₦airaland Forum

Nnamdipapa:
Did Jesus die for our sins?

1. let's start with the obvious. Who was there? Christians love to say, Jesus died for our sins, but ask yourself, who witnessed this? Nobody alive today existed back then. Everything people believe is based on what someone else said, not what they saw.
And the earliest gospel, Mark, was written 40 plus years after Jesus supposedly died. By people who never met him. So we're not talking about history. We're talking about hearsay, passed off as fact.

40 years after Jesus died was well withing or closely after the eyewitness time. Do you even know when John died?
Are you serious in asking for people today to witness what happened over 2000 years ago?

2. let's use the Bible against itself. If Jesus died for your sins, then, why do you still suffer? Why do you still get punished? Why do you still need to tithe, pray, obey, and repent? That sounds more like a contract than a sacrifice. And remember this verse, Faith without works is dead, James 2, 17. That means if you don't act, nothing happens. So it's not Jesus making it happen. It's you.

The purpose of Jesus is not for you to have all you want neither does it mean you don't suffer or have to work again.

3.That means you're more powerful than Jesus. Think about it. If you have to believe in Jesus to activate what he did, and if nothing works unless you put your faith in it, then that means your belief is what's creating the result, not Jesus. You're the plug. You're the energy source. You're the one making it real. In your mind.

faith in Jesus is not to get things working in your life, I don't know where you get that.

4.You manifested Jesus into existence in your head. We were programmed to believe that God is outside of us. That Jesus is the only path. That our salvation depends on worship, not understanding. But here's the truth. You've never seen Jesus. You've never seen God. You were told about them, and your mind accepted it. That's not truth. That's mental programming. The human mind is so powerful, it can manifest belief into illusion.

Did you see the Nigerian Civil War? Yet you believe it happened. You are not making sense

5. Imagine you turned that belief toward yourself. If you believed in you, the way you believe in Jesus, you'd heal, you'd grow, you'd transform, you'd unlock your true spiritual power. That's why they gave you a savior. So you'd never realize you already are one.

Jesus provided evidence that he is the saviour with the way he lived, died and rose from the grave, with don't need to do anything for Jesus to be who he is.
I suspect you think you are god or something like that which is easily dismissed because God is not creation neither can creation be God.

6.Even the Bible accidentally told you the truth. Jesus said, the kingdom of God is within you. But nobody preaches that part. Because if you found the kingdom inside yourself, you'd stop looking for it in churches, crosses, and colonizer books. Step seven, Christianity is built on blind following. We don't study, we believe. We don't ask, we repeat. We pay pastors to read a book we're too afraid to question. And those pastors, also lost. The blind leading the blind, literally. And we call that faith. And we call that faith. When really, it's mental slavery disguised as salvation.

When Jesus said the kingdom of God is withing you Jesus was talking to a group of persons called the pharisee who were still waiting for the kingdom, Jesus told them that kingdom was already in their midst, the kingdom was what Jesus himself was preaching in their midst. Read to context

Final truth, Jesus didn't die for your sins. You were told that story so you'd never question your chains. But once you wake up, you'll realize the power is you. The kingdom is you, The savior is you, Awakening truth. If they need your belief to exist, they're not gods, you are.

Credits-Didyouknow2431-Tiktok

If you need to save yourself, it means you are an imperfect human and hence cannot save himself neither others hence you are contradicting yourself.

The old testament laws has being abolished. The new testament law is the law of the Spirit.
Christ didn't come to destroy the law but to fulfill it meaning during christ life time the law was still very much invoke but was fulfilled (ran it course) by his death abolished. The purpose of the law is to lead men to Christ.

That is because they are into the occult. It is like eating his flesh and drinking his blood. A satanic imitation of the last supper that Christians do to represent christ sacrifice.

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Christians would receive new bodies at the resurrection after which we go to be with christ in heaven for a short time, after which we descend with christ to rule and reign with christ for a thousand years on earth.
After the thousand years are over, this whole universe will be obliterated and disappear out of existence, then the judgment takes place after which God will created a new unverse far better, richer and durable than this present one, it is a eternal universe, it contains the materials in this present universe but in far better quality and quantity and also contains materials that do not exist in this present one and all in abundance, the spiritual dimension and the physical dimension would not be separated unlike this present one they would be unified. Meaning it is a universe that is hyper, super and duper awesome in every way, God will come to live on earth with Jesus, it is awesome.

Yes we can eat and drink in our resurrected body, our senses would be sharper, smarter faster more accurate, plus we would have other abilities we don't, plus our beauty would not fade, we won't grow old, nor get sick, it would be eternal and very very powerful. We will be as Jesus is.
Jesus could go through walls, change his appearance, ascend and descend, appear and disappear to anywhere at will, he shone will brightness far greater than the sun. Our resurrected body will radiate like. In this body will live in the new heaven and earth and serve God will our abilities forever.
I can't wait for it.🤗

I suspect this is part of the agreement with the IMF, world Bank and other globalist cartels bent on controlling nations. As it is well know that they are pushing a one world government and a one world economy where the majority would be controlled by the few, that is how they hope to create their utopian, which is a new world order where nobody have any rights neither owns anything but are under the iron grip of the one at the top of the pyramid.

Jesus Christ has exposed these false gods that is why the devil is in pains now, he is bitter and this bitterness is reflected in the people opposing Christianity.

All evidence points to Jesus to be the God in the flesh by his life, his death and his resurrection. Meaning the way Jesus lived (A perfect sinless life), died ( he died forgiving his enemies) and rose again after three days, separated him as the truth and hence exposed African deities, Islam, Buddha etc as false hence the bitterness.

All other gods apart for the true God yahweh, are no gods at all, they are all created by humans to look like them. they are all a reflection of human desires nothing more.

22jumpstreet:
He is a myth and you are wasting your whole life on it. The colonial masters that brought the religion to it has abandoned it. Almost all the churches in north London are now pubs or sold to Muslims....ño money to take care of it vos no attendance...
Jesus is the Roman empire invention, to control the masses...

See ignorance, the oldest church on earth is in Africa. Christianity came to Europe just as it came to Africa, colonial masters has nothing to do with it. So Alenxender, Augustus ceaser, Socrates, etc are myth? Delulu

alobright17:
so yeshua no be human being invented the language? This is one defending what he don’t know

So history is a myth? Go and research about the historicity of Jesus Christ and stop displaying ignorance.

alobright17:
Is real Abi ? When did they invented letter J ? Jesus na man made story from white people .

Jesus is just a alternative pronunciation of yeshua and it is a non issue. In my language it is produced Jesu.

Lucifyre:
"and the books of the gospel are reliable historical narrativ of the life and death of Jesus."

This is an outright lie, this is 2025 please let's ease off on peddling outright disingenuous claims as facts. How can the narrative be historical when it was written decades after by anonymous non - eyewitnesses with inconsistent narratives that contradicts not just itself but what we know from the available historical data. Yes the gospel are historical sources but when they're analyzed they fall apart.

The only events considered plausible from the gospels about Jesus' life was that he was baptized and he was crucified nothing more. Everything else especially the supernatural claims have zero evidence or data to support them and on analysis some are even influenced by older existing motifs from nearby cultures and religions.

even historians who anti Christianity cannot deny the historicity of Christ. The writers of the gospels are not unknown they are Mathew mark Luke and John.
So Jesus is not a myth after all, right? You guys are in deep trouble.

Whether you believe the gospel or not. Whether you go to church of not, it does not matter who you are and where you are, everyone will give account to God for how they live.
Trust me, you don't want to stand before a holy and righteous God to face in in Judgment you will 100% regret it.

Jesus Did the greatest thing for you, not by giving you material things that won't help you at the end of the day buy providing himself is a substitute for your sin so you don't have to be condemned this would only happen if you put your faith in him and his work on your behalf otherwise, you face the consequence of your sin.

alobright17:
No Jesus came anywhere all Na story from a book and no verification made on it .

Jesus is a real historical figure and the books of the gospel are reliable historical narrativ of the life and death of Jesus. Your calender were dated base on this historical figure Jesus.

Node911:
People still believe in scripts written by their colonial masters.

So when Jesus return, some people go burn in hell so that God and angels can have enough asun and barbecue to eat. LOL

Ignorant man which colonial masters wrote books that were hundreds and thousands of years older than them?

tosyne2much:
From the dept of my heart, I'm just tired of hearing this same thing for nearly 3 decade of my life

Jesus this, Jesus that yet the country continues to wallot in poverty

The problem of poverty is caused by poor choices by Nigerians. We promote self centeredness and make materialism as the goal and all these is tied to the problem of Sin.

Jesus is number 1, nobody comes close, he is The Lord of Lords and The king of kings, no one come close.

Many scientists are now realizing that there is God, and that Jesus is Lord.
Many scientists are now embracing intelligent design instead of the theory of mindless and unguarded process of evolution.
Physicts have realized that the universe (space-time) have a definite beginning, many evolutionists are calling for a new theory of evolution instead of the Darwinian theory of evolution as more evidence of complexities beyond Darwinian evolution emerges.
With advances of technology, shocking discoveries have being made, for example simple cell have being found not to be simple after all.

I am tired of going round in circles.
This has being fun.
Once again this is what I copied from A.i review.

The scientific consensus is that the universe is not eternal. The Big Bang theory is the leading scientific theory for the universe's origin, suggesting it began around 13.8 billion years ago. This model suggests that the universe is not infinite and has a beginning in time.
Here's why the concept of an eternal universe is not supported by current scientific understanding:
Big Bang Theory:
The Big Bang theory posits that the universe expanded from an incredibly hot, dense state, suggesting a finite beginning.
Expansion of the Universe:
Observations of the universe's expansion provide evidence against an eternally static or unchanging state.
Entropy:
The concept of entropy, which dictates that systems tend toward disorder, would suggest that an infinitely old universe would be in a state of uniform temperature, with no structure or life.
Finite vs. Infinite:
The question of whether the universe is finite or infinite is separate from whether it's eternal. The universe could be infinite in size but still have a finite age.
Philosophical Considerations:
While the idea of an eternal universe has been explored in philosophy, it's not supported by scientific evidence.

Is it logical to support what has evidence or what does not have evidence?
I am done.

CoolUsername:
Depends on how you look at it. The Big Bang is the process whereby spacetime began to rapidly expand. Therefore if all observable space came from the Big Bang, it follows that time did the same.

not observable space, BUT Space and time itself.

How do you measure time before the Big Bang? Is it even possible? Time is relative to entropy right so how do we measure time of nothing is changing?

Check out at this scenario: imagine everything in the observable universe was on pause for 10 minutes (in this scenario, you are an outside observer, like a movie viewer). From inside the universe, it would be impossible to notice the passage of the 10 minutes.

I'm of the opinion that time started with the Big Bang. For anything to preceed it that would mean we must have some form of "super time" that things were operating on beforehand. I'm of the opinion that there is no before.

Time is time whether super or duper time. If time does not exist before the big bang then it does not exist. If fact physicts are saying there is nothing like time before the Big bang.

You are beginning to see the problem with eternal universe in whatever shape or form. it does not just work.

evidence actually goes Against eternal universe. By the way when scientists said the universe began at be big bang, it means before the big bang there was no space an there was no time, what is happening is typical atheists dodging and deflecting, one is saying that the logical thing to do is to follow the least assumption, which have no shred of evidence while rejecting what has evidence. Unknown to him what he thought was least assumption whatever that even mean has being found to be actually illogical.
There was actually no space and time before the beginning of time meaning physics itself could not have existed at all, matter couldn't have existed because the will be no space for matter to exist and there will be no time for matter to existence.
Smarter atheists are actually propounded new theory of higher dimension or multiverses but al these does not actually solve the problem but rather compound it and pushes further.

CoolUsername:
I'm not saying it's impossible but much like the multiverse hypothesis, doesn't it just kick the can further down the road?

They just raise questions as to what started the cycle or what caused the multiverse to come to be. But we don't have these answers.

However, what we do know is that the universe rapidly expanded 13.8 billion years ago. In the absence of any further evidence, the most logical path to take should be the one with the least assumptions which would be that the universe has always existed in some form. This can then be disproven once evidence suggests otherwise.

Actually

The universe likely does not have an eternal existence. Key evidence against an eternal universe includes the Big Bang theory, the Second Law of Thermodynamics, and the expansion of the universe. The Big Bang theory posits that the universe originated from an initial singularity, not an eternal state. The Second Law of Thermodynamics suggests that a universe that has existed forever would have reached a state of heat death, which is not what we observe. Additionally, the expansion of the universe, observed through redshift, indicates that it has a finite age, not an eternal one.

.

Everyday247:
Wow! 😲
You're a theist that believes in the big bang?!
you're the first I've seen on Nairaland.
congratulations! 🎉 👏 🥳

The big bang does not conflict the existence of God.

According to the big bang theory, a singularity expanded into what we know as the universe. But then questions remain:
1. where did this singularity come from?
2. How long had this singularity been around before it expanded in the form of the big bang?

What if someone claims that this singularity has always existed (eternal), how would you counter this?

mathematically it is not possible for the singularity to have existed for all eternity and also physically it is not possible. If the singularity has being there for all eternity what kept it as singularity why did it after eternity dsuddenly exploded remember eternity means endless time, so it makes no logical sense and no evidence what sover for the singularity to have being there for all eternity.
Physicists have tried to work with the model of singularity to be eternal but it does not simply work.
You might think it makes sense but smarter scientists have tried the model but it all failed.

If it worked why do you think atheist scientist like Hawkins could work with it.
The only model that works is a universe that is not eternal.

Off Topic question: As a theist that believes in the big bang:
1. How do you reconcile your religious beliefs that the world is ten thousand years old with the approximately 14 billion years of the big bang theory?
2. if you believe in the big bang theory proposed by science, do you also believe in the theory of evolution also proposed by that same science?
3. I thought Christian theists believed in a 6 day creation not the big bang theory?

The big bang does not conflict the Christian world view. There are different explanation.

Yes it does.
If something doesn't exist, it cannot be found anywhere in the universe, which makes it spaceless.
If something doesn't exist, it won't be found at any point in time (past, presence and future), which makes it timeless.
An event that never occurred is eternal e.g when will someone who was never born die? the answer is never.
Anything that never begun can never end. (can be said to be eternal)

According to you anything that does not occupy space immaterial and times does not exist right?
Answer this question does space exist? If yes which space does space occupy? And According to your world view space must be timeless right and immaterial else where the material that make up space occup?

What's the difference between the statements: " intelligence must come from intelligence" and "Only intelligence can create intelligence"?

seriously, is this even a question? What is the difference between "only a human can give birth to a human" and "every human must give birth to a human"?

This is logical leap. How is something having a beginning evidence for creation?

it is not a logical leap. Having a beginning means it has a starting point, if the universe began to exist then it is not eternal.

If science has not proven the existence of something means it can be either false or true since no confirmation can be made.

Is science the only way to get knowledge? Can you scientifically prove your answer? Can you scientifically prove moral values?

Science is "currently" the only way to prove the existence of something. If there are any other methods of proving the existence of something, they haven't been discovered yet.

have you heard of history? Can science prove that the Nigeria civil war happened?

When and where were they debunked?
And who debunked them?
How were they debunked?

Not outrightly debunked but there is no evidence but as a matter of fact there is evidence against it, which is the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Mathematics is an abstract concept. Mathematics is neither sentient nor alive. Mathematics cannot create things. Mathematics cannot think.
Are you saying that your god is abstract?
Or that your god is neither sentient nor alive?
Or that your god can't think?
Or that your god cannot create things?

Evil and goodness are characteristics or properties of things.

Love is an electro chemical process that occurs inside brains.

Consciousness is a process that occurs inside the brains of living things.

Do they exist? What is their material and what space does they occupy?
So love is an electro chemical process? Has it be proven? Provide link.
Has consciousness being proven scientifically, prove link to it?

Human values come from the brains of humans.

So if people do not see anything wrong with rape does that make it OK?
There are many people who don't see anything wrong with it. Since in their Brian rape is OK, does that make it right?

Everyday247:
what are these evidences that show that the universe is not eternal?
You did not answer my question on how to determine if something is eternal or not.
If someone claims that the sun is eternal, how do we verify this claim?

Simple evidence and logical deduction. Evidence shows the sun is not eternal and gets what so is the universe.

The evidence points to the universe not being eternal but having a beginning, likely through the Big Bang.[/b] This evidence includes:
Expansion of the universe:
The observed expansion of the universe suggests it has been growing from a smaller, denser state.
Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB):
The CMB, leftover radiation from the early universe, provides a snapshot of the universe shortly after the Big Bang, indicating it was not always at its current state.
General Relativity:
The theory of general relativity, tested by numerous observations, predicts that spacetime cannot be static and must either expand or contract, suggesting a beginning point.
Second Law of Thermodynamics:
This law states that the universe is trending towards disorder, meaning it cannot have been eternally in a stable state of equilibrium.
Mathematical models:
Some mathematical models, like the Penrose-Hawking Singularity Theorem and Borde-Guth-Vilenkin Theorem, suggest the universe began from an initial singularity.
Observations of the universe's structure:
The distribution of galaxies and the existence of large-scale structures, such as superclusters, point to a universe that evolved from an initial, more homogeneous state.
Evolution of matter:
The formation of heavier elements in stars and the subsequent distribution of these elements throughout the universe suggests an ongoing process of evolution, not a static, eternal state.

Also as a side note, spaceless, timeless and immaterial are attributes that can be found in nonexistent things. The definition of existence is something that occupies space and is under the effect of time.

that definition does not apply to whatever is outside of space and time.

Firstly, who established that the universe is a creation?
As far as current science is concerned the origin of the universe is unknown.
Secondly, you are the one that created the category of "intelligence that must come from other intelligence". And god is an intelligent being, which automatically falls into the category of "intelligent beings that must be created". You made a contradictory statement.

You are straw Manning. I never said intelligence must come from intelligence but rather only intelligence can create intelligence same with life, only life can create life.

What you said is that "intelligence begets intelligence" and "life cannot come from non life, and god automatically falls under the category of living/intelligent which makes god subject to the same rule you imposed on all intelligence/life.
Also, god is also an effect and therefore requires a cause.
You keep using the terms created and creation, do you have any evidence for creation?

Evidence for creation is the fact that the universe has a beginning

I'm surprised that you are talking about science based on evidence, while making unscientific claims without evidence.
Do you have any evidence that the concept of eternal things/eternity exists?
Science so far, has not proven the existence of eternal things.

If science has not proven that eternal things exist does that mean they don't exist?
Is science the only way to get knowledge? If yes, can you scientifically prove your answer?

Who told you that there are only two possibilities?
So because you can only think of two possibilities means that there only two? Scientifically speaking, there may be many other possibilities that we are not aware of. Just because you can only think of two, doesn't mean that there are only two.

While the evidence say that the universe had a beginning, I do not rule out the possibility of infinite or eternal cycles of universes i.e universes that came before our own and universes that will come after.

Did you Even read what you wrote, you just proved me right. All the possibilities you brought out are all example of eternal universe, which by the way has being debunked, if you are really serious to know the truth you will actually go and find out why they were rejected.

Yes I'm a materialist. I believe only in the physical reality because it can be tested and experimentally verified.
Meanwhile there's no means to verify non material realities meaning there's no way to differentiate between them and falsehoods.

Good at least you are honest. Now answer this, Is mathematics material in nature? Does mathematics exist?
What color is evil, goodness, love? What kind of material is consciousness made off?
Where does the human value come from?

Everyday247:
This raises questions:
Firstly, how does one know if something (God or anything else) is eternal?
Secondly, how do you know that the universe isn't eternal?

All evidence shows that the universe cannot be eternal.
God by basic definition is eternal else he would not be God. The basic definition of what God is, is that he is timeless, spaceless and immaterial personal being.

I don't understand how this analogy relates to the question. What are the different categories the sun and moon belong to?
What are the different categories God and the universe belong to?

God belongs to the category of what is eternal while the universe belong to the category of what is not eternal. I used the sun and the moon to demonstrate how categories work. The sun belong to the category of things that generate their light while the moon belong to another category of things that depend on others for light. It is therefore illogical to try to force the sun into the moon's category or vice versa. That is what you are trying to do trying to force God into categories of created things.

What is that definition of God that makes god eternal?
Why do you say creation* must depend on God and not something else?

The definition of God that makes him eternal is because he is before all created things and therefore cannot be part of created things.
I say creation depend on God because creation itself is an effect and every effect has a cause.

*It's too early to conclude that the universe is a creation when we currently do not understand how the universe works and it's nature.

Do you have any evidence that the unverse may be eternal? Science is base on evidence and not wisful thinking, if there is another evidence that the unverse is eternal then the current understanding will change but so far all evidence prove the unverse has a beginning.

You are making hasty generalisations by saying "we all know that something must be eternal", because first of all, we currently don't know how the universe work.
And also, is there any such thing as "outside the universe"?

dude there only two possibities either the unverse has always existed in any shape of form (multiverse, parallel universe etc included) or something outside of the unverse brought it into being. This has nothing to do with our understanding of how the universe works.

The universe is defined as space and time. So it doesn't make sense to say "outside the universe" because "outside" is an attribute of space. If there's a "here" and "there", it implies a presence of space. Unless you are claiming that there's another universe outside our universe. Or that our universe is in another universe which is a wild claim.

The fact that you don't understand it, does not make it untrue. What matters is the evidence to what we feel is true or possible and the evidence is, the unverse (space-time) has a beginning (it has not always being.

You are probably a materialist that is why you think the only reality that existent is the physical reality however evidence says the physical reality has a beginning.

budaatum:
I am reading your "being" as been. Correct me if i misunderstand please.

The assumption that there are "only two possible explanations", I doubt, considering the numerous universe creation narratives believed. In fact, isn't this discussion the dispute of myths themselves, or would you like to argue anyone saw a big bang?

yes there are myths and what's not, that is why evidence is uttermost importance to ascertain truth.
There might not be a big bang or there might be but however every evidence points to the direction of a universe that has a beginning.

That said, yes, I agree that the universe must either have always been or it gradually came into being, and evidence suggests the latter at least from our earthly observation, that it gradually came into being, hence the many creation records like "God said" and big bang, all we humans way of understanding what we observe and writing it in books to disseminate it to those who can not observe for themselves.

yes true, humans observe and gather evidence then interpret it.

Your claim though that "If the universe has always being then there would have being an infinite amount of time before we could ever get here, meaning we would not have existed at all", I don't think I understand.

It seems like you are claiming that if a very large and long amount of time had passed, we humans would not have existed.

Can you explain what you mean by "infinite amount of time", please, and tell me why say, if the universe was born 10 million years ago, humans would not exist.

Alright, what I meant when I said that if the universe has always being then we wouldn't have being. Supposing you were walking on road going to a point at the end of the road but however the road is infinite would you ever get to your destination? Now try and reverse it supposing you were at an infinite time backward in the past would you have gotten to today? The answers are NO this is because no matter the time spent there will always be an infinite time left to get to your destination hence if the unverse was eternal there will never be today.
What I mean by infinite is endless time. Sometimes it is used to mean an incredible amount that placing a particular number maybe difficulty but however it is not truly infinite.

I assume eternal means always been. Do atheists claim the universe is eternal?

In fact, I'll ask them myself.

Atheists! Is the universe eternal?

eternal can mean timeless.

First, I'm beginning to think it is scientists that you mean when you say atheist, like you abhor their use of their own senses.

This is rude and dishonest of you, you falsely accused me of something I didn't do.

Second, I do not think atheists claim their brain is a "product of cosmic accident". In fact, I'd say the atheists claim is their brain is a product of development over a very long period of time, and that humans have evolved consequently from single cells with perhaps some accidents along the way.

Should we ask atheists, again, maybe, instead of you trying to portray them as you seem to think they are?

@bolded you have said it yourself.

I never said atheism gave anything, I hope.


You are rude!

you seem to attribute intelligence to atheism.
I apologize for the harshness of language.

That doesn't then give anyone the right to impose their god in the gap and tell everyone to just believe it especially if those people would rather go ask and knock and seek with their own hearts and souls and minds and beings, is what I think.

Still, I have never heard an atheist or a scientist claim the universe is eternal. They think they so smart they know when the universe was born.

Nobody is imposing god of the gap but oftentimes atheists love impose time of the gap argument.
Before the discovery of the microwave background and the expansion of the universe the default belief in the scientific community was that the unverse was eternal till today there are ignorant atheists still believe that others with knowledge have switch to mutiverse theory or the universe popping from nothing which itself is only possible by supernatural power as only a supernatural power can produce things out of nothing hence they end with a miracle without a miracle worker.

Everyday247:
doesn't the bolded also apply to this god?

It cannot apply to God because he is eternal while the universe is not.
God and the universe do not belong to same category. Take for example the Sun and the Moon, the moon depend on the Sun for her light but the Sun does not depend on anything for its light, they both depend of different category.
God by definition is untreated eternal but the creation depends on God to have its being.

Whether we wants to agree with this we all know that something must be eternal either the universe or something or someone outside of the universe.

God is looking for those who will worship him in Spirit and in truth.

budaatum:
I have always maintained that something has to exist to go bang.


Read the italics below, and tell me if it is not trying to say the same as what you said above.

The Big Bang theory, while explaining the expansion and evolution of the universe we know, doesn't offer an explanation for what existed before the initial singularity. This singularity is a point of infinite density and temperature from which the universe is thought to have emerged.

There are only two possible explanation, it is either the universe came into existence or the universe has always being. If the universe has always being then there would have being an infinite amount of time before we could ever get here, meaning we would not have existed at all.
The cyclical model of universe has being debunked. the law of thermodynamics only works in one direction which is disorderliness essential hence the universe could not have being eternal at all leaving only one possibility which is that the universe truly came into being and was not eternal.

Funny. The technology learnt along their search (and by the way, they are not all atheists as more scientists since the beginning of time have been religious than not), has increase human life span alone, and that's apart from empowering you to converse with me over a long distance. Or would you rather we remain ignorant and without satellites?

Funny how atheists could trust their brains if their brains were a product of cosmic accident? By the way atheism didn't give anything, technology is a product of Intelligence and only intelligence can produce intelligence.

I am trying to convince myself that you are capable of accessing "all evidence", and I feel very certain you will not disappoint me.

You are deluded! Go and learn properly.

Imagine! You would think they read somewhere that they should ask and knock and seek with all their hearts and souls and minds and beings and they will know.

you are an ignorant person.

And yet it is possible to date when humans created their Gods, and God didn't exist everywhere, least not in my great grandfather's time until it was brought to where he was in a book. And there were Gods before God. And God isn't even the oldest God since some Gods have existed before God, though many have since died I admit.

But seriously. Teach me master.

You dont know what you are saying. Tautology everywhere. How can God create God can't you see the stupidity there?

Let me summarize for you, the unverse has a beginning because physically and mathematically it is not possible for the universe to be eternal hence many atheists are forced to say the universe came from nothing but because they cannot u derstand how they are trying to redefine the word nothing which drives them into more insanity others try to shift it to multiverse which only begs the question, the cyclical model has being rejected because it is not possible.
There is only one possibility that the unverse was created from a being outside space and time.
You trickishly dodge the part where life can only come from life. Till today there is no evidence that a non living thing can produce a living thing.
With all the advancement in science and technology yet nobody knows how to make the simplest cell.

An atheists believe the universe is infinite without any shred of evidence and are willing to go against all evidence for their foolishness.
How do explain somebody saying who created God?
Another hammer or atheism is the existence of life. According to science life must come from life and non life cannot produce life. Which means all life came from an eternal persistent life and this life is timeless and immaterial.

Intelligence is another dilemma of atheism, untelligence cannot create intelligence only intelligence can create intelligence. However, intelligence is a property of mind and mind is a property of personhood.
Therefore it logical to conclude that a spaceless. Immaterial, timeless and personal being exist who created all things, this is God in basic definition.

budaatum:
How do you know this? And why is God not an example?

Why is "Eternal and infinite life" an attribute of God?

In fact, do you understand that infinite means immeasurably or inconceivably great or extensive, and that because you are incapable of measuring a thing does not mean it is eternal?

The current cosmological science backed up by evidence shows that the universe ( space-time-material) has a beginning. It therefore mean that whatever brought the universe into being is outside the universe (space-time-material). Therefore that being is spaceless timesless and immaterial.
Many atheists scientists in trying to fix their poopoo try to conjure infinite unverses which ended up not helping them at all but infact pushed their dilemma further.
All evidence points that there is a being that is immaterial and outside of the universe that created them.
Now the stupid question atheists usually ask is "who created God or where did God come from?"
God cannot be created because he is timeless, God cannot come from anywhere because he is spaceless or else he will not be God.

Lor have mercy.