₦airaland Forum

elampiro:
It's very clear it's centre midfield. BRING THE DATE OF THAT INTERVIEW LETS SEE WHERE ROONEY WAS PLAYING.

I posted the link. He's talking about how SAF used him mostly behind RVP during that season because that's where he featured mostly during that season.

I don't need any article to confirm that to me. Whoscored has already confirmed what i know.

elampiro:
I am telling you once there is a player behind the striker. The formation is not 4-4-2.

SAF played Rooney in hole in 4-4-1-1, 4-2-3-1 and 4-5-1.



Even Association football has it that there can be a hole in 4-4-2 if the second striker is involved in build up play and defensive duty.

Once a striker drops behind, it is no longer 4 4 2 flat, it has become 4 4 1 1.

I am not disputing the fact that SAF played that system sometimes. He only played such system once in a while.

Maybe you should tell me the number of times SAF played such system in a season.

My own contention is that SAF played mainly 4 4 2 flat where there is no room for a number 10.

elampiro:
Here they were talking about Rooney playing in central midfield, not in the hole.

Did you read him mentioned Center there?

The issue was being played in the midfield rather than central forward. You yourself said he has been playing as an attacking midfielder which is a midfield position. Is that not different from center forward role?

elampiro:
Now we are getting somewhere. Ayagayagayagyo hey Ayagayagayagayo.

You guys had earlier said support striker. Pls read below. The coaches are not novice. When a player is playing behind a striker, his goal scoring duty is reduced for other functions.



..............................
Association football.

Second striker
The second striker (withdrawn striker or support striker) (historically called inside-left and inside-right, or inside forward) has a long history in the game, but the terminology to describe them has varied over the years. Originally such players were termed inside forwards. More recently, the preferred terms have been withdrawn striker, second striker, deep-lying forward, or support striker, and are often referred to as playing "in the hole" (i.e. the space between the midfield and the defence of the opposing team). Second strikers tend not to be as tall or as physically imposing as a centre forward.[52] They are required to be more "nippy", quick, mobile, and skillful, helping to create goals and scoring opportunities for centre forwards, utilising spaces created in the opposition's defence to provide passes to the strikers, picking up loose balls around the area, or attempting to dribble with the ball and score themselves.[52]

The position was initially developed by the famous Hungary national team of the late 1940s and mid-1950s led by Ferenc Puskás. Later, it was popularised in Italian football as the trequartista ("three-quarters" or fantasista, the advanced playmaker who plays neither in midfield nor as a forward, but effectively pulls the strings for his team's attack, and serves as an assist provider.[53] Many players in this position can play in a free role, as an attacking midfielder or sometimes on the wing. The position has also been known as the number 10 role, as many players who played in this position wore the number 10 jersey.

I have said it that you don't know football formations or you don't understand it. The one they are talking about here is not flat 4 4 2 but a variation of it which is 4 4 1 1.

elampiro:
This is the most illogical post I have read this year.

1. There is no behind the striker in a 4-4-2. They play side by side. United played 4-4-1-1 and 4-5-1. Then 4-3-3 in difficult away games.

2. SAF said the way Ashley Young was deployed at Villa. Young played in the hole at Villa in a 4-2-3-1 and 4-5-1.

3. The space behind the striker is the hole.

You are the only one being illogical. How can you say there is a number 10 position in 442 flat formation? Do you even know formations at all? I don't even need SAF to tell me that there is no "hole" in 442.

These other formations you listed, how often did SAF use them? 442 flat formation was the most used formation by SAF during his era.

Let's not also forget that was the reason he wanted to leave Man Utd at the end of 2012/13 season.

Berbatov was bought as a striker in 2008. After Ronaldo and Tevez left in 2009, he was being paired with Rooney upfront and we had no problem with Rooney's position in the team other than that he said Man Utd weren't ambitious enough for him. So he said that he wanted to leave Utd.

SAF bought RVP in 2012. Rooney was immediately relegated to the midfield to play as our number 10 because SAF had adopted 4 2 3 1 system in the league. This placed RVP as our lone striker in the system. In that season, Rooney rarely played in the striking positions. This sparked off a rift between him and SAF where he said he won't play in the midfield.

Question now is that if he has been playing in the midfield as a number 10 all through his career as a Man Utd player, why then is it that time that he decided to reject such position?

Rooney's account is that, after nearly a decade at the club, he felt he had done enough to warrant a place in "my position", namely as centre-forward, and was fed up of being told to help out in midfield. "Everyone at the club knew where I wanted to play and I think that's why I was disappointed. I got told to play in midfield and I didn't want to. I just think there had to come a point when, for my own career, I had to be a bit selfish really."

This goes back to last spring, not long after he had been left out of United's starting XI to face Real Madrid in the second leg of their Champions League quarter-final. "I actually felt when I played in midfield I did OK, but I didn't want to play there. I've had no problem in the past playing out of position. But I felt I deserved the right to play in my position and that wasn't happening.

"I think, naturally, I was a bit disappointed and maybe that affected some of the games I played. I know myself that last year wasn't my best season but there were times when I was playing in different positions. I didn't feel I got a consistent run of games up front. Sometimes when you're not playing in one position all the time it's difficult to adapt."

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/oct/09/wayne-rooney-reasons-leave-manchester-united

That's from a player whom elampiro said has played as a number 10/midfielder all through his Man Utd career.

coogar:
chelsea played 4-3-3 or at best 4-2-3-1 when they signed essien in 05/06. drogba always functioned as a lone striker. the formation changed slightly when they signed shevchenko in 06/07 to 4-1-2-1-2(diamond 4-4-2) but mourinho quickly binned sheva and went back to his 4-2-3-1.

in all this time, SAF was still stuck to his 4-4-2. carlos queiroz convinced fergie to dump the formation in europe & be more conservative in his approach. even then, against the smaller sides in the EPL, 4-4-2 was our default formation.

Exactly!

elampiro:
Why did Drogba not even measure up?

Drogba didn't measure up because he is an out and out striker and Chelsea rarely adopt a 442 flat system. He doesn't share the burden of scoring with any other striker in the system they play.

elampiro:
There is no much difference between a support striker and a number 10. Association Football made this clear. Some look at the distance they play from each other. Rooney is usually very far from the man ufront. Then SAF said BEHIND THE STRIKER. Saf surely knows the difference. Rooney also said BEHIND THE STRIKER. Note: They didnt say co-strikers.

Behind the striker is the hole.

If someone is playing in the "Hole", he must be an attacking midfielder and that is usually a number 10. There is no room for a number 10 in 442 formation which was the most used system by SAF during his reign.

This has also been confirmed by the periods covered by whoscored.

elampiro:
I will go look for it tomorrow. But SAF above said BEHIND THE STRIKER. That is the hole.

Secondly, why did Rooney begged to be played as a striker just before 2009/10 season kicked off?

It is the formation that will determine whether someone is in the hole or not. There is nothing like "Hole" in 442 flat formation.

That was because he was being moved about in the forward position when Tevez and Ronaldo were still around.

elampiro:
This stat here tells me Rooney was a number 10 in major part of his career. I know he also played as a winger, striker and central midfield. He played most part of his first season as a winger.

This is a Farce. It doesn't say anything.

If Thiery Henry had had the same playing time as Rooney, he would've scored more assists than Rooney. What kind of logic is this?

elampiro:
If you play behind a striker you are in the 'hole'. An AM.

In 4-4-2 the two strikers are on same line or virtually on same line always.

So what formation was played for Rooney to have played behind the striker?

4 4 2 formation doesn't necessarily means they have to be on the same level. They may be slightly adjacent to each other.

When Rooney is pushed to the striking position in this formation, it is either he leads or he supports. Mostly throughout his career in this system he acts as a support striker. The two strikers shares the responsibility of scoring when the opportunity comes depending on their positioning.

elampiro:
This is not true, as of August 2009 before the league kicked off, Gary Neville said Rooney's best position is behind a striker.

In what formation? Put what GN said in proper perspective. Is it in 442?

coogar:
rooney has always played as a striker. it's his lack of positional discipline that had him dropping deep to search for the ball. capello, sven-goran eriksson & ferguson always complained then that rooney gets too much attracted to the ball.

against the weaker teams(majority of the league games) in the EPL, we played a flat 4-4-2. in europe, the objective is not to concede so we often went with 4-5-1/4-3-3. using number-10 angle to excuse rooney's poor goal return is ridiculous.

Rooney has always been played majorly as a striker in the 442 formation used mostly during Fergie's era. It is only when we are playing a big team in the league and most especially in Europe that he changes his formation when he wants to make it difficult for opponents to beat us.

It was after he bought RVP in 2013/14 that he dropped Rooney to play in the midfield so as to be able to accommodate him in the team with RVP.

coogar:
rooney was a striker....
it's his lack of goal scoring that made the media brand him a number-10. which number-10, i ask? fergie used 4-4-2 throughout in that era - fergie was the last manager to abandon 4-4-2 in the premier league. it wasn't until 09/10 that fergie changed his formation in the league & that was after ronaldo left.

saying rooney was a number-10 in that era would be the same as saying yorke or andy cole was a number-10 in 1999. rooney was a striker like saha, ruud, bellion & solksjaer in his first 4-5 seasons. his fans only use this excuse because they know he doesn't measure up to the elite strikers in europe.

this was rooney's interview in 2008....


Q: How do you feel you’re developing as a striker – would you liken yourself to any of the aforementioned front men?

rooney:
Not really. I think it’s difficult for you to compare yourself to someone else, but I certainly hope I can become as good as them.

I’ve definitely changed the way I play this season in the fact that I’ve played further up front rather than in behind a main striker; that’s something Carlos has done.

I’d probably say I’ve enjoyed that role more as you seem to get more chances and hopefully that means I’ll end up with more goals.

I don`t know how Rooney will be a number 10 when SAF majorly played 442 flat formation but not 4411 or 442 diamond in the league.

SAF only changed his system after he bought RVP to be able to accomodate both Rooney and RVP in the team.

How somebody will be saying Rooney played as a number 10 throughout his Man Utd career except for one season still baffles me.

Congrats to Andreas Pereira for winning the U21s Player of The Year Award.

Congrats to David De Gea for winning the Players' Player of The Year Award.

Nothing is done yet on De Gea as being speculated in Spain. What is being offered is even not up to what we are offering him. This is what Balague is saying

www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9855288/david-de-gea-is-still-deciding-on-whether-to-leave-manchester-united-for-real-madrid

Manchester United XI vs Arsenal: De Gea; Valencia, Jones, Smalling, Rojo; Mata, Blind, Herrera, Young, Fellaini; Falcao

MUFC Subs: Valdes, Blackett, McNair, Di Maria, Januzaj, van Persie, Wilson

Crystal Palace giving Gerrard a bad send off result.

Depay just scored a 30 yard free kick making him the player with most goals (7 goals) from free kicks in Europe's top 6 leagues this season.

Van Persie has flu while Di Maria got injured in training on Wednesday.

No Van Persie, no Di Maria.

United XI vs Palace: De Gea, Valencia, Jones, Smalling, Shaw, Blind, Herrera, Mata, Fellaini, Young, Rooney

United subs: Valdes, Evans, McNair, Pereira, Januzaj, Falcao, Wilson.

AdeLaNa1:
Thats been yhe problem sll season. LVG has never had a plan B this season. He keeps on using the same tactics even when its so obvious the opposing team know wat we re goin to do, and wen we re goin to do it. We've been playing cross and nod to Fellaini since as far back as November and today was the same story as usual. He played Fellaini up front and dat one dint even connect wit a single cross all the while being offside like four or five times

He should've moved Fellaini to mata's position and move Mata to play to the right of Rooney. We can get goals by instructing Young to be putting crosses to the back post for Fellaini or any of the through passes from Mata which he is good at.

By this, Rooney, RVP and Fellaini could've scored. He got it all wrong by withdrawing RVP and moving Fellaini upfront. Only my opinion.

AdeLaNa1:
I knew we was gon lose dis match afta watching the 1st half. All West Brom needed was to score early in the 2nd half and park d damn bus. From winning 6 games in a row to losing 3 in a row. Once again LVG gets it all wrong with his tactics, line up & substitutions

The second half tactics was totally wrong. Withdrawing RVP to play Rooney in the midfield and pushing Fellaini up top was wrong. Too many sideways passing with no defence splitting passes. Just too predictive for team packing the bus.

Nairalandinfo:
"@SkyNews: Rio Ferdinand's wife Rebecca has died after a short battle with cancer

Good night Rebecca. RIP

Happy 40th Birthday to LEGEND David Beckham.

Kemizee:
I care less if Bale comes to Man united or not.D style we play wnt help him and besides Madrid will demand for stupid fees which he isn't worth in d first place

I`ll rather go for Depay and still use the excess money to buy two other players.

We need to conclude our transfers early enough. If possible, before the transfer windows open.

chrisley024:
Shaw, Evans, are injured, and Carrick are ruled out of 2moro's game.

Rooney, RvP and Jones are fit.



This Shaw na bad market o!

What of Rojo? Is he fit?

Nothing we'll not hear or read from transfer rumours.

Rooney, Mata and Herrera being offered to Barcelona.

Comparing the exit of Ravel Morrison who had disciplinary issues with the club to that of Paul Pogba who left plainly because he wasn't played when the opportunity came for him to be played is not the same.