling you what is obtainable. The parents are to give their daughter's hand to you in marriage. Court wedding makes it legal by national law, church wedding is also very good for those who intend to take that route so please do not think I am against it. It is just not a must do.

@Goshen,
Please quote the scripture that says you must lay before you pay dowry in context o! By the way, the scripture must show where the 'laying' is acceptable.

@Strklyme,
Leave Goshen. When he wants to marry, let him go to the family of the wife and ask for her hand in marriage, the next thing any typical parent will say is they want to see Goshen's people (may be except oyinbo).
When his parents come to ask, they will ask them to start planning of wedding, any wedding of the parents fancy.
Such parents hardly give 'consent' till the wedding day.

But I think Goshen is trying to save cost, he wants a situation where he goes to talk to the parents and immediately they say yes, oya take her dey go your house.
It may work though, turn the hands of the clock to year 1000BC.

Goshen, I can see you were just looking for talk talk. Make sure it is your wife you have sex with,not bethrothed, fiancee or girlfriend shikena.

striktlymi: @All

Another angle to this 'parental consent' is that in Africa it also involves some formal ceremony. What are we saying about this?

For Goshen, I guess his plans will be when he wants to go pump tire of his car, he will quickly dash to his 'fiancee-wife-consented by parents' parents house and say 'sorry I was passing by and decided to drop the bride price, take, ehn I will collect some change sha but if you don't have it now let me collect it another day, Infact na change I don dey find since'.

Goshen360:
What I'm saying is a man and woman with consent to marry and consent from parents, even without 'formal' marriage ceremony when they 'make love' is not pre-marital se.x because in the eyes of God, they're already married otherwise, there would have being 'formal' marriage ceremony when God instituted marriage in Eden but there was none.

What say ye?

Do not get it twisted Goshen. Consent to marry is NOT marriage.

God created a help meet for Adam, specially packaged wife. That was the first place wife was used. Gen 2:24

If you are not sleeping with your wife or husband, you are commiting sin. shikena. Whatever definition you have to the word Husband or Wife, na you sabi.
I rest my case.

Goshen360:

Yes, I agree but can you show us where Adam did 'formal' marriage by going to church or court before 'knowing' Eve to start bearing children I want us to reason in bible context.

Who were Adam and Eves parents?

You mean God's giving them to each other was not wedding enough?

Are you kidding me or just so bored you are looking for who to banter with?