₦airaland Forum

Kobojunkie:
Wrong! Faith is the act of obedience of God's explicit commandments to you..

Hebrew 11.1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen

Who is lying

Kobojunkie:
1. That is not an opinion,but a fact that even Jesus Christ Himself made known in His teachings when He taught that the prophets had longed to see His day.

2. They knew and preached from Moses of a messiah, a New and better Covenant to come - aways off in the future. .

Believing that a New Covenant would be signed into Law in a Kingdom yet to come does not bestow on you, this in your present time and land citizenship rights in said Kingdom when if finally arrives and the Law is eventually ratified. Like everyone else, you have to go through the naturalization process, just like everyone else - John 3 vs 1 - 21

you just said it, they longed to see Christ. They had faith in him and they testified of him. What more could they do to show they believed in Christ.
They did not know from moses. It was revealed to each prophet individual

cornelboy:
You don't know what prophecies are? Those are written in future tenses

Do you know what faith is. Faith is believing in things that are not yet seen

cornelboy:
Yet Jesus' sacrifice started to be effective after his sacrificial death.

Everyone who was very forgiven in the old testament was forgiven because of Christ. Without him, no sin can be forgiven.

Remember Isaiah Isaiah 1:18, where the prophet says to Judah, “'Come now, and let us reason together,' says the Lord, 'Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Do you think it was ram blood that gave them forgiveness of sin?

Nobody555:
Guy you don't know what future tense is? Those are prophecies about Christ.
It happened hundred of years later.

That's not the point. Let me ask you, is Christ coming back to earth? Is that not future tense? Yet you have faith and believe in it. Simple.

Hebrew 11.13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Even if you die before receivin the promise, as long as you had faith in it, you are a partaker of the blessing

Kobojunkie:
The prophets of God ofcourse believed God's promise of a New Covenant, they didn't however know who Jesus Christ, the embodiment of said Covenant.

The Old Prophets, even John the Baptist, lived in submission and obedience to the Old Covenant Law of Moses till their deaths.

Man is saved from what from what though through Jesus Christ? God's curse and judgment in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 22. This salvation was not available to any man before Jesus Christ. The only form of salvation available to the righteous people of old is as stated in Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 and further explained in Ezekiel 18 vs 1 - 36 and Ezekiel 33 vs 9 - 20. Yes, God's promise to the righteous was eternal life forever in the land of Canaan.

And yes, i don't believe in the Bible.. I instead believe in God..

You claim they didn't know who Christ is. That clearly your opinion.
They knew the savior is coming. They knew he would take away our sins. They believed this. What more do you want them to know before they can be saved.
How are they different from you? Is it not the same thing you need to know and believe to be saved by Christ.

Kobojunkie:
The prophets of God ofcourse believed God's promise of a New Covenant, they didn't however know who Jesus Christ, the embodiment of said Covenant.

The Old Prophets, even John the Baptist, lived in submission and obedience to the Old Covenant Law of Moses till their deaths.

Man is saved from what from what though through Jesus Christ? God's curse and judgment in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 22. This salvation was not available to any man before Jesus Christ. The only form of salvation available to the righteous people of old is as stated in Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 and further explained in Ezekiel 18 vs 1 - 36 and Ezekiel 33 vs 9 - 20. Yes, God's promise to the righteous was eternal life forever in the land of Canaan.

And yes, i don't believe in the Bible.. I instead believe in God..

You claim they didn't know who Christ is. That clearly your opinion.
They knew the savior is coming. They knew he would take away our sins. They believed this. What more do you want them to know before they can be saved.
How are they different from you? Is it not the same thing you need to be saved.

Kobojunkie:
The prophets of God ofcourse believed God's promise of a New Covenant, they didn't however know who Jesus Christ, the embodiment of said Covenant.

The Old Prophets, even John the Baptist, lived in submission and obedience to the Old Covenant Law of Moses till their deaths.

Man is saved from what from what though through Jesus Christ? God's curse and judgment in Genesis 3 vs 16 - 22. This salvation was not available to any man before Jesus Christ. The only form of salvation available to the righteous people of old is as stated in Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20 and further explained in Ezekiel 18 vs 1 - 36 and Ezekiel 33 vs 9 - 20. Yes, God's promise to the righteous was eternal life forever in the land of Canaan.

And yes, i don't believe in the Bible.. I instead believe in God..

so stop quoting what you don't believe. You claim the only kind of salvation for the of old is in Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20.
I have qouted
Luke 13:28

In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out
Please read and stop lying to yourself

Kobojunkie:
You didn't quote the bible.... you quoted only those verses that you are able to specially interpret to fit the doctrine you have learnt from other men.

If you read the actual story or Abraham, you would see that there is no mention of him meeting or believing in Jesus Christ and God's direct promise to Abraham was that which was delivered through Moses to the people of Israel.

The entire Old Testament serves as evidence against your claim, this since there was no promise of the Kingdom of God given to those the Old Covenant. The New Agreement promised was to be delivered to them in the future and they ofcourse had to be alive to receive Him, Jesus Christ.

Abraham was saved from what though? God said of Abraham in Genesis 26 vs 4-6 that Abraham was made righteous because He obeyed God's commandments and statutes - that was Abraham's faith.

u want me to quote the entire bible for you. What is your point.
How do you understand Acts 10.43. Is Abraham not a prophet.
If men of old where saved without Christ then there was no need for his coming and suffering and carrying the sins of the world. Why go through all that pain if men could be saved without him? Are you making God a sadist?

Kobojunkie:
The doctrine you preach here is not biblical but of men who have taught to weave their way around understanding Jesus Christ for who He truly is.

I really urge you to sit down and read the Bible for yourself so you can understand how these ideas cannot be made to fit God's Word if fully taken in the context presented.

Abraham could not have served Jesus Christ and the reasons for this are clearly detailed in scripture. Even Jesus Christ never referred to Abraham as one of His own but did so in reference to those of the Old Covenant Law agreement which is the Covenant God made with Abraham while he was live .

Now will the people of Old get a chance at the Kingdom of God in the future ? Apparently they will but that is a story for another day. But you need to disconnect from the doctrines and traditions of men(and their churches) which only fill your head with lies and more lies instead of the truth of God.

Did the prophets of old believe in Christ? The bible teach that they did not the traditions of men.
No single verse teaches that the men of old wouldn't be saved.
Man is saved only through the blood of Christ.
Please don't tell me to read the Bible when you don't even have an idea what it is all about.
And you told me that you don't even believe in the bible so why pretend.

Kobojunkie:
The doctrine you preach here is not biblical but of men who have taught to weave their way around understanding Jesus Christ for who He truly is.

I really urge you to sit down and read the Bible for yourself so you can understand how these ideas cannot be made to fit God's Word if fully taken in the context presented.

Abraham could not have served Jesus Christ and the reasons for this are clearly detailed in scripture. Even Jesus Christ never referred to Abraham as one of His own but did so in reference to those of the Old Covenant Law agreement which is the Covenant God made with Abraham while he was live .

Now will the people of Old get a chance at the Kingdom of God in the future ? Apparently they will but that is a story for another day. But you need to disconnect from the doctrines and traditions of men(and their churches) which only fill your head with lies and more lies instead of the truth of God.

Your opinion. I make it a duty to quote from the Bible.
You don't even have a single bible quote and yet you claim what I say isn't biblical.
How would Abraham be saves if he isn't of Christ?

cornelboy:
Oh im not really familiar to that verse. Then definitely God can make them come into the kingdom without being born. Abraham faith was count as righteousness for him. Only Abraham Isaac Jacob and all the prophets? What bout the judges of Israel and the people of Israel?
My point is still the same Christ sacrifice was effective when he came to earth and died. The verses i provided from Hebrew proved that.
You don't have to assume that the prophets and the patriarchs were born again through Christ death that hadn't happened yet.
Being born again is being baptized by the holy spirit.
So definitely the patriarchs and prophets will be part of God's kingdom nice.
The book of revelation shows that only the 144000 will be in heaven with Christ while others will be in the grave and be resurrected when Christ comes back in the future.

The scripture you quoted proves that sin's are forgiven by Jesus sacrifice and not by animals.
So either God was fooling them of old into believing that the animals would pay for their sins or he was teaching them about the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Like I said all these where done in preparation for the great and final sacrifice.

cornelboy:
Oh im not really familiar to that verse. Then definitely God can make them come into the kingdom without being born. Abraham faith was count as righteousness for him. Only Abraham Isaac Jacob and all the prophets? What bout the judges of Israel and the people of Israel?
My point is still the same Christ sacrifice was effective when he came to earth and died. The verses i provided from Hebrew proved that.
You don't have to assume that the prophets and the patriarchs were born again through Christ death that hadn't happened yet.
Being born again is being baptized by the holy spirit.
So definitely the patriarchs and prophets will be part of God's kingdom nice.
The book of revelation shows that only the 144000 will be in heaven with Christ while others will be in the grave and be resurrected when Christ comes back in the future.

This is what Isaiah knew about Jesus Christ. How is it different from what you know.
53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?

2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

[quote author=cornelboy post=109580436]Oh im not really familiar to that verse. Then definitely God can make them come into the kingdom without being born. Abraham faith was count as righteousness for him. Only Abraham Isaac Jacob and all the prophets? What bout the judges of Israel and the people of Israel?
My point is still the same Christ sacrifice was effective when he came to earth and died. The verses i provided from Hebrew proved that.
You don't have to assume that the prophets and the patriarchs were born again through Christ death that hadn't happened yet.
Being born again is being baptized by the holy spirit.
So definitely the patriarchs and prophets will be part of God's kingdom nice.
The book of revelation shows that only the 144000 will be in heaven with Christ while others will be in the grave and be resurrected when Christ comes back in the future.

[/quote
Ah funny you.
If God can make them come to the kingdom without Christ, then why did Christ have to suffer needlessly.
No single verse in revelations says 144000 people will be in heaven with Christ. I am waiting for you to quote it.
Revelations 21. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death

I feel you are not too conversant with the book of Revelation's also

cornelboy:
Where bible talk say the prophet of old would be in the kingdom of God?
Your so naive and have shallow know of the Bible as a whole. And you'll be busy attacking the JWs instead to focus on studying on studying and knowing the truth yourself.

And I have never attacked you guys. Not once bro.

cornelboy:
Where bible talk say the prophet of old would be in the kingdom of God?
Your so naive and have shallow know of the Bible as a whole. And you'll be busy attacking the JWs instead to focus on studying on studying and knowing the truth yourself.

read and stop disgracing yourself bro

Luke 13:28

In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.

I have shown this to you over ten times now. Are you even reading anything I write? Or you Just argue for the sake

cornelboy:
Your are the one telling me sheet. Where did the bible say that?
Your only bringing unscriptural ideas here bro. You know little or nothing when if comes to the bible.

Unscriptural ideas from the scriptures

cornelboy:
Go sleep jare, na you get the assignment. Born again concept started from Jesus. The disciples were born again after being baptized by the holy spirit. I had other things to do. You just wasted my time.

How come all the prophets would be in the kingdom of God.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Luke 13:28

In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.

cornelboy:
Guy who you de preach to

Its the word of God not mine

cornelboy:
When was Christ body sacrificed and when did it take effect?

Everyone that ever believed in Christ since the creation would be saved by him. Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world.
The sacrifice of Christ is able to save those before christ and those after him. That is why the prophets of old would be in the kingdom of God like the bible said.

cornelboy:

John 5:46

For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.
Hebrews 10:28

Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

cornelboy:

Like I always say, I respect your opinion but you need to state its your opinion and it has nothing to do with the bible.
The bible teaches that Abraham and all the prophets would be in the kingdom of God and yet you claim they are not born again. What else do you want the bible to tell you?

cornelboy:
All the verses you presented are irrelevant. Go tell your doctrine to another person wey en head no get space for brain.

You are free to believe God's word or not. Assignment for you, please find just one verse that shows the prophets of old did not know about Christ.

cornelboy:
They killed animal ad per Moses law which is not perfect for removal of sin. Christ sacrifice was perfect and once for all.
Old covenant is vividly different from new.

And what was the law of Moses, it was to be fulfilled in Christ. Matthew 5:17

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

cornelboy:
They killed animal ad per Moses law which is not perfect for removal of sin. Christ sacrifice was perfect and once for all.
Old covenant is vividly different from new.

How do you mean not perfect, are you saying maybe only some of their sins were forgiven?

cornelboy:
I know what faith is.
Hebrews 10:5-18
[5]That is why, when Christ came into the world, he said to God,
“You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings.
    But you have given me a body to offer.
[6]You were not pleased with burnt offerings
    or other offerings for sin.
[7]Then I said, ‘Look, I have come to do your will, O God—
    as is written about me in the Scriptures.’”
[8]First, Christ said, “You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings or burnt offerings or other offerings for sin, nor were you pleased with them” (though they are required by the law of Moses).
[9]Then he said, “Look, I have come to do your will.” He cancels the first covenant in order to put the second into effect.
[10]For God’s will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time.
[11]Under the old covenant, the priest stands and ministers before the altar day after day, offering the same sacrifices again and again, which can never take away sins.
[12]But our High Priest offered himself to God as a single sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down in the place of honor at God’s right hand.
[13]There he waits until his enemies are humbled and made a footstool under his feet.
[14]For by that one offering he forever made perfect those who are being made holy.
[15]And the Holy Spirit also testifies that this is so. For he says,
[16]“This is the new covenant I will make
    with my people on that day, says the lord:
I will put my laws in their hearts,
    and I will write them on their minds.”
[17]Then he says,
“I will never again remember
    their sins and lawless deeds.”
[18]And when sins have been forgiven, there is no need to offer any more sacrifices.

The new covenant took effect after Jesus' sacrifice in real life.

You just proved my point, the sins of the men of old were not forgiven because of animals but because of their faith in Christ. The sacrifice represented Christ's sacrifice. Read what you sent.[5]That is why, when Christ came into the world, he said to God,
“You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings.
God was never interested in animal blood. The faithful of old did it in similitude to Christ's. No one's sin was forgiven for killing a ram. Abrahams sins are forgiven by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ just like you and I

cornelboy:
Lol your not coming anywhere.
The sacrifice Jesus made was effective after his death.

The men of old killed animal for their forgiveness of sin which was temporal.

I have shown you verse upon verse that shows these men knew Christ and testified of him. Can you show a single verse that shows they did not know him?

cornelboy:
Lol your not coming anywhere.
The sacrifice Jesus made was effective after his death.

The men of old killed animal for their forgiveness of sin which was temporal.

what are you saying? Their forgiveness was temporal? Where did you get that from? Quote the verse, please. Never you say what you don't know. Isaiah 43:25
“ I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins.

cornelboy:
Lol your not coming anywhere.
The sacrifice Jesus made was effective after his death.

The men of old killed animal for their forgiveness of sin which was temporal.

They killed animals as a shadow of Christ's sacrifice. they did this to represent the sacrifice of Christ. What greater faith do you want.

cornelboy:
Wow how does this prove your point?
It's still bout foreseeing, prophecy, future tense and all that.
Yes we gentiles are justified through faith just like Abraham walked with God by faith and it was accounted to him as righteousness.
Did Abraham know anything bout Christ?
Who did he have faith in?

Yes he knew all he needs about Christ like all the prophets of old. What do you know about Christ that you think Abraham did not know? Clearly not in sango

cornelboy:
I would like to rephrase your words.
"He like the other prophets had Faith in the coming of Christ and the sacrifice he would make".

What is faith? Faith is believing in things not seen. It is believing in things yet to come.
Hebrew 11.13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

cornelboy:
I would like to rephrase your words.
"He like the other prophets had Faith in the coming of Christ and the sacrifice he would make".

Now you are coming. Is it not the very same thing expected of us? Like them, we are saved by our faith in Christ. What is the difference? What is your point?