₦airaland Forum

haddeylium:
I respect your personal opinion even though you can support it with the scriptures

But I can, I already presented Zachariah 12.1. That clearly tells us of the creation of our spirits. Let me know if that isn't enough. I could present more.

haddeylium:
Don't you see how contradictory this is, Seems you don't understand what spirit is in this context .

Explain what you mean

haddeylium:
You that translation to explain your quote here



Rewrite the bible?
When I said you need a more deligent and extensive study, I meant it.
Festofost, the Bible text had no punctuation marks as we know them today, so the translators into English are the ones who decide where to put quotation marks, dashes, commas, and fullstops/periods based on their own discretion.

What we say about Luke 23:43 is that some translators put the comma in the wrong place, changing the meaning of what Jesus was saying.

Jesus was not saying “You will be with me today” because that day Jesus ended up in the grave, not in any Paradise as you rightly said

Jesus meant he was promising the man “today”- that very day- that one day in the future that man would be resurrected to live in Paradise.

Putting the comma in the correct place (after the word “today”) correctly conveys what Jesus meant and is therefore the more accurate translation.

Thanks for your time

So you are saying that there are many translations.. that I agree.. but then you decide to go with one translation over the other with no proof of its correctness just to justify your narrative?

NNTR:
Smh.

So, you just want to be impossible, by not answering the A, B and C questions. Right? loll.

The only place that an opportunity to learn cannot be found, is in a closed mind and one with preconceived ideas. It also cannot be found from a poster who habitually refuses to gives direct answers to questions put out. loll.

Please step out your closed in mind because there's plenty of room outside it, for you to fill out to, than ordinarily restricting yourself to the confined limits of your closed up mind. loll. Free yourself from your mind instead of holding and keeping yourself a prisoner of it, loll

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

I don't understand what you want. I have answered your questions. If you have a follow-up question lets have it. Or do you have something else in mind?

What is Ipobs end game? Are they not tired yet?

haddeylium:
I don't understand Hebrew either. That's why I asked you to make use dictionary and corcondance to aid your understanding of this polysemic word.
For example, the English word 'Iron' may have different meaning in different context. It could mean a type of metal, pressing Iron or even an element in chemistry.

When it comes to studying words found in the Bible, you also need to know the context in which the word appears and the meaning also.

I'll go over this to make sure you understand it.

WIND(John 3:

New International Version
The wind blows wherever it pleases-
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
The Spirit breathes where he will.

It takes deligent study to know that the context of Rau'ch /Pneuma is just the action of air in motion and not a personal force .

Life-force
It is the life force in all living creatures both humans and animal that energize or power them.(Genesis 7:22; Psalm 104:29; )
Ecclesiastes 3:19
for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit

So, it's the same impersonal life force(Spirit) that powers humans that also powers animals.


There are two nature. Physical being with physical body and spirit being with spirit/spiritual body.
There is no way someone can be both at a time.(Don't mistake it with other meanings of Spirit). Heavenly being and creatures are spirit being while earthy creatures are physical being.

'If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one'(1cor 15:44)




Good that you aknowledge that Jesus didn't go to paradise that day.

The thief asked to be remembered “….when you come into your kingdom”, in other words at a later date. Jesus is saying “I will tell you now..”

“I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”

The comma has been put in the wrong place, reinforcing the translators’ view that Jesus went to heaven and that the thief went with him.

Jesus spent three days in the grave as the gospel accounts state.

Are you trying to rewrite the bible by moving a comma, Luke 23.43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Please let's not rewrite the holy scripture

NNTR:
[s]A/ Out of the soul and spirit, which belongs to man, which belongs to God?
B/ Which out of the two, is you, which is God's?[/s]

A/ What are you? Are you a soul or are you a spirit?
B/ Who does the soul belong to? Does it belong to man or it belongs to God?
C/ Who does the spirit belong to? Does it belong to man or it belongs to God?

Be prepared and ready to defend whatever answers you give, loll

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

Man is both a soul and a spirit.
The Bible talks of man becoming a living soul. We also learn about the spirit of man.
All we have belongs to God the creator

NNTR:
They are not trick questions but are simple, straightforward and easy to understand question.

You probably was unable to answer the questions because you dont understand who you are, as in meaning, you dont understand what between a soul and spirit, you are.

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

just rephrase the question

BigSarah:
donating cathedrals, churches or mosques ..
Why not do something that really makes a difference definitely not religion

So people actually believe in God.

NNTR:
I believe you somewhat are conflating thing up, but never mind, its all good as nothing really is spolit.

OK Let's explore this your 'Man, Jesus Christ and God the Father are all firstly spirit beings' comment a bit more then

A/ Out of the soul and spirit, which belongs to man, which belongs to God?
B/ Which out of the two, is you, which is God's?

Be prepared and ready to defend whatever answer to advance, loll

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

I don't understand your question

haddeylium:
So, what about you? What's your view of this?

Man like Christ was first a spirit. Our spirits were with God. We are his spirit Children just like Christ but Christmas is the first born. The rest of us came after. When the bible talks of spirits in prison, it is talking about the spirits of man.
So if God is a spurit, man too is a spirit

NNTR:
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and full of power
[making it operative, energizing, and effective].
It is sharper than any two-edged sword,
penetrating as far as the division of the soul and spirit [the completeness of a person],
and of both joints and marrow [the deepest parts of our nature],
exposing and judging the very thoughts and intentions of the heart.

tctrills, if you and haddeylium had taken a stab at answering those two questions I earlier asked, that you didnt confront, the penny would have dropped for you, and causing you to see how clearly the similarities and the difference between the soul and spirit (i.e. spirit of man aka ruach aka the breath of life aka the life force) are

Hebrews 4:12 above, aside being instructive, is self-explanatory

For your information, Pneuma and Ruach, mean the same thing. The former is Greek, while the latter, is Hebrew/Aramaic

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

I actually agree with you. Man, Jesus Christ and God the Father are all firstly spirit beings

[quote author=haddeylium post=108828191]If you take your time to go through this article you posted, you will see that this almost what I'm showing you. [/quote there are similarities but the difference is clear.

NNTR:
Without trying to risk obfuscating or cause a head scratcher, yes, man is a spirit being, who essentially is a soul housed in a human being body, lawfully living on earth to express him/herself in accordance with his/her nature and is legally existing to experience life on earth too

The questions that begs to be answered are these:

A/ How did God form the spirit of man aka ruach aka the breath of life aka the life force within him
B/ Also how exactly did the man become a living soul, at what point did the man become a living soul and why at that particular point did the man become a living soul?

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

You say man is a spirit being but Jesus Christ is not spirit?

haddeylium:
Now, I see where the problem is. You're mixing them as the others answering your question.
The Bible writers use the Hebrew word 'Pneuma' or Rau'ch that was translated to 'Spirit' in English. It is a polysemic word.
It is a word with different meaning. If you're not deligent in your study, you can mistake one for another.
Let me highlight those cases

1. Wind.
In context, Wind is translated from Pneuma(Spirit in English) . Understandably, as a virtue of being invisible. (Ex 10:13;(Zec 2:6). You can consult the bible dictionary and lexicon to confirm this.

2. Breath of Spirit/ life force.
The Spirit here thus thus refers to an invisible force (the spark of life) that animates all living creatures.(Gen 2:7;Psalm 104:29). The spirit here is not a person.

3. Spirit Person.
The Pneuma(Spirit) here, when referring to heavenly creatures contrast earthly creatures with fleshy and physical bodies. God is a spirit( Joh 1:18; 1Ti 1:17)).This does not mean that God is an impersonal, bodiless force like the wind.
Thanks for your time

I want to emphasize, Please if you are not a Hebrew scholar don't try to explain ancient words of Hebrew. Even ancient scholars are not always right.

So I made some research to find the meaning of Pneuma and Rau'ch. Your definitions are a bit faulty. Below are my findings from my study, I advise you to make further study on the subject.

The Hebrew ruach means “wind,” “breath,” or “spirit.” The corresponding Greek word is pneuma. Both words are commonly used in passages referring to the Holy Spirit. The word’s first use in the Bible appears in the second verse: “The Spirit of God [Ruach Elohim] was hovering over the waters” (Genesis 1:2). In Genesis 6:17 ruach is translated “breath of life.” Genesis 8:1 uses ruach to describe the “wind” God sent over the earth to recede the Flood waters. Altogether, the word ruach is found almost 400 times in the Old Testament.

Often, when the Old Testament talks about the “Spirit of the Lord” or the “Spirit of God,” the word for “Spirit” is Ruach. Use of ruach as “spirit” when not linked with God usually is in reference to the human spirit. This can mean the actual spirit of a human (the immaterial part of humans akin to the soul) or one’s mood, emotional state, or general disposition. Ruach as “breath” or “wind” can be a reference to literal breath or wind, or it can take on a figurative meaning such as in the idiom “a mere breath.”

God’s Ruach is the source of life. The Ruach of God is the One who gives life to all creation. We could say that God’s Ruach has created every other (non-divine) ruach that exists. All living creatures owe the breath of life to the Creative Spirit of God. Moses states this truth explicitly: “God . . . gives breath [ruach] to all living things” (Numbers 27:16). Job understood this truth as well: “As long as I have life within me, the breath [ruach] of God in my nostrils” (Job 27:3). Later, Elihu tells Job, “The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life” (Job 33:4).

God used the phrase Ruach Yahweh in His promise that the Messiah would be empowered by the Holy Spirit: “The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him—the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of might, the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the LORD” (Isaiah 11:2; see also Isaiah 42:1). This prophecy was fulfilled in Jesus; at His baptism in the Jordan River, John saw “the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him” (Matthew 3:16).

This is From another Study
The meaning of the Hebrew word ruach is "breath," or "wind," or "spirit." In Scripture, the word is applied both to human beings and to God. Depending on the context, ruach can be talking about a person's emotional state of being, or their soul or spirit, and is sometimes used as an idiom, as in "a mere breath." When coupled with one of the names of God, ruach refers to the Holy Spirit. For example, Ruach Elohim is mentioned in the first few verses of Genesis to describe the Spirit of God hovering over the waters (Genesis 1:2). In the Old Testament, the translated phrase is always "Spirit of the Lord" or "Spirit of God." In the New Testament, the Greek word pneuma is applied and translated "Holy Spirit."

The Ruach of God is the Creator of all other non-divine ruach. "God. . . gives breath [ruach] to all living things" (Numbers 27:16, NIV). When God created Adam, He breathed into Adam's nostrils and "man became a living creature" (Genesis 2:7). Job mentions the same breath of life as that which keeps him alive, saying "as long as my breath is in me, and the spirit [ruach] of God is in my nostrils" (Job 27:3). His friend Elihu affirmed the same: "The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life" (Job 33:4). It was the same Spirit that came to rest on Jesus Christ in the form of a dove, empowering and anointing Him as the Messiah (Matthew 3:16). This event was prophesied by Isaiah, who said, "And the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord" (Isaiah 11:2). In both passages, the word for "Spirit" and "breath" is the Hebrew word ruach.

God's Ruach is often associated with His creative power. A very good of example of this comes from a conversation that Jesus had with a Pharisee called Nicodemus, who came to Jesus secretly in the night to ask Him questions. Jesus told Nicodemus that a person can only enter the kingdom of God if he or she has been "born of the Spirit" because "that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:4–6). Then, He compares the Holy Spirit to the wind, saying "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:. Both the word "wind" in this passage and the word "Spirit" are the same word: pneuma, the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew word ruach.

God's breath, His creative power, His Holy Ruach is responsible for all that is created: the universe, the earth, and even the spirit of man. Even more amazing, the "new man" that is created when a person trusts in Christ for salvation, is also a creation of the Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 4:24), because it is "born" of God's Ruach.

haddeylium:
Now, I see where the problem is. You're mixing them as the others answering your question.
The Bible writers use the Hebrew word 'Pneuma' or Rau'ch that was translated to 'Spirit' in English. It is a polysemic word.
It is a word with different meaning. If you're not deligent in your study, you can mistake one for another.
Let me highlight those cases

1. Wind.
In context, Wind is translated from Pneuma(Spirit in English) . Understandably, as a virtue of being invisible. (Ex 10:13;(Zec 2:6). You can consult the bible dictionary and lexicon to confirm this.

2. Breath of Spirit/ life force.
The Spirit here thus thus refers to an invisible force (the spark of life) that animates all living creatures.(Gen 2:7;Psalm 104:29). The spirit here is not a person.

3. Spirit Person.
The Pneuma(Spirit) here, when referring to heavenly creatures contrast earthly creatures with fleshy and physical bodies. God is a spirit( Joh 1:18; 1Ti 1:17)).This does not mean that God is an impersonal, bodiless force like the wind.
Thanks for your time

I quoted Zachariah 12.1, not any of these you are quoting. Also, the thing with ancient Hebrew is that most scholars do not agree hence we have different explanations. Christ told the thief on the cross 'today, you would be with me in paradise. We know the thief died. his body did not go to paradise. We know Christ was not lying.

Janosky:
Romans 8:3 & Galatians 4:4 "God sent his son born of a woman.....in the likeness of men"
Luke 24:39, the resurrected Jesus appears to the disciples in a human form (without the wounds & nail marks of his death @Matt27:26).
1 Corinthians 15:3-4,45-50. The resurrected Jesus is a spirit being in heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4,45-50 never said that the resurrected Christ is a spirit in heaven. Or are we using different bibles? I am not sure the bible speaks of Jesus shedding his body to enter heaven. Please explain further. The scripture speaks of Christ ascending to heaven in flesh.

DareyFortified:
If 6goals plus 6assist in 16games is disappointing to you, that one is your family problem. E no concern me!

LM7... To the world.. peace

6 goals for messi? It's like this your first season watching messi. Well watch some of his old matches then you would understand

haddeylium:
Humans cannot see spirits, so the disciples evidently thought they were seeing an apparition or a vision. (Compare Mark 6:49, 50.) Jesus assured them that he was no apparition; they could see his materialized body form of flesh and could touch him, feeling the bones.

Are you saying Christ is not a spirit?

haddeylium:
YES!
God is a spirit being. Which means he's immaterial and hence invisible to fleshy humans with physical bodies.


God is immaterial spirit being. , “at no time has anyone beheld God.” (1Jo 4:12) So, nobody knows what his spiritual body looks like.
But man were also created as spirits


The bible is not talking about being created in his form or shape rather about expressing his qualities that 'lower animals' do not have.
Only, his intelligent creatures have the ability to express his mental, moral and emotional qualities hence being created in his image

YES! He was created as a spirit son of God

But man was also created as a spirit son
Zechariah 12.1
1The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Hence my question, is man also a spirit?

DareyFortified:
Yes they did so well that lille won the league. Nonsense!

It seems Messi and PSG is giving obembet abi what is her name sleepless night. Cus I don't get this your obsession with Messi. You don't post Messi successes but immediately he fail to do something, you are always there to post something.

And if he start scoring the goals in multiple folds you people will say shebi is because he is playing in a farmers league.

Beside Messi doesn't need to score to show he is the best. Even if he stop playing football today he will still remain the best player ever.

No matter how you put it, Messi is disappointing. We all including you expected much more from him. Maybe age is beginning to catch up.

1 Corinthians 15:45 Jesus Christ is a spirit giving life to mankind he died for. .[/quote]Christ declared he is not a spirit in Luke 24.39
Luke 24:39
39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have

DispatcherLagos:
He died first, conquered death and other human limitations thus His ability to ascend to Heaven.

Christ declared he is not a spirit in Luke 24.39
Luke 24:39
39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have

DispatcherLagos:
He died first, conquered death and other human limitations thus His ability to ascend to Heaven.

Yes but man would do the very same thing. Man would die and conquer death and other human limitations. Is Christ a spirit?
And is man a spirit?

DispatcherLagos:
was limited until He left the world.

He left the world in flesh and bone.Remember he ascended to heaven in his physical form.

Janosky:
Genesis 6:3, JEHOVAH says man is flesh.
1 Corinthians 15:50 flesh and blood can not dwell in heaven.

But man has a spirit. How about Jesus Christ who ascended to heaven in his flesh.

Janosky:
Does God have eyes,ears & hands?
Yes !
God definitely have a spiritual body not visible to human eyes, Exodus 33:20. John5:37 & John 1:18.
Colossians 1:15, Jesus Christ is a Creature.
Every creature exists in the image of God.
Revelation 3:12 & John 20:17, our Father in heaven is the God &Father of Jesus in the spiritual realm.
1 Corinthians 15:45 Jesus Christ is a spirit giving life to mankind he died for.

What about man, is man not a spirit?

Hashabiah:
According to the bible, God is a spirit(John 4:24). And Jesus always existed before creation of the world (John1:1-5) because He was God, but not in bodily form

What about man or the spirit of man? Did our spirits not exist before the creation of the world.

DispatcherLagos:
God is a spirit without flesh therefore He is omnipotent whereas man is a spirit with flesh which is a limitation to man's capabilities

But Jesup Christ has flesh is he limited?

Is God a spirit? Does he have body parts? The bible states that we are in his image and Jesus Christ is his express image. Is Jesus Christ also a spirit?

It depends on how you see it. The creator gave man all it takes to be like him but he also gave us free will. We are not factory-produced goods. We are children of God with the potential to be like him. So we would be judged and placed according to how well we used our potentials.

2special:
haaaaaaaaaa no wahala o

lol.. the only way out of this generator madness is for government to do the needful. Setting a time limit would only be limiting the freedoms of ordinary people who are not the cause of the power failure.