₦airaland Forum

@aoy emeka: i guess someone floored aloy emeka to being dumbfounded.

the truth is that the only ray of hope for man is submission to the Will of One God, while one is alive, conscious to do so.

aloy emeka, you have heard the muslims argue this point, time and again.

you will have no defense in the presence of your Creator against this knowledge. you opened the can of worms, you just have to swallow them.


there is no God or gods, Allah is the Only God that exist. He is truly The Lord/King of the Day of Judgment.

[Quote]« #316 on: Yesterday at 10:58:11 PM »
Quote from: Sweetnecta on Yesterday at 09:45:39 PM
Tell us what you mean by providing example, if you know anything about the science of the Quran and or the Hadith.
Maybe you have adopted the attitude of "oh my" guy, who has no clue but argues ferociously.

^^I guess you are still in the throes of cognitive dissonance hence you cannot refer to aletheia by name. Have you been so traumatized by the truth that you are unable to say "aletheia"? Grin[/Quote]My interest of recognizing your existence is zero% at best. A man who uses greek word to identify himself in the company of africans is not worth of even a glance.



[Quote]You asked for an example of this:
Quote
It is clear from the Quran and Hadiths that ALLAH CHANGED HIS RULINGS A LOT.

When will you stop practicing deceit on behalf of your god? For even your god in his book declares:

S2:106. None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that God Hath power over all things?[/Quote]Truly, you have no brain in your head. A drunk accepted Islam. How does he become a person who will finally lay off the bottle, except that he gradually eases off it, because he will go into a withdrawal if he quit cold turkey. So a full bottle of John Bean a day is gradually reduced to 1 shot a day, until a year or 2 he stops altogether. Have you heard of the 12 steps before? Its a social workers and community outreach personnel way of weaning a person off bad and dangerous habit, like drug and or alcohol abuse. That an example of abrogating a verse and bringing a verse better or equal to take its place. A man who was allowed 1 shot of Taquilla, when he stops drinking altogether will look back and say the value of the verse that made hi reduced his 1 bottle a day of Jack Daniel to 1 shot a day is equal if not greater in value to him that the verse that simply at the beginning told him only to be sober in Salah, without telling not to drink. The verse that completely forbade him alcohol 3 years later is greater or at least equal in value to any of the verses on alcohol, considering his new look on life and his good health and ability to keep his money in his pocket. You have no good morals at all, aletheia. you see why i thought you are a freak?



[Quote]Notice that the god says: "We substitute something better or similar". For the replacement to be better it means the replaced part was less good. The staggering implications of this that Sweetnecta and co shy away from is quite simple:[/Quote]Islam of Muhammad is what elevated Arabs. Islam of Muhammad (AS) is what gave women equal footing for the first time. Look in your Bible, you see that Eve was blamed for the ills of Mankind. In Quran, Hawa was not blamed, and both she and her husband, mate, Adam (AS) sort forgiveness as Allah inspired them with what He inspired the to seek His Mercy. A less good is the Torah compared to Gospel, the reason you relegated it to a footnote and or a one liner; love your God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. This is even less similar to the verses on alcohol, starting from just an advise and ending up on alcohol is totally forbidden in normal cases.



[Quote]#1. If the recitation is the actual word of God, then it is eternal and, is thus incapable of change. The abrogation problem suggests that the qur'an was created, and cannot be uncreated as Muslims believe. Muslims believe that the qur'an is eternal, uncreated and co-existent with al-ilah (failing to realize that this belief suggests that the qur'an is also a god like their god; hence Islam has three gods: al-ilah, Muhammad and the qur'an).[/Quote]While you struggle to throw the Quran in the same place (muddy gutter) that the Bible is, all abrogated verses are in the Quran and are even useful today. If a freak like you are to accept Islam, I will challenge you by telling you to leave chasing after the nurses and the hospital employees. I will let you enter islam as you are, with all your dirt. After many years of regular salah, some nurse will say to you Dr!, you are a muslim and not supposed to be all over the women like that. Then you may finally stop the things that Jesus left for the comforter to lead you to. Check the Quran out. You will see that Allah says that we should not come near sexual illegality and its consequences. The opinion of Paul, that we find in the Bible, are saying we can find it in the Quran?



[Quote]#2. If the qur'an is the word of God, it should be perfect and no verse can be superior to another. And yet. . .

verses are replaced

16:101. When We substitute one revelation for another, - and God knows best what He reveals (in stages), - they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most
of them understand not.

sometimes by others that are better

2:106. None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that God Hath
power over all things?

Now if something is perfect to start with; why then the need for a better replacement? Or even withdrawal of verses?

17:86. If it were Our Will, We could take away that which We have sent thee by inspiration: then wouldst thou find none to plead thy affair in that matter
as against Us

The truth is that the qur'an was Muhammad's manual for achieving control over the Arabs. Hence the many revisions and changes depending on the circumstances in which he found himself. Here is what an eye-witness, one of the scribes that wrote down the "revelations" thought.[/Quote]Allah says do not disobey your parents. Allah also says disobey your parents when they command you to disobey Allah. The later abrogates the former. Tell me which one is less important? This is another form of abrogation. A good parent you dont disobey, even if he is a disbeliever. A bad parent will tell you to disobey Allah. It is this bad parent that must be disobeyed.



[Quote]Quote
From Ali Dashti's "23 Years, A study of the prophetic career of Muhammad", page 98.

The last man named [in the list of people to be killed] had been one of the scribes employed at Medina to write down the 'revelations'. On a number of occasions, with Muhammad's consent, he changed the closing words of verses. For example, when Muhammad said "And God is mighty and wise", Abdullah Sarh suggested 'knowing and wise', and the prophet answered that there was no objection. Having observed a succession of changes of this type, Abdullah renounced Islam on the ground that the revelations, if from God, could not be changed at the prompting of a scribe such as himself. After his apostasy, he went to Mecca and joined the Qorayshites."[/Quote]Many of the companions saw Jibril as a man came to Muhammad (AS). An example was the event known as the Hadith of Jibril. You need to go and study and learn the art of honesty. Jibril in the 23 year of revelation recited "The Quran" twice to Muhammad (AS), who recited twice in return to Jibril (AS). In a loud recitation during a salah, Abdullah bim Mas'ud (RA) corrected Muhammad (AS), an event which now allows people to correct an Iman in salah. I mentioned these two events along with the fact that many people were scribes, to say to you that the case of Sarh, it is Allah Who used sarh's arrogance to expose him as hypocrites and got ride of him away from the rank of Muslims. The single most successful religious leader, bar none, over and above Moses and Jesus (AS to both) is the man named Muhammad (AS); a ceaser without the legions of military machine.



[Quote]Caliph Alwalid ibn Yazid, who ruled the Muslims in the year 743 A.D. said:
"Talaaba be-inoboati Hashimeon bela wahion attaho wala kitabo w" (The Islamic Caliphate, p. 59)
which means: Muhammad the Hashemite manipulated people by his claim that he was a prophet, without true inspiration or an inspired book.

Caliph Abd Al-Malik ibn Marwan, who was a Muslim leader and scholar of the Qur'an, after becoming the Caliph, folded the Qur'an and said, "this is the last time I will ever use you." (The Islamic Caliphate, p. 173)[/Quote]Neither of the two is a testimony in truth to the man called Muhammad (AS). During the lifetime of the prophet a yemeni rose up and proclaimed himself a prophet, just to challenge the Noble soul (AS). Today, there is a barbour in Africa by the name of Moumah Gaddaffi who said it is not necessary to say "Qul", in the Quran because it only refers to Muhammad (AS). I will leave you to go and worry about the "QUL", since I know it will become a headache for you now, the reason I will leave it as I have without explaining what it is.



@seyibrown (f): « #317 on: Today at 12:16:31 AM »
[Quote]Quote
I was not asking you anything about Vedaxcool, but about Jews and Prophethood. Muhammad (AS) was not sent just because the single reason you gave. He was sent because it was already ordained because in Surah Imran, Allah states the Oath of supporting The Messenger (AS) was taken fro the earlier prophets (AS Jesus included) about their support, if they were to be alive when the messenger arrives. Of course Allah knows that none was going to be available on earth when Muhammad arrived as the last messenger sealing all prophethood. This oath is to answer people like you since Jesus said a comforter shall come after him to guide to all truth, among other things.

Quote
Religion is a way. True religion comes from The God Who creates. In this case Allah and the religion is Islam. Submission is religion in one word. Submission to Allah in the way He Orders is True Religion fro Him; Islam. The others are submissions to who they submit to; their submissions are to Satan who made wrong submissions seems right to them. Allah promise to overlook their fauts and reward the submitters who do their Submission to Him Alone with Paradise. Seyibrown, you as a christian only go to heaven. And there is a saying that all dogs go to heaven.

Explanation taken. When Allah sent Mohammed, did he automatically or expressly put an end to Moses and Jesus 'followerships'? Did he also put an end to Judaism and Christianity being 'ways' too?[/QUote]Moses's prophetic office ended when Jesus arrive with his prophetic office. Jesus' prophetic office ended when Muhammad arrived with his prophetic office. Judaism was not an ordained religion from God. So is Christianity, a mere identity hauled on the followers of Christ at that time after his exit from the world. Was the title christianity or christians means sanctioned by The God Who sent jesus the servant?



[Quote]Quote
When you are done being a trinitarian pagan, the first thing that you should do is to get rid of the signature. I hope you do before the angel of death comes for you. He will come for every soul of man, under the Decree of Allah. This makes rapture a rap.

What does my signature is an expression of my thoughts and I am accountable to God almighty for it. I state that GOD DOES NOT HAVE A RELIGION because those who practice religions are subject to it AND GO DIS NOT SUBJECT TO ANY RELIGION? Does God pray 5 times a day facing Mecca, or does he go to church on Sundays to worship? You have no power over the angel of death, God does; and my times are in his hands. Thank you for the advice, I will always bear it in mind that God could call me home anytime.[/Quote]I hope you didnt read any meaning to what I said than just a sincere advise. Each one of us will be visited by Angel f death to harvest our soul. The Only One Who has power over this Angel and all thing is God Himself. Your statement that I have not power over the angel is true and I am in agreement, though your mentioning it is a reminder to all of us.



[Quote]Quote
Adam (AS), his wife Hawa, neither had a father nor a other. Their being motherless made their situations even more unique than jesus'. Adam was from dust, Hawa was from rib and Jesus was from ovary. Each has a source. The Source is the Creator and this Creator is 1 Lord God Almighty. Read your Bible and see what Jesus said about the Lord God Almighty the Irresistible Creator.

Who is the 'biological' (not adoptive) father of Jesus according to the Quran? Please back your answer with Quranic scriptures.[/Quote]No place did Allah use father for Himself in relationship to anyone. Did Adam have a Biological father? Did Mother Eve have a Biological father? Why is Jesus and Biological father so important al of a sudden and these two; Adam and Eve are not important? Who is their Biological mother? Who are those for Melchezedek? You people seem to be so gone ho over nothing. Jesus was no more than an apostle of God. Dont you see his mother like every woman? Dont you see Jesus eating like every man?



[Quote]Quote
Tell us what you mean by providing example, if you know anything about the science of the Quran and or the Hadith.
Maybe you have adopted the attitude of "oh my" guy, who has no clue but argues ferociously.

(From Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 345)
"Then I passed by Abraham and he said, ‘Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious son.’ I asked Gabriel, ‘Who is he?’ Gabriel replied, ‘He is Abraham.’" The Prophet added, "Then Gabriel ascended with me to a place where I heard the creaking of the pens." Ibn Hazm and Anas bin Malik said: The Prophet said, "Then Allah enjoined fifty prayers on my followers. When I returned with this order of Allah, I passed by Moses who asked me, ‘What has Allah enjoined on your followers?’ I replied, ‘He has enjoined fifty prayers on them.’ Moses said, ‘Go back to your Lord (and appeal for reduction) for your followers will not be able to bear it.’ (So I went back to Allah and requested for reduction) and He reduced it to half. When I passed by Moses again and informed him about it, he said, ‘Go back to your Lord as your followers will not be able to bear it.’ So I returned to Allah and requested for further reduction and half of it was reduced. I again passed by Moses and he said to me: ‘Return to your Lord, for your followers will not be able to bear it.’ So I returned to Allah and He said, ‘These are five prayers and they are all (equal to) fifty (in reward) for My Word does not change.’ I returned to Moses and he told me to go back once again. I replied, 'Now I feel shy of asking my Lord again.’ Then Gabriel took me till we reached Sidrat-il-Muntaha (Lote tree of the utmost boundary) which was shrouded in colors, indescribable. Then I was admitted into Paradise where I found small (tents or) walls (made) of pearls and its earth was of musk."

Allah changed his mind a few times on the number of prayer daily from Muslims. In another account, the prayers were reduced by 10 every time Mohammed went back to Allah, but in the account above, it was halved twice and then agreed at 5. This is only one of several 'changed rulings'. Please see the post above by Aletheia on 'abrogations'.[/Quote]Allah use Muhammad (AS) as a mercy, interacting with Musa (AS) so that the process can be a thing of ease for all. Yet many muslims dont even pray. In Surah Waqiah, Allah says alot of the early muslims will enter Paradise while a few of ending generations of muslims will enter Paradise. Allah already knows the heart of Muhammad (AS) who He inspired to be mercful, wanting the best for mankind, specifically the believers. Allah made his heart to go into supplication seeking Allah to permit even the alot from these end time generations to enter paradise. Later, in the same chapter, Allah says a large number shall enter Paradise, too. Is this changing mind to you? No wonder your Biblical God started as One in OT. later became Duality in John 1.1. Later you have Trinity. Ridiculous thinking.



[QUote]Quote
There is no Jannah in your future as a christian. Jannah belongs to Muslims in generations under their individual prophets, beginning from Adam (AS) to Muhammad (AS). Jesus (AS) era ended for sure when Muhammad began his prophethood. This is similar to Moses (AS) era ended for sure when Jesus began his prophethood. Muslims follow the process of worship of God and obedience to the rules of God given to the prophet whose era they exist.

I agree that I will not fit in Jannah; I'll stick out like a sore thumb being the only woman that will be protesting the se/xu-al immorality that abounds and preaching Jesus and casting out the spirit of se-xu/al addiction Grin. I do not like to endure the kind of bounties available there on this earth and would not want to endure it in the afterlife. I'll settle for an Holy heaven; I will not be out of place there![/Quote]Play on words. Heaven now becomes holy heaven! There are better women than you who will enter Jannah. They are feminist of the highest women lib quality. Please my sister, flattering yourself will make no impression on me. I am the first to say you are better than me, because if you accept Islam, regardless of your earlier faults, they will be turned to good deeds, making you on the positive column without any negative.

[Quote]Please tell me, WHAT IS RELIGION, according to your understanding of Islam? And what exactly(very briefly)does one need to do to fulfil the RELIGION OF ALLAH and get into JANNAT?[/Quote]Religion is a way. True religion comes from The God Who creates. In this case Allah and the religion is Islam. Submission is religion in one word. Submission to Allah in the way He Orders is True Religion fro Him; Islam. The others are submissions to who they submit to; their submissions are to Satan who made wrong submissions seems right to them. Allah promise to overlook their fauts and reward the submitters who do their Submission to Him Alone with Paradise. Seyibrown, you as a christian only go to heaven. And there is a saying that all dogs go to heaven.
There is no Jannah in your future as a christian. Jannah belongs to Muslims in generations under their individual prophets, beginning from Adam (AS) to Muhammad (AS). Jesus (AS) era ended for sure when Muhammad began his prophethood. This is similar to Moses (AS) era ended for sure when Jesus began his prophethood. Muslims follow the process of worship of God and obedience to the rules of God given to the prophet whose era they exist.

@Seyibrown: « #309 on: Yesterday at 03:44:23 PM »
[Quote]Quote
Seyi should tell us if only the jews are to have prophets or if she wishes all prophets must be Jews? I know that Adam, Enoch, Noah (AS) being prophets were not jews, because they did not have a tribe and the jewish tribe was not in existence until much much later. if you will call Jacob a jew and I'm sure you will be wrong because he is the overall father of the children of Israel, from which the tribe known as jews emerged.

My response was in reference to vedacool's assertion as quoted below. He was talking about Jews killings prophets. The prophets they killed were Jewish. Allah sent Mohammed because the JEWS KILLED THEIR PROPHETS, according to Muslims.[/Quote]I was not asking you anything about Vedaxcool, but about Jews and Prophethood. Muhammad (AS) was not sent just because the single reason you gave. He was sent because it was already ordained because in Surah Imran, Allah states the Oath of supporting The Messenger (AS) was taken fro the earlier prophets (AS Jesus included) about their support, if they were to be alive when the messenger arrives. Of course Allah knows that none was going to be available on earth when Muhammad arrived as the last messenger sealing all prophethood. This oath is to answer people like you since Jesus said a comforter shall come after him to guide to all truth, among other things.



[Quote]Quote
They fail to see that the Jews Killing Jesus also meant that Jesus was not of God. Shikena. Since the Jews usually kill prophets to confirm that they are not from God, would Aliarstears sorry alethia agree that the Jews confirmed beyound reasonable doubt that Jesus was not sent from God since he was not only tortured but Killed and made Jesus die shouting My Lord My lord why have thou forsaken me!

The part in read below is an extension to my signature, not part of the post. I will though respond to your post quoted below concerning it.

Quote
this piece takes the cake of all absurdity. seyi, when you have a child, whose baby it is? who bedded you to get pregnant? What function did God perform in either your beddings and that bedding that got you pregnant with the baby?

what function did your husband, Mr. brown perform? who is the father of the baby? or you are making it into a jest like what the woman will do to a eunuch tell him he is the father of the new born so that he can provide for something, while the father is watching the ridiculous joke? it is true that God has no religion that He observes. however He gave a specific religion for man to observe in obedience to Him, starting from Adam to the last man on earth. You will not see God changing in His Ruling. Truth is truth. False is false.[/Quote]When you are done being a trinitarian pagan, the first thing that you should do is to get rid of the signature. I hope you do before the angel of death comes for you. He will come for every soul of man, under the Decree of Allah. This makes rapture a rap.



[Quote]The people who observe the religion of truth from Him will find Mercy from Him. The people who do not observe the religion of truth from Him, instead rejecting it and rejecting the Ruling of God will find no Mercy from Him, if He Wills it.

I have explained previously on other threads to you that the HOLY GHOST'S part in Jesus conception was not of a se/xu/al nature. It was Mary feeling the presence of the holy Ghost like 'spirit-filled' christians do today and the HOLY SPIRIT breathed life into her just like Life was breathed into Adam to make him come into being. JESUS AND ADAM have the same father.[/Quote]Adam (AS), his wife Hawa, neither had a father nor a other. Their being motherless made their situations even more unique than jesus'. Adam was from dust, Hawa was from rib and Jesus was from ovary. Each has a source. The Source is the Creator and this Creator is 1 Lord God Almighty. Read your Bible and see what Jesus said about the Lord God Almighty the Irresistible Creator.



[Quote]It is clear from the Quran and Hadiths that ALLAH CHANGED HIS RULINGS A LOT.[/Quote]Tell us what you mean by providing example, if you know anything about the science of the Quran and or the Hadith.
Maybe you have adopted the attitude of "oh my" guy, who has no clue but argues ferociously.



[Quote]Please tell me, WHAT IS RELIGION, according to your understanding of Islam? And what exactly(very briefly)does one need to do to fulfil the RELIGION OF ALLAH and get into JANNAT?Religion is a way. True religion comes from The God Who creates. In this case Allah and the religion is Islam. Submission is religion in one word. Submission to Allah in the way He Orders is True Religion fro Him; Islam. The others are submissions to who they submit to; their submissions are to Satan who made wrong submissions seems right to them. Allah promise to overlook their fauts and reward the submitters who do their Submission to Him Alone with Paradise. Seyibrown, you as a christian only go to heaven. And there is a saying that all dogs go to heaven.
There is no Jannah in your future as a christian. Jannah belongs to Muslims in generations under their individual prophets, beginning from Adam (AS) to Muhammad (AS). Jesus (AS) era ended for sure when Muhammad began his prophethood. This is similar to Moses (AS) era ended for sure when Jesus began his prophethood. Muslims follow the process of worship of God and obedience to the rules of God given to the prophet whose era they exist.[/quote]

@enigma and image123; my argument would not go there. even though you opened a can of worms for yourself, which you know you cant swallow.

i have simple everyday argument in the psalm 91, since it indicates a protection of who ever it is talking about; no beating, no hurting, no 'nothing', unless you people are going to say that the it is not referring to Jesus and or that the Biblical God and His Angels cant take care of jesus as a son or prophet, and jesus being a trinity can take care of himself?

try me guys. lets discuss it, if you can handle the onslaught.

what qualifies jesus to be what christians think he is, but lies, mistranslations, misinterpretations, etc in the corrupted Bible.
www.answering-christianity.com has done a good job to point out these lies, etc.

under trinity and jesus, you will find subtexts to include jesus bowed his face to The God. there are many subject matters that disprove the conclusion of the ignorants.


is there paradise in the future of the christians, or do they have heaven for their destination?



Jesus had no Divine Will according to the New Testament. How could he be our Creator?
Ten detailed sub sections in this article:
1- Jesus said he had no Divine Will.
2- Jesus' repetitive Prayers contradicted his very own teachings.
3- Jesus begged GOD Almighty for Mercy.
4- Jesus prostrated to GOD Almighty only once during his most desperate times! This is hypocrisy by the way.
5- GOD Almighty Created pain and death, and yet, Jesus feared them.
6- The GOD of the O.T. Punishes to death those who cursed HIS HOLY NAME. How could Jesus escape to Egypt from King Herod and still be this Mighty and Arrogant GOD?
7- In original Hebrew, "son of GOD" literally means "SERVANT OF GOD". See proofs.
8- What about the authority in Heaven and Earth that was given to Jesus?
9- None of Jesus' Miracles were unique in the Bible.
10- Conclusion.

[Quote]« #9 on: January 29, 2008, 04:01 PM »
Quote from: olabowale on January 29, 2008, 02:40 PM
You took the word right out of my mouth. All of you are naively funny. Was Jesus just standing idly doing nothing seeing his earthly Parents, Adanm and Even being suckered in to sin by ordinary Satan?

Are you not being so naive yourself, olabowale? Grin

You refer to Satan as "ordinary", but Muhammad must have been such a tool in his hands to have been so scared every time he sought "refuge" from shaitan. If Satan was "ordinary", why would Muhammad have to wait for Jesus Christ to come back and fight the antichrist for him? You're simply being mischievous beyond belief! Grin[/Quote]But Muhammad (AS) was a Human prophet. He didnt claim to be God. He didnt claim to be powerful. He didnt claim any autonomy or independence from God. He depended on God. Thats different from Jesus who was all in all and able to do all things, having all the powers on earth and heavens, all according to the christians and their Bible. You should not be comparing your god or one of your Gods with my human Prophet.

By some chance did you read of the hadith that Satan was humiliated, time and time, again and could have been tied to the post in Madina except that since Solomon prayed about his uniqueness to be maintained on the jinn, and satan is a jinn, the Messenger (AS) didnt make the arrest of satan physical. Jesus return was not the making of Muhammad (AS) and he will not fight because Muhammad couldnt, since I indicated the Madina story above, all of the affairs are as God Almighty Wills.




[Quote]@topic,
Perhaps there's something that not many people have considered here. If "forgiveness" was all that was required, then there would be nothing unique in Christianity. WHY? Because as far as I'm aware, every religion on the face on the earth ALSO preach "forgiveness". In which case, Islam would have lost its argument before the first adhan was called out by the muezzin from a minaret! Undecided

Beyond asking for forgivess, God desires to bless people with something entirely far above a religious attainment by man - He seeks to give man the gift of eternal life in Jesus Christ! Certainly, we need forgiveness from God - but that's not where it stops: beyond the forgiveness, one needs to deal with the question of sin as it affects the entire human race! Until that question is settled, the prospect of eternal life will continue to be a far-fetched exercise to seekers of merely forgiveness![/Quote]And forgiveness is all that is required, hence nothing unique about christianity. Just imagine what Satan did to not have favor with God. Are we saying that he sort forgiveness at all? Are we saying that Adam (AS) and his mate Hawa didnt? Are we therefore saying that God didnt forgive Adam and his mate or that they were forgiven without seeking it?

The difference between a good person and a bad perdon is their God consciousness. A good person will sin or make error and seek forgiveness from God and try not to repeat the error. A bad person will not seek forgiveness, but instead be arrogant and pile up more sinful acts, becoming a second nature in him.

Who was the first people to make mistake but the first people to seek forgiveness and were granted it but Adam and his mate Hawa.

Folks in christendom, if your God does not forgive, Allah does. Personal responsibility to your Lord is far better than shoving your responsibility on a person who is powerless by his own admission. If you christinas did not know that Adam and Eve sort forgiveness and were granted, and their infractions were wiped off, who was the first to seek forgiveness and who do you get the tradition from? People have been seeking forgiveness and have been receiving forgiveness long before your human God was an egg in his mother's ovary.

@Image123: why dont you tell me who is being talked about in Psalm 91.

There is a reason I mentioned Psalm 91, because I wanna use it to nail you when I bring its sister out of New Testament.


You should try to discuss Psalm 91 sometimes.


And I didnt mention Muhammad (AS). I didnt mention Jesus son of Mary (AS), either.

But I'm sure you will say that it deals with Jesus. And you will show me your proof in NT. Then rere go ruun then. I will nail you to the cross as those who are nailed.

@ShiaIslam: « #71 on: Yesterday at 11:41:00 PM »
[Quote]@sweetnecta:
you said you will present a verse.i am waiting for that verse.[/Quote]I gave 2 verses and a hadith. If those verses saying that Allah forgives all infractions even for all muslims, then I think you need to specify that they excluded the sahaba (RA) of the Messenger (AS). The verse was a cause for which Allah's messenger said that Hatib (RA) was not to be executed and the hadith stated it that those who fought Badr were special.


[Quote]i seek refuge in Allah from arrogance and insults.but as for cursing the enemy of God,that is a sunnah of Allah.[/Quote]WHile you seek refuge in Allah against arrogance and insult, who that you curse except Shaytan, Fir'awn, disbelievers, including Abu Lahab, Abu Jahl, Yahuudu, Ariel Sharon, are enemies of Allah? The companion (RA) of the Messenger (AS) in Hijr, the man (RA) that the messenger (AS) said a shuadah, the man (RA) who married 2 sisters of Fatimah (RA), daughters of the Messenger (AS), and the other companions including the Muazzin (RA) of the Messneger are these the enemies of Allah? My brother, again may Allah guide our hearts.


[Quote]thus we find in the Quran Allah cursing (sending his la'nat) upon shaitan and telling us that the Jews are cursed by Dawud and Isa (as).the enemies of Allah should be cursed.also we see in the Holy Quran that Allah and the Angels also send la'nat.[/QUote]Show me a sahaba that deserves it while you benefit from their struggle?


[Quote]sending la'nat is a form of tabarra (seeking innocence) from the enemies of Allah.that is not the same thing as being insultive,offensive or rude.[/Quote]Allah says in in the Quran; Chapter 60 verse 12 of it that the Prophet (AS) should be obeyed in what is good. In short, it means that Allah, Alone guided and preserved his heart; choosing for him good companions which one of them is Sadiq. May Allah guide our hearts.


@Abuzola !: « #72 on: Today at 01:15:04 AM »
[Quote]Salamu alaikum: i don't wish to come here but am forced to due to sweetnecta early conceding with shia man,
sweetnecta , i didn't expect you to concede on the ground that the sahabas made a mistake with the exclusion of Ali and his family, maybe you aren't aware, well thats the gimmick he played on u.[/QUote]No. I did not concede. First, Allah said to Muhammad (AS) to tell mankind that he (the Messenger) is only a human being. There is wisdom in that very statement.


[QUote]None of the four guided caliph (kulafa'u rashidun) including Aisha made a blunder, they all did things according to their understanding and they are better in giving verdict than any one of us, their judgement is the best. The prophet prophesized the innovation within islam that will occur and said islam will split into 73 sects all in hell except one, and the sahabas asked 'which one is it ?' he replied,'those who follow my  sunnah and the sunnah of my guided caliph (abubakar, umar, uthman and ali) sahih bukhari.
Shia lagos is a core shia, his ideology will be nearly impossible to congeal thats why i left him, you will keep arguing till 100 years there will be no compromise,[/Quote]I know many shia from Iran and Egypt that I know that I am not a shia, though I will not want to known as an hyphenated muslims.


[Quote]as for the crisis between Aisha and Ali, Allah knows best,  and as for imam hussein and hassan Allah knows best,  leave it there. And it will be ludicrous for any fellow muslim to show hatred to Ali and Fatimah and her offspring, it is indispensable absurdity,
The shia's have been misled due to reading in context of recorded event, what a shame, we love Ali, infact whoever dislike Ali is a hypocrite, (sahih muslim), even Aisha did not dislike him , she just wanted to put him on the right path by the use of force,  pls lets stop reading in context, a perfect example is a book cover title 'THE END OF THE WORLD' does that means the world had ended and somebody is narrating to us how the world ended ? Lah, there will be many prediction on what the book might entail, so is what we read concerning the misunderstanding between the Ali and co, there is no way everything that ensue will be written down. 'whoever Allah guides, is the guided one, and whoever he send astray, none can guide' Quran, may Allah guide us to the right path amin[/Quote]My position is the position that ended well. As for Abu Bakr, Umar Khattab, Uthman Affan (RA), Ali Abi Talib (RA) followed them. There is a great wisdom in his "following" of them. If he did because he wanted the greater good for the Ummah, why dont the shia take example from that and imitate him? You cant do things by word of mouth, If the shia truly love Ali Abi Talib (RA) they should have followed his example. (AS) predicted the case between his wife and his cousin and cautioned his cousin about the matter. Those people Allah says in Surah Waqiah that the large number of the early muslims are for paradise and it was after the messenger (AS) supplicated Allah for the much later generation that in the same surah small number was replaced with large number. I wonder if anyone of this generation thinks sure of himself/herself that he/she will enter Paradise before or instead of the Sahaba (RA) of Muhammad (AS)?

And God is not the Author or Revealer of the Bible. Even the Jews who are your bosses in salvation, according to your Bible dont even believe that the Bible is from God.

The Muslims did not say anything new here.

@Seyibrown: « #27 on: Today at 07:19:21 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Onaolamipo on Today at 06:10:19 PM
Everybody  believes that both Quran and  Bible are from God.While Bible came before quran. But in Quran it was revealed that some followers of Jesus christ (ISSAH in Quran) believed that he was son of God.
When Quran came, he let us know that God has no son  Q: 112 verse 1-5.
God also told us in Quran that He created Jesus as he created ADAM. Both had no father. He said, it was by His command ( be and it should be).
God does not tell lies.
We, muslims believe in all scriptures of God.Either Quran or Bible.

I am sorry, I do not believe the Quran is from God. Islam tells me is from Allah. Many NL Muslims do not believe that the Bible (in circulation today) is from God. Check threads.[/Quote]How does the bold negates Allah from being called by Yusuf Islam formerly Cat Stevens of the 1970s British Rock Era? You will tell a british muslim who says My God is not talking about Allah? Seyi from Yorubaland wants to deny Oyinbo muslims the usage of God the same way she may want to deny me, a yoruba muslim from using Oluwa for Allah when I am discussing with my muslim mom.

@thehomer and PastorAIO: « #10 on: December 12, 2010, 07:48 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Onaolamipo on December 10, 2010, 05:30 AM
Islam is an arabic word which means submission to the creator i.e Allah. And the word muslim is also an arabic word that means anybody who submites himself 2 God. Therefore, islam is the only way 2 paradise

But, Islam is actually the submission of man to another man who claims he's from God i.e Allah.
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Re: Jesus Was A Muslim
« #11 on: December 12, 2010, 09:14 PM »

Quote from: thehomer on December 12, 2010, 07:48 PM
But, Islam is actually the submission of man to another man who claims he's from God i.e Allah.
Grin[/Quote]While thehomer's lie was bad enough to make Pastor Onifade bust a grin, both of you are not aware that the Quran over 1400 years before answered by chapter 60 verse 12, where Allah states that Muhammad should be obeyed in "What is Good". This is also saying that you can disobey Muhammad if you want, but a believer must never disobey Muhammad (AS) in what is Good.

So I ask thehomer who is lying and the pastor who is grinning, is there a blanketed submission to Muhammad is that verse which clearly permits disobedience to him in what is not good?

they all my styley styley avoid Psalm 91.

Seyi should tell us if only the jews are to have prophets or if she wishes all prophets must be Jews? I know that Adam, Enoch, Noah (AS) being prophets were not jews, because they did not have a tribe and the jewish tribe was not in existence until much much later. if you will call Jacob a jew and I'm sure you will be wrong because he is the overall father of the children of Israel, from which the tribe known as jews emerged.

@Seyibrown; « #303 on: Today at 11:42:46 AM »
[Quote]The Jews get hold of the prophets and kill them because they DO NOT WANT TO HEAR THEIR MESSAGE. This particular Jewess poisoned Mohammed because HE KILLED HER FAMILY. SHE WAS KILLED FOR POISONING THE FOOD. The JEWISH PROPHETS DID NOT OPPRESS, KILL, despoil AND MAIM NON-JEWISH PEOPLE OR FORCE THEM TO CONVERT;[/Quote]seyi must be filled with the spirits this day. i did not bold the force them to convert for obvious reason. judaism is an exclusive club which you must be born to.


the jewish prophets; moses just killed none jews because they were not jews. that makes it better for you now? the Jewish prophet killed people just because they were disbelievers. thats makes them more grand to you? Muhammad (AS fought people because they rose up with forces in their hands to stop Islam. watch this; even you christian sometimes say it was just a phase before the first christians actually became christians since new testament must reign over old testament.


now we will talk about moses who beif we are going to talk about jews the first possible jewish prophet. Moses did his killing by direction of yahweh and jesus for about 40 years between egypt and next door canaan probably killing everything that moved including domesticated animals and even trees because the wind blew their leaves. how about joshua, all the way to the son and grandsons of David?


Now imagine if the egyptians were to serve moses food? imagine if the jebusites were to serve moses food? imagine it the amalekites, the hitittes, the people of jericho, etc were to serve moses food?




[Quote]THE PROPHETS STICK TO PROCLAIMING THE WORD OF GOD.[/Quote]which one of the word of God was jesus killed for according to your belief between the two; Oh God, Your servant jesus who You Oh God sent or Jesus is partner of God? Note seyi that I am sure you will not answer. and if you get the empty courage to answer, the one you rejected is not word of God, making the bible and or NT a corrupt book.




[Quote]Mohammed DID NOT FORGIVE HER because he still CURSED THE JEWS ON HIS DEATHBED, despite being married to 'the highly honored Jewish SAFFIYA' and bedding other Jews. Prophets are killed to stop them from proclaiming the word of God, not because they had killed, despoiled and maimed.[/Quote]how is it that you recognized our Mother safiya (RA) and then said that her husband (AS) cursed "All" jews? does that make sense to you? I'm sure that it may be possible that your husband does not agree with every person in your family.


if he is angry at that person, is he angry at you, as well. even though he will bed you later or just did few hours before? Among the children of Israil, we have believers and we dont call them jews. the majority of them are disbelievers who are called Jews. Muhammad (AS cursed disbelievers; Jews and Christians, and others, just like Allah Curses them in the Quran for disbelief. Again, while you just make blanketed accusation, Yakubu Gowon married an igbo woman in the middle of the war.


The Rothschild who are jews financed Nazi to conduct holocaust. Haman and Kaarun who were from the children of Israil were on the side of Fir'awn against Musa (AS). We did have from the egyptians, right from the palace of Pharaoh who believed Musa. And we had germans who opposed Nazism.


The Jews were wrong in the time of Musa, they were wrong in the time of Isa and they were wrong when Muhammad was alive and they are still wrong now. Just like you are following Jesus only with your tongue and not in reality since jesus time is long gone, the jews are doing the same with moses.




[Quote]Jesus knew what was coming, Mohammed did not. Jesus, BEFORE HE WAS TAKEN AT ALL, prayed that if it were possible, the cup would pass from him; Mohammed had eaten the posioned food before he prayed and tried cures (Even 'Angel JUBRIL' prayed for his healing but it did not work). Jesus did not curse the Jews or Romans on the cross; Mohammed cursed the Jews on his deathbed.[/Quote]conveniently, jesus didnt forgive a tree instead cursed it, didnt forgive the thief on the left. neither of them recognized him and he didnt introduce himself and performed miracles to show his power. sorry i forgot he said he was powerless. and as to Muhammad (AS), it is written in surah Imran that prophets came and gone, and in another Surah that all soul must taste death.


Muhammad (AS) knew that he was not going to remain on earth because from birth his father was not alive. while only 6 his mother died. his grandfather who took the reign of parentage died later, living him in the care of an uncle who died before Hijr. Muhammad (AS) in all accounts knew death will come. then when surah Nasr was revealed he knew the time was near.


His community knew; uncle Abbass (RA) cried when the surah was revealed and Abu Bakr (RA) cried when the prophet spoke about a slave choosing to go to Allah rather than continue to remain on earth. i often wonder the fact that jesus begged and Muhammad (AS) and Jibril (AS) begged God are not enough proof that God is the Only One in charge?




[Quote]IF GOD IS A MUSLIM, HE PRAYS 5 TIMES DAILY; IF GOD IS A CHRISTIAN, HE GOES TO CHURCH ON SUNDAYS! THE ONE WHO PRACTICES RELIGION IS SUBJECT TO THAT RELIGION! GOD IS NOT SUBJECT TO RELIGION! GOD DOES NOT HAVE A RELIGION! HE HAS A RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS CHILDREN![/Quote]this piece takes the cake of all absurdity. seyi, when you have a child, whose baby it is? who bedded you to get pregnant? What function did God perform in either your beddings and that bedding that got you pregnant with the baby?


what function did your husband, Mr. brown perform? who is the father of the baby? or you are making it into a jest like what the woman will do to a eunuch tell him he is the father of the new born so that he can provide for something, while the father is watching the ridiculous joke? it is true that God has no religion that He observes. however He gave a specific religion for man to observe in obedience to Him, starting from Adam to the last man on earth. You will not see God changing in His Ruling. Truth is truth. False is false.


The people who observe the religion of truth from Him will find Mercy from Him. The people who do not observe the religion of truth from Him, instead rejecting it and rejecting the Ruling of God will find no Mercy from Him, if He Wills it.

i dont eat everything. i dont blame even those who eat pork. whatever make them happy.

about your invitation, i am not interested because it is not real. but i see that you avoided Psalm 91.

^^^^ I dont know how old you are. but we dont have to be advanced in age before we know that people get killed for all sorts of crime. Spying for the enemy is one of them. In Islam actions are judged by intentions.


I say again, no one was killed for insulting Muhammad (AS). Muhammad was actually in position of power, so when he forgave it was a real forgiveness by his Lord.

That is different from the hollow forgiveness you people tout as reality of Jesus of NT. The woman on adultery did not do anything to Jesus more than what his mother to the scholars of the Jews by her getting pregnant with him; neither did anything to the would be judges.


we see though that each time Jesus of the Bible had upper hand, the parable (indirect statement about him), the killing and the rejections and the cursing is there. I know you will say it is metaphorical. Dire not claim no ill act for Jesus. Its similar to dont touch my anointed and dont hurt my prophet. Sorry. Jesus was touched and was hurt according to your Bible. Does Psalm 91 speak about him or somebody else?

aletheia forgot that Northern Nigeria is not the seat of Islam. No kalifah of world wide Islam community has yet emerged from continental Africa.

To use Northern Nigeria as way yo belittle Islam is even worse if I choose Mughabe's Zimbabwe, or others or Papua New Guinea or Haiti christian nation to show how backward christianity is.

While you cry about Northern people of Nigeria, we see tremendous amount of her sons and daughters in high places, and even academically.

Lets concentrate on Ruh and Nafs.

Human beings have Ruh. Human beings have Nafs.

Human Nafs and Human Ruh is One and the same thing.

Everything created has Nafs which is Ruh.


You need to settle down and tell us who the RuhuQudus is, if you know it better than Muhammad (AS) who received the Quran that you are claiming that you know more of it than he (AS) the receiver.

Is this not a claim that shows some dishonesty from you? I dont understand you.

^^^^^^ lol. The lamb. thats funny. shishkabaab is good in the cold weather.

i dont eat lamb though. is psalm 91 about the lamb or is it about something or somebody else? read it before you respond.

^^^^ I have a short kinda hooked nose that fits my face. I am not a boxer, so no one hit it that it could maybe get disjointed or not lined up properly. Are you a rhino plastic surgeon because people like you want to change what God created?

Ibn Ishaq is a historian. And you know that historians do not have jurist temperament.

The single person that was killed in the whole of Makka was killed for other reason than insult Muhammad (AS). You lose all the time you argue, even arguing about your Bible you dont win even that.

are you boys okay, especially alitalia?

you have no proof of any of your saying. you people are like magicians. and al that magicians do are fast play of hand while distracting you.

Jesus aint no Creator. there is not miracle he performed that were not performed by others, more times (really many times than he; check your bibe between Moses and Elijah you will get it).

I want "oh my" to gamble his faith, he cant take that chance. he will rather end up in hell.


o ga o.

@ShiaIslam: Salaamualaykum wa Rahmatullah.

If you notice, I have no knowledge at all, except that i know that I see sign of Iman in my heart which makes me begin to restrict myself and conscious of my behavior.

In all the achievements of the Messenger (AS), his Lord did not make him boastful of what he had accomplished, till his death. He was ordered to keep busy with praising of Allah and His dhkir which never left his lips.

Everything is by wisdom. None of the following generation should have the right to insult the believers of the generation[s] before his. Musa (AS and Harun (AS) were sent to Fir'awn a first class tyrant with greatest advice to be gentle with him. How much more for a later generation to insult the companions of the Messenger (AS).

May Allah guide our hearts and forgive us our sins. Amin.

@shiaIslam: www.kalamullah.com/fatwa08.html - Cached

. . . . . Then Allah's Messenger said: "O Haatib! What is this?" Haatib replied: "O Allah's Messenger! Don't hasten to give your judgment about me. I was a man closely connected with the Quraysh, but I do not belong to this tribe, while the other emigrants with you have their relatives in Makkah who could protect their dependents and property. So, I wanted to recompense for my lacking any blood relation to them by doing them a favor so that they might protect my dependents. I did this neither out of disbelief, nor apostasy, nor out of preferring Kufr (disbelief) to Islam." Allah's Messenger said: "Haatib has told you the truth." `Umar said: "O Allah's Messenger! Allow me to chop off the head of this hypocrite!' Allah's Messenger said: "Haatib participated in the Battle of Badr, and who knows, perhaps Allah has already looked at the Badr warriors and said: 'Do whatever you like, for I have forgiven you.'" Thus, Allah revealed the above verses. [4]. . , ,


. . . . . Ibn al-Qayyim added that there is another point raised by the story of Haatib. No matter how great the sin, so long as it is not Shirk, the blessings of some other great deed may wipe it away. This is what happened with Haatib whose crime of espionage was forgiven because of his earlier service at Bdr, since he had earned the Love of Allah and His Pleasure by his action at Badr. Allah was so pleased with him and proud of them that even a crime like espionage would not diminish this and shielded them from the anger of Allah; so the greater merit had overcome the lesser sin. This is a part of Divine Wisdom, He (subhanahu wa ta`aala) determines what is wholesome and what is not, He decrees reward and punishment, He makes the pure heart and the stricken one. And He (subhanahu wa ta`aala) said:

* Surely good deeds wipe out evil ones.

And Allah (subhanahu wa ta`aala) also said:

* If you avoid the evil deeds that have been forbidden to you We will forgive you your transgressions.

Ibn al-Qayyim continues by saying: Perhaps we should consider the depth of faith which lead Haatib to Badr, to put himself in the charge of the Messenger of Allah out of love for Allah and for His Prophet (sallallahu `alayhi wasallam), over and above his affection for his family and his tribe, while they had remained in their homes amidst the enemy; his resolve never slackened and his faith never weakened even though it brought him face to face on the field of battle with those who still live with his own kith and kin. But when he was corrupted by the act of spying, the strength of his faith was enough to overcome it, and as his condition worsened he rose to meet it. Thus, when the Prophet (sallallahu `alayhi wasallam) saw the strength of his faith overcame his illness (spying), he said: "Who knows, perhaps Allah has already looked at the Badr warriors and said: 'Do whatever you like, for I have forgiven you.'"

This is the opposite of the case of Dhul-Khuwaysirah at-Tameemee who challenged the Messenger of Allah and those who followed his example; those from among the Khawaarij, whose strict observance of their ritual obligation was the envy even of the Companions of the Messenger (sallallahu `alayhi wasallam), but of whom the Messenger said: "If I shall meet them, I will destroy them as the people of `Aad were destroyed," and also: "Slay them for certainly there is great merit, with Allah, in killing them." [8]


web.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/, /chapter_4.htm - Cached - Similar

Consideration must be given to those people who have rich experience and who were very active in the field of dawah. If for one reason or another-they become slack and lose their enthusiasm, we must not forget their contribution and not defame or discredit them. This is the Sunnah of the Prophet (SA'AS), as evident in the story of Hatib ibn Abu Balta'ah, who sent a message to the pagans of Quraysh requesting protection for his children and relatives left behind in Makkah in return for information about the Muslims' strategy and weaponry being prepared to conquer Makkah.

When the message was intercepted and Hatib confessed, 'Umar ibn al Khattab (RA'A) was so outraged with this treachery thus he requested the Prophet (.SA'AS) to let him cut off Hatib's head. But the Prophet (.SA'AS) refused, saying: "How do you know; perhaps Allah has looked at [the deeds of] the people [who fought in the battle] of Badr and said to them: Do whatever you please for I have forgiven you [your past and future sins]." Hatibs early embrace of Islam and his courage and struggle during the battle of Badr made the Prophet (SA'AS) accept his excuse. thus reminding his companions ­and indeed all Muslims ­of the special status of those who fought in the battle of Badr ­the first battle between the Muslims and the kuffar.

@seyibrown: « #70 on: December 11, 2010, 11:34 PM »
[Quote]Quote from: Sweetnecta on December 11, 2010, 08:51 PM
^^^^^ this was some 610 + years of Jesus' who ever didnt sin to cast the first stone.


I wonder why they came to Muhammad (AS) if the ruling of Jesus as above stand?

But then we have punishment of illegal sexual acts in the Quran and in the Hadith.

I am a muslim male. You are a christian male. There are jewish males. We are all males. the truth is that we have common gender, similar to common punishment for common offense. Illegal sexual act is an offense without any doubt. Somebody is offended.

At least the father of the woman who gave freely to the neighbors. If she is married the husband is also offended.

If its a man, his wife is angry and wants his head off his neck.

I also quote from you our thread:
Quote
However you sliced it, in this case the bold has its ruling already. A bachelor caught in the act is to be whipped 100 lashes after judgment. A married man should be stoned to death after judgment. I'm sure that your tune will be different if you find "hubby" doing the do. Women will ask for his head on a platter with batting an eye. When you say that you will not follow God's Order because you are more moral, that itself is pride, sinful and deserves punishment. I personally will ignore a person in that I find doing the do. I know the consequence of announcing it. If my spouse were to be found in that condition, unlike Toba who will forgive and make up, the relationship end right on the spot.


Why wasn't Mohammed stoned to death when one of his wives caught him sleeping with the maidservant? Is sleeping with someone you are not married to not adultery in the Quran? Or was Mohammed granted special permission by Allah to commit adultery? Please give the correct account if I am incorrect in that his wife caught him with the maidservant![/Quote]
web.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/, /chapter_4.htm - Cached - Similar

We must recognize that every person who believes in Allah (SWT) and in His Messenger cannot be devoid of some inborn good. however evil his practice may be. Involvement in major transgressions does not uproot a person's iman unless the transgressor deliberately defies Allah (SWT) and scorns His commands. Here, as elsewhere, we have to heed the Sunnah of the Prophet (SA'AS) who used to treat wrongdoers as a physician would treat a patient, not as a policeman would treat a criminal. He was very kind to them and always listened to their problems.

The following will, in shaa Allah, illustrate this point: A Qurayshi adolescent once came upon the Prophet (SA'AS) and asked permission to fornicate. The Prophet's companions were so outraged by the young man's request that they rushed to punish him, but the Prophet's attitude was totally different. Calm and composed he asked the young man to come closer to him and asked: "Would you approve of it [fornication] for your mother?" The young man replied: "No" The Prophet (.SA'AS) said: "[Other] people also would not approve of it for their mothers." Then the Prophet (SA'AS) repeatedly asked the young man whether he would approve of it for his daughter, sister, or aunt? Each time the man answered "No," and each time the Prophet (.SAAS) added that "[Other] people would not approve of it for theirs." He then held the young man's hand and said: "May Allah forgive his [the young man's] sins, purify his heart, and fortify him [against such desires]."
The Prophet's sympathetic attitude clearly indicates a gesture of good-will, a conviction in that inborn goodness of man which outweighs the elements of evil which could only be transient. So he compassionately and patiently discussed the issue with him until he was able to convince him of its wrongfulness. Not only did he do that, but the Prophet (SAAS) prayed to Allah to forgive and guide him. Extremists could argue that leniency on this occasion was understandable, as the young man had not actually committed fornication.

when they said he (AS) gave orders, what orders did he give?

putting her to death in that hadith because of unspecified order is ridiculous. it is unlike the prophet who did not allow umar bin khattab to kill hatib, and who also gave strict instruction that if the woman with the letter to makka gave it up willingly she should not be hurt. he (AS was the same person who forgave the whole of makka upon his return as a messenger of Allah.


oh my, oh my Aletheia, where are you hiding today; SA or where? i;m just asking to make fun of you. not that i care where you are. oh my. oh my.


Show me an example equal to any of the above from the Bible; gods that never saw a people that they would not want to conquer. they never conquer a people they do wanna totally destroyed.

they never saw a person wrong them directly except that they pay him a hefty punishment.

talk to me, man. oh my. oh my.

i'm taunting you. perhaps you can be smoked out f your rat hole. i need to get smoke bomb to smoke tonye-t out of his rat hole he has been hiding. funny people.

@"oh my" Alitalia, sorry Aletheia, and Seyibrown: Several narrations of the same event. read this below without the eyes impaired by old age. you see letting her go and forgiving her? Oh my, Aletheia, where do you hide yourself now? in three possible consequences of her actions, 2 supports i got, you only got a single support, which i am sure is doubtful based on the quality of the prophet (AS), being very forgiving, full of mercy because his forgiveness and mercy are ordained on by Allah to show mankind.

A1 From Bukhari's Hadith 3.786:
Narrated Anas bin Malik: A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah's Apostle.


A2 From Bukhari's Hadith 4.394: Narrated Abu Huraira: When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophet as a gift (by the Jews). The Prophet ordered, "Let all the Jews who have been here, be assembled before me." The Jews were collected and the Prophet said (to them), "I am going to ask you a question. Will you tell the truth?" They said, "Yes." The Prophet asked, "Who is your father?" They replied, "So-and-so." He said, "You have told a lie; your father is so-and-so." They said, "You are right." He said, "Will you now tell me the truth, if I ask you about something?" They replied, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim; and if we should tell a lie, you can realize our lie as you have done regarding our father." On that he asked, "Who are the people of the (Hell) Fire?" They said, "We shall remain in the (Hell) Fire for a short period, and after that you will replace us." The Prophet said, "You may be cursed and humiliated in it! By Allah, we shall never replace you in it." Then he asked, "Will you now tell me the truth if I ask you a question?" They said, "Yes, O Abu Al-Qasim." He asked, "Have you poisoned this sheep?" They said, "Yes." He asked, "What made you do so?" They said, "We wanted to know if you were a liar in which case we would get rid of you, and if you are a prophet then the poison would not harm you."


A3 From Ibn Sa'd page 249:
Verily a Jewish woman presented poisoned (meat of) a she goat to the apostle of Allah. He took a piece form it, put it into his mouth, chewed it and threw it away. Then he said to the Companions: "Halt! Verily, its leg tells me that it is poisoned." Then he sent for the Jewish woman and asked her; "What induced you to do what you have done?" She replied, "I wanted to know if you are true; in that case Allah will surely inform you, and if you are a liar I shall relieve the people of you."


A4 From Ibn Sa'd page 249: [different narrator]
The apostle of Allah and his companions ate from it. It (goat) said: "I am poisoned." He [Muhammad] said to his Companions, "Hold you hands! because it has informed me that it is poisoned!" They withdrew their hands, but Bishr Ibn al-Bara expired. The apostle of Allah sent for her (Jewess) and asked her, "What induced you to do what you have done?" She replied, "I wanted to know if you are a prophet, in that case it will not harm you and if you are a king, I shall relieve the people of you. He gave orders and she was put to death. [SEE NOTE 1]


A5 From Ibn Sa'd page 250: [different narrator]
Verily a woman of the Jews of Khaibar presented poisoned (meat of) goat to the apostle of Allah. The he recognized that it was poisoned, so he sent for her and asked her, "What induced you to do what you have done?" She replied, "I thought if you are a prophet, Allah will inform you, and if you are a pretender, I shall relieve people of you. When the apostle of Allah felt sick, he got himself "cupped". [SEE NOTE 2]


A6 From Ibn Sa'd pages 251, 252: [different narrator]
, When the apostle of Allah conquered Khaibar and he had peace of mind, Zaynab Bint al-Harith the brother of Marhab, who was the spouse of Sallam Ibn Mishkam, inquired, "Which part of the goat is liked by Muhammad?" They said, "The foreleg." Then she slaughtered one from her goats and roasted it (the meat). Then she wanted a poison which could not fail. , The apostle of Allah took the foreleg, a piece of which he put into his mouth. Bishr took another bone and put it into his mouth. When the apostle of Allah ate one morsel of it Bishr ate his and other people also ate from it. Then the apostle of Allah said, "Hold back your hands! because this foreleg; , informed me that it is poisoned. Thereupon Bishr said, "By Him who has made you great! I discovered it from the morsel I took. Nothing prevented me from emitting it out, but the idea that I did not like to make your food unrelishing. When you had eaten what was in your mouth I did not like to save my life after yours, and I also thought you would not have eaten it if there was something wrong.

Bishr did not rise form his seat but his color changed to that of "taylsan" (a green cloth), The apostle of Allah sent for Zaynab and said to her, "What induced you to do what you have done?" She replied, "You have done to my people what you have done. You have killed my father, my uncle and my husband, so I said to myself, "If you are a prophet, the foreleg will inform you; and others have said, "If you are a king we will get rid of you."",

The apostle of Allah lived after this three years till in consequence of his pain he passed away. During his illness he used to say, "I did not cease to find the effect of the (poisoned) morsel, I took at Khaibar and I suffered several times (from its effect) but now I feel the hour has come of the cutting of my jugular vein."


A7 From Tabari Volume 8, page 123, 124:
When the messenger of God rested from his labor, Zaynab bt. al-Harith, the wife of Sallam b. Mishkam, served him a roast sheep. She had asked what part of the sheep the messenger of God liked best and was told that it was the foreleg. So she loaded that part with poison, and she poisoned the rest of the sheep too. Then she brought it. When she set it before the messenger of God, he took the foreleg and chewed a bit of it, but he did not swallow it. With him was Bishr b. al-Bara b. Marur, who, like the messenger of God, took some of it; Bishr, however, swallowed it, while the messenger of God spat it out saying,

"This bone informs me that it has been poisoned." He asked, "What led you to do this?" She said: "How you have afflicted my people is not hidden from you. So I said, "If he is a prophet, he will be informed; but if he is a king, I shall be rid of him"". The prophet forgave her. Bishr died of the food he had eaten.


A8 From Tabari Volume 8, page 124: [different narrator]
The messenger of God said during the illness from which he died - the mother of Bishr had come in to visit him - "Umm Bishr, at this very moment I feel my aorta being severed because of the food I ate with your son at Khaybar." [See NOTE 3]

^^^^^^ I know that seyibrown has a very hard heart from her refusal of Islam, yesterday, willing to go into Buddhism instead.

if you are patient, i would present hadith different from what "oh my, aletheia" presented, and my hadith shall support my view that the Jews was let go, just like Hatib (RA) was let go above. Makkans were let go as well. We dont have the same direct "let go" forgiveness[es] from god jesus of the bible.

read my immediate post. is coming up right about . . . . . now

Aletheia the liar.

your lies shall not profit you. if you die as a disbeliever, you have stored up some foods of hell for yourself by way of posts on NL. this being one of them.

let me support my statement with event described in Surah 60 when a muslim Sahabah Hatib was a spy for makkans against muslim madina. he was left alone and below is an excerpt of the event;


The first part consists of vv. 1-9, and the concluding verse 13 also relates to it. In this strong exception has been taken to the act of Hadrat Hatib bin Abi Balta'a in that he had tried to inform the enemy of a very important war secret of the Holy Prophet (upon whom be Allah's peace) only for the sake of safe guarding his family. This would have caused great bloodshed at the conquest of Makkah had it not been made ineffective in time.


It would have cost the Muslims many precious lives; many of the Quraish would have been killed, who were to render great services to Islam afterward; the gains which were to accrue from conquering Makkah peacefully would have been lost, and all these serious losses would have resulted only because one of the Muslims had wanted to safeguard his family from the dangers of war.


Administering a severe warning at this blunder Allah has taught the believers the lesson that no believer should, under any circumstances and for any motive, have relations of love and friendship with the disbelievers, who are actively hostile to Islam, and a believer should refrain from everything which might be helpful to them in the conflict between Islam and disbelief. However, there is no harm in dealing kindly and justly with those disbelievers, who may not be practically engaged in hostile activities against Islam and persecution of the Muslims


It so happened that, when the Quraish broke the Treaty of Hudaibiyah, the Holy Prophet (upon whom be Allah's peace) started making preparations for an invasion of Makkah, but he did not tell anyone, except a few close Companions, what was the goal of the expedition. By chance at about the same time a woman arrived from Makkah, who had been a slave-girl of the Bani 'Abdul Muttalib, and then after her freedom had adopted singing as her profession. She complained of poverty to the Holy Prophet and requested for financial help. The Holy Prophet appealed to the Bani 'Abdul Muttalib and the Bani al-Muttalib and satisfied her need. When she was about to leave for Makkah, Hadrat Hatib bin Abi Balta'a met her and quietly gave her a letter addressed to some of the Makkah chiefs and paid her ten dinars so that she kept the secret and carried the letter to the addressees secretly. When she had just left Madinah, Allah informed the Holy Prophet (Upon whom be Allah's peace) of it. So the Holy Prophet immediately sent Hadrat 'AIi, Hadrat Zubair and Hadrat Miqdad bin Aswad after her with the instruction: "Make haste: At Raudah khaki (12 miles from Madinah on the road to Makkah) you will meet a woman, who carries a letter from Hatib to the pagans of Makkah Seize that letter by any means you like. If she delivers the letter willingly, let her go; if she refuses to deliver it, kill her.". . . .


www.englishtafsir.com/Quran/60/index.html - Cached - Similar

seyibrown doesnt go out much and or doesnt listen to the truth much.

every christian group uses the poisoning of Muhammad (AS) by the Jewish woman of Khaybar as if to show he was not a prophet. You seyibrown have used the same thing, even few days or so ago, thinking the Jewel was a servant of Muhammad.

one should ask you if you believe she was punished for poisoning the meat?

if you dont know, I say she was not. so its prudent that you search for material to support an opposing position. if you cant, then again, know that she was not punished. I used material from a thread about the death of the prophet as a response to you at that time.

and as to if Jesus was a killer as reported, above, you need to just make a search of it. i said that they said he killed his play mate by pushing him off the roof. it seems as if you agreed but disagrees that he blinded a man instead.

which is worse, as a child pushing his playmate to his death or the mere blinding of a man who criticized the shoddy work of old man joseph the carpenter? yet, you didnt disagree with me he chased the old people out of the public square where they were doing business.

@Shia Islam: If I show you from Quran that Allah Loves and promise to overlook the fault of specific sahaba; Abu Bakr, Umar Khattab, Uthman Affan, Ali AbiTalib (RA to each of them), will you stop your anger?


I didnt say if you will leave Shia sect. I am just a muslim and sect I dont see myself in any, because it was a shia shekh that told me about beard and I used to fast with him, prayed many salh with him, too.

goggle the subject matters.


the first has a hadith.

jesus blinding a person is on record as well. evidence that your bible is shoddy at best.


thanks. your thanks finally yielded fruit[s].

^^^^^I made mention of 4 things, and your commitment to my proposal. You came up with a rainbow of others, including your total rejection of my offer. I easily can just as well play you and present 2 versions of the Bible and ask you which one is the original and which one is a fake.

That alone is enough to throw you into a tailspin. Which ever you chose for original will do battle with the other, which is now a fake. Then the original will do battle with itself after it. I could put you in that test.


The reason I will not bother myself with you is your lack of readiness to follow guidance. If the truth replaces your name, I feel that your heart will deny it based on your willingness to become a Buhhhdist instead of Muslim, an identity that Jesus (AS) carried.

Finally, maybe you confuse me with others, my position about Jesus is very clear, as to his not dying on the cross and his being lifted up to heaven by his Master's Power Who sent him.

If you are shy of the truth, how do you expect to help the hubby who may be involved less in the spirituality?

I do not participate in temporary marriage so how do you expect my wife to participate in it? Are permanent marriage better between a man and a woman? The christians whose sins are wiped off by the blood of the LAMB dont even do temporary marriage. How do we in Islam who dont have the luxury of being covered under the blood of said lamb think it is not a form of adultery? Its similar to the chancey dey of bygone eras with 2 shillings in those days. Thats like 30 Naira, today.