₦airaland Forum

mostob:
So you're saying we lost because Havertz didn't play? Just say it bro. FYI, you didn't support this Havertz more than me. However, I'm not too blinded to know when to call out a poor performance.

We lost because we couldn't break a low block. Havertz would have maneuvered the spaces to create clear chances for goal. That's what a raumdeuter does.

Don't worry, Havertz will play today you will see difference.

mostob:
Gbam! You just summarized everything. Using this your context, Giroud is the striker A here while VPersie is striker B. I'm glad you can see how a flash in the pan performance can hide a lot of inconsistencies.

Lol.

Bros na you make Giroud A and RVP B? no kee me with laugh abeg.

Giroud hardly scores hatricks that's why Jodera thinks he is average. I have provided their G/G and yet we are still arguing about nothing. For context, Giroud has won more titles and accolades than RvP. But let's leave that story for another day. Lol 😂

mostob:
Stats can be misleading because they don't tell the whole story. Today's football is different from the 90s. If stats are conclusive, there won't be need for scouts to travel miles just to watch their players of interest. The eye test is very very important.

Young man I am not going to argue with you about the validity of statistics because it's a waste of time. There are people who spent years getting a degree in stats and there are people who are professors of statistics and data analysis. So if you think stats are misleading then good for you. Happy New Year in Advance.

Jodera:
Football is all about feelings that's why it's called an Entertainment!!
All those shouts, and emotions, what do you think they are?? Mathematics?
No make me laugh

The good thing I love about football is the process. And everyone who knows me well here (at least according to my posts) knows that I look at performance over results. The season is long, but one thing I can bet on is that as long as Man u play what they play and Chelsea play what they play so far, Chelsea will topple Man u at the end of the season . You can take that to the bank.

You can keep on looking at Stats and ignore what your very eyes sees and enjoy.

I wonder why you dey watch ball when you suppose deh watch am for livescores and opta. That would have been better cos you don't need "feelings".

This post is full of so much bullshiit to make a mountain. Any way let me just take it as you trying to be funny or finding a back door to escape analytical annihilation.

Jodi my dear friend you must not win every argument o. Nna m just accept or L in this one. Daalu

iamoyindamola:
Chicken is from 10k for reasonable one I wanted to get one before Christmas na the price make me realise I wasn't even a Christian
So what's my own😂

Lol 😂😂😂

OkpaNsukkaisBae:
But i think say u are married. Wetin carry u go ashawo telegram group?

Evangelism

mostob:
Bro... Stats can be quite misleading. Remember Mustafi had better stat than VVD that year. Now pray tell...who would you have rather have in your team between both?

Statistically, Havertz has been better than Xhaka this season yet many would still go for Xhaka when it comes down to choosing between the two.

Everything no be by stat bro.

You fans can be funny.

Havertz missed one game and Arsenal lost 2-0 at home to West Ham. Think about this. When I said it is Havertz that makes the tactics to work with his space control you guys think you know ball more than me. Dey play.

mostob:
You remember that year Leceister won the league. Remember Giroud went almost 15 games without scoring. That is one proof.


Jones was crawling and still got to the ball ahead of Giroud that was running. That is another proof.

Do you know how many games Henry played without a goal? Your point no hold water biko

In 5matches, Striker A did not score in the first four but scored a hatrick in the fifth. Striker B ensured he scored one goal in each of the 5 matches. Striker B has a better goals per game ratio. But people will think striker A is a better player than B because of the 3goals they saw in one match. Mumu fans

mostob:
Bro... Stats can be quite misleading. Remember Mustafi had better stat than VVD that year. Now pray tell...who would you have rather have in your team between both?

Statistically, Havertz has been better than Xhaka this season yet many would still go for Xhaka when it comes down to choosing between the two.

Everything no be by stat bro.

My friend stats are not misleading to those who know how they work. If they were then why are they kept. Opta has been keeping stats of players for many years and making good money.

Saying stats are misleading is like saying your bank statements are misleading. EFCC go just carry you go where you don't know.

Jodera:
Football no be mathematics wey I wan dey use stats as all in all.

I no be stats person but if you feel say Giroud dey on par with Van Persie and Auba, then good for you.
And if you and H.ausa feels that Saka is average, Congratulations!!!

I rest my case for this matter.

As per the bolded you think it's about feelings? It's you that feels when you open your mouth whaooo like Roman Reigns without having evidence. Football is mathematics. You may 'feel' that Man United and Chelsea have better players than Aston Villa, but look at the league table, Aston Villa has more points than Man United and Chelsea. It's not about feelings it is about evidence.

daveP:
Lol. All stats are facts
All stats are evidence
Make person no go dey shalaye without evidence. For one sample size, there can be stats and counter-stats. Both are still facts/evidence. It's now left to see which is affecting maximum output the most. If the counterfact is that max one, it wins!! Simple!!!
For your bank statement example, that falls under irrefutable facts!! However, since football get sentimental value in the mix, one may still choose to stand by their weak premise. Doesn't make it any more factual than the irrefutable one.

That is why i personally will continue to complain about our output vs last season. I'm not too comfy like others just cos we 2nd. By 2nd week of January we MAY be 4th if City continues to win and outscore us(for example). We can also be 1st again since out of top 4, we have the easiest next 5 fixtures( unless we flop and disappoint)

You are absolutely right in everything you said here.

For every stat there are counter stats. I hope Jodera and Mostob can understand this. For example Striker A may score more goals than striker B but A may have also missed more clear chances than B. So the question becomes which stats supercedes the other.

For all the talks about Liverpool defenders, they have the best defense so far this season. Better than Arsenal and Man City.

daveP:
Borrowing the words of komek on super Eagles thread

"Stats are indicative, not conclusive"

And we all know that one has to still react to indications for maximum output regardless of what one is comfortable with. Hence....

I think it's correct to say. However, stats are facts that when presented as evidence should be accepted.

If I say I spend millions daily for example, and you doubt it. Then I bring facts to prove it, like a bank statement, you should accept the facts as long as you don't have any counter evidence, even if you still don't believe. That's my problem with Jodera. After going to viewing centre to hear beer parlour analysis he will come here to argue with no evidence.

Jodera:
Cos goals to games ratio is scam.

Everyone knows Van Persie was injury prone during his years here and most of the times, he'll be coming as Sub to gain fitness before finally breaking into first 11. The only season he stayed throughout without injury, he hit 30 goals sharp.

Same thing with Adebayor who was in a two striker system with Henry. The season the latter was Sold, and Adebayor became the main Man, he hit 24goals sharp.

Giroud have always been the main man yet he scored 16 goals highest and you're comparing him with those two?

Giroud name no suppose dey the same sentence with any "Van".

You got jokes sha

You are wasting cyberspace. Post the required measures that you used to determine that Giroud is very average.

I have brought up titles you say they are rubbish. I then brought stats you call them mini skirts. Oga bring whatever you used to determine that Giroud is average or remain silent. Talk is cheap.

Meanwhile I'll like to see the goals per minute ratio your talked about. Don't run.

Unlimited22:
Who was the person I was arguing with about right backs overlapping yesterday?

See the goal Madueke just scored now. He was with two people and Gusto sprints up to join him and creates uncertainty. In that one moment, a small space opens up, baba takes the shot and we lead by two.

Ben White go stand like say e be usher for RCCG.

Get your full backs to overlap. Simple.

Don't blame White, blame Arteta. White is part of a back three together with Saliba and Gabriel. If he overlaps the defense will be open.

Jodera:
Stats is just like Mini Skirt, cos it don't reveal the main important things.

That's why you'll be bold enough to say Nketiah is a better player than Jesus in arsenal because he scores more goals than him. That's why you'll say Giroud is on par with Van Persie, Adebayor and Auba in arsenal shirt. Mind you, 2/3 of the trio have won golden boot while the last one was a golden boot contender.

If you don't think Stats is to complement what we watch and not a "stand alone" criteria, then you can be watching your football in livescores/sofascores. They give good stats

You will keep arguing even when the facts are laid bare to you. It's honourable to accept arguments that are made with facts that are verifiable. Even if you don't believe the facts at least accept them. If someone says he is a billionaire and I doubt it. If the person shows be his bank balance at least I should accept even if I still have my doubts. Any body can wake up and call Giroud 'very very average'.

It's funny because it is similar to you accusing Hausa for saying that Saka and Martinelli are average. There is no difference then between the both of you.

Shegzdave:
This is one of the reason I hate those stats

You hate stats because they tell you the truth that you don't want to hear. Like Jodera when people carry preconceived notions they close their eyes to reality. I have used their performance records to show that Van Persie, Adebayor and Giroud are all on the same level for Arsenal yet you doubt.

We should be bold enough to accept fact when it is laid before us.

Jodera:
Van Persie and Giroud in the same Category?
Someone that scored 30goals for us

Adebayor, the only season he played lone striker for us (without Igwe), he churned out 24 goals.


Why don't you drop their minutes per goal ratios for clearer understanding?

Everyone knows Laca was very very average for us

I gave you goals to games ratio you are still doubting. Why don't you do the bolded because if I did you will still not believe.

Roland17:
Na today your own morning break abi? For nearly 2 seasons I have complained about the predictability of Arteta's tactics and his tunnel vision style of coaching.

You are late to the party, talk another thing!

I am not late. It worked up till few weeks ago that's why we are within the top of the league. If it was predictable 2 seasons ago, then why is it that the past two seasons are our best under Arteta? No hands

Jodera:
Van Persie
Henry
Adebayor

(Please, strictly arsenal appearance only)

Which is good and which is average? I'll take Henry as good for Arsenal. Who should I take as very average?
Goals per games PL only

1. Henry 0.6
2. Aubameyang 0.56
3. Van Persie 0.47
4. Adebayor 0.43
5. Giroud 0.42
6. Lacazette 0.34

3 to 5 are in same category

mostob:
If we want Saka to be isolated with just one defender,

1. The left side must find a way to click.

2. Odegaard must learn not to drift to the wing.

3. Saka himself needs to come inside sometimes.

Very correct 💯

Let me add this. I think that Arteta's tactics of inverting fullbacks and having false 9s have been found out. Opponents basically assign two markers to the wingers and we're done. It may be tiring for them, but it has worked since the season started. Havertz may have helped a little by bringing spaces and one touch transitions but the tactics still remain ineffective against teams who are ready to work hard.

For me, we have to tweak something.

1. We should use a direct striker sometimes. Nketiah is direct and a better goal scorer than Jesus. He should start some games to make us less predictable.

2. We can change to a 4-5-1 formation instead of 4-3-3 and let the wingers be the creators. Even if we invert, it should be to push an extra man upfront, to a 3-5-2.

Jodera:
Giroud won PL with who??

But then, I don't want to go to his personal achievements cos it's enviable, no doubt.

My point is... HE WAS A VERY VERY AVERAGE PLAYER FOR US.

I don't know what's hard there. Prove that he's not an average player for us and you'll be rational. You'll have a very strong point.

Stop calling me seria A, la Liga bundesliga or what not. It does not concern me cos those ones does not give me footballing joy.

How is that hard to understand?

As per the bolded.

Average means not good. Very average means basically very poor. This is based on comparison.

Who do you want us to compare Giroud with to prove that he isn't very very average as you put it but in fact he was quite good? Choose two players (apart from Giroud off course). A very good striker for Arsenal and a very poor striker.

Jodera:
You're the one twisting this thing here cos like I said I'm an arsenal fan so nothing concerns me concerns France

My emphasis is "Giroud was average for us(arsenal)". Very very average.
Is that a fact? Yes

Is like you telling Madrid fans about Hazard and that he's a very good player for them because of his exploits in Chelsea, or Man u fans and Sanchez. How does it concerns them when theyre one of the biggest flop in their history?

I'll always say it, Nothing concerns me (esp arsenal) concerns France or his record in France. He can't be playing nonsense for us and when we want to criticize, you'll start pointing France.

Is that even rational?

Lol.

You talk like I live in France or my umbilical cord was buried there.

My point is you will always be wrong if you say that a record goal scorer for a country like France is average not to talk of 'very very' average. My point is if you take such a stand it simply means you nor know ball.

Have an open mind and you will see clearly. Giroud has won French League, Seria A, PL, UCL, WC, etc. and he won all these as a major player in his teams. It's we fans that don't know how to rate players that call Giroud average. Dude is still balling in AC Milan till today.

mostob:
Do we even have a best team?
IMO, I don't think so. We may not be at the stage where we can confidently change the entire lineup and there won't be a drop in quality. But, we are not a 11-player team either.
Can you put out that best team please

I agree with you because our choice for best team is actually relative. However, I think a combination of

Raya, Timber, Gabriel, Saliba, Tomiyasu, Partey, Rice, Odegaard, Saka, Jesus, and Martinelli should represent our best eleven this season so far strictly in terms of quality and how Arteta wants to play.

Jodera:
Giroud was very average while with us. Very very very average. Even Chelsea fans will tell you he's average while with them.

He can become France record goalscorer for all I care, it doesn't concern me cos I don't support France.

Even the Havertz sef, not that he's even exceptional so far. It's just that the bar from us is set low for him, so we're just supporting him and hoping he picks up very well to what we expect of an Attacking Midfielder.

The bolded is where rationality comes in an argument. First you claim (erroneously) that Giroud is average, yet you agree (factually) that he is the record goal scorer for France (against the likes of Henry, Benzema, etc) but because you know that what you said doesn't make logical sense, and that it is self contradictory, you wipe everything off with 'I don't care, it does not concern me'.

mostob:
Timber and Partey back in training.

One interesting fact about Arsenal is that we haven't yet played our best team.

Lush100:
Brother Giroud is a good striker.
Also a lot of players output depend on the system you are playing.
Kante was effective for Most Chelsea managers but was ineffective with Lampard and to a lesser extent Tuchel.

However if a player is not performing.....we ate free to call it out even though we give them benefit of doubt and then when he start performing we praise them.
Consistent player should be given some slack when they are below par.

Many here won't or didn't accept the bolded when Giroud was with us. But I insisted because I thought rationally.

You are right when you said some players do well under certain systems or managers even though we criticise them. Doesn't it mean that most of us who criticise cannot see how good the player is because the system blinds us or because we have preconceived notions of how a player should perform irrespective of the system in which he plays? Take Havertz for example, most people can't see how well he performs simply because of preconceived ideas? Same as Gabriel Jesus etc.

SouthSouth1914:
You can dance naked in the market square on the 25th December of every year, this isn’t my problem!

So why get involved?

Emu4life:
Because it is a Fabrication

God fabricated it Himself.

Probably that's why it's hard for you to comprehend.

SouthSouth1914:
Jesus Christ wasn’t born December nor even the 25th December. As a matter of fact, 25th December is a date for a pagan celebration in the times of old! Many people or sect/churches who celebrated the 25th December as Christ’s birthday have openly debunked it!

No problem. Tell us when Jesus was born so that we can celebrate it on that day. If not, leave 25th December for us. 🙏🏼

Jodera:
Lol... This your response fit make person vex with you sef than your initial post.

You mean you didn't actually read the guy posts, probably you just skimmed and scanned through his post and you saw that it's an unpopular opinion and you just jumped on it saying "he thinks like you do"?
I mean, this guy said so more than twice and you actually "missed" it?

I notice you just try to have a different opinion from everyone (which isn't bad thing on its own) but when it's glaring and you still want to sound different, I think that's another thing entirely.
No wonder you just loved Giroud and defended cos of how most arsenal fans here felt he's not good for us. You did same with Havertz that's why you started overhyping off the ball movement like it's the greatest assets of all. All these just so you'll sound different from the crowd. Now wey him don improve, I no dey hear "off the ball movement, and ghost moves" again from Attorney defendant Spy.

Pepe was sold this season and person get mind talk say Saka and Martinelli na the worst wingers in arsenal history and you still get bigger mind talk say "he thinks like you do"?
Chaiii😒

Lol, I know say you no go expect this kinda response but for some reason e just evoke vayulence from me, cos e just be like say you wan just do unpopular opinion without even considering what was on ground. Everyone here even attacking him should tell you what's up but you know see am

Anyways, Merry Christmas

I liked him not because of what he said particularly but the boldness of taking an unpopular position and using rational thinking to defend his thoughts.

As for me, I make my opinions irrespective of whether they are popular or not. For example I am not going to say Henry is not the best goal scorer in Arsenal's history. I am not going to say Senderos is better than Saliba. But when I say Giroud is a good striker I prove it with logical and rational thinking. Obviously I was right about Giroud (he is France record goal scorer). I was right about Lacazette Vs Nketiah. I was right about Gabriel Jesus. I have been proven right again about Havertz.

I make my opinions irrespective of what majority of people say. That's because I am a thinker. My opinion may or may not align with majority. The alignment is not my problem, my problem is what are the real facts on ground.

What I praised about Hausa post is that he is bold to take such a position that's all. Many people don't think they only flow with popular opinion which I don't regard any value. Someone may say Pep is the best tactician in PL, but when asked to prove it, they can't because that opinion didn't come from their head, it came from what they saw as popular opinion.

Emu4life:
Today, Jesus is God. Tomorrow, Jesus is God's gift. Shiior!!!
Na so una go dey deceive una sef until you reach bottomless pit. May you receive guidance

You are not able to comprehend it.