₦airaland Forum

Explore2xmore:
I am surprised you all don't see the diversions due to an absence of a clear explanation of the trinity with or without analogy.

You asked for analogy and it was given.

But mules want to mindlessly argue over their stupidity rather than present a logical rebuttal and to show that Taoheed is superior.

Unfortunately, Taoheed is a dumb doctrine that limits Allah to the level of the Taoheed of Iblis.

I asked you some simple basic questions:
Can you show that Allah is Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipotent using the implications of the Taoheed?

A. Allah is NOT Omniscient:
Otherwise, tell me how Allah did not know that the boy slaughtered needlessly by Al-Khidr will not live to become an adult
B. Allah is NOT Omnipresent:
Otherwise, tell me if Allah can be upon his throne and beneath it at the same time. Tell be if Allah can be above the seventh heaven and below it at the same time.
C. Allah is NOT Omnipotent:
Otherwise, tell me if it is possible for Allah to enter his creation without ceasing to be Allah? Tell me if Allah can have a son without having a female consort?

Petalss:
Since you have greater knowledge compared to that of Arab Christians, who am I to challenge your view on what you want them to call God in their indigenous language? I have made an effort to exclude Islamic considerations, but it seems there may be a personal issue you have with the Arabic language itself.

All I need from you is the truth

1. Is Allah the NAME of the God (Allah ) of the Arab Muslims?
2. Is Allah the NAME of the God (Allah ) of the Arab Christians?
3. Is Chukwu the NAME of the God (Allah) of the Ibo Christians?
4. Is Olorun the NAME of the God (Allah) of the Yoruba Christians?

If you cannot comprehend this simple thing

There are Many Presidents in the world BUT
#Bola Ahmed Tinubu is the Name of the President of Nigeria
#Joe Biden is the Name of the President of USA
# Vladimir Putin is the Name of the President of Russia



There are many Gods in the world, what is the name and the identity of your God?
Is this difficult to say?

The question is, what is the Identity of the Name of the Allah of the Arab Christians?

Qasim6:
What is the Pronunciation of YHWH and does it have a meaning?

Do you think by any means I can pronounce the Word YHWH perfectly? YHWH means "I AM!" or "I AM that I AM" meaning the "ONE WHOM ALL CONSISTS IN" or "THE ONE WHO IS SELF EXISTING!"

Thanks be to God that you can read. I cannot even pronounce Allah perfectly but at least I can write it with the Islamic adopted spelling of the transliteration of Allah!

Find another argument!

What is the meaning of the name Allah?

Is it Al-LAH (deity-Lah)?
The old Aramaic name of any Deity is Al- (El-)

Don't forget that
Abdul-LAH is the slave of LAH!
Alhamdulli-LAH is praise be to LAH!

Petalss:
While Arab Christians embrace the use of the Arabic language to refer to God as 'Allah', some Nigerian Christians, like Ten Q, disagree with this practice.

It's essential to recognize that one's dislike or criticism of Islam as a religion should not be conflated with the Arabic language itself. Arabic is a neutral language, a tool for communication, and its use should not be rejected solely because of its association with a particular religion.

In fact, many Arabic-speaking Christians have used the term 'Allah' to refer to God for centuries, highlighting the language's versatility and adaptability across different cultures and faiths.

But Allah is NOT a name just as God is not the name of God!


Is the name of your father Daddy?

Kingsempires:
Arab Christain call God ALLAH

Are you feigning Ignorance?


Is the name of your Father Daddy or he has a specific name?


God, Allah, Elohim, Adonai ate titles but not the Name!

What is the NAME of the God (Allah) of the Arab Christians?


Do you know it?

Qasim6:
Confusion in enemies camp

Unfortunately for u and Tenq the Jews don't believe you have the same God as them.

So do you guys worship a God that is counterfeit of the Jewish God?

Mr Liar: is your God a Boundless Spirit?
Is the name of your God YHWH?
If it isn't, you are a satan worshipper


Even your God doesn't know what a spirit it! SMH!

I have been asking you the Questions: is Allah Omnipresent and Omniscient and Omnipotent?
Your prophet says NO!

How can that be God?

Is the name of y

1. It is your prophet who claimed that his Deity is the same as our God and not the other way round.
2. Talk is cheap.

A. Allah is NOT Omniscient:
Otherwise, tell me how Allah did not know that the boy slaughtered needlessly by Al-Khidr will not live to become an adult
B. Allah is NOT Omnipresent:
Otherwise, tell me if Allah can be upon his throne and beneath it at the same time. Tell be if Allah can be above the seventh heaven and below it at the same time.
C. Allah is NOT Omnipotent:
Otherwise, tell me if it is possible for Allah to enter his creation without ceasing to be Allah? Tell me if Allah can have a son without having a female consort?


Taoheed destroyed the nature of Allah and reduced it to the level of the Taoheed of Iblis!

If only you can think, you will see that you've been scammed

Explore2xmore:
@Antichristian I ponder what you gain by apparently always questioning the christians anout their faith?

Is this the best way you can worship Allah that you have time to engage those who feign blindness, deafness and reasoning to reject the truth?

In any case using analogies to explain the concept of the Trinity has proven to be a futile endeavor.

Exodus 15:11 states Who among the gods is like you, Lord? Who is like you—majestic in holiness, awesome in glory, working wonders?

Isaiah 40:18 asks rhetorically, To whom will you compare God? What image will you compare him to?

It often appears that Christians ignore the theological implications of these verses which suggest that God cannot be confined to human understanding or categories.

Sadly they don't understand what is said in John emphasising that God must be worshipped in sincerity.

Allah's omnipotence (Al-Qadir) refers to Allah being all-powerful. He has absolute and unlimited power over all things. He is capable of doing anything that is in line with His will. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.(Quran 2:20)

Allah's omnipresence (Al-Hadir) refers to Allah's presence everywhere, though not in a physical sense. His presence is not confined to any specific location. Instead, Allah’s knowledge, awareness, and authority encompass the entire universe. This concept assures Muslims that they are never alone, as Allah is always with them, aware of their actions and thoughts.

"And He is with you wherever you are. And Allah, of what you do, is Seeing." (Quran 57:4)

Allah's Omniscience ; Al-‘Alim, Allah is all-knowing, possessing complete and perfect knowledge of everything, past, present, and future. His knowledge is not limited by time or space. Allah knows what is hidden and what is apparent, what has happened, what is happening, and what will happen. He is aware of the innermost thoughts and secrets of every individual.

"And with Him are the keys of the unseen; none knows them except Him. And He knows what is on the land and in the sea. Not a leaf falls but that He knows it." (Quran 6:59)

These attributes highlight Allah’s supreme and absolute nature in Islamic belief, portraying Him as the ultimate authority and sustainer of all existence.

1. It is your prophet who claimed that his Deity is the same as our God and not the other way round.
2. Talk is cheap.

A. Allah is NOT Omniscient:
Otherwise, tell me how Allah did not know that the boy slaughtered needlessly by Al-Khidr will not live to become an adult
B. Allah is NOT Omnipresent:
Otherwise, tell me if Allah can be upon his throne and beneath it at the same time. Tell be if Allah can be above the seventh heaven and below it at the same time.
C. Allah is NOT Omnipotent:
Otherwise, tell me if it is possible for Allah to enter his creation without ceasing to be Allah? Tell me if Allah can have a son without having a female consort?


Taoheed destroyed the nature of Allah and reduced it to the level of the Taoheed of Iblis!

If only you can think, you will see that you've been scammed

Ojuntana:
Eureka!!
There you have it. Bless your soul. The Arabic Allah in Islam is a counterfeit of the Jewish God.
You're enlightened

Exactly!
Allah of the Muslims is truely a counterfeit Deity.
Allah is NOT a Father to anyone
Allah is NOT a Spirit
Allah is neither Omnipotent nor Omniscient nor Omnipresent!

Allah desires that people will commit sins and always beg him for forgiveness: is not satan in disguise?

How can such be God?

Petalss:
Yeah, I am lost.

I'm feeling confused. You mentioned that Arab Christians refer to God as YHWH, but I’ve heard differently from Arab Christians themselves. It seems like there’s a contradiction between what you said and what they believe. I’m not sure who is mistaken here, but I’d like to understand the truth.

I guess you are not educated about the Arab Christians.

Again,
The Name of the Allah of the Arab Christians is YHWH!


Ask any Muslim if any of the 99 names of Allah is YHWH?
The name of the Allah of the Arab Muslims is Allah!

Ojuntana:
It is the lie you were fed that's under discussion here.
The major lie that Muhammad is a prophet. Judge for yourself if Muhammad passed the test of a prophet which he willingly took himself from the hadith below:


Ignoring the first two answers as they are futuristic and thus not verifiable, and using the third answer given by Muhammad, do you think he passed the test of prophethood which he took or he failed?

If Mohammed is a prophet of God, why did he recite the satanic verses?

If Mohammed is a prophet, why was he accused of stealing a red (velvet) cloth by his followers?

If Mohammed is a prophet, why does he ascribe unto his God permissions to Muslims to committing halal prostitution?

If Mohammed is a prophet, why was he under the spell of satan (black magic) for almost a year?

If Mohammed is a prophet why must Muslim men divorce their wives so that he can marry the women?

If Mohammed is a prophet, why did he marry the wife of his adopted son?

Let me stop here, I guess you can explain why for each.

AntiChristian:
Who is defining it? Show us where it is defined explicitly?



Saying that YHWH is the Father, Word, and Holy Spirit has limitations, including:

Oversimplification: It reduces the complexity of the Trinity, obscuring the distinct roles of each person.
Misunderstanding Personhood: It conflates the individuality of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, undermining their unique identities.
Biblical Context: It neglects the distinct roles outlined in Scripture, misrepresenting their interactions.
Historical Theology: It diverges from traditional Christian creeds that affirm the co-equality and co-eternity of the three persons.

God cannot die! YHWH the word died! If all of them are co-equal Jesus won't be acting like a messenger to the father!

Holding conversations with humans is different from existing as three different persons with different identities and persons! Stop the confusion!



Here are the limitations this poses!
1. You oversimplified God to be just three reversible identities like steam, water and Ice! The triple point simplifies the complex nature of the Trinity by reducing it to three states of the same substance, rather than three distinct persons coexisting in one divine essence.

2. Your Water analogy has no Personhood. While it clear the father is not equal to the son while the son is not equal to the spirit. They all have different roles according to your Bible! Steam = Water = Ice!

3. Each of your Trinitarian Gods have different roles which your water analogy cannot depict!

4. And you mentioning the triple point of water represents a static case unlike the Trinitarian case that is dynamic involving continuous interactions among the parts! For example, Jesus said by himself he can do nothing! In triple point, Is water dependent on Ice to exist in that state?



1. This presents trinity as though the components Gods exist as one entity! Each of the human body component never exists on its own to make a complete human! They must exist together. Is this same for the trinity? When Jesus died was his father still God?

2. It also presents us with hierarchical wahala. The body, Spirit and Soul are not co-equal! Are your Gods similar?

3. The state of a human body, soul and spirit can change over time! Does the trinity change likewise?

4. The analogy does not adequately capture the relational dynamics among the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as the human components do not interact in the same profound way that the divine persons do.

Debating a mule is a waste of time.
Since ANYTHING I say wouldn't mean a thing except over simplification which you still do not comprehend.

Since when does an ANALOGY of Trinity become an exact representation of God?

I have shown you how the Trinity explicitly shows that God is Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipotent.

Let's look at Taoheed for the same test

1. Is Allah based on the Taoheed Omnipresent?
2. Is Allah based on the Taoheed Omnipotent?
3. Is Allah based on the Taoheed Omniscient?

If Allah is not these three simultaneously, his Taoheed is not different from that of Iblis!

Ojuntana:
The Qur'an was written in Arabic not English. The use of We in English royalty was to recognise the sovereignty of the English people residing in its royalty. It could also be referred to as "We(England) are not amused".
The fallacy in your argument is drawing equivalence between Arabic personification and English when both are not known to share any common linguistic or cultural bond.
Is there any example of an Arab sovereign referring to itself as We before Allah in the Qur'an?
Same Allah sometimes referred to itself as I when it suited it. As a god that's vehemently sought to establish its monotheistic value, would it not have been better to stick to I instead of We?
The God of the Jews never used plural to refer himself in original Greek and Hebrew. If Allah is same as the Jewish God Yahweh, why did he now go and cause confusion in Arabic?

Have you noticed that the God of Abraham, Isaac , Moses and David doesn't speak in this manner?

Check the Taurat, Zabur and Injeel and show if God speaks like Allah in the Qur'an

Qasim6:
Keep running helter skelter.

Even the Jews you Christians claim you worship the same YHWH with. They disagree with you on the concept of God.

Their view on YHWH is closer to our view on Allah
Their view on God as echad is the same as our view of ahad

So where do you Christians get your own YHWH and your echad (compound one) from? from Iblis?

YHWH of the Jews is a Boundless spirit who is also a Father consisting of Everything in existence hence the word Echad


Allah of the Muslims is NOT a spirit and is one so that you Muslims use the word Ahead (unity) to describe him.


Can you prove that Mohammed did not unify all the Deities of the Kaaba into the Identity of the God of his father Abdullah who has three daughters?

Petalss:
Let us set aside the Islamic perspective, as an Arab Christian, what should I traditionally call God in my language?

Is it true that the name of the Allah of the Muslim Arabs is Allah?

The name of the Allah of the Christian Arab is not Allah but YHWH!

Here you are lost!

Qasim6:
What we can all agree as human being is trinity is not something that can be explained logically. Just like the concept of Jesus being fully man and fully God.

The reason why I am of the opinion that Christianity as a religion is 100% faith and 0% common sense because you are not going to be needing your common sense to accept Christianity, it is just going to be lot of emotional preaching like "God love us so much, he became flesh to die for our sins", "I saw Jesus in my dream" and the likes.. because the evidence of this triune God is find wanting and not clearly stated in Bible.

Is Allah a Spirit? No!
Is Allah a Father? No!
Is Allah Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient? No!

Allah is NOT the God of Abraham, Moses and David thus It's of no wonder that Allah is just as complex like Iblis in description (very simple to describe).

Ojuntana:
The Qur'an was written in Arabic not English. The use of We in English royalty was to recognise the sovereignty of the English people residing in its royalty. It could also be referred to as "We(England) are not amused".
The fallacy in your argument is drawing equivalence between Arabic personification and English when both are not known to share any common linguistic or cultural bond.
Is there any example of an Arab sovereign referring to itself as We before Allah in the Qur'an?
Same Allah sometimes referred to itself as I when it suited it. As a god that's vehemently sought to establish its monotheistic value, would it not have been better to stick to I instead of We?
The God of the Jews never used plural to refer himself in original Greek and Hebrew. If Allah is same as the Jewish God Yahweh, why did he now go and cause confusion in Arabic?

Was this the lie you were fed or that Allah is actually a unification of Deitys or what do you think AHAD means?

Cc: Qasim6
Simplicity isn't the same as correctness!
Taoheed is limited in every sense.
There is NOTHING Comparable to YHWH because He alone is Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipresent at the same time

AntiChristian:
The concept of the Trinity—the Christian doctrine that defines God as one being in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—has been explained through various analogies and theological frameworks. Here’s a summary of some of the best ways it has been explained, along with the corresponding impediments to each explanation:

1.Water Analogy
Explanation: Water can exist in three states: liquid, ice, and steam. Each state is fundamentally water yet manifests differently.
Impediment: This analogy leans towards modalism, suggesting that God merely changes forms rather than existing simultaneously in three persons.

2.Triangular Analogy
Explanation: A triangle has three sides and is one shape. Each side represents a person of the Trinity, unified as one entity.
Impediment: This can imply that the persons of the Trinity are merely parts of a whole, which can lead to a misunderstanding of the distinctiveness and co-equality of the three persons.

3.Roles of a Person Analogy
Explanation: A person can be a parent, a child, and a sibling simultaneously, showcasing different roles while remaining one person.
Impediment: This analogy risks falling into partialism or modalism as well, blurring the lines of individual personhood within the Trinity.

4.Sun Analogy
Explanation: The sun represents the Father, its light represents the Son, and heat represents the Holy Spirit. All are aspects of the same source.
Impediment: This analogy can imply that the Son and the Holy Spirit are not fully divine as they are merely emanations from the Father.

5. Mathematical Analogy
Explanation: Using the equation 1 + 1 + 1 = 1, this analogy emphasizes the unity of the three persons in one essence.
Impediment: It can confuse those unfamiliar with advanced mathematics and may not effectively convey the relationship between the three persons. 1+1+1= 3 not 1.

6. The Egg Analogy
The egg analogy explains the Trinity using an egg's three parts: shell, egg white, and yolk, which together form one egg. It illustrates unity and distinction. However, it risks partialism, implying each part is only a portion of God, and oversimplifies the complex relationships among the three persons.

So what is the best way to explain trinity without embracing modalism, partialism or debasing God from what He is not?

I wish this is because you are interim the TRUTH about God but I doubt. Notwithstanding, the conclusion is that
1. Allah is the Name of the God of the Muslims
YHWH is the Name of the God of the Jews and Christians
AND
Allah is NOT YHWH!

2. An analogy is just a parable used to explain that which is complex and complicated with easily grasp illustrations for aiding comprehension of such complexity.

3. Thus, Trinity is defined as this
There is Only ONE God whose name is YHWH the creator of the Heavens and the Universe. This God is a SPIRIT and this Infinite Spirit is Called the Holy Spirit who is Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipresent and He has revealed Himself as
The Father
The Word
The Holy Spirit

4
a. YHWH the Holy Spirit:
This is the INVISIBLE and INFINITE manifestation of God. He is simultaneously everywhere in both the physical and spiritual space and time.
b. YHWH the Father:
He is the VISIBLE image of the invisible God who presides over the throne in the spiritual space called heaven where Angels and other limited spirit beings dwell.
c. YHWH the Word:
He is the VISIBLE image of the invisible God who can be anywhere in creation physical and spiritual where the visible and tangible presence of YHWH is required. This Word became Human in Jesus Christ as the Ransom for the sin of humans from the judgement of God with Hell Fire.

Just as God can simultaneously and independently hold conversations with every individuals who has ever existed (physical or spiritual), so also God as ONE BEING chose to express Himself as three Persons known on Earth with the nomenclature the Father, the Son (Word) and the Holy Spirit




Analogies
1. States of Matter (e.g. H2O)
H2O = Water (Liquid)
H2O = Ice (Solid)
H2O= Steam (Gas)
Ice is not Water, Water is not Steam and Steam is not Ice BUT all these Are three states of H2O
Note:
ICE, WATER and STEAM can simultaneously co-exist as In thermodynamics, the triple point of a substance is the temperature and pressure at which the three phases (gas, liquid, and solid) of that substance coexist in thermodynamic equilibrium.

2. States of humans
A human being exist simultaneously as a Trinity of the Body, the Soul and Spirit.
YOU = Body (Physical Identity)
YOU = Soul (Internal or Personal Identity)
YOU = Spirit (Spiritual Identity)
But because you do not believe in Trinity, I will just use the Duality of man as an illustration.

When your prophet went to Paradise on the Al-Burak, did he truely See Abraham and Moses and Joseph or it was an illusion?


When you Muslims die, two angels are expected to ask you three questions of
Who is your Lord?
What is your Religion? and
Who is your Prophet?
Will the Angels ask your Physical Body these Questions or they will ask your Soul/Spirit?


God YHWH is the Only INFINITE Spirit and Everything in Existence exists INSIDE Him. Nothing exists Outside Him. But, God YHWH can also simultaneously be within His creations.


If you cannot understand these simple illustrations, you are a lost case.


Questions:
1. Is Allah a Spirit?
2. If Allah is one and he is above his throne which is above the seven heavens, can Allah also be below his throne without leaving his throne?
3. Can Allah enter his creations without ceasing to be Allah?
4. Is Allah Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent ?


The doctrine of Taoheed unfortunately limits Allah such that he is neither Omnipotent nor Omniscient nor Omnipresent



YHWH is Unlike ANYTHING in creation because He is Omnipresent, Omnipotent and Omniscient AND nothing in creation is close to this. YHWH is the Only Being who can be simultaneously ANYWHERE and EVERYWHERE at the same time.

Rashduct4luv:
Make sure you read it to the end! You can get the books or search the references if available online.

Lamartine
"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results are the three criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any great man in modern history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples and dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and souls... the forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death; all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold, the unit of God and the immateriality of God; the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with words."
"Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas, restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"

Histoire de la Turquie, Paris 1854, Vol II, pp. 276-77

George Bernard Shaw
"If a man like Muhamed were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness."

Edward Gibbon and Simon Ocklay
"It is not the propagation but the permanency of his religion that deserves our wonder, the same pure and perfect impression which he engraved at Mecca and Medina is preserved, after the revolutions of twelve centuries by the Indian, the African and the Turkish proselytes of the Koran...The Mahometans have uniformly withstood the temptation of reducing the object of their faith and devotion to a level with the senses and imagination of man. 'I believe in One God and Mahomet the Apostle of God', is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honors of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion."

History of the Saracen Empire, London, 1870, p. 54

Encyclopedia Britannica
" a mass of detail in the early sources shows that he was an honest and upright man who had gained the respect and loyalty of others who were likewise honest and upright men." (Vol. 12)

Prof. C. Snouck Hurgronje
"The league of nations founded by the prophet of Islam put the principle of international unity and human brotherhood on such universal foundations as to show candle to other nations." He continues: "The fact is that no nation of the world can show a parallel to what Islam has done towards the realization of the idea of the League of Nations ."

Mahatma Gandhi
"I wanted to know the best one who holds today's undisputed way over the hearts of millions of mankind....I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These -and not the sword- carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life."

Sarogini Naidu
The famous poetess of India says about Islam: "It was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy; for in the mosque, when the call for prayer is sounded and worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and king kneel side by side and proclaim: 'God Alone is Great'! I have been struck over and over again by this indivisible unity of Islam that makes man instinctively a brother."

Ideals of Islam, video Speeches and Writings, Madras, 1918, p.169

Bosworth Smith
"He was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without Pope's pretensions, Caesar without the legions of Caesar: without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue; if ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by the right divine, it was Mohammed, for he had all the power without its instruments and without its supports."

Mohammed and Mohammadanism, London 1874, p. 92

James A. Michener
"Muhammad, the inspired man who founded Islam, was born about A.D. 570 into an Arabian tribe that worshipped idols. Orphaned at birth, he was always particularly solicitous of the poor and needy, the widow and the orphan, the slave and the downtrodden. At twenty he was already a successful businessman, and soon became director of camel caravans for a wealthy widow. When he reached twenty-five his employer, recognizing his merit, proposed marriage. Even though she was fifteen years older, he married her, and as long as she lived, remained a devoted husband."
"Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God's word, sensing his own inadequacy. But the angel commanded 'Read'. So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God."
"In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred, and rumors of God's personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, 'An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human-being.'
"At Muhammad's own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: 'If there are any among you who worshipped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you worshipped, He lives forever.'"

Are these the validations for your prophet who lived 600 years after Jesus and you couldn't find one historical source other than from the 19th and 20th century!?
SMH!

You should have included my name because I also write extensively about Mohammed.

Rashduct4luv:
Taoheed is not only about names and Attributes! It is more than that!

There's Taoheed of Lordship! Only Allah creates, provides divinely, etc.
There's Taoheed of Worship! Only Allah deserves being worshipped, being prayed to, etc.

Taoheed is basically about the ONENESS of Allah, QED and the oneness of Allah is not different from the oneness of Iblis?

Rashduct4luv:
This is error filled! Allah has absolute knowledge of all things! So He is present everywhere by His knowledge. Since He is present by his knowledge why does He still need to be physically present in his creation? This is like saying the creator of a computer OS need be in the OS to control it or know what is happening in there! Allah is greater than all his creations combined together! His Throne extends over the heavens and the earth!

It seems you don't know the definition of OMNIPRESENCE. It means being SOMEWHERE and EVERYWHERE at the same instance.

Is Allah EVERYWHERE? No!
Is Iblis EVERYWHERE?No!

Rashduct4luv:
Allah has no need for sons to inherit him. He has no need for sons, wives, etc. Allah is the All-Mighty! The God who begets no one and is not begotten! This is the real power! Being able to save your creations without the need to kill anyone!

It is not about needing sons it is about ABILITY.
What I have shown you is that Allah LACKS some basic Abilities.
Can Allah have a child without needing a woman for sex? No!
Can Allah bring forth from Himself a Being without needing a consort? No!
Thanks for showing that Allah is not Omnipotent.

Rashduct4luv:
Actually i don't know how all these relates to Taoheed (Oneness) of Allah!

My own God is so powerful that He is in Heaven on His throne, On Earth and Everywhere else in space and time.

Omniscience means having perfect knowledge of the Past, Present and Future of Everything.
a. Does Allah know how a Baby is formed? No! Allah thinks a baby is formed from the sperm which turns into congealed blood.
b. Does Allah know the Destiny of the young boy killed by Al-Khidr? No! Allah did not know that the boy would not grow up into Adulthood.
c. Can Allah answer questions like
-who stole the red underwear Mohammed was accused of stealing ?
- what is a spirit?
- what is the number of sleeping people in the cave?


So, can you see how Taoheed limits Allah to a being who is neither Omnipotent nor Omniscient nor Omnipresent?

Rashduct4luv:
We believe he existed mainly because of the Qur'an and Sunnah which could have never been revealed by any human entity! Islam needs no validation from secular sources like Christianity! So Buddhism/Hinduism to be proven true their originators must have evidence from one or two secular historical sources! That's absurd!

In other words, there exist no single collaborative evidence outside Islam that Mohammed existed even though he was a successful political and military leader.

Rashduct4luv:
And as regard Taoheed, which is the oneness of Allah in His Lordship, in His worship and His names and Attributes, how does this compare to Iblis?

1. Iblis once worshipped Allah in the company of the Angels!
2. Iblis was granted respite by Allah till the day of resurrection!
3. Iblis has no power of his own except whatever Allah wills.

Taoheed limits the attributes of Allah to the attributes of Iblis as Allah is not Omnipresent nor Omnipotent nor Omniscient exactly as Iblis.

Rashduct4luv:
4. Allah is omniscient, omnipotent and Omnipresent as it befits His majesty! He is not human like us nor like the Angels or Jinn! He is not comparable to any of His creations!

Let me prove it to you
1. Omnipresence:
Omnipresence means Being equally present everywhere in both physical and spiritual space and time.
a. If Allah is on his throne above the seven heavens upon the waters, then Allah is not at the same time below the seven heavens. Thus Allah is not Omnipresent .
b. If Allah cannot enter his creation without ceasing to be Allah, then Allah is not present within any of his creation and thus Allah is not Omnipresent.

2. Omnipotence:
Omnipotence means having infinite powers to BE and DO whatever thing that doesn't negate his Almighty Power.
a. Allah cannot have a child because he doesn't have a girlfriend (consort) unlike Mary who can have a Son without the need for a man or copulation.
b. Does Allah have the power to be Omnipresent? No! Is it possible for Allah to be somewhere and everywhere at the same time? No! Thus Allah is not Omnipotent


3. Omniscience:
Omniscience means having perfect knowledge of the Past, Present and Future of Everything.
a. Does Allah know how a Baby is formed? No! Allah thinks a baby is formed from the sperm which turns into congealed blood.
b. Does Allah know the Destiny of the young boy killed by Al-Khidr? No! Allah did not know that the boy would not grow up into Adulthood.
c. Can Allah answer questions like
-who stole the red underwear Mohammed was accused of stealing ?
- what is a spirit?
- what is the number of sleeping people in the cave?


So, can you see how Taoheed limits Allah to a being who is neither Omnipotent nor Omniscient nor Omnipresent?

Ghostagain:
Are you alright ?
Please go and see a doctor.

Ghostagain:
I just looked at a map, I failed to find Putin on it, have you seen the doctor yet ?

It's too easy to recognise a court jester because like toddlers, they can't hold any intellectual conversations but babble about for there's nothing of value in knowledge they can say.
As a proof, check your quotes!


Have a nice sleep and I hope that your maturity would have at least marginally increased in the next ten years from now.

Don't worry replying for you have been ghosted!
LOL

Watcharena:
the win win is that the west and Ukraine want to disgrace putin they can get that,russia want to win the war they can also get that

Please a small boy and a giant are fighting and all you do is to refer to another person.

Who invaded Ukraine?
Whose land was invaded?

If Putin couldn't fight his mate (NATO) but the small Ukraine, then leave NATO out of the equation.

Again:
What should Putin do for peace in Ukraine?
What should Ukraine do for peace with Putin?


Ukraine didn't ask for war with Putin!

Ghostagain:
I think you need to read my comment again and again until you understand.



Dude, you don't understand the concept of provocation. Also stop kidding yourself, most of Ukraine has always been a part of Russia, the separation only took place in 1991. About half of Ukraine still identifies as russian, and those guys were being slaughtered by the western Ukrainians after the coup of 2014.

It is not provocation if Putin invaded and annexes Crimea that is part of Ukraine in 2014.
It is not provocation when Putin feeling like he is ten times in every way invades Ukraine with the ultimate goal of taking the rest of Ukraine.


If you don't know, language and culture alone isn't the determining factor of Citizenship.

English is spoken in both Canada and USA yet we all respect the international borders.
FYI the Yoruba of Benin Republic are NOT Nigerians and will not be Nigerians.

This is simply the argument of a fat selfish Bully!
Maybe Putin should tell you who sponsored the separatist movements in the Donbass area after 2014.

Tell me your peace plan between Ukraine and Putin!

Ghostagain:
"putting Putin to shame" 🤣
Russia's goal is to win this war.
Ukraine and NATO's goal is to put Putin to shame 🤣

Both sides can actually achieve their goals simultaneously 👍🏿

Win-win solutions exist.

Tell me the win win solution that will not involve
1. The capitulation of Ukraine
2. The loss of Ukrainian lands
For Ukraine did not choose this war, it was brought upon them by Putin who thought the war would be a walkover

princemillla:
That's not Ukraine at work. It's the west. NATO.

I hope u will also celebrate wen Russia retaliates the same spicy food

Some people like deceiving themselves:just because Ukraine is putting Putin to shame does not mean that Ukraine is NATO!

WriterNig:
Russia is just testing NATO AD response time.

👍🏻 Like for Russia-Putin, share for USA/Nazi/NATO 卍

If NATO did exactly the same, you would be screaming Blue Murder!
SMH!

Rashduct4luv:
Of what use is this to you a Christian who doesn't believe in Muhammad salallahu alayhi wasalam or Islam or even strict monotheism?

Educational information and curiousity sir!
I don't believe in Alexander the Great too sir but I am familiar with his history and anticedent.

The question again:

Can you please help me with at least one or two secular historical sources at the time of Mohammed asides islamic sources showing that Mohammed, the great military and religious leader of the Arabs even existed?


On Taoheed, please cover your head in shame because it limits your Allah to a status as low as that of Iblis. As you know that Iblis is neither Omnipotent nor Omniscient nor Omnipresent: is it different for Allah?

Rashduct4luv:
The point is that the date the Prophet was born is not know for certain!

Can you please help me with at least one or two secular historical sources at the time of Mohammed asides islamic sources showing that Mohammed, the great military and religious leader of the Arabs even existed?

honesttalk21:
You claim to be mandated to show truth.
Must your version or interpretation of the truth be forced on another?

Did your Jesus force the truth on anyone?
Sincerely answer.

Are you not mislead by the political recognition under Constinople to force your view or you are reawakening the acts of the crusaders?

1Peter 3:15 reads But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear

Did I ask you about your hope or reason for it?

Do you show meekness in your mannerisms?

My claim again:
I am mandated by Christ to show you the truth because the Truth will set you free from spiritual bondage
It is impossible to force my views on anyone except by duress and threats (which is impossible on a forum like Nairaland)

I can understand that you don't like the message because the TRUTH sometimes hurt. It is like telling you that the document and deeds of the fake choice property given to you by a 419 agent for N50million Naira at Asokoro or Maitama is fake and that you should back out of the deal before you loose your capital.

If I truly care about you, my job will be to rain on you every available TRUTH and INFORMATION that will make you check up on the lies you have been fed with.

At the end of the day, it will still be your CHOICE to choose but it is my responsibility to do my very best as a brother to furnish you with ALL necessary FACTS showing you HOW and WHY you are about being DEFRAUDED and show you where to get a GENUINE property.

How else have I not show meekness to you? Do I insult you or rail at you or against those against your soul? (Allah, Mohammed and Islam) and the last I checked, You are not Allah, you are not Mohammed and you are not Islam!

Tell me, if a sick friend of yours collected a deadly poison instead of drugs from a 419 doctor, how will you go about preventing this your friend from wasting his life with your meekness?
If you can seize this poison from your sick friend and destroy it, will you do so?

-Will you be persistent?
-Will you be zealous?
-Will you furnish him with enough Truth?
-Will you be gentle with the fake doctor, his nurses and hospital?


It is obvious that it is impossible that both Islam and Christianity be TRUE

This is what Jesus said:
Mar 16:15-16:
"And he said to them, Go you into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned."

I care about your salvation sir. Why will you hold on to a religion that is based on falsehood? We can understand if the religion of satan is based on cascades of falsehood BUT Can the religion of God be based on falsehood?

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way that looks right to a man but the end of it is destruction...

I pray that the Grace of God will come to you and that your spiritual eyes be open to know the Messiah and His purpose.

I pray that YOU honesttalk21 will become SAVED and end up preaching the gospel of Christ to all In Jesus name: Amen!

honesttalk21:
We are not mandated to agree.
You are no law over me and neither am I over you. I put forth logical arguments which you are at liberty to agree or disagree with.

I am mandated by Christ to show you the truth because the Truth will set you free from spiritual bondage

honesttalk21:
Your inclination to exaggerate when you know God breathed what is known as his spirit into Adam. This same spirit is shared by all mankind.

Unfortunately, you don't have any explanation for why Al-Qudus is NOT an attribute of Allah that Allah breathes into Adam or anyone. Is Al-Qudus not a living being from Allah?

Jesus like Ruh Al-Qudus was not breathe from Allah: Jesus is a Spirit send down from Allah into Mary.
Worst of it is that no Muslim can say exactly what the spirit is. Is Jesus an attribute of Allah? Yes or No!

honesttalk21:
Do you not ask yourself why 'gods son' did not just appear as you say he was with God at the beginning?

Why did 'god's son' have to be born by a descendant of Adam? Or she too miraculously existed?

Jesus was born through the descendant of Adam that he may be able to stand as a ransom for us human?

Even in Islam, will any Angel or Jinn be ransom for you Muslims? No!
According to your prophet, Jews and Christians will stand as ransom for you from hell fire!

honesttalk21:
Will the antichrist not just appear or will he born?

You are the Muslim, tell me how the Islamic Dajjal will be born
Why did your prophet compare Allah to the Dajjal? It seems that the difference between them is that Allah has two eyes while the Dajjal has only one working eyes

honesttalk21:
It's your prerogative to live by your definitions of god as others have theirs. Stop imposing your views.

Is the Messiah an Arabic word or a Hebrew word?
If it is indeed a Hebrew word, then if the TRUTH matters to you, you should use the Hebrew definition.

honesttalk21:
Your understanding of omnipotence and presence are skewed terribly wrong.

The supreme is close to his creation as all came from him so there's no need for him to exclusicely enter into it.

1. Is your Allah everywhere in space and time physical and spiritual? If the answer is NO, then Allah is not Omnipresent
2. Can your Allah enter his creation without ceasing to be Allah? If the answer is NO, then Allah is not Omnipotent
3. Does Allah know the future (Did he destined the boy Al-Khidr killed to die young or to die old) except you can show that the boys destiny is to die young, Allah does not know the future. Does Allah know the past? If he thinks either the story of Dhul-Qarnayn is true or the story of the sleepers in the cave is true, then he knows not the past.

honesttalk21:
If your trinity consists of God, Jesus and the holy spirit that are equal yet God father is above the others why is there no instruction in your confusion to worship the holy spirit as you worship Jesus and God?

Does this not point at an inequality?

Just as Allah is not knowledgeable of the trinity, you too is completely ignorant or lying about the trinity.

Trinity is this
God YHWH is the Holy Spirit
God YHWH is the Word
God YHWH is the Father

honesttalk21:
Not interested in your answer as it doesn't benefit me in any way. Just be in your beliefs amongst your likes or aren't they enough company for you?

I see you are stuck on comparing prophets. Do your best to follow your prophet and worry less about comparing him unless you doubt what is presented as his message to you.

Even at that comparing them isn't the answer you seek. Search yourself deep into your soul and ask so you will be given

I don't compare prophets,
I compare the Identity of Allah with the identity of Yahweh
I compare the Identity of Mohammed with the Identity of Jesus
I compare the Identity of the religion of Islam with the identity of Christianity and Judaism

Why?
Allah is the Al-Makr, Mohammed is a fake prophet and Islam leads straight to hellfire!

I am commanded to test doctrines to know the source

1Jn 4:1-3:
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know you the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof you have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."
1Jn 4:14-15: "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. Whoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwells in him, and he in God."





The Truth will definitely set you Free on the day you decide or chose to adopt it.

I wonder at the relevance of all these you typed to the serious questions I raised.
Notwithstanding, I will oblige you

honesttalk21:
In Islam, Jesus (known as Isa in Arabic) is also considered the Messiah.

According to Islamic teachings, Jesus was born of a virgin, performed miracles, and will return before the Day of Judgment. However, Islam does not view him as the son of God or divine; rather, he is a revered prophet and messenger.

Unfortunately, this islamic view contradict the earlier revealed scripture which Allah claims to subscribe to.
1. If Jesus is a Spirit from Allah just as Jibril is a spirit, does it not mean that Jesus was existing before he was put inside Mary?
2. If Jesus is a Word of Allah, is the Word of Allah created? Is the word of Allah not an attribute of Allah?
3. Why is the title Ruhullah or Kalimatullah not given to Adam or any other Bring other than Jesus
4. Does it make any logical sense that Mohammed be the greatest prophet even higher than Jesus?

Who is that one propagating falsehood to you?

honesttalk21:
The term Messiah in this context is associated with his role as a leader and a sign of the Day of Resurrection, rather than an implication of divinity.

The title Messiah of Jesus is not but his anointing, serves to emphasize the anointed aspect of Jesus without attributing additional divine characteristics to him.

Thus, while Muslims honor all prophets, comparing them in any way diminishes the status or message of any one of them is generally discouraged. Each prophet has a unique role in the divine plan, and their contributions should be appreciated within that context.

Muslims are advised not to compare the prophets. This stems from the belief that all prophets are chosen by Allah (God) and are equal in their status as messengers, conveying His message to humanity.

You do not have any authority to redefine the term Messiah other than the definition of the Jews and Christians.
The term Messiah is not Arabic, it is Hebrew sir.

What is the meaning of the term Messiah as defined by either Mohammed or Allah?
Don't fabricate a definition that is designed to make you ignorant.

honesttalk21:
The Quran explicitly mentions the importance of respecting all prophets. For example, Surah Al-Baqarah (2:253) states:

"Those messengers, some of them We caused to surpass others; and among them were those to whom Allah spoke. And He raised some of them in degrees. And We gave Jesus, the son of Mary, clear proofs and We supported him with the Pure Spirit. And if Allah had willed, those who came after them would not have fought each other, but they differed. And if Allah had willed, they would not have fought each other, but Allah does what He intends."

This verse highlights that while some prophets may have specific roles or experiences, all hold a significant place in the Islamic tradition. The importance is on their messages and the guidance they provided, rather than creating hierarchies among them.

Only Mohammed is the Islamic prophet and don't drag the prophets of the Jews and Christians to your level.

If you claim to believe in the prophets, why do you refuse to Read their Books. Even if you hate the new testament, you still have 24 books of the Tanak.

Your case is like a person under the control of a 419 that gave you a deed of assignment of a property BUT makes sure you do not verify it.

Great will be the consequences of your deception.

honesttalk21:
You obsession with comparison shows your closeness to the Satan who sees himself better than mankind.

Tell me how to identify a FAKE from the ORIGINAL without comparison?


At least, you now know that
1. Allah is NOT Yahweh
2. Allah is NOT a Spirit
3. Allah is NOT Omnipotent nor Omniscient nor Omnipresent
4. Allah desires us to commit sin in other than we may beg him for forgiveness
5. Allah is NOT a Father even in a figurative sense.
6. Allah cannot enter his creation without ceasing to be Allah

Only if you willingly choose to Deceive yourself will you think this your Allah is the same as the God of Abraham, Moses and the earlier prophets.

honesttalk21:
I stated clearly that Hermes and Hades have nothing in common with Allah.

Rather there are similarities with your trinity that eats with mankind who he created are numerous.

Their joint similarities with Zeus of Greece which was conquered by Rome as the Israelites is very clear.


WHY IS CHRISTIANITY STRUGGLING TO VALIDATE THIS CRUCIFIXION up to the shroud of Turin tale?

Nothing in common!?
LOL!

1. Allah is one and cannot be in more than one place at a time EXACTLY like Hermes and Hades
2. Allah does not have a wife and no children EXACTLY like Hermes and Hades
3. Humanity are slaves to Allah EXACTLY as humanity are slaves to Hermes and Hades
4. Allah have body parts like hands, feet, legs etc EXACTLY like Hermes and Hades
5. Allah is NOT a spirit EXACTLY as Hermes and Hades are not spirits.
These similarities are close enough isn't it


Get is right: The shroud of Turin CANNOT validate the crucifixion.

honesttalk21:
I shouldn't start with your failure to provide evidence that the Saudi Arabia FBI have an on going case as you LIED about any missing red velvet.

It however is the first in this reply of yours.

1. What is the meaning of FBI?
2. Does Saudi Arabia have "FBI"!?
The joke is on you: anything to deflect from the real argument is normal with Muslims.

honesttalk21:
Of course you don't see that Quran 3:161 clearly exonerated the prophet of this bad behaviour. It emphasises the justice done in sharing by the prophet.

Who recited Qur'an 3:161 as evidence? Wasn't it Mohammed himself!?
If I stole your money and told you that God said I did not steal the money, is that a sufficient evidence or a fluke?

Mohammed made a claim that not a single Muslim could validate.

honesttalk21:
You also are unaware the incident was resolved when the Prophet Muhammad pbuh intervened and addressed the companions. He asked for the missing piece of red velvet to be returned, and eventually, it was found in the possession of a companion who had mistakenly taken it. The companion returned the red velvet, and the matter was resolved peacefully.

This is UNTRUE else,
1. Provide the evidence from your Sahih Hadits to show WHO stole the undies
2. Why did Allah not just say who took the underwear except that Allah seems to be as limited in knowledge as the Arabs OR Mohammed was hiding under Allah as he stole the dress.

honesttalk21:
As usual you play blind and refuse to investigate on your own the truth of Abu Bakr, Umar, Ali and Aisha witnessing the revelations from Jibril.

Please present just one Evidence from your Sahih Hadiths where Abubaker, Umar, Ali or Aisha saw Jibril AND identified him as such in any form he could have taken (even as Dihyah Al-Kalbi)

honesttalk21:
On the divorce of Zainab you are dishonest in your assertions.

I also see you are too ashamed to define the meaning of son in law

You do not know she only married in reverence to the prophet. Was she happily married to Zaid?

1. Did Mohammed marry the wife of his son-in-law?
2. Did Mohammed enter the house of a married woman when her husband wasn't home?
3. Did Mohammed make an inappropriate complement to Zainab of his heart flipping for her?

Which exact one is the lie so that I can furnish you with evidence.

1. Let's assume that Zainab was not happy with her marriage, is the Job of a prophet not reconciliation of husband and wife?

2. If your younger brothers wife is not happy with him, will you advise her to divorce your brother so that you can marry her and make her happy?

3. If Mohammed commanded Zaid to take proper care of Zainab and make her happy at all cost, will he disobey the command?

honesttalk21:
Is your dislike for the closeness in time of this revelation to the event?

So sorry for your limiting the choice of Allah to be prompt or not.

How have these moral standards moved over the years?
Are there not reports of parents sleeping with their children's partners today?
Was this moral on leave when the Bible reports the daughters of Lot seducing their father? I don't have any similar story in Islam though.

Did the mortal standard of Allah also move with time?
Is it UNTRUE that Allah encouraged Mohammed to marry Zainab and Allah canceled adoption to FACILITATE the shameful deed?

If your younger brother divorced his wife, is it morally right for you to marry her?
Of this, your answer will be yes for Mohammed is your perfect example, isn't it?

The crime of Noah was drunkenness, it was his daughters that committed the shameless act with him. The Bible records the rights and wrong especially of those God had called with no favouritism as SIN is SIN regardless of who committed it. Unlike Allah who covers sin and encourages it, Yahweh doesn't do such. If I am to flip this on you, I will ask:
What is Allah's (or is it Jibril) mouth doing on the Fahjaha of Mary?
Unfortunately, as a Muslim, you don't even believe that the case of Noah and his daughters happened, so why use it as a supporting argument for your case. Did the Islamic prophet Noah have sex with his daughters according to Islam? Is he not supposed to be a Muslim like Mohammed? So, why is he morally upright and Mohammed is not?

honesttalk21:
On the place of worship your hatred of Islam and prophet Muhammad pbuh blinds you from seeing the continuity in Islamic tradition, emphasizing the importance of following the practices and traditions linked to the earlier prophets.

Can you find just one prophet who did this kind of despicable thing with their son's wife (adopted or not)
Can you find a single prophet of old who his followers can insinuate stealing?

honesttalk21:
Sunan Ibn Majah 1009 serves as a reminder of the importance of tradition and the continuity of worship practices in Islam. It highlights the revered status of Prophet Ibrahim and reflects a broader theological understanding of prayer, sacredness, and the continuation of prophetic guidance.

See how you want to brush aside the incriminating evidence against yourself

Sunan Ibn Majah 1009
It was narrated that Anas bin Malik told that ‘Umar said:
“I said: ‘O Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), why do you not take the Maqam of Ibrahim as a place of prayer?’ Then the following was revealed: ‘And take you (people) the Maqam of Ibrahim as a place of prayer.’” [2:125]


Is it UNTRUE that Qur'an 2:125 was revealed AFTER Umar said to Mohammed "why do you not take the Maqam of Ibrahim as a place of prayer?’"

When did Umar know the Qur'an even before it was revealed?

If you care for the truth, it means that Mohammed is aka Allah!


I honestly once again invite you to know the Messiah and receive from Him the GIFT of Eternal Life with God in Paradise: don't let the Al-Makr deceive you as he did to Iblis

Note:
People who are Deceived usually don't know until they are caught in the trap set for them
Just compare the characters of Jesus and Mohammed and you will see that Mohammed is the "Fake Messiah" unfortunately, it is him you follow!