₦airaland Forum

gard9ner:
Some believe that once saved, always saved, while others argue that a believer can fall away. Hebrews 6:4-6 warns about those who “were once enlightened” but later fall away. Yet, John 10:28 says no one can snatch believers from Christ’s hand. So, is salvation permanent, or can it be lost through sin and unbelief?

The Bible also speaks of enduring in faith until the end (Matthew 24:13) and warns against backsliding (2 Peter 2:20-22). Some say these verses refer to those who were never truly saved, while others argue they prove a believer can turn away and forfeit salvation. If salvation is eternal, why do scriptures warn about falling away? But if it can be lost, does that mean salvation depends on human effort? What do you think?

1 John said anyone born of God sinneth not simply because the seed of God is in him. Meaning a saved person cannot continue living a life of sin and lose his salvation because of it.
Hebrews 6:4-6 is about someone who continue in unbelief even after receiving enlightenment.
Mathew 24:13 Jesus described those who endure to the end are those who will be saved. Guess what, 1 John identifies the overcomer as those born of God. Anyone who is born of God will not live in sin and is already an overcomer hence will endure to the end.
What of 1 Peter 2vv 20 warning against backsliding?
Again this is actually a warning a gains false prophets and false believers.

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Note they recieve the holy commandment but turned away
They know the way of righteousness but the next verse finally proved they weren't saved.

Note a washed sow still remains a sow, there is no change.
Compare that with someone who is born again, who has undergone a real spiritual change from the carnal nature into a new nature (If any man be in christ he is a new creature).
However in 2 Peter 2, the dog remains the dog and the sow remains the sow even after enlightenment meaning this individual(s) were never saved.

helinues:
Abi

The southern Kaduna that some people want to be using as reference points, just like Benue, the attacks have been reprisal attack. We only read about when Fulani attacks, but we hardly read when the Fulani are at the receiving end

Abdul! Smh so the killing of farmers in ondo was reprisal attack, killing of farmers all around the country is reprisal attack? defending terrorists, you are a boko haram!/ iswap sympathizer at heart just deceiving the gullible.

ruffhandu:
I doubt if you did. Your question were preconceived on first perusal of my post. See below also as you compare the facts on the desk of the congressman.

"Today, religious violence in Nigeria is dominated by the Boko Haram insurgency, which aims to establish an Islamic state in Nigeria. Since the turn of the 21st century, 62,000 Nigerian Christians have been killed by the terrorist group Boko Haram, Fulani herdsmen and other groups."

If you are in the theater, you will come to terms with these facts.

Actually freemasonry is an enlightenment cult and worship the goddess of enlightenment.

Truthseeker10:
StillDtruth claims that God Almighty calls Jesus God but Jesus is not the Almighty God in Hebrews 1:8. He claims that The angels worship Jesus who is not the Almighty God. Is he correct?

tctrills
StillDtruth
Dtruthspeaker
Emusan
Immaculatesense
Janosky
MaxInDHouse
Steep
Aemmyjah
doffman
cornelboy
Westerhoffe
Everyday247
gohf
Kobojunkie
Ken4Christ
Gabrielshow24

Your contribution to his claims are welcome.

what is the difference between Almighty God and God?
The bible says there is only one God not one Almighty God and another smaller god.

Economy is going down the drain

ANCESTORIAL8:
I'd really like if you can take sometime to elaborate further Sir.

Just two lines isn't doing a lot of justice to the topic don't you think ? 🤔

Actually we are not God/gods. The idea of a creature become god, came from lucifer who is the devil, he was so proud because of his beauty, intelligence and smartness that he thought he could make himself equal with God but he was defeated and cast out and he became the devil.
He sold same lie to eve and made her disobeyed God which in turn gave Adam to eat and disobey God. The result was they also fell like lucifer and along with the whole human race. He is selling such illusion of becoming God to people today hence making them to believe and live in this delusion.

A cat trying to be like a bird is only deceiving himself. God is God and man is man.
Basically all ancient mysticism and religion has this same philosophy of man becoming gods/God many idols are named after people who did exploit in their days, ancestors are revered as deities, the teachings of ascended masters, even evolution of humans to become a greater race etc all these are from the luciferian teaching.

Nnamdipapa:
What you call "free will" is actually an ultimatum: Accept me or burn forever.
The same types of bogus free will that exist when you decide to hand over your cash to a robber who has a gun pointed at your head.

By your logic, the government threaten you to obey the law because if you don't you are going to jail.
The schools threaten student to go to school because if they don't they won't be given certificate, parents threaten their children to obey them because if they don't then there will be repercussions. You leave by threat if you don't do them there would be one repercussion or the other. In fact you threatened your wife to marry you else she wouldn't be qith you in your house.

ANCESTORIAL8:
Is that how you learn new things, by having a preconceived notion about something before knowing anything about it ?

I understand the intense indoctrination in our society is quite remarkable actually, but also believe we can spare a few brain cells to think for ourselves.

Kindly walk me through your learning process when you're not LUCIFERIAN this and that.

you are blind, what you call new is not new at all, it is very ancient.

Gabrielshow24:
Or better question, where was Jehovah himself?

After all he is not transcendental👀...

He needs the universe to exist🙃.
A localized God🧐

They keep contradicting themselves.

Truthseeker10:
Is being a Jehovah’s Witness or not the topic here? Are you planning to attack a denomination instead of facing the issue on ground?

answer the question, first

This is gnosticism a luciferian belief.

What are the contradictions? cc tctrills

Nnamdipapa:
My people, let us discuss this scenario.

Let's assume your just got married and you have the power to see the future, now, looking into the future, you discovered that your wife will get pregnant and give birth to the biggest armed robber in Nigeria who will end up killing thousands of people, will you still go ahead and have that child assuming you have the power to prevent the pregnancy of that particular child?

I need your honest answer to this question.

Why do car manufacturers make cars even when they know that people will get accidents with it and die?

Nnamdipapa:
Not abandoned but sent to a hell prepared by God for such a purpose according to your Bible. A hell prepared to threaten people into accepting Christ.

you are just grasping at straws. Hell is God's jail for sinners and a place where people who reject God finally get what they wanted, which is a place without God.
If a tenant's house rents expires do you continue to allow them stay in your house? Rather you throw them out.

God is throwing out all that reject him.

Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Also called outer darkness.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Darkness is absence of light and God is light.


You have zero argument and your accusation of threat s baseless.

You seem to forget that care is part of love.
Rejecting God's love means rejecting his care such a person would justly be abandoned for all of eternity.

Nnamdipapa:
This one is very interesting and I will attempt to address the points raised by you.

Starting with your first point, a just judge does not impose an infinite punishment (eternal damnation) for a finite crime (a lifetime of disbelief or sin). In human justice systems, punishments are proportionate to the crime. If a judge sentenced someone to eternal torture for stealing, we would call that judge unjust. So why is God just when He punishes people infinitely for a finite lifetime of mistakes or disbelief?

Between slapping a Judge and slapping a class room teacher which carries a higher punishment and why?

Moreover, if God is all-powerful, He does not need a "payment" to forgive—He could simply forgive out of mercy, as humans are expected to do. The idea that God "must" punish sin contradicts His supposed omnipotence.

The scripture says righteousness and justice are the habitation of God's throne.
Psalms 97:2 Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne.

God is a God of character, as a righteous and just God he will never allow sinners go unpunished.

Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Comparing God to a rejected lover fails because in human relationships, rejection does not result in eternal torment. If a woman rejects a man, she does not get sentenced to lifelong suffering; she simply moves on. A loving God would not say, "Love me, or burn forever." That is not love—it is coercion.

when you reject light, who would you blame for getting darkness? When a woman reject a man she is not entitled in sharing marital love with that man.
1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
God is love, rejecting him means rejecting love and that only means one thing a loveless existence for all of eternity.

If a drowning man rejects a life jacket, he dies naturally. But in this analogy, God is not simply allowing natural consequences —He is actively creating the rules of salvation and punishment. If He designed the system, why make rejection of the "life jacket" (Christ) result in eternal suffering instead of just letting people cease to exist?

You seem not to understand the life jacket represent God, the sea or river represents sin, rejecting God means we drown in sin.
God's rules are just, it is just for you to have darkness when you reject light, to have misery and torment when you reject love and goodness.
The rules of salvation are according to God's righteousness and loving nature. He made the rules that without life jacket a man may drown, It is only just for you to reap what you sow.
Eternal suffering is a result of sin.

person who rejects debt forgiveness may face financial ruin, but they are not tortured forever. The difference here is that God’s punishment is not just "ruin"—it is eternal suffering. If a person does not believe in Christ, why is the only alternative infinite torment rather than a neutral consequence?

financial ruin is torture, do you know the torment people whose finances are totally ruined go through?
What do you mean by neutral punishment?
Why will a judge sentence a murderer to life in prisonment if it only took 5 mins to murder a man? Hope you see your logic

Choosing between light and darkness assumes all people have a clear and equal understanding of the truth. But people are born into different religions, cultures, and beliefs. Why would a just God punish people who never had a real chance to know Him? If He truly desires everyone to be saved, why make the system so ambiguous and dependent on specific religious knowledge?
Saying hell is simply "separation from God" does not remove the problem—it reinforces it. If God is the source of all goodness, [/b]then punishing people by removing His presence is deliberately inflicting suffering.[/b] A loving God would not say, "You are free to reject me, but if you do, I will make sure you suffer for eternity." That is not free will—it is an ultimatum.

You must be joking, why should God continue to force himself on people who rejected him? When a woman reject you do you continue to hang around her? GOD removing His presence is what causes the torment in hell.
You can not reject love and still continue to recieve love, it will be unjust. God can never be unjust.

every human have a form of knowledge of God even though imperfect but enough to draw them to him.

A truly loving and just God would not create a system where the only choices are worship me or suffer eternally. That is not free will; that is divine blackmail. If salvation is truly about love, then rejecting it should not result in infinite suffering—it should simply mean non-existence or a less severe consequence.

Why would God create an unjust system? God is love rejecting God means rejecting love itself.
You seem not to understand that love, peace wisdom, etc are all attributes of God.

You cannot reject God and still expect God to someone how force himself on you, that becomes unjust and unloving.

Truthseeker10:
Kindly show me where I said the above statement.

Kindly don't forget to answer the question you asked and the question I asked.

Are you a Jehovah's Witness? Yes or No

Nnamdipapa:
I love your analogy but you are wrong and I will explain why.
The doctor is not responsible for the sickness and the death, they are factors beyond the control of the doctor or the patient.

If the patient fails to accept treatment, they would die which will not be the fault of the doctor. I will repeat for emphasis " THE DOCTOR DID NOT CREATE SICKNESS OR DEATH".

Now, let's come to the God of the Bibe, if you refuse to accept Christ, he has threatened to throw you into a lake of fire " WHICH HE SPECIFICALLY PREPARED" for that purpose.

Steve Job, the founder of Apple, had a chance to be alive had he accepted the cancer treatments at the onset of his cancer, he refused which lead to his death. The doctor did not prepare his death and never responsible in any way regardless of the choices of Job.

I can show countless verses of the scripture where the Bible God threatened hell for the rejection of Jesus no matter how you try to explain it away, it is right there in the Bible so freewill is dead on arrival.

Though I used the medical scenario but that is just one dimension.
God never created sin. Death is the just judgment of God upon sin.
Here is another analogy, (justice)

If you commit a crime and you are brought before a judge who will condem you justly for your crime but somebody showed up to pay the fine for you but you rejected do you beginning to blame the judge or the person that offers to pay the fine?

Here is another (Love)
If a man ask a woman to marry him and she refuses him but chose an abusive man, though he would have being a loving husband to her but because he love her he would let her make her decision and respect it.

Yet here is another (rescue)
If man is drowning and somebody threw a life jacket at him but he instead rejected the life jacket thinking he could swim but end up drowning, who should we blame.

Here is another (Debt)

Supposing you are owning a huge some of money, but the person you owed decided to forgive you the debt and set you free but you said no! You don't need his help. When you fail to pay and your name is finally registered as a debtor and you financial status is ruined, who will you blame.

Here is another! (Light vs darkness)
Supposing you were offered a room well lit and furnished but you rejected it for a dark and terrible room. Who would you blame when you are suffering in that room.

Our sins demands we be punished and that punishment is death ( eternal separation from God) but God offers to pay the penalty and offers us forgiveness and reconciliation. If we reject his offer we will justly bear our punishment.

Hell is a place of separation from God. Hell is terrible because of separation from God

God eventually abandons those who don't want him for all of eternity.

Truthseeker10:
Kindly show me where I said the above.
You can answer the question that you asked above including my own question.

Are you not a Jehoavh witness? Don't you believe Jesus is the first creation by God? Meaning Jesus was created before heaven according to Jehovah's witnesses

Truthseeker10:
So when the present heaven and earth will be destroyed, where will angels and humans live before the new one is created?

According to you Jehovah created Jesus first, so when Jehovah created Jesus before the heavens where was Jesus?

Gabrielshow24:
You should have first asked him what heaven he alludes to? 🤨

After all from Jewish traditions, The universe is numbered among the heavens🤔

I am assuming he means the literal heaven not an allegorical one.

Truthseeker10:
So are you saying that the planet earth and heaven where angels live are sinners?

Nowhere have I said that, the first acts of rebellion started from heaven. According to the book of Revelation God is making everything anew and according to Isaiah the former one will not be called to remembrance.
Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Are you saying that humans would live on planet earth forever?

In the new earth yes but not this present one.

Nnamdipapa:
We always hear our fellow Christian folks talk about free will as it relates to God, does the concept of free will truly exist?

Ok, here is my scenario. an armed robber comes into your home, points a loaded gun at your head and demands you hand over all the money you have on you, at that point, do you have a free will if you eventually hand over your cash to the robber?

Now with God of the Bible, it is either you believe or you burn in eternity forever. Where is the free will?

What I can see is a similarity between the free will when confronted with the barrel of the gun. Give your money or get blasted by bullets, give me like
your life or roast in hell eternally.

Both are very similar and free will does not exist in both scenarios.

What do you think.

This is a wrong scenario. The right scenario is a very sick man at the point of death being given a choice by a doctor to be healed or he die. If accepts the treatment by the doctor he will be healed and restored and he will be grateful to the doctor.
God is not threatening us to accept him or he throw us into hell but rather our sin which has already done a lot of damage to us (just take a look at the mess of the world today), our sin is what will lead us to hell ( No sin can live with God). God is only offering us a hope of redemption from sin, if we accept him he will save us from sin and we will be eternally grateful he did.
If a doctor tells a sick man that the only way he could be treated is by operation else he will die, Is he threatening the patient or telling the plain truth?

When Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life he was telling us the plain truth. Jesus is the only cure to our sickness, if we reject him our sickness will doom us forever.

Truthseeker10:
So when God destroys the heaven where angels live and destroy the earth where humans live, who would live in the New heaven and earth?

what kind of question is this. The purpose of the erasure is to create a new heaven and earth for his angels and men, a new heaven and earth that has no record of sin and Its effects.

Truthseeker10:
If the earth that is to be destroyed is this planet earth that we are living on, who are those staying in the heaven that would be destroyed?

You are not making sense, It is not those staying in the heavens but the heavens itself.

Truthseeker10:
Is the heaven the one that the angels live in?

yes It includes the heavens where angels live. You guys believe Jesus is God's first creation right? So according to your belief God created Jesus before the heavens?

Truthseeker10:
So what is the old heaven and earth, and what will he do to them?

The present one, One created in Genesis 1:1. He is going to destroy them, they will vanish out of existence.

Truthseeker10:
Oga you need sleep.

I have corrected it. It was a my keyboard glitch

Truthseeker10:
So which one?

God will create a new heaven and a new earth.

Truthseeker10:
.show me where I denied that.

never said you denied that only pointed it out, to show you that the fact that Jesus is called the servant of God does not mean he is not more than a servant.

Of course the new heaven and new earth is not this present one.

Truthseeker10:
John 17:3.

King James Bible
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

A Son can be messenger and a Son at the same time. Jesus took up the role as a servant of God in order to fulfill God's plan.