₦airaland Forum

Truthseeker10:
Is being a Jehovah’s Witness or not the topic here? Are you planning to attack a denomination instead of facing the issue on ground?

answer the question, first

This is gnosticism a luciferian belief.

What are the contradictions? cc tctrills

Nnamdipapa:
My people, let us discuss this scenario.

Let's assume your just got married and you have the power to see the future, now, looking into the future, you discovered that your wife will get pregnant and give birth to the biggest armed robber in Nigeria who will end up killing thousands of people, will you still go ahead and have that child assuming you have the power to prevent the pregnancy of that particular child?

I need your honest answer to this question.

Why do car manufacturers make cars even when they know that people will get accidents with it and die?

Nnamdipapa:
Not abandoned but sent to a hell prepared by God for such a purpose according to your Bible. A hell prepared to threaten people into accepting Christ.

you are just grasping at straws. Hell is God's jail for sinners and a place where people who reject God finally get what they wanted, which is a place without God.
If a tenant's house rents expires do you continue to allow them stay in your house? Rather you throw them out.

God is throwing out all that reject him.

Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Also called outer darkness.

Matthew 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Darkness is absence of light and God is light.


You have zero argument and your accusation of threat s baseless.

You seem to forget that care is part of love.
Rejecting God's love means rejecting his care such a person would justly be abandoned for all of eternity.

Nnamdipapa:
This one is very interesting and I will attempt to address the points raised by you.

Starting with your first point, a just judge does not impose an infinite punishment (eternal damnation) for a finite crime (a lifetime of disbelief or sin). In human justice systems, punishments are proportionate to the crime. If a judge sentenced someone to eternal torture for stealing, we would call that judge unjust. So why is God just when He punishes people infinitely for a finite lifetime of mistakes or disbelief?

Between slapping a Judge and slapping a class room teacher which carries a higher punishment and why?

Moreover, if God is all-powerful, He does not need a "payment" to forgive—He could simply forgive out of mercy, as humans are expected to do. The idea that God "must" punish sin contradicts His supposed omnipotence.

The scripture says righteousness and justice are the habitation of God's throne.
Psalms 97:2 Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne.

God is a God of character, as a righteous and just God he will never allow sinners go unpunished.

Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

Comparing God to a rejected lover fails because in human relationships, rejection does not result in eternal torment. If a woman rejects a man, she does not get sentenced to lifelong suffering; she simply moves on. A loving God would not say, "Love me, or burn forever." That is not love—it is coercion.

when you reject light, who would you blame for getting darkness? When a woman reject a man she is not entitled in sharing marital love with that man.
1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
God is love, rejecting him means rejecting love and that only means one thing a loveless existence for all of eternity.

If a drowning man rejects a life jacket, he dies naturally. But in this analogy, God is not simply allowing natural consequences —He is actively creating the rules of salvation and punishment. If He designed the system, why make rejection of the "life jacket" (Christ) result in eternal suffering instead of just letting people cease to exist?

You seem not to understand the life jacket represent God, the sea or river represents sin, rejecting God means we drown in sin.
God's rules are just, it is just for you to have darkness when you reject light, to have misery and torment when you reject love and goodness.
The rules of salvation are according to God's righteousness and loving nature. He made the rules that without life jacket a man may drown, It is only just for you to reap what you sow.
Eternal suffering is a result of sin.

person who rejects debt forgiveness may face financial ruin, but they are not tortured forever. The difference here is that God’s punishment is not just "ruin"—it is eternal suffering. If a person does not believe in Christ, why is the only alternative infinite torment rather than a neutral consequence?

financial ruin is torture, do you know the torment people whose finances are totally ruined go through?
What do you mean by neutral punishment?
Why will a judge sentence a murderer to life in prisonment if it only took 5 mins to murder a man? Hope you see your logic

Choosing between light and darkness assumes all people have a clear and equal understanding of the truth. But people are born into different religions, cultures, and beliefs. Why would a just God punish people who never had a real chance to know Him? If He truly desires everyone to be saved, why make the system so ambiguous and dependent on specific religious knowledge?
Saying hell is simply "separation from God" does not remove the problem—it reinforces it. If God is the source of all goodness, [/b]then punishing people by removing His presence is deliberately inflicting suffering.[/b] A loving God would not say, "You are free to reject me, but if you do, I will make sure you suffer for eternity." That is not free will—it is an ultimatum.

You must be joking, why should God continue to force himself on people who rejected him? When a woman reject you do you continue to hang around her? GOD removing His presence is what causes the torment in hell.
You can not reject love and still continue to recieve love, it will be unjust. God can never be unjust.

every human have a form of knowledge of God even though imperfect but enough to draw them to him.

A truly loving and just God would not create a system where the only choices are worship me or suffer eternally. That is not free will; that is divine blackmail. If salvation is truly about love, then rejecting it should not result in infinite suffering—it should simply mean non-existence or a less severe consequence.

Why would God create an unjust system? God is love rejecting God means rejecting love itself.
You seem not to understand that love, peace wisdom, etc are all attributes of God.

You cannot reject God and still expect God to someone how force himself on you, that becomes unjust and unloving.

Truthseeker10:
Kindly show me where I said the above statement.

Kindly don't forget to answer the question you asked and the question I asked.

Are you a Jehovah's Witness? Yes or No

Nnamdipapa:
I love your analogy but you are wrong and I will explain why.
The doctor is not responsible for the sickness and the death, they are factors beyond the control of the doctor or the patient.

If the patient fails to accept treatment, they would die which will not be the fault of the doctor. I will repeat for emphasis " THE DOCTOR DID NOT CREATE SICKNESS OR DEATH".

Now, let's come to the God of the Bibe, if you refuse to accept Christ, he has threatened to throw you into a lake of fire " WHICH HE SPECIFICALLY PREPARED" for that purpose.

Steve Job, the founder of Apple, had a chance to be alive had he accepted the cancer treatments at the onset of his cancer, he refused which lead to his death. The doctor did not prepare his death and never responsible in any way regardless of the choices of Job.

I can show countless verses of the scripture where the Bible God threatened hell for the rejection of Jesus no matter how you try to explain it away, it is right there in the Bible so freewill is dead on arrival.

Though I used the medical scenario but that is just one dimension.
God never created sin. Death is the just judgment of God upon sin.
Here is another analogy, (justice)

If you commit a crime and you are brought before a judge who will condem you justly for your crime but somebody showed up to pay the fine for you but you rejected do you beginning to blame the judge or the person that offers to pay the fine?

Here is another (Love)
If a man ask a woman to marry him and she refuses him but chose an abusive man, though he would have being a loving husband to her but because he love her he would let her make her decision and respect it.

Yet here is another (rescue)
If man is drowning and somebody threw a life jacket at him but he instead rejected the life jacket thinking he could swim but end up drowning, who should we blame.

Here is another (Debt)

Supposing you are owning a huge some of money, but the person you owed decided to forgive you the debt and set you free but you said no! You don't need his help. When you fail to pay and your name is finally registered as a debtor and you financial status is ruined, who will you blame.

Here is another! (Light vs darkness)
Supposing you were offered a room well lit and furnished but you rejected it for a dark and terrible room. Who would you blame when you are suffering in that room.

Our sins demands we be punished and that punishment is death ( eternal separation from God) but God offers to pay the penalty and offers us forgiveness and reconciliation. If we reject his offer we will justly bear our punishment.

Hell is a place of separation from God. Hell is terrible because of separation from God

God eventually abandons those who don't want him for all of eternity.

Truthseeker10:
Kindly show me where I said the above.
You can answer the question that you asked above including my own question.

Are you not a Jehoavh witness? Don't you believe Jesus is the first creation by God? Meaning Jesus was created before heaven according to Jehovah's witnesses

Truthseeker10:
So when the present heaven and earth will be destroyed, where will angels and humans live before the new one is created?

According to you Jehovah created Jesus first, so when Jehovah created Jesus before the heavens where was Jesus?

Gabrielshow24:
You should have first asked him what heaven he alludes to? 🤨

After all from Jewish traditions, The universe is numbered among the heavens🤔

I am assuming he means the literal heaven not an allegorical one.

Truthseeker10:
So are you saying that the planet earth and heaven where angels live are sinners?

Nowhere have I said that, the first acts of rebellion started from heaven. According to the book of Revelation God is making everything anew and according to Isaiah the former one will not be called to remembrance.
Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Are you saying that humans would live on planet earth forever?

In the new earth yes but not this present one.

Nnamdipapa:
We always hear our fellow Christian folks talk about free will as it relates to God, does the concept of free will truly exist?

Ok, here is my scenario. an armed robber comes into your home, points a loaded gun at your head and demands you hand over all the money you have on you, at that point, do you have a free will if you eventually hand over your cash to the robber?

Now with God of the Bible, it is either you believe or you burn in eternity forever. Where is the free will?

What I can see is a similarity between the free will when confronted with the barrel of the gun. Give your money or get blasted by bullets, give me like
your life or roast in hell eternally.

Both are very similar and free will does not exist in both scenarios.

What do you think.

This is a wrong scenario. The right scenario is a very sick man at the point of death being given a choice by a doctor to be healed or he die. If accepts the treatment by the doctor he will be healed and restored and he will be grateful to the doctor.
God is not threatening us to accept him or he throw us into hell but rather our sin which has already done a lot of damage to us (just take a look at the mess of the world today), our sin is what will lead us to hell ( No sin can live with God). God is only offering us a hope of redemption from sin, if we accept him he will save us from sin and we will be eternally grateful he did.
If a doctor tells a sick man that the only way he could be treated is by operation else he will die, Is he threatening the patient or telling the plain truth?

When Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life he was telling us the plain truth. Jesus is the only cure to our sickness, if we reject him our sickness will doom us forever.

Truthseeker10:
So when God destroys the heaven where angels live and destroy the earth where humans live, who would live in the New heaven and earth?

what kind of question is this. The purpose of the erasure is to create a new heaven and earth for his angels and men, a new heaven and earth that has no record of sin and Its effects.

Truthseeker10:
If the earth that is to be destroyed is this planet earth that we are living on, who are those staying in the heaven that would be destroyed?

You are not making sense, It is not those staying in the heavens but the heavens itself.

Truthseeker10:
Is the heaven the one that the angels live in?

yes It includes the heavens where angels live. You guys believe Jesus is God's first creation right? So according to your belief God created Jesus before the heavens?

Truthseeker10:
So what is the old heaven and earth, and what will he do to them?

The present one, One created in Genesis 1:1. He is going to destroy them, they will vanish out of existence.

Truthseeker10:
Oga you need sleep.

I have corrected it. It was a my keyboard glitch

Truthseeker10:
So which one?

God will create a new heaven and a new earth.

Truthseeker10:
.show me where I denied that.

never said you denied that only pointed it out, to show you that the fact that Jesus is called the servant of God does not mean he is not more than a servant.

Of course the new heaven and new earth is not this present one.

Truthseeker10:
John 17:3.

King James Bible
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

A Son can be messenger and a Son at the same time. Jesus took up the role as a servant of God in order to fulfill God's plan.

cutecommend:
It is very important I help you this morning so that you won't be living in false confidence while moving on the wrong path.

The truth is that if anyone dies now with any sin, they are going straight to hell; whether they are sinners or believers. But if you accept Jesus Christ and repent before dying or before rapture, you will make heaven. Someone's last state before they die or before rapture, determines their going to heaven. And going to heaven requires no sin in you at your last state on earth.

It is only Jesus Christ that takes one to heaven. If you are morally upright without sin and yet do not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour, you cannot make heaven. And if you are a Christian and you do not ask for pardon on any known or unknown sin before you die or before rapture, you cannot make heaven.

The purpose of God implanting sanctification and holiness in people is to make them live lives without sin.

While there is heaven for Christians who will die in the great tribulation for refusing to comply with the anti-christ: this is after rapture, I tell you this truth: SIN TAKES A MAN TO HELL.

It is a beautiful Sunday. Please pray quickly, accept Jesus today and repent from all sins. Also attend a Bible-believing church.

The question is like "Is it sickness or lack of treatment that kills sick person who didnt receive medical help."

DEROX:
He was stupid for that It pained me I do ask myself that God why wasn't I awolowo at that time, I would have been remembered for achieving what they call cleansing or purging

son of mutar you want to commit genocide like your pedophile prophet? Boko haram wannabe. You Islamic terrorist are a big problem in nigeria right from day one, your hate for people you perceive to be Christians are out of this world.

MaxInDHouse:
Thanks!

That's what the Christendom churches concluded regarding the angel of the LORD.

So do you agree with them that God is an angel or you have a better interpretation for the angel of the LORD?

God is not an angel but he can appear as an angel.

MaxInDHouse:
https://versebyverseministry.org/bible-answers/how-do-we-know-the-angel-of-the-lord-is-jesus

This link actually says that the Angel of the Lord is not an angel but God himself.

delkuf:
I had this argument recently with a jw and he showed me some bible verses that angel Michael is Jesus Christ. I must confess this guy almost won me and over with his argument. So I want to ask, can anyone bring out bible verses to refute this claim.



I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ can never be angel Michael. I just want bible verses to refute this because the jw is coming on Saturday to continue this argument

Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.


1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.


These verses already refute any claim that Jesus is an angel.

TheDevilsBride:
More often than not, it's the people least acquainted with the freedom and/or pleasure of creating their own meaning and purpose, that are obsessed with the concept of "meaninglessness". If you're incapable of ethical behavior, without being nudged and coerced by divine threats, then you probably need to sit down, and re-examine your own moral compass, lmao.

what do you even mean by being moral? Because if we are just a bunch of atoms being moral means absolutely nothing. What freedom? In your world view free will does not exist. Pleasure is nothing more than a chemical release which can be synthesis in the lab. Why are you obsessed? I am only describing your world view. Morality does exist in the athsietc world view, it's all Bunch of atoms competing for meaningless existence.

gohf:
God blesses you who are hated and excluded and mocked and cursed because you are identified with me, the Son of Man. "When that happens, rejoice! Yes, leap for joy! For a great reward awaits you in heaven. And remember, the ancient prophets were also treated that way by your ancestors. 😊

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The devil has blinded you.

gohf:
Ps.8.5-6 Yet You have made him but a little lower than God, and You have crowned him with glory and honor. You made him ruler over the works of your hands; you put everything under his feet:

The word came from you so the word is you, according to your words, you are delulu 🤣

everybody is laughing at you, making mockery of yourself.
You are just pulling random scripture you know nothing of, thinking you are making any point.

gohf:
because Jesus is the manifestation of God's word. How do you use a word, you speak the word and that is described in Genesis 1. God said and the prophets wrote God sent forth His word

Who owns the word, God
From whom the word comes God.

This words you are reading did they come from themselves? No, I wrote them, I created them

You created, and you can tell us, what does lulu even mean?

Or are you lulu, is lulu you, your name or who you are?

You are only show casing your ignorance.

How can "the word" be created when all created things came through him?
Delulu means delusional, you are delusional.