₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
So it's your village law therefore it's not binding on people globally!

Ok. I live in Benin you know. It is also what is obtainable here. I have also lived in Lagos and served (NYSC) in kogi it is what is obtainable there. I have also been to the UK, Italy, Republic of Ireland. That is what is obtainable there too. I have class mates who reside in the US and Canada, that is what is obtainable...
So...you still in doubt?

MaxInDHouse:
How do you convince people around you that there is a God they need to repair their relationship with and how do think it could be done globally?

Sincere repentance. Let your actions show it. God says, he would forgive. That is ok for me.
Do good deeds. You think God does not know about the capabilities of man?

MaxInDHouse:
Who cares what a Jew thinks?
Let them first practice what they believe so that everyone can see the benefits nah, whether the person is Jew or not it makes no sense as long as they can't do something that's beneficial for all to see!

You are not the judge...or are you?
They are following the divine precepts...
And living righteously.
They don't need to knock on doors.

Truthseeker10:
Where did your great grandfather get them from?

From his great grand father....(Now my ancestors)

delkuf:
the God of the Bible. The Father of our Lord Jesus Christ

Ok...
No problem. He is not the creator of the universe, so he does not set the laws.
The father of Jesus (if he existed) is not the creator of the heaven and earth and gave the Jews the divine laws.

He might just be one of the 4000+ gods.....
I only reverence the creator and follow his divine commandments.

MaxInDHouse:
You are shooting yourself in the foot and it's just a pity that AntiChristian the Muslim will find it really hard to believe that Jesus never did all the things Quran told them which Muhammad himself confirmed.
So whatever disqualifies Jesus and Christianity has rubbished both Allah, Quran, Muhammad, Islam and Muslims all together!

Thank you. They are all bull shit.

delkuf:
I don't know of Judasim, but in Christianity, repentance of is only through the Lord Jesus. Cornelius in the Bible was a good man. He was doing good, giving alms but it was not enough to save him. God sees that if he died like that, he can't make heaven. So the Spirit of God told him send for Peter so that he can preach the gospel of Christ for him. Only then can Cornelius truly repent and be saved.
Stop comparing Christianity with Islam or Judaism or Buddhism. In Christianity remission of sin is through the blood and water of the Lord Jesus

Ok sorry.
I am not a Christian, I don't believe in human sacrifice. It is abomination.
It is an abomination when yahoo + boys do it and will continue to be an abomination in the sight of the creator of the universe.

MaxInDHouse:
The Christ must be slaughtered for our sins to be removed:

Who has put faith in the thing heard from us? And as for the arm of Jehovah, to whom has it been revealed? He will come up like a twig before him, like a root out of parched land. No stately form does he have, nor any splendor; And when we see him, his appearance does not draw us to him. He was despised and was avoided by men, A man who was meant for pains and was familiar with sickness. It was as if his face were hidden from us. He was despised, and we held him as of no account. Truly he himself carried our sicknesses, And he bore our pains. But we considered him as plagued, stricken by God and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgression; He was crushed for our errors. He bore the punishment for our peace, And because of his wounds we were healed. Like sheep we have all wandered about, Each has turned his own way, And Jehovah has caused the error of us all to meet up with him. He was oppressed and he let himself be afflicted, But he would not open his mouth. He was brought like a sheep to the slaughter, Like a ewe that is silent before its shearers, And he would not open his mouth. Because of restraint and judgment he was taken away; And who will concern himself with the details of his generation? For he was cut off from the land of the living; Because of the transgression of my people he received the stroke. And he was given a burial place with the wicked, And with the rich in his death, Although he had done no wrong And there was no deception in his mouth. Isaiah 53:1-9

Isaiah 53 is talking about a suffering servant. 8 times prior to chapter 53, Isaiah already told you who the servant is. Why are you still pulling it out? The servant of God is Israel/Jacob. See Isaiah 45:1-7.
You are really not learning anything.

None of any of the “Jesus died for our sins” narrative makes any sense from a Jewish point of view. It’s just a bizarre and puzzling story.

First of all, Judaism does not accept human sacrifice. What if Jesus was the messiah? A messiah is a temporal king not a divine blood sacrifice, not the “son of God” and definitely not “God made flesh”, which is a horribly un-jewish idea.

The details of Christian theology make far more sense from a Greek pagan perspective, or even a Hindu perspective, none of it resonates with the Jewish experience.

The Jewish mission, moreover, is not to escape the world or achieve “salvation”, whatever that is, but to bring the Divine light into the everyday life of the world. We are not seeking rescue from the world or from “sin”. Our errors that obscure the divine presence (sin if you will) are overcome through our own repentance. Yes, in temple times, this was symbolically carried out through animal sacrifice, these days it is carried out through prayer and the observance of commandments. The tragic death of poor Jesus, who, by all accounts, seems to have been a lovely person, achieved nothing mystical as far as we can tell.

All the other stuff Christians say about “original sin” and whatsoforth is straight-out rejected by Judaism and has no basis in any Jewish belief. Basically, Christianity speaks in a totally foreign language; despite it’s Jewish roots, it is “avodah zarah” (foreign worship) for us.

(A Jewish reply)

delkuf:
Jesus has died for the remission of sin if you like continue deceiving yourself. Salvation is only in Jesus Christ. God gave his son for our sins that is what God want and no one can question it. You quoted Jonah going to Nineveh, I am quoting John 3:16 for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believe in him should not perish but have everlasting life. This is God's package for us. All we need is to just believe

The purpose of repentance is that we repair a relationship between us and G-d that we have, through our actions, damaged. Since it is because of our own actions, we have to take responsibility for our actions. We have to acknowledge our wrong doing and through that acknowledgement bring ourselves to improve and to not repeat the same error. We see this in the word for repentance - “Teshuvah” which can also have the literal meaning of “to return”, the purpose of Teshuvah is to return to our relationship with G-d since we have changed ourselves and are returning to our relationship to G-d. The whole purpose of Teshuvah is negated if someone does it for us. How does it show I have changed if someone else does the repenting? How does it show I am working to fix the relationship if someone else does the repenting? For this reason Judaism does not believe in vicarious atonement, if you do not do it for yourself, it does not happen. I have sometimes explained it like this: Judaism is a religion for adults- we blame no one but ourselves for our sins, we expect people to take responsibility for their actions and to fix the errors they made themselves.

You could also look at it from a more technical point of view:

Human sacrifice is forbidden in Judaism- thus Jesus was not a valid sacrifice
Only specific Kosher animals are allowed for sacrifices thus Jesus was not a valid sacrifice.
A sacrifice has to be killed be the standard laws of shechita, Jesus was killed by crucifixion and thus not a valid sacrifice.
A sacrifice has to be killed in the Temple before Mishkan, Jesus was killed away from the Temple.
A sacrifice has to be unblemished- Christian scriptures claim Jesus was whipped, carried a heavy cross, had a crown of thorns put on his head, a spear thrust to his side. All of these would have been blemishes that invalidated him as a sacrifice.
So aside from the fact that the concept of vicarious atonement is foreign to Judaism (and would be seen as a punishment since it denies the person a chance to repair the relationship they have damaged) there are multiple technical reasons why Jesus would have been an invalid sacrifice.

delkuf:
Jesus has died for the remission of sin if you like continue deceiving yourself. Salvation is only in Jesus Christ. God gave his son for our sins that is what God want and no one can question it. You quoted Jonah going to Nineveh, I am quoting John 3:16 for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believe in him should not perish but have everlasting life. This is God's package for us. All we need is to just believe

Which God?
Hope not the one that says he hates human sacrifice and calls it an abomination.
Which one? Because the last time i checked, there were up to 4000+ gods.
Do you know the meaning of deception?
Don't you know you have been deceived?

Truthseeker10:
Where did you read them from?

Told to me by my great grand father....and two elders in my town/village.
They say me down and told me why they are not acceptable in our society.

Antichristian2:
If the earliest Christians within the first two centuries after Jesus did not need a New Testament to qualify their faith, why do modern Christians have such a need? If they did not sanction or consider any other writing beside the Old Testament to be scripture, then isn’t it a digression from the ‘true faith‘ of the earliest believers to incorporate something new as scripture? The first New Testament was codified and canonized by the heretic Marcion who believed that the Jewish YHWH was not the true God, the first time the largest Christian Church sanctioned a New Testament was during the 2nd Ecumenical Council of Carthage in 397 CE, some 360+ years after Jesus.

One of the more telling issues with the questioned posed above is that those who have responded to it believe that the question was tricky to answer. I agree it is tricky to answer, that’s the very reason I asked it in the first place! I therefore, don’t find that description of the question to be a problem, it’s more an affirmation that I framed the question properly in the first place. I’m essentially asking one question:

Is the New Testament required to be believed in for salvation in Christianity?

In other words, can someone be a believing Christian without having need for, or being dependent on the New Testament? Can someone reject it and yet, still be saved? This is effectively how the earliest Christians lived, without a New Testament. Some have tried to respond with the following passages:

*“Repent and believe in the gospel” (Mark 1:15)
*“believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31)

These verses do not answer my question. What these verses teach is that you should believe in the good news, but it does not require belief in this or that or any other Gospel. The authors of Mark, over its centuries of development, never emended the text to say, “repent and believe in this gospel,” there’s a reason for that, the verse is conveying the point that it’s good to believe in what Jesus brought, i.e. his message, not the documents written by people decades later who never knew him. Rather, what is emphasized for belief is in him, Jesus, not any written work by any man. That’s the point I’m trying to make here. There is no requirement to believe in the New Testament as God’s inspired revelation to be saved in Christianity. Consider for a moment, this very important passage:

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. – 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NIV).

It’s useful for lots of things, except for salvation. This passage does not state that belief in scripture is a requirement to be saved. Scripture is useful for many things, but it’s not a requirement. It’s like the difference between having an umbrella in the rain and not having one. Sure, the umbrella is useful and it is good for many things when it’s raining, but it’s not a necessity or requirement for when you’re going into the outside world. This is the distinction between something’s usefulness and it’s necessity, one is clearly not the other.

So then, the question begs itself, doesn’t it? Do you require the canonized and codified New Testament, to be believed in, as a requirement for your salvation in Christianity? The earliest Christians did not seem to think so, so why do you?

and God knows best.

FYI the gathering in Carthage was not an ecumenical council. It was a synold and was chaired by st Augustine.
For more than 350+ years there was no new testament. This is because what became Christianity was still being cooked by the church fathers and many forgeries were still being done.

immaculatesense:
What are the universe laws sir. Can you itemize some?
Thanks

Do not murder
Do not steal
Desist from idolatry as we are all God's spirit having a human experience
Honor/respect your parents
Do not bear false witness.
Do not have sex with any family members
Etc.

delkuf:
without the death of the Lord Jesus there is no remission of sin. If you confess and forsake your evil ways if you did not believe and except the Lord Jesus Christ, you are deceiving yourself.

This is pagan ideology. Human sacrifice belongs to the realm of Lucifer. It has got nothing to do with God.
When he sent Jonah to Nineveh, they repented , he forgave them. No human needs to die before God can forgive. He is not a psychopath.

Jesus is supposed to be a man like me if at all he existed. That is who some ass wipes are equating to the creator of heaven and earth.
Some people get mind sha...No fear at all. They are here quoting contradicting passages to confuse themselves the more.

Thank heavens I woke up to the scam and left it. Jesus does not mean anything to me again. He is useless to the scheme of things....a big distraction and abomination in God's eyes.
Time after time, God says there is no one besides him and he created the heavens and the earth all by himself. Some dipwits will see it and still associate Jesus with the creator. How did Jesus even exist at that time? Like a spirit or a human being?
The Romans really did a good number on the world.
The European now look back and realize they have been mislead and calls it " the dark ages"
We when be johnny just come, carry the matter for head, just to deceive ourselves and dupe people to part with their money.
For any meaningful progress to come to Nigeria we have to give Jesus and Muhammad back to the European and the Arabs., and embrace our heritage. Then, and only then wii we make progress.

delkuf:
you are confusing yourself. So are telling me that I must read Leviticus from chapter 1 to chapter 17 before my sins before my sins can be forgiven. I show you that forgiveness comes through the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus but you said no. Who or what can make my sins be forgiven

You have to sincerely repent. That is confess and forsake your evil ways. God will forgive. He does not need a human death/or sacrifice before he can forgive. His hands are not too short. Though your heart be as black as cool. He can make them as white as snow.

immaculatesense:
Okay sir.
What path do you follow now on your spiritual journey.

My own path. With my own experiences, me stakes and all.
WIth the universal laws to guide me

immaculatesense:
Sir.
First and foremost, the passage you quoted was not just any knowledge. It is the knowledge of God because the priest then rejected God's knowledge. That aside.
We didn't talk about any scriptures, I only replied to you message where you said you left Christianity.
Thanks.

I left because , he was just a distraction to my spiritual journey.

immaculatesense:
I am sorry you made that decision sir. In a family, we have children who are shy and we have those who are outspoken. We have those who are short and those who are tall. We even have those who are nice and those who are mean.
Sir, we don't have to do or believe in entirely same thing to be one big family. At least we all agree that the creator do not support evil but good and that we should do to other what we want done to us and not do to others what we don't want done to us. I hope you reconsider sir.
Thanks.

See Isaiah 45: 7
God is responsible for both good and evil.
You think evil can happen and God would not know about it? Not possible. For it to happen, it means God has okayed it.
People can believe what ever they like. Believe is free. But there is only one version of the truth. It is just for you to know it. Nobody will force you to believe it by faith.

"My people suffer for lack of knowledge".....so says the Lord.

Thank goodness that I gave up Christianity.
It is full with contradictions and confusions.

Ha, some believe in Trinity, others don't
Some believe in tithe others don't

Such confused individuals...

In the Tanakh, when it speaks of salvation, it always from physical danger.
Sin was a breaking of God's commandments. And he has already provided a solution for the problem of sin. It does not involve a human sacrifice. In multiple places, He said he hates human sacrifice and even calls it an abomination.
Where the early church fathers got the idea of a human/god sacrifice from is way over me.

The only god that is known to accept human sacrifice was moloch.
I am beginning to think that he has something to do with Christianity.....

Gabrielshow24:
So what now stands in gap has consciousness🤔?

Hennnnn?

ANCESTORIAL8:
It's funny how these folks go in circles.

The strongest LIGHT creates the strongest SHADOWS.

The lips of wisdom are closed, except to the ears of understanding.

@Sonmvayina pleased to meet you.

I have heard great things about you my good sir.

Thank you sir.
I just drop them.

Whoever is of the light listens and learns.

Gabrielshow24:
Talk is cheap, let's use logic🤨.

What then are the implications of your statement? 🤦🏾‍♂️

Human = God's spirit+ body from earth.
When humans expire, the spirit returns to God and the body is buried for it to return to dust. See Ecclesiastics 12:7

What did you not understand?

The devil is the "Ruler of Darkness" AKA the moon. Which is very much part of God. As God is the totality of existence.
The devil is not a dual opposite of God. That is an insult against the creator.
The devil does only what God has created it to do. That is to rule the night.
The Enuma Elisha tell us that after Marduk has finished creating the universe, he gave the gods their domain and station. To Nanna he gave the moon.
Good and evil are God's exclusive properties. He forms the light and creates darkness.
He makes peace and creates disasters/calamities. He does all these things.

Gabrielshow24:
This is Pathetic.
1) you imply your God as an absolute failure🤕, that continues to fail in his own purpose🤦
2) every action consequently becomes the work of your God 🤦

Hahahaha...

Then you don't understand anything.

gohf:
goes to show your hatred even without knowing the question

🚶🏾‍♂️🚶🏾‍♂️🚶🏾‍♂️🚶🏾‍♂️

Tell me which kind of question is Jesus the answer?

Gabrielshow24:
Let me get you straight 🤔,God doesn't fulfil his purpose so he reincarnates again and again? 🤔

You make Patrick star wiser than this your God?

After all, is it not God that is working through you?
How then can he fail, to fulfill his own purpose? 🤔

Humans are God's spirit dwelling within a physical body made from Dust. Do you understand this?
When a human expires, the spirit returns to God and the body is buried for it to return to dust.
If the spirit that returns to God has not completed its mission on earth...it is sent again in another body to try again...
What is the intelligence of God sending his spirit to burn forever? Does it make any sense??

Jesus is the answer?

then the question must have been a daft one.....

MrPresident1:
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Sin separates the soul from God, it weakens the spirit. Soul death means separation from God. A soul separated from God is a dead soul and soulless and will dwell in hell.

A dead soul in a living body is a carcase of a body and is in hell

bull shit squared.

how can GOD be separated from GOD? Does it make any sense?

we are the forma through which GOD experiences the universe.
both good and evil is the property of God.

there is nothing like hell.
when a soul fails to fulfill the reason for its incarnation, it comes back again and again....

MaxInDHouse:
Oh sorry i left the thread you came late.

Some other time.

Bye!

ok