₦airaland Forum

Tinfoil:
Please move this discussion to the relevant thread, NOT here

I'm done already,

jln115:
Fvck me dude!! Must I quote what you said a few days ago??

Your original argument was that a Gripen can't fly inverted/negative G

Then when I proved you wrong you changed the subject to an outside loop( negative G dive) which aircraft 100 years ago could do.

And if you know what wing loading is and you just took 5 minutes to google you'll realise the Gripen has the lowest wing loading of all 4+ gen Aircraft and also one of thee highest G loads of any Aircraft.

now go study first year....you clearly need it!!

Mr man inverted is different from (negative inverted), that's why I specified . Negative Inverted is also called (outside loop).
I'll refer you to a good online English class so you can use your time better understanding English.

Does wing loading alone contribute to the aerodynamic performance of an aircraft? NO! Go back to NASA website, and learn some stuff. Internet fanboy.

jln115:
So for someone who is a self proclaimed expert in aerodynamics you claimed:

1: Gripen can't fly inverted

2: 3rd gen Aircraft can't fly inverted

3: after I showed you that all fighters can fly inverted you changed the subjected to negative g dive(outside loop) which isn't even a manoeuvre

4: you didnt know that even Aircraft in the 1920's can do an outside loop yet you claim a fighter built 100 years later can't ??

5: You have no idea what wing loading and G load is....if you did we won't even be having this debate

6: you have brought forward no facts, were as I have provided facts straight from SAAB, SAAF and CAF

7: you claim you know more about aircraft and aerodynamics than people(SAAB) who actually build them.

Mr man, you have issues with English. There's a huge difference between flying inverted and a negative inverted dive (outside loop) That was my claim which you have been unable to prove wrong with all your videos.
I never claimed a 3rd generation aircraft can't fly inverted. My write-up was based on the Gripen.

You don't need to add lies to your CV on a faceless forum. Check my previous posts. If I don't know something I'll agree to one who has a better knowledge or stop the conversation.
Just like I claimed the rail gun was in use on DDG1000, I accepted when he asked me to check again. Learn to accept the truth.

I never claimed to know better than SAAB I am just telling you the basic principles that apply to all Aircraft including the B-2 .
Edit: Had to go back to your rubbish. A first year bachelor's degree student in aerospace engineering will tell you better what wing loading is so your point about me having no idea of what it is is bullshit. My aerodynamics kmowledge is far more than you can comprehend. I don't do internet reading, I do practical.

I'll advice you to:
1) Go back for an English class.
2) Learn to accept defeat.
3) Stop being so clueless.

Between, I didn't read your post to the end as the inverted issue sounds do useless to me. I'm not wasting my time on a useless argument with you whose kmowledge on aircraft /avionics comes from google or one forum.

jln115:
Dude please!! so now your claiming you know more than SAAB?? but yes your right, lets end the discussion here....no need for me to debate facts with a keyboard warrior who knows nothing about aerodynamics!!

If you were aerodynamic I'll have 40 patents on you. So learns how to to accept defeat and stop typing poo without facts.

Patchesagain:
I have already responded as to how the Gripen is better in comparison

It carrys a bigger payload, is faster, more maneuverable etc

With regards to radar, ours outranges you and allows simultaneous engagement of up to 4 targets

Let start with Radar.
Your Gripen uses PS-05/A multi-mode, pulse doppler radar and the JF-17 KLJ-7.

Remember the PS-5 Pulse Doppler, X band radar, uses mono pulse and the JF-17 radar can also be operated on pulse doppler mode.
KLJ
Range While Search (RWS)
Velocity Search (VS)
Single Target Track (STT)
Track While Scan (TWS)
Dual Target Track (DTT)
Situational Awareness Mode (SAM)
Air Combat Mode (ACM)(with five sub-modes)
Real Beam Map (RBM)
Doppler Beam Sharpening (DBS)
Ground Moving Target Indication/Ground Moving Target Track (GMTI/GMTT)
Air to Ground Ranging (AGR)
Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR)
Sea Single Target Track (SSTT)
Beacon (BCN)

Gripen Radar.
[b]Target track modes
LRS (Long Range Search) is used to detect and identify targets at high ranges.
TWS (Track While Scan) allows to track targets and search for other targets.
MPTT (Multiple Priority Target Tracking).
PTT (Priority Target Tracking) allows accurate targeting and tracking Air-to-Air missiles.
STT (Single Target Track).
ACM (Air Combat Mode) is used for automatic target detection in dogfight.
LRS (Long Range Search) is used for ground or sea target search at long distances.
RA (Raid Assessment) ensures bombing.
SMTI (Stationary and Moving Target Indication) is used for ground stationary or moving targets.
GSPTT (Ground and Sea Priority Target Tracking).
GM (Ground Mapping) ensures mapping of terrain under the aircraft for navigation purposes (e.g. terrain copying at night or adverse weather condition).
HRM (High Resolution Mapping) ensures terrain mapping by synthetic aperture in order to gain high resolution pictures.
RANGING high accuracy ground target ranging.[/b]

Tell me how bad the JF-17 radar is ? Are you firing 8 missiles at once? The radar still remains combat okay.

I need your opinion.

@nemesis yes.

This baby is beautiful.

Yorobastard:
Why don't you go and suck their balls then.....do you have any idea how they treat black people in their country.

Would you like to go to a country where people with your skin colour are harassed and killed without the government doing anything about it??

But here in the country Nigeria the same Indian man the kill black people will still come to this country and kill another black person and still get away with it. You get sense so? This is the reason why Ghana will always be better than Nigeria becos they arrest and deport you immediately when you commit a crime in their land. They don't bleeping care who you are....shikena

Enough of all this racist excuse. Raise your own standard.

StarPlayer:
From all the comments so far, i don discover say nigerians generally no get sense

So Na now you just know sey most Nigerians on nairaland dull?

Nigerians are literally unexposed. See how they are talking shiit about India. A country with nuclear warheads.

prettyboi1989:
wetin b dis toy na? for 2016? Quadcopter that cant even carry missile.
see beta drone jor

12inches1:
What a shame? Ordinary DJI PHANTOM 3 that I want to buy next month for 400 dollars is what our military is using as drones. Drones that hobbyists are using in the u.s. Anyway, they are still training sha. Drones are the future of security in developing nations like Nigeria. They are very inexpensive.

Proffdada:
These are child's play for only surveillance , cannot be weaponized and can only fly for 7 mins.
I hope they've not scammed us for a large sum of money

Can only fly for 7minutes? Go and sit down somewhere jor. We also operate UCAV.

VajanahDischaj:
so federal govt paid foreigners to teach our military how to play with these toys? nah wah! school is a wasted project in 9ja.

They are Nigerian trained by Sunday Idajili.

Nigeria operates armed drones (UCAV) and UAV.


You all should get exposed before spilling shiit in here.

jln115:
First hand knowledge??So you've flown both the Gripen and Euro-fighter?? All i did was quote the facts straight from the CAF and SAAF websites.....But hey you're the one who has first hand knowledge you obviously must know more than both SAAF and CAF!

Must I fly a gripen before I know how good it is technologically? A better knowledge in avionics will bring out the facts that can't be denied even by SaaB. Physics doesn't change. I am not talking about combat here. A better research and little readings on Aerodynamics will show you the principle of lift and and how things react in air. I am not a combat expert, but obviously an expert when it comes to aircraft and Electronic warfare to some instance. Let just end the discussion here.

nganduh:
According to SAAB's marketing people:

Even my school will say her UAV is better than the the Global hawk

NighttWalker:
COIN

4th pic looks like it was taken in the creek

The Uniform looks cute.

jln115:
Glad you've seen the light

No. You just proved to me internet is better than practical and first hand knowledge.

nemesis2u:
let me get this straight and plz no offence to anybody including "me"

NOBODY HERE AND IN MAJORITY OF THE BLOGS / FORUMS KNOWS ANYTHING SUBSTANTIAL ABOUT WEAPON SYSTEMS.
ITS ONLY BITS AND PIECES PICKED UP FROM OPEN SOURCE WHICH THEMSELVES ARE NOT VERIFIABLE.

MAJORITY OF PEOPLE CONNECTED WITH THE DEVELOPMENT AND OPERATION OF WEAPON SYSTEMS DON'T HAVE THE TIME AND THE AUTHORIZATION TO POST AND ARE SANE ENOUGH TO NOT ENGAGE IN NEVER ENDING MEANINGLESS DICK MEASURING CONTEST ON THE INTERNET REGARDING THE SAME.

internet is a fools paradise if u know what i mean ie propaganda , sales gimmick, fanboy posts etc r the rule of the day.
and nobody including me is immune to this.

how many weapon systems became more potent and dangerous after being declared and vetted decisively in forums / blogs or by being declared and vetted decisively by news articles / reports etc ?
somebody help me here. plz

so as i always say and which everybody ignores "don't loose sleep over it"

and by the way i and chinese8107 like each other very much
we are like yin and yang
and i going to kill him someday
if he does not kill me first
he is a simple person most of the time and speaks his mind and the truth
and he brings diversity
oops henry240 i stole ur line

The Yin and Yang got me. You once lived in china?


You all can take a chill and watch this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO3iXNtLkug

jln115:
Im not indirectly telling you the Gripen is more maneuverable than the Euro-Fighter....[s]Im [b]directly telling it is....The Gripen has higher a G load, as well as a much lower wing loading!! Thought you knew aerodynamics?? [/b][/s]

Oh and my sources are Flight Global and The Czech Air force.



.........Oh and lets just move this discussion to the other thread

No need. Discussion ends here Gripen more maneuverable

Patchesagain:

Henry, your pretty pictures come from a fvcking blog!!!
http://defence.pk/threads/jas-39-gripen-c-vs-jf-17-thunder-block-2.419969/
You should have known I would have reverse image searched!
What's next? You going to quote the other thread as a source?
Come now, this is fair and honest debate in good spirit, vigorous? Yes! Heated? Yes! These are the qualities of any good debate!
But lets keep it to a high standard. Good research, reliable sources. We may actually learn something from each other. Steel sharpens steel.
Now:
Gripen has a more powerfull engine, is faster, is more maneuverable, has a bigger payload, more hard-points, has more advanced electronics (HMD, fly-by-wire, complete sensor fusion, EWS 39 amongst the most capable EW suite in existance) is combat tested and has over 20 years of operational history. Most importantly many customers have chosen it over the SU30 and chosen it to fight the Su30. Not to mention a full generation ahead of the JF-17 (according to its chinese designer)
You get what you pay for

Let solve this amicably.

You want to prove the gripen is better at some aspect, Pick up a specific aspect and let debate on it. Not just all this it has a better this and that you're all saying without enough facts.

You want to tackle radar, discuss about the radar system, compare with facts before moving to another.

Henry240:
www.nairaland.com/3220297/technical-discussions-international-military-equipments/38#49688701


Jln115, you guys should use the provided thread.

Okay.

jln115:
[s]Dude im not the one confused...you are, i know what an outside loop is, that's why i had to teach it to you, otherwise you would still be calling it a negative G dive!

Also you never asked for a video of a Gripen doing an outside loop.....you'll also never see an Air force fighter doing an outside loop anywhere in the world, as its an acrobatic maneuver not a combat maneuver.

But just because fighter pilots don't preform an outside loops doesn't mean a fighter jet can't do it.....WW1 era aircraft were able to do outside loops, i guarantee you fighters build 100 years later can also!

oh and BTW the max G load for the Gripen is +9/-4
Which is more then the Rafale: +9/-3.2[/s]
more than the Euro Fighter: +9/-3
more than the F/A 18: +9/-3

[s]Conclusion: If the Gripen can't preform a maneuver due to the G load stresses then no other Aircraft can either.[/s]

Good google helped you out. Aerodynamics tell better so don't teach me what I know. Sorry where did you get your source from? Are you indirectly saying gripen is a better maneuverable aircraft than the euro-fighter typhoon ?

Patchesagain:
Exactly.

They dont have lots of money, hence pressure to buy cheaper aircarft.

They chose half a squadron of Gripen over a full squadron of something else. That tells you all you need to know.

Also, Gripen can match the Su30MKI without AWACS in a BVR fight
https://www.africandefence.net/angolas-su-30ks-are-not-a-serious-threat-to-the-south-african-air-force/

Did you type this by mistake?

jln115:
No its called an outside loop not a negative G dive.!

And also your saying aircraft from the 1920's were able to do an outside loop but not the Gripen??

None of the video performed an outside loop.

(positive g) or an outside loop (negative g). Stop confusing yourself.

jln115:
No you said Negative G/ Inverted flight!

Oh I said Negative G ? Good. This is a Negative G and I didn't see the gripen perform that.
https://www.rc-airplane-advisor.com/images/Outside-Loop.jpg
This is a positive G
https://www.rc-airplane-advisor.com/images/Inside-Loop.jpg

They are both Inverted but my negative made a difference.

jln115:
Skip to 3:05


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4tRMvDGi1Y

SAAF Gripen Inverted Flypast 1:24-1:32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thUaVt5hcA8

Nice videos and I understand your points. I however said Inverted Negative G dive and not Inverted Dive

https://www.rc-airplane-advisor.com/images/Outside-Loop.jpg

Bolustic:
This is what I expected him to before, I don't trust the Nigerian judiciary.

United Nations, ICJ, ECOWAS, AU, G8, Israel and UNITED KINGDOM are coming to his aid. They'd definitely do justice.

Mr man Go and sit down. They ain't doing any shiit. Did America or Israel call you when they were prosecuting their own? Nigerians just lack exposure and everything on their brain is US,Israel,Russia etc. Who gives a damn?
This is a case of national security and therefore his offence for the rise against the Nigerian govt will only be judged by the Nigerian judiciary. He can take his Biafra to ICJ but not is call for war against the govt.

Air Missile Defence Technology Conference, taking place in Prague, Czech Republic, on the 24th and 25th of October 2016. Who's going? There is an £100 voucher code.

freshcvvs:
READ READ READ READ READ READ!

shio!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you so dumb? The post said she hit him with a bear bottle and I posted my opinion about Zims and bear. Ogbeni go and sleep, I have less time for bullshits.

jln115:
Please don't post junk from other threads here...the fact that you said the Gripen can't fly inverted means that you shouldn't even be discussing this topic.

The fact that you can't differentiate between an inverted negative G and a double barrel video caption means you shouldn't be here too. Show me a Video of a Gripen doing an Inverted negative G and not a picture taken during a double barrel roll which an Alpha Jet will also do.

patches689:
You mean Russia told Brazil, Thailand, Hungary and Botswana they would not sell to them?

Also, don't post that nonsense from the Swiss air trails.Who compares a single engine swing-role against dual engine air superiority fighters?

and your point is?

patches689:
You say it's over-rated...

Yet air forces keep buying it.

Why would poor countries keep paying soo much for an over-rated platform?

Because they have got no choice.
[img]http://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0e677c21fc60e1a6bec3b06c0b3241d5?convert_to_webp=true[/img]

Beautiful.
https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/2000/1XgAiUFnDAd25lJOsYhn5Mg.jpeg

Adminisher:
There are still unknown things about what the US calls stealth . I think it a careful mix of many technologies working simultaneously and controlled by computers. It is not just passive coating and masking of IR emissions alone. It is a soup with many ingredients

There's nothing special about US stealth except their method/technology applied. The technology behind their materials is just what is unknown. The principles are known but American technology behind the principles are classified.
Just like you said it's a mix of technology. It's Physics lol.
We all know Usain bolt and others run with legs but the secret behind bolt success is what we do not know.

Souljaboi1:
The same F-35 that has been riddled with problems since its first flight. One was even on fire at around midday on Friday at the Air Force Base at Idaho.

I still feel the F-16 is the most successful fighter program of the USAF.

The F35 has issues but still remain capable. The F22 is my favorite and I still consider it the best. If Nigeria operates the F35, we will consider the problem as minor but for the American they need something perfect.

Earlier this year, Pentagon Press Secretary George Little, said that an IRIAF (Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force) F-4 Phantom combat plane attempted to intercept a U.S. MQ-1 drone flying in international airspace off Iran.

As we reported back then, one of the two F-4 Phantom jets came to about 16 miles from the UAV but broke off pursuit after they were broadcast a warning message by two American planes escorting the Predator.

The episode happened in March 2013, few months after a two Sukhoi Su-25 attack planes operated by the Pasdaran (informal name of the IRGC – the Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution) attempted to shoot down an American MQ-1 flying a routine surveillance flight in international airspace some 16 miles off Iran, the interception of the unmanned aircraft failed. After this attempted interception the Pentagon decided to escort the drones involved in ISR (intelligence surveillance reconnaissance) missions with fighter jets (either F-18 Hornets with the CVW 9 embarked on the USS John C. Stennis whose Carrier Strike Group is currently in the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility or F-22 Raptors like those deployed to Al Dhafra in the UAE.

New details about the episode were recently disclosed by Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Welsh who on Sept. 17 not only confirmed that the fighter jets providing HVAAE (High Value Air Asset Escort) were F-22 stealth fighters but also said that:

“He [the Raptor pilot] flew under their aircraft [the F-4s] to check out their weapons load without them knowing that he was there, and then pulled up on their left wing and then called them and said ‘you really ought to go home'”

If the episode went exactly as Welsh described it, it was something more similar to Maverick’s close encouter with Russian Mig-28s in Top Gun movie than a standard interception.

It would be interesting to know how the Raptor managed to remain stealth (did they use their radar? were they vectored by an AWACS? etc.) and why it was not the E-2 most probably providing Airborne Early Warning in the area to broadcast the message to persuade the F-4 to pursuit the drone before the Iranian Phantoms and the U.S. Raptors got too close in a potentially dangerous and tense situation?

patches689:
Brazil's deal is expensive because it is for the latest Gripen which is a whole generation ahead.

It also includes funds for the development of the "sea-gripen" for their carrier.

The fact that people are willing to pay so much for the Gripen shows that it is not over-rated.

I'll go got the F35 instead just that it won't be sold to an African country.
Gripen is overrated. It's sure a good aircraft but the price tag is too high.