₦airaland Forum

gohf:
If we believe God created all things, then it includes his word and the angels. It even includes the throne he seats on, or did someone create it for him? Ofcourse not.

He created both the message and the messengers, the message came from him just as the messengers come from him.

God is God, He doesn't exist because of His word, His word exists because of Him, He is the source of all.

I like that the Hebrew word for create means cut out, if Jesus was cut out from God it means he was created.

gohf:
2John.1.7 There are a lot of smooth-talking charlatans loose in the world who refuse to believe that Jesus Christ was truly human, a flesh-and-blood human being. Give them their true title: Deceiver! Antichrist!

Steep

Janosky:
Oga, your claim D.O.A.

You can argue as much as you want, the complete Jewish bible disagrees with your Trinitarian view.

Oga Steep,You know what?
Different Bible translations by Trinitarians rejected your claim about Titus 2:13, notably the popular King James Bible and American Standard Version plus Catholic Church Bible translations & others.

John 17:3 Amplified Bible
Now this is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true [supreme and sovereign] God,


[b]
Oga, your ghost deity didn't give these Trinitarian translators the intel deceiving you.
Screenshot Evidences oooO

*Douay-Rheims Bible
Looking for the blessed hope and coming of the glory of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ,

**Catholic Public Domain Version
looking forward to the blessed hope and the advent of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ.

+++New American Bible
as we await the blessed hope, the appearance of the glory of the great God and of our savior Jesus Christ,

++++New Revised Standard Version
while we wait for the blessed hope and the manifestation of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
***** Translations from Aramaic
Lamsa Bible
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

******Aramaic Bible in Plain English
While we look for the blessed hope and the revelation of the glory of The Great God and Our Lifegiver, Yeshua The Messiah"
Oga, your claim refuted by your fellow Trinitarians.
Any Trinitarian view not supported by Catholic Church Bibles is D.O.A las las.

[/b]

gohf:
Matt.10.40 "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me.

Janosky:
That verse is a subject of controversy because it conflicting with other Bible verses Paul wrote about Jesus.
1 Corinthians 11:3, is God is superior to himself?
How many persons are spoken of in 1 Corinthians 11:3?

MaxInDHouse:
This means taking the form of lower beings (humans) as he is one of higher beings (angels)

gohf:
the great God not gods, and our Savior Jesus Christ. If you listened all the times I answered you, you won't be repeated your folly again and again.

Janosky:

See Hebrew 12:7-9 & Psalms 8:5. Luke 24:26.

(Jehovah) You made him (Jesus ) a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and honour, and did set him over the works of thy hands"

God brought His servant from a glorious exalted heavenly realm to the lower earthly realm where Jesus would experience every sort of maltreatment and eventual death in the hands of men, did the tasks given to Jesus require humility?

Psalms 103:20 & John 3:16,Acts 3:13, Jesus Christ is a servant.

gohf:
those who worship things and created things as God's are pagan.

Would I also be a pagan for serving my country, and bowing to my parents. Steep don't being steep in stupidity. You constantly reject the truth and promote a lie to destroy the souls of others. Who will save you if you don't stop when mercy and grace is available and you reject it.

Janosky:
John 20:17, Jesus Christ has explained his stand and status.

The context of John 20:12-29 proven your claim faulty.

Thomas exclaimed in verse 28, because he was doubtful of Jesus resurrection.
John 20:28 ends with exclamation mark.
"Oh my God"/my God !/ my goodness"! are exclamation point.
Paul is a confirmed staunch Judaist before conversion.

After his conversion,he spoke @ Acts 9:20, the first sermon of Paul the apostle.

He wrote 1 Corinthians 11:3.
The same people who doctored 1 Timothy 3:16 tampered with Titus 2:13.
Paul was never a Trinitarian.

Janosky:

The Biblehub commentary on John 10:33 knocked out your claim.
Screenshot evidence.
John 10:33 correct rendition:
"(Jesus) Making himself a god".

Check Emphatic Diaglott Bible.


The context of John 10:34-36 proven that Biblehub commentary is very correct..

gohf:
When you hear someone say, Jesus is God because you cannot separate a person from their word, it is when a lie is meant to sound logically or when logic is used in confusing you into accepting a lie. The truth is, to represent a person doesn't mean you become that person.

The question you should ask from Matthew 8 and Luke 7 is, did Jesus go to the house of the centurion to heal his servant? The answer is No

Jesus spoke a word, he sent a word. You may say only God can sent a word, at times it's like we forget the bible starts with genesis and has stories of Moses, Joshua, Samuel, Isaiah, Elijah, Elisha, Ezekiel the prophets of God that God spoke through.

So when you read some miracles you believe that it is God doing them, yes it is God's doing but through the hands of a man.

Jesus calls himself the son of man, Matt. 8:20, demons in fear recognize him as the son of God, Matt. 8:29

In Luke.7.16 Then fear came upon all, and they glorified God, saying, "A great prophet has risen up among us"; and, "God has visited His people."

Is Jesus being called a great prophet or God here? It is only those who see Jesus as God who would say yes, but Jesus wasn't called God here but a prophet through whok God was visiting His people.

John asked are you the Messiah, he didn't ask are you God?

Why then do you ask if Jesus is God?

gohf:
🤣😂 of course we worship and serve Jesus as ministers and servants for he is King not a god nor an idol like the mammon many worship and tithe to.


Pelach is used mainly for service and servants

While shachah is used mainly for worship, is like to give yourself to another, to submit yourself completely. That's why when such occurs in revelation the reply is, worship only God.

I have to go and check if they bowed to the lamb of God as they bowed to God. What I do know is, their worship and words were different for the two.

Tobi2025:
During the time of the law,there was a lot of blessings and curses, however,as we look further,we see the curses that is now being at work for disobedience!!!!!!
CURSES ON MOBILITY:Deuteronomy 28:16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field.
Deuteronomy 28:19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
This curse was on the person who disobeys and it would follow them everywhere they go or from where they come regardless of tribe,race, tongue,town,village,city,nation or continent.
It was so horrible.
If you notice an irregular occurrence negatively repeating around you then check yourself to see if you are Under a CURSE because of disobedience!
Check also if you have been cursed by enemies,those that hates you or Satan or fallen angels or demons.
A curse is a curse.
Some cursed individuals step into a place of trust,peace,loyalty,harmony,love and diligence and the negative of these good things happen to them in a short time from place to place.
Some Christians too have unbroken or unknown curses following them all around.
Ignorance is the worst covering on curses!
2)CURSES ON BASIC AMENITIES:one of the curses on basic amenities extended to food security.In such manner we discover that such cursed person would hardly have or find food to eat despite all their labours on food production.
Food,clothing and shelter,all require land to be used ,but when the land is hijacked and taken over by wicked ones,these are what normally occurs.
Deuteronomy 28:17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store.
28:20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.
When the people of God embrace another god and have idols worshipped in place of God,such things happens.
28:33 The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed alway:
We see miscreants,mixed multitudes,enemies and foreign terrorists laying waste to our labours.
28:38 Thou shalt carry much seed out into the field, and shalt gather but little in; for the locust shall consume it.
28:39 Thou shalt plant vineyards, and dress them, but shalt neither drink of the wine, nor gather the grapes; for the worms shall eat them.
Isolation,disownment and forced migration becomes the only hope of survival!
28:40 Thou shalt have olive trees throughout all thy coasts, but thou shalt not anoint thyself with the oil; for thine olive shall cast his fruit. 28:42 All thy trees and fruit of thy land shall the locust consume.
Dearth of natural resources and things become another thing.
28:50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:
Today,we see banditry,robbers , thieves, terrorists,animal rustlers and destroyers wasting farmlands and their produces.
Foreign herdsmen and fighters laying siege to numerous farmlands of farm owners,killing and destroying them.
We wonder if it's planned or if a curse of Disobedience is at work.
A Christian needs to check.

28:51 And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.
It's so painful that in Nigeria,we disobedient Christians are reaping what we have sowed.
Nigerian ministers who also have compromised with the enemies and their congregations may not appear touched ,but the others who have nothing in the matter now suffer the consequences!
3)CURSES ON SECURITY: It was divine protection that God gave the children of Israel,however,when they now turned against God and disobeyed him,their borders became porous,leading to loss of lives and property.
This also applies today ,to those Christians who so much trust in carnal security.
They fail to trust in God as Almighty and believe it's a man that can save them or deliver them in various forms be it spiritual,economic or political.

When such happens,God will hand such people over his children to enemies.
Deuteronomy 28:25 The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.
Today,national security apparatuses are facing Soo many challenges because Christians who have the keys to bind and loose against spiritual forces have drawn back from God.
So demonic hierarchy and forces have taken over wicked people to perpetuate all forms of evil eg Terrorism, kidnappings,banditry,serial killings,assassinations,armed robbery,homicides,theft,ritual killings and judicial mis killings all over the nation and in Christian territories.
28:26 And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away.
Dead bodies of slain citizens have always been found from one of the above listed
28:36 The LORD shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.
28:37 And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the LORD shall lead thee.
Nigerian Christians are a laughing stock
All over the world,most especially the Big ministers who are on television.
28:48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in unclothedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.
Today,the yoke of iron is inflation and a very poor minimum wage that is like a stipend on the necks of Christians.
One cannot afford to be secure all wise as things have become so beyond an ordinary mans purchasing power!
It's our disobedience we are all reaping for trusting in man than in God!
28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
Anytime rulers from a particular area in Nigeria are given power which is not given to them by God by God's people,depression, victimization,servitude,nepotism become more rampant leading to hardship.
28:50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:
A lot of wrong rulers who ruled Nigeria were not from Nigeria and this lead to economic drain on Nigeria.
These leaders have carried away national Treasury to overseas and Nigeria has been bleeding .
28:51 And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.
Bad economic policies become the order of the day whenever these are in place.
28:52 And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
Until security of lives and properties become so insecure then we now realize we have sinned against God!!!
4)CURSES ON HEALTH:when the people of God who enjoyed divine health and mental prosperity of body soul and spirit disobey God,a door is opened for pandemics and endemics up till little sicknesses come upon them.
Such may result into physical death and spiritual deaths.
Deuteronomy 28:21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.
28:22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.
It is pertinent to note that in the New testament when Jesus Christ healed a certain man ,he told him to go and sin no more lest a worse thing comes unto him!!!!
28:28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart:
28:35 The LORD shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head.
28:59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance. 28:60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.
28:61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
28:62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God.
Such decimates children of God and their destiny becomes cut off.
It will be foolish to think that the dispensation of Grace covers disobedience to a point of daftness.
It's all a lie and God must not be taken for granted.
If one keeps themselves from sin,the wicked one will not touch them in anyway.
However,chastening by the rod is a form of God's rebuke against his erring children who disobeys him outrightly and with evil intentions of rebellion.
Afflictions of the righteous will multiply in these latter days not only because of sin individually but because of sins of christian nations .
Such curses may not totally be at work in this time but it does occur to those whose Generations have long being living in sins of disobedience to God .
It always occurs in these things always and in like manner.
5)CURSES ON HUMAN AND ANIMAL REPRODUCTION: GOD never created you to be barren or to have miscarriage or to have low fertility or reproductive organ dysfunction.
These are the work of demons that come through curses of disobedience.
Paternity fraud and surrogacy are also some ways mankind are trying to bring themselves out of the curses!
Such is not working and won't work.
A curse is a divine statement and no form of human solution can break it unless the words of a divine power or being is involved
Deuteronomy 28:18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
CANNIBALISM is a curse and a demonic practice among cultures because of a curse in place.
28:53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee: 28:54 So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave:
28:55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.
28:56 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,

28:57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

Having seen these curses ,it is pertinent not to joke with seven major arms of demonic infiltration by sin into the lives of mankind.
1) Ancestral
2) Parental
3) Dynasty
4) Tribal
5) township
6)State
6)National curses which are specific among any culture,customs or traditions on earth.
One must trace the roots and uproot them by Deliverance.
Jesus Christ said "Luke 3:9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Every human being is like a tree but the root is the source of their existence where they came from.
The branches are like families and the fruits are like their offspring(children) of a generation.
Curses are like what corrupts or makes one evil.
Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Jesus Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law but it doesn't mean we should not dig personally our lives and undergo deliverance from the curses so that we can be free to serve God in Holiness and righteousness all the days of our lives.
Failure to do so will make us to live a Christian life in and out of Disobedience

DrAda:
Oh well, I called it

JuanDeDios:
They won't. If they want to, the money is just not there. This is a sad day.

tctrills:
Now let me explain using your logic.
5+5 is always 10. Unless you are given more information.
For example, 5+5 in base 2, it is not equal to 10.

So when the phrase All things is used, by the author, we assume the author, (in this case the bible) is truthful and we don't make exceptions.
But in another case the same author uses the phase but gives you an exception, it will be foolish to compare it with the case where no exceptions were given.
Have I cleared your doubts?

tctrills:
You are not making sense but I have time and Patience.
All things clearly means without exception.
Now I for the example you gave, the same writer, (The bible) made an exception. The bible tells you that Jesus is begotten of the Father. If the bible did not make that exception, then one is right to assume that Jesus created the Father.
On the other hand, we shall inherit all things. No exceptions were made by the bible so why are you creating exceptions. If there was an exception, the Lord would have revealed it in the bible and it will not be up to you to add it.
Do you understand now?

tctrills:
So I have already resolved your concerns in my last post but I feel it's a bit unfair to die on one verse when we have the entire bible to learn from. Let's explore other verses to learn more.
Infact, let's start from the very beginning. This is going to be a bit long but I promise, you will get it at last.

Let me present it point by point

1. Man Was Created in God’s Image
Genesis 1:26-27 Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness’... So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
- This establishes that humans were created with a divine resemblance and a potential to reflect God’s nature.

2. The Fall and the Loss of Divine Likeness Genesis 3:5n(Satan speaking) For God knows that when you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.
The Fall led to separation from God, but the original purpose of man was still to bear God’s likeness.

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
to affirm that those who receive God’s word are called “gods. Hence we learn that receiving Christ makes us gods/Sons of God

Matthew 5:48 “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
- Jesus commands believers to strive for divine perfection. Like God, we can be someday perfect.

4. Participation in Divine Nature
-2 Peter 1:4"Through these He has given us His very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires."*
- This verse explicitly states that believers will partake in God’s divine nature.
The nature of God simply means the characteristics of God. Think about this, you look like God, act like God and have the characteristics of God, what are you? This is basic logic.

5. Becoming One with God
- John 17:21-23 (Jesus praying to the Father) That they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us... I in them, and You in Me, that they may be made perfect in one.”*
- Jesus prays for believers to be united with God in the same way He is with the Father.
The very same things that unite Christ to his Father will unite us to him and his Father.

6. Being Transformed into God’s Likeness
- 1 John 3:2Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
- This confirms that believers will become like God in the future.

2 Corinthians 3:18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory. Like God, our glory will increase from everlasting to everlasting.
This shows an ongoing transformation into divine glory.

7. Final Glorification – Becoming Like Christ Romans 8:29-30 "For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son… And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.
- The final stage of salvation is glorification, making believers like Christ.

- Philippians 3:21 “[Jesus] will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like His glorious body.”
- Believers will have divine, glorified bodies like Christ.
We shall have the same bodies that Christ and our Father has.
If the bible calls us Sons of God, coheirs with Christ, Gods, who are we to doubt that the faithful will become Gods?
Just read your Bible.
Dtruthspeaker and lecowas, this could help you too

tctrills:
Again, you have chosen verses that do not support your point in any way.
Let's take a look at your logic.
1 Corinthians 3:22, you claim it excludes God but does it? When it specifically says All Things All things clearly include things that are not mentioned in the verse. All things mean nothing is excluded.

If I say, I give you my car, my house, and all things I owe. Would you say that I excluded my company just because I did not expressly mention it? Is my company not covered by the clause of all things?
Sir, your logic isn't so right.
Sons of God are given all things that their Father has, What does that make them?

Again, your argument using Colossians 1:16 is a bit shallow because the bible teaches that Christ was begotten of the Father so from reading the bible, we know he did not create the Father. But if the Bible did not teach that Christ was begotten of the Father, then one can make the argument you are trying to make. The teaching that Christ was begotten of the Father is a Clause to the verse you mentioned. So, that's not a very good example from you.

tctrills:
None of the verses you states says that all things exclude God. Please provide the verse that says so and remember, we don't add or subtract from the bible.

The verse you quoted is a very lazy attempt to prove your point. That verse only mentions few things they will inherit before repeating that all things are yours. Going by your flawed logic, since the verse did not expressly say that they inherit God, that means that they will equally not inherit any other item not specifically mentioned in the verse. But then the verse goes on to say, all things are yours. That practically covers everything.

Now, to the meaning of inheritance. Yes, an inheritance is given and God wants to give his children everything he has.
Do you know why we are the sons of God? It's because we can become live him. That is his plan for us.
In the bible we are commanded to be holy as our Father in heaven is. We are again commanded to be perfect as our Father in heaven is. His simple plan is to give us all that he has.

tctrills:
So Co heirs means we get to inherit what he inherits right? What did Christ inherit from the Father?
Did he inherit everything?
Revelation 21:7
"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Shall we inherit everything the Father has?

Godson1379:
Can a Spiritual body have flesh and bones

Godson1379:
What type of body exactly?

Body with Flesh, blood, bones?

Can you be specific?

Daejumong:
If you believe in God but don’t believe in Jesus , are you destined for Hell? What is the fate of Jews, Muslims, traditional worshippers,Buddhists and other religions?

The Jews believe in the God of Abraham,Moses and David but don’t believe in Jesus! Are they all destined for hell? Elijah and Abraham made heaven as Jews and not as Christians!

Even among Christians, there are so many divisions/factions and denominations with different beliefs about God and Jesus. Some of these denominations believe they are the only righteous ones going to heaven while others are going to hell!

At the end of the day, God is the final judge. Man and religion have differing opinions but God remains the final arbiter. ‘Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man’ (Eccl 12:13)

In conclusion, when Jesus was asked about the greatest commandment in Matt 22:36-40; Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.

Let peace reign and let’s stop fighting each other’s religion. Love God and love your neighbour, that is the ultimate divine instruction.

Truthseeker10:
Oga tell us the difference between spirit body and spiritual body na.

You used the word 'human body' to describe the Jesus physical body when he was on earth.

Now what is your issue with the word 'spirit body' as used to refer to 'spiritual body'?

Tell us the difference please

Does Jesus have a spiritual body or a physical body now? Answer the question without deflecting.

Truthseeker10:
What is the difference between spirit body and spiritual body?

When did human body become physical body?

GOD'S WORD® Translation
It is planted as a physical body. It comes back to life as a spiritual body. As there is a physical body, so there is also a spiritual body.