₦airaland Forum

Steep:
How come in Isaiah 53 the suffering servants is described as a sacrifice for the Jewish nation?

It is not for the Jewish nation..

He was suffering from what was done to him...

You need to check their history and see their suffering..

KnownUnknown:
Yahweh and the rest of the monsters under their beds.

Lol...you don come again..

Iam just having a field day here....

Saved from what?

Steep:
So what does the the scribes penning down laws for themselves have with the prophecy of Isaiah?
By the way, saying the scribes penned down lies is obviously not talking about the law of Moses nor the prophets, the scriptures are intact, it was the scribes during Jeremiah's days that he described as "having lying pen".

The question remains unanswered who is the servant of God that became a sacrifice for sin?

God said over and over that he hates human sacrifice. In Isaiah 53, nobody died and there is no resurrection anywhere...
"He shall see his offspring

He shall prolong his days...the will of the lord shall prosper in his hands..

I told you to read it in context, you keep isolating text...

The suffering servant is Israel/jacob

Steep:
None of them addressed the issue, Israel has never bear the sin of others neither is Israel without violence in fact the suffering that Israel passed through is because of their sins.

Isaiah 40:2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD's hand double for all her sins.

Note Israel suffering is because of her sins but the suffering servant suffered and died because of the sins of others.
Therefore it is clear that Israel is not the suffering servant.

Nobody died ...

Read 10-12

Steep:
@ really believe in the prophet Isaiah tell me, who is the righteous servant that bear the sin of God's people. Isaiah 53, I have not mentioned Jesus have I, tell me who is the servant it is very simple.

Educate yourself

https://aish.com/isaiah_53_the_suffering_servant/


https://aish.com/jeremiah-31-and-the-new-covenant/

Steep:
Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Simple question,
The righteous servant was stricken for the sin of God's people,
Who are God's people? Was it not Israel?
If Israel is God's people then they can not be the suffering servant,

According to Isaiah Israel has violence in her hands.

Isaiah 59:6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.

Even Jeremy confirmed it.

Jeremiah 6:6 For thus hath the LORD of hosts said, Hew ye down trees, and cast a mount against Jerusalem: this is the city to be visited; she is wholly oppression in the midst of her.

6:7 As a fountain casteth out her waters, so she casteth out her wickedness: violence and spoil is heard in her; before me continually is grief and wounds.

However, unlike Israel ,the righteous servant had no violence.

Isaiah 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

From this it is clear that Israel is not the suffering servant



There is no renewal of the old,
Yahweh said the new one would not be like the old one.
So this covenant is not according to the Old one.

Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Read it in context...you are still reading in isolation..

Niklaus398:
which impending conflict pls?

Are you on Twitter

Follow occultbot and illuminatbot


You will get the gist

tctrills:
You are wrong again.
Making friends with a Jew is completely unnecessary.
The bible does not belong to them. It's an open source for everyone.
The bible was written by the ancestors of the present Jews. This does not give the present Jews any more insight than anyone.
It's just like asking the descendants of slavery what it felt like to walk on a Cotton field in Georgia.
Just because your ancestors had an experience don't not give you greater understanding.
My grandfather was a traditional worshipper yet I know next to nothing about his religion.

If you see me interpreting your grand father's religion to somebody else and see your brother doing the same, who do you think will be nearer to the true interpretation?

tctrills:
I don't know what you are taking about when you say the people that own it. But then in an argument, everyone believes he is right.

The Tanakh belongs to the Jews.

Try making friends with one..


He will open your eyes...

What is there to live for when the people you sacrifice your time and resources for betray you. Just go and sleep better sleep wey God bless..

tctrills:
Alright, good your opinion. We really had nothing to argue about.

Lol..I asked the people that owns it and that was the answer I got..

So I think I am right..

Steep:
Israel is not the suffering servant
Unlike the suffering servants that bear the sins of others Israel was punished for her sins not for others

Isaiah 42:24 Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the LORD, he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways, neither were they obedient unto his law.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

The suffering servants was bruised for Israel's sin.
Therefore the righteous servant is not Israel.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.


Jeremiah 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.


Israel is the sheep that have gone astray while the righteous servants bear their sin.

So the question remains, who us this righteous servant?

Don't pick verses in isolation. Read them together. ..and for your information Isaiah never said for ...but from ..
He was wonder from our transgressions...

It is the kings of the earth that is talking when they realise that Israel was right all along..

Read again, this time start from 52:12

Steep:
Why did God lay the sin of Israel on the suffering servant?
If the solution was already given, why were animals used for sacrifice continously?


Why did God promise to make a new covenant if the first one was the solution?
Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Note the new Covenant according to yahweh would be different.

First and foremost the suffering servant is Jacob/Israel..not jesus..Isaiah already told you 8 times prior to 53 like in Isaiah 41:1-9 and 45:1-9.

Secondly the new convenient is a renewal of the only convenant...God will write the laws in their heart and not on paper so that it becomes easy to keep.

Read them again..

tctrills:
Now you are clearly confused. If you believe the bible is frictional then all your formal arguments were uncalled for.
Your only purpose was to waste my time.

I said the bible is an oracle..

You read it and learn the message in it...

It is not a history textbook...

tctrills:
Please answer the above question. You seem to be repeating you arguments.

Which questions?

tctrills:
Jesus Christ called himself the son of Man. If Jesus Christ told you he is the son of man then where is your argument?

He did not tell me..

The authors said he said it.....

The author never met jesus or any one that has met him.
He was just writing a fictional story...He ner said he believed his story or how the story affected his life..

Why should I bother myself.

I only follow the laws of my creator..

Kobojunkie:
You are the slowpoke thinking you can easily pass off what are your brain farts as God's word. What an eejit!

You know why you are dull?

You never learn anything..

Because you don't study..
I will let you wallow in your ignorance...

[quote author=tctrills post=118524590][/quote]Bible has already told you that God is not a man.
The writters used human attribute to describe God most times..just so you can have an idea.

The bible is an oracle...not history

It is a spiritual manual not history textbook.

Kobojunkie:
Where did God state this?

You are just a slowpoke...

No insult intended..

MaxInDHouse:
Says you!

Says every scripture scholar..

tctrills:
It's all about context. A verse called God a mighty man in battle. In another verse Christ is the son of Man.So we have enough verses that refer to God as man.

It is a metaphor....

You no go school,

Stop taking text out of context

Jesus dying for sin is in the realm of Lucifer..

It has got nothing to do with God.

God already gave the solution to the problem of sin in the Tanakh. 2nd chronicles 7:14..

God hates human sacrifice.it is an abomination.

Steep:
The prophet Isaiah prophesied that someone will come to die or the sins of his people, so who in history was ever said to died for sin of men if not Jesus?
According to Isaiah this person is a servant of God, so who amongst God's servant was ever a sacrifice for sin

When did Isaiah make this prophecy?

Don't quote 53...because everyone know the suffering servant is Israel ..

Kobojunkie:
Look who's talking!

So because every human has a conscience then means the conscience is the way to God? Such ridiculous nonsense!

Our conscience is God's signature..

Kobojunkie:
Stop linking God to what is obviously born of your personal delusions abeg!

You are too dull...

Sorry pick somebody with your mentally..I am way above this ramblings..

Kobojunkie:
Again.... Who wrote these laws, and when?
Where are you told that these laws are written there in your conscience? undecided
Where is it written that you will be judged by your conscience?
What does this supposed judgment amount to beyond the feeling of guilty we occasionally experience in this world?

Stop submitting the musings of your mind as if facts... present evidence for your claims.

Are you dull or blind..?

Or both.

Every human has got a conscience, it is part of what makes us human being.

Before the colonial masters and enslavers gave you the bible our ancestors knew right from wrong....it is embedded in all human...

Grow up....please, you are just too dull..

MaxInDHouse:
The title "GOD" simply means SUPREME BEING so when God told Moses:

And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee GOD to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. Exodus 7:1

This means that at the time Moses lives his words shall be like the authorities of a SUPREME BEING that even the greatest King of his time (Pharaoh of Egypt) must seek Moses's concent before he could have PEACE of mind as King over Egypt!

So when the scriptures say:

[s]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1[/s]

Misinformed Churchgoers trying to use trinity explained it got it all wrong because Jesus WAS once acting like GOD controlling all the forces of nature, that's why God promised the Israelites that He will send another prophet in the manner of Moses: who served as prophet and God at the same time! Deuteronomy 18:15-19
[/s]

New testament is not scriptures...
It is BS

Kobojunkie:
1. God's judgment is a personal choice for me to make. What sort of bullsheet claim is that? You brought up the conscience as a standard where God is concerned yet you cannot answer simple questions as to when exactly it was made such.

2. These ramblings of yours make no sense. What has my conscience to do with God and His Heaven when I can switch the channels on my conscience whenever I choose - I can decide tomorrow that fking my neighbor's wife is my right and not evil and I will no longer experience guilt when I do so - meaning it is not a reliable standard as far as God is concerned?

Well like I said it's your choice...

Go ahead and fk her...

The only thing we own are the choices we make, every other thing belong to God..

tctrills:
For a point to be right, it doesn't have to be everywhere in the bible. In fact, no one point is everywhere in the bible

If Numbers says God is not a man or human being...this point has to be true through out the bible..if somebody says god became man just know the person is lying...

God is the creator of heaven and earth. He is outside of creation. He can't be part of creation. It does not make any sense..

Kobojunkie:
That I personally don't do these things you have listed above does not mean others don't so without remorse, again, answer the questions.

Who wrote these laws, and when?
Where are you told that these laws are written there in your conscience?
Where is it written that you will be judged by your conscience?
What does this supposed judgment amount to beyond the feeling of guilty we occasionally experience in this world?

Our creator did..

It is part of our nature as human..

Kobojunkie:
This answers none of the questions asked.

Again, Why is your conscience a reliable standard for such things? Who decided it should be? When was this decision made? By whom? How?

Like I said...it's your choice..

God has placed both good and evil before or in front of you..

Whichever one your conscience tell you to do..

If you are wise enough to choose good, you will reap the reward, and if you are foolish to choose evil, you as well reap the reward..

In both cases a reward awaits..

But the goal(heaven) is to live in peace and prosper..