₦airaland Forum

AntiChristian:
Christianity is a Judaism heresy with its own book and prophet just like Mormonism has its own book and prophet.

Many are roaming without sense!
And this one be Homo Sapiens o!

But Allah claimed to have revealed the same books!

What an Irony!

AntiChristian:
QUESTION 1
I find it hard believing a merciful, forgiving and loving God would crucify His beloved son for any reason! Why does the Christian God have to kill his beloved son to forgive sin? Is it that He couldn't forgive sins without shedding blood cos i hear what God cannot do does not exist!
What kind of God parameter is the death of the innocent?

QUESTION 2
Who Died on the Cross, Jesus God or Jesus Man?

QUESTION 3
As a Christian do you believe in three Gods or just one God? Expatiate?

QUESTION 4
Mention one Bible verse each that best proves Jesus to be God from the Old and new Testament?

QUESTION 5
Of what nature is Jesus, is he divine or human or humano-divine? Give verses to prove this.

QUESTION 6
Does God just forgive sins as we forgive those who sinned against us as in the lord's Prayer?

Unfortunately, until Islam understand why God required Animal Blood Sacrifice (of the religion of the Jews).

But because Islam copied Judaism and Christianity without comprehending why they do what they do: we have a mess!


Why did God tell the children of Israel to do animal sacrifice?

Why does Allah require you Muslims to do animal sacrifice every year?

Workch:
exactly, you make claim if believe in an unjustifiable deity and I say I don’t believe you until you prove it.
How’s that a belief?

All Animals truely LACK a belief
All Babies truely LACK a belief
All Inanimate objects LACK a belief

Can you see a trend?

Lacking a belief is a sign of INTELLECTUAL immaturity!

Are Atheists Intellectually Compromised?

Sorry sir!
You've been deceived with simple English Language by the same people who currently find it difficult to define who a woman is!

Signing OUT please!

Maynman:
But he still doesn’t know.
Those owo worshippers that was killed in the church, also had plans,worked hard,aspires for a future and had “faith”. But now they are Dead!

How does not KNOWING tomorrow means I shouldn’t work? Who knows Tomorrow?
Your logic doesn’t make sense. These are what you feed yourself lol

Faith is meaningless isn't it?

Faith is not just BELIEVING, it is TRUSTING in the INTEGRITY of a PERSON or SYSTEM.

Faith is NOT being BLESSED or being PROTECTED or anything positive or negative.

Faith is knowing that in LIFE or in DEATH, God has got you covered!

That is why disciples of Jesus could face death with joy!

You have learned some bad stuff while you were a Christian from your pastors: these are the things that made you frail!

Sorry!

I have to go: spent too much time on NL!
Cheers!!

Maynman:
You should first understand what you are looking for, so as not to search aimlessly.

Leave out your religion indoctrination and learn.
“A miracle is generally defined, according to the etymology of the word—it comes from the Greek thaumasion and the Latin miraculum—as that which causes wonder and astonishment, being extraordinary in itself and amazing or inexplicable by normal standards.”

Which Doctrine are you?

I'm looking for magicians that performs miraculous acts.

I've combed through Americans got Talent to know avail!
LOL!!

Maynman:
not my words
From common sense 14:3
The fool has said in his heart, There is Deity. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good.

I can also quote random books from UNKNOWN Authors.

Good!

Maynman:
It’s you that brought up that phrase. That’s not the discussion, nor the topic of this thread or what we’ve been discussing.

Please can you post the scientific evidence of what you said about effect before a cause and your claims.
Thank you.

You were the one who brought up the issue of Retrocausality and I have addressed it. Therefore, you should provide evidence as I am not contesting Retrocausality!

I've spoken only about infinite regress of cause and effect to you.

Maynman:
Are you confused?
I accused you of lying when you claimed i said faith means “ faith is mindless believing”.
How did “dna” matter enter?
Show me where I accused you of lying about DNA
Calm down Chrestian.

I did dna test for my unborn kids.
I was making an example when i talked about “DNA” the same way i made an example for restaurant, but your body too hot to read and comprehend
I Didn’t know we can ask personal questions

Read again. You indeed accused me of lying as all Christians do!

If You did a DNA test, it proves you don't Have Faith in the Integrity of your spouse.

Maynman:
You mean “compromised”?
We have people that weren’t told anything and they still died of parachute accidents.
Do you know how many parachute accidents happen yearly?
Be answering my questions too or we can just keep asking…

Good!
The parachute is not the important thing, the INTEGRITY of the parachute is !

If you packed your own parachute, you will be able to trust the integrity of the Parachute. If you didn't, anything can happen.

Trust in a Person, System or thing is a function of how much knowledge, experience AND relationship you've had with him.

Have you heard of Little Faith versus great faith?

I guess you should one in a while come to Sunday school! LOL!

Maynman:
Do you know what “big bang theory” means?

I don't know it. I've never even heard of it.
You tell me?

Workch:
You can’t preach Christ to me because even if god exist, there is still about 1 in 4000 chance that it’s your personal god.

The best is just to say “ I don’t know” and stop making many things that really do not make sense up.

Like I said:
It's not my objective to preach Christ to you!

Workch:
Atheism is not a belief, it’s a disbelief.

I don’t believe your god claims, that’s simply atheism.

The person who makes claims provides evidence and there is no evidence for god so I don’t believe it

Please clarify your definition
Is your Disbelief the same as
A Lack of Belief or or a refusal to believe?

Maynman:
Exactly, faith. He doesn’t KNOW.

But then he plans, he works hard, he aspires for a FUTURE!

He should have DONE NOTHING as you advocate since he doesn't know.

Wisdom expressed!

Workch:
Maybe, but it’s mere beliefs without evidence

What evidence do you want from the Uncaused First Cause of Everything?

What evidence do you want from a person who existed before the big bang?

What evidence do you want from One who is beyond the laws of physics?

What evidence do you want from one whose existence is not defined by space, matter and time.?

The big bang occured 13.8billion years ago when time, space and matter were simultaneously created.

I wonder the kind of evidence that will convince a bacteria in your toilet that you exist!?

Maynman:
I said YES, like 2/3 times now.
Can’t you comprehend this simple answer.
Why bring your religion into it bwahahahah
It’s a mere word!

A miracle is generally defined, according to the etymology of the word—it comes from the Greek thaumasion and the Latin miraculum—as that which causes wonder and astonishment, being extraordinary in itself and amazing or inexplicable by normal standards.

Magicians perform miracles?

I've been looking hard for Magicians who perform all over the internet !

LeHMaR:
Your argument holds no weight, it only makes sense when we're assuming religion isn't forced upon us all and we're all just neutral.. I don't see no hindu converting to Christianity.. So definitely if you're born hindu, you're not even part of our discussion.
Mathematically, 55% of the population are already damned.. And your logic only applies to the 15% that are athiest.
That alot of people going to hell for being born into the wrong family, and don't tell me about conversions. We both know that the rates are just not showing up on the chart.
You seem smart, and believe me when i say this i don't want you to become an athiest. I just ask that you religions folks don't demonize us, it only fuels our irritation and confirm our stance.. It's not like I'm disbelieving in a law like that of motion and thermodynamics, religion is not factual and if i go to hell for not believing in something no one can prove, then so be it.. You and I don't believe in dragons and unicorns , now imagine being looked at like the anti-chtist for this? E no pure nah

You think I hate or dislike Atheists?
No I don't . That is why I don't usually speak bible to Atheists: I appeal to their REASON!

What do you truely think I should do here?
I see people going on a dangerous road to perdition!
1. Should I mind my own business after all we aren't related?
2. Should I warn them with every reason I can muster?
3. Should I tackle some of them so hard that they get a broken leg that prevents them going into their certain doom?
Except I don't believe there is LIFE after our DEATH.

How can I be comfortable knowing that people are ACTIVELY going in the way of DEATH rather than LIFE?

Do you know that the people going through this road of partition
1. May see me as an enemy who does not want their good.!
2. May have good company and companions along the way that seem to know the way to assure them of safety!

About the majority of the World being Hindus, Zoroastrians, Muslims etc This is what Jesus said:

Luk 12:48:
"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For to whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."



I honestly do not believe it's the same Judgement for EVERYONE. The place called hell may have their Different Partitions!

I will leave you with these words

John 3:19:
"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."

There is a SYSTEM of this WORLD: it will get WORSE and not Better.

Love you Bro!
I appreciate your honesty!

Maynman:
Laugh at your ignorance, yahweh worshipper.
It just shows you’ve never done research about this before you ended up with “yahweh of Christians and jews” bwahahahah

Your religion thrives on ignorance

Not my words
Ps 14:1:
"A Psalm of David.
The fool has said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that does good."

GodsOwnMan:
Blue light is scattered more than the other colors because it travels as shorter, smaller waves is the explanation for why the sky is blue.

No need for word games. The sky is blue is an empirical fact and real. Unlike the faith that your palestinian god exist which may or may not be real.

Okay Sir!
The sky is BLUE according to you

GodsOwnMan:
Very good. Just as scientific knowledge does not support your claim that your palestinian god created the universe.

How?
Is is not of matter, time or space.

My scientific knowledge tells me that Something/Someone Mysterious and Indescribable beyond space, time, matter and laws of physics set off the ball of the universe rolling.

Science does not Prove who or what the Uncaused First Cause is because science limits itself to AFTER the big bang.

Maynman:
Are you confused?
I’m asking a question the same way you asked me a question, remember?
It was you that brought in “ is infinite regress of cause and effect scientifically or logically possible?”

So listen to your advice, and answer my questions

Are you taking all what science said as possible and not possible to be FACT, before we go on?

And do you also know an effect can occur before a cause? Is it logically and scientifically possible?

Science is fallible and it gets modified along with time. But before that time when better/more reliable knowledge is acquired , it is held as TRUTH!

Depending on your frame of reference, effect can occur before a cause. The choice of which event is the cause and which the effect is not absolute but is relative to the observer.

Even if such effects are possible, however, they may not be capable of producing effects different from those that would have resulted from normal causal relationships


Unfortunately, the discussion is not about Retrocausality, it is about the possibility of an infinite regress of CAUSE and EFFECT occuring.

I hope you also know that it will break the law of entropy if infinite regress of cause and effect is possible!

Over to you!

Maynman:
It’s not of your business, Chrestian. You already had “faith” that i did not do it, so good!
The examples you used said it, you are using examples of things i have no control or even knowledge about.

You accused me of lying about this.

I said:
You have not done DNA test for your children and you accused me of lying.

Meaning that if I deed I am lying you have done DNA test for your children!

Did you do DNA test for your children?

Maynman:
Parachute fails. Do you know how many people that die of parachute accident yearly?
They also had “faith” in it.

Of course.
Will you jump if you believe that your parachutes integrity is comprised?

Maynman:
So the tanakh lied?

Gen 1:1:
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

How did the Tanakh lie?

Heb 11:3:
"Through faith we understand that the universe were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

Maynman:
I wonder why you are lying, is that what Chrestians does?
How do you know I haven’t done the dna test?
Believers always believing..

Why do we need to assume what “faith” means, when we can just look up the origin of the word.

mid-13c., faith, feith, fei, fai "faithfulness to a trust or promise; loyalty to a person; honesty, truthfulness," from Anglo-French and Old French feid, foi "faith, belief, trust, confidence; pledge" (11c.), from Latin fides "trust, faith, confidence, reliance, credence, belief," from root of fidere "to trust,"from ...

Did you actually do a DNA test for your children?

Maynman:
Exactly, you have faith in things you are not sure of!

I did not define faith as such: check my post!

It is a TRUST in the integrity of a Personality or a System.

If You are not SURE of the Integrity of a Parachute, would you JUMP from a plane!?

Workch:
This argument doesn’t in anyway prove the Christian myths in the Bible

Of course, I am not Preaching Christ to you.
It's not my objective!

Maynman:
Yes, i Answered your question.
So listen to your advice, and answer my questions

Are you taking all what science said as possible and not possible to be FACT, before we go on?

And do you also know an effect can occur before a cause? Is it logically and scientifically possible?

I only respond to your queries, don't put words in my mouth

Wilgrea7:
When I said scientific, i meant something that was at least testable or observable. I'm not saying the conclusion you arrived at.. the one of the uncaused first cause.. isn't logical. It can be.

That's why i made reference to the Kalam cosmological argument. If something can exist without beginning to exist, the it can be likened to an uncaused first cause. I don't disagree with that.

But the fact that we have not encountered or verified the existence of such a thing/things .. is what bothers me

1. The fact that something is NOT testable is not a proof that it doesn't exist. It may be the limitation of your scientific instrument.
Imagine someone trying to measure the weight of a bacteria with bathroom scale and then concluding that since he can't weigh anything bacterias don't exist
2. If God is physically measurable, it means that He is subject to the laws of physics and he is made up of Matter. This mean that such cannot be the creator of matter and the laws that govern matter interaction.
3. Logic is very simple
If A>B (Postulate 1)
AND
If B>C (Postulate 2)
THEN
C>A (Conclusion)

The conclusion can only be wrong if either of the two postulates are wrong.
From the knowledge, we have are the postulates surrounding infinite regress false?

Until they are PROVEN FALSE, the CONCLUSION is TRUE

Wilgrea7:
Coming to the issue of logic.. I'm always cautious because a lot of things can sound logical, until you find out the real story behind them.

It was a completely logical stance at a certain time, that the sun revolved around the earth. Afterall, who wouldn't think so when you see the sun rising in the east and setting in the west? But we know better today.

I'm not denying your argument on the grounds of logic. That, i would gladly give you. But i don't want to make a mistake of going with something that sounds logical based on my limited knowledge.

The sun revolving around the earth was a completely logical thing based on our knowledge back then. But as our knowledge grew, the once logical thing didn't really make as much sense anymore.

But from the best information you have at hand, are the postulates WRONG?

If they are not wrong, why the exertion of these great force to REJECT that which CORRECT

Wilgrea7:
You're a theist who actually cares to look at science. That's something i respect. You once told me about Arvin Ash on YouTube.

Do you know about PBS spacetime? Similar to Arvin.. but more complex and more indepth.. i would suggest going through their videos on the big bang.

The reason i brought them up, is because they've shown me how little we actually know about the nature of the big bang.

All things regarding cause and effect trace themselves back to the big bang.. because that's the origin of all matter as we know it.

Time, Space, Matter AND all the laws of Physics occured simultaneously at/after big bang.
You know the implication!?

It means that however we try Scientifically, we cannot probe beyond (before) the big bang.

The Uncaused First Cause must of course be beyond (before/ the big bang) meaning that He cannot be subject either to the laws of physics nor be of material/matter origin.

The Uncaused First Cause is an ENIGMA!

Wilgrea7:
My issue with the big bang is how little we know about it. There are many theories that try to explain why and how it happened. Inflation theory is one.. but it's not the only theory trying to explain it. There is still so much we don't know about the origin of the universe, for us to say that it was caused by a first cause, or unmoved mover.

Going by our current knowledge.. the idea of an uncaused first cause makes sense. But that knowledge is incredibly limited. That's my point.

That being said, I'm willing to accept the conclusion of an uncaused first cause for the sake of this argument

The question is :
Is it possible to probe beyond time t=o?

If Gravitational Singularity is eternal, then it must be a CONSTANT! If it is a constant, why did it suddenly expand 13.8 billion years ago.

The Uncaused First Cause CANNOT be "fully known" UNLESS He reveals Himself to Humans.
Unfortunately, there is also an opposing force that make a person irresponsible to the purpose for which he was created!

Maynman:
You lack knowledge of what you are spewing.
There’s nothing like “Yahweh of Christians and jews”
Jews religion is called Judaism, and Judaism comes from yahwism.
Christianity and Islam both worship Abrahamaic gods.
Who is the father of Judaism?
When your “jesus” was alive as a jew he worshipped the judaist god!

There are thousands of deities that does that, have you read greek mythology, or where do you think “hades” come from?

Your religion thrives on ignorance

I laugh at you!

Maynman:
Exactly, he doesn’t KNOW if he’ll be alive by next week, so he uses FAITH

He plans even for the next 20 years based on FAITH!

Maynman:
Yes.

Help yourself and free yourself from indoctrination.
“Miracle” is simply a word, it existed before your religion was created.

Learn.
A miracle is generally defined, according to the etymology of the word—it comes from the Greek thaumasion and the Latin miraculum—as that which causes wonder and astonishment, being extraordinary in itself and amazing or inexplicable by normal standards.

The root word for magic (Greek: mageia; Latin: magia) derives from the Greek term magoi, which refers to a Median tribe in Persia and their religion, Zoroastrianism.


magus, plural Magi, member of an ancient Persian clan specializing in cultic activities. The name is the Latinized form of magoi (e.g., in Herodotus 1:101), the ancient Greek transliteration of the Iranian original. From it the word magic is derived.

Your religion thrives on ignorance

That's why I asked you a simple question:

Does magician perform miracles?

Maynman:
Orunmila is the first child of olorun.
It was obatala that created humans and earth in yoruba mythology
Keep laughing in ignorance

I hear you!
LOL!

Maynman:
Do you believe in the big bang theory?

Of course!
I only believe in addition that God initiated what we scientists call the Big bang effect/inflation of the Universe!

Maynman:
No.
Theism will be the acceptance of dieties.!
And take note of “believe”. When a theist goes further to “worship” these deities what does it mean?

Okay

If
-Theism is NOT the acknowledgement of Deities!
Then
-Atheism is NOT the rejection of Deities!

Can you please redefine what these words mean?

Maynman:
Who said “faith is mindless believing” you are a LIAR.
Faith is base on probability and your points says it.

I can be sure that I fathered my kids with a DNA test.
So many generals has resigned in russia.
Everyone travels on a plane with faith, but they don’t KNOW!
I eat in restaurants but I don’t KNOW that it’s poisoned or not.
So many people has gone to a restaurant that the food was poisoned, they also had “faith”
People in plane crash also had “faith”

Your logic is cheap

I wonder where you got the phrase mindless believing and this took off in tangent!

I have explained what FAITH is:
A TRUST in the Integrity of a Personality or a System!

If you have any other definition, spill it out.

Unfortunately, you have not done the DNA test!

When a person completely KNOWs, he doesn't need FAITH .
Even the scripture attest that we know only in PART as NO man has ever seen God

I think I've explained it clear enough here!

TenQ:
Atheism is a belief!

A belief is a position a person takes when he has sufficient but incomplete information to truly know!

I know that 2+4 is SIX
I don't have to believe that 2+4 is six because I have a complete information of how 2+4 is six. I will be correct 100% of the time for this position!


A belief is based on a probability howbeit high but not 100%

Does an atheist truly KNOW that the Creator doesn't exist OR he has come to a position he considers as reasonable probability to take a position?