₦airaland Forum

@littleleb
He could not be a prophet to you coz you don't belief in him.

and do you really believe in JESUS?

plz, let there be order in the house, i only want to hear of testimonies not criticizing one religion, do not turn this post to a violent one, i am talking to babs and others here involved. all i want is YES there is with examples and NO there is none. But if you want to criticize the christians, well, i am sorry to tell you, MIRACLES ARE TRUE, though not all are true, but THEY ARE REAL, and also for the poster of this:

I will tackle you on one point, if raising the dead has been ordained by God almighty to be performed by the present day churches, why cant they place thier meeting point in mortuary? At least, there are many unknown deaths everyday?

A good question, Jesus did not heal all the sick in his time, he did not raise all the dead in his time, he did not make all the blind to see, and all those who recieved miracles were people who had faith in him to heal them, not only believe, so the miracles you see today are real, i have seen many and are still, have you seen where a shortened leg, became equal to the other, can magical powers do that?, every miracle Jesus did was for a purpose, and if you say why are not those dying be raised back to life, then nature will not be complete, cos it is a must, we shall all die, those who were raised were raised back for purpose, did you not hear about a pastor who was raised back in one of Reihard bonnke's crusade read it here : http://www.geocities.com/discoverchurch/daniel.htm, are you telling me that, that is a fluke, the young man is hale and healthy,if you want the full story i shall post it, so do not give me that antagonizing talk, give me the answer i requested.

babs, remove the islamic glasses first, and you will see how that verse is related, cos you really need the illumination of the holy spirit to understand,
"Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me." -- Isaiah 48:16

probably if the islamic glasses did not let you see that well. slave. chaiiiiiiiiiiii, olorun o ni se mi leru ooooooooooooooo

Babs come to think of it, if at all ishmeal was 17yrs, how old was aisha when she was deflowered?

where is babs, short of words or still adamant like his forefather.

Kunle, you have always acted like a loser from the very start of this post, you give out pious post, and you know like i said in my last post, i was disguisted, so i left the post, those it will minister to, it will. It is my sincere prayer for you that God open your eyes to see and know what tithe means, not what you feel or claim it is. ok

@ pilgrim
God is faithful, i never knew someone would really go on ahead, cos i tried all i could but you know whosoever God will change, he will change and whosoever he will destroy, will never change, for example is Pharaoh. God bless you, keep up the good work, i will try to compliment them. well done

Kunle, I see, you are fooloing your self, and no one else, i did not reply your post cos feel nausiated when i read your post. it make me feel like vommiting, well thank God for people like ud4u, God cannot be mocked and whatsoever a man soweth, that he shall reap, also the bible says lay up your treasure where no moth or thief can get to it. You need to pray for better understanding of the bible and not carnally give it an interpretation, the verses you quoted in hebrews do not condemn tithing. so you are yet to answered my question. Mr. Kunle

if you choose to tithe purely out of free wil then you are in order but if you are tithing based on law then you are in grave danger of being cut off from christ.

So says Kunle's Bible.

Kunle, I see, you are fooloing your self, and no one else, i did not reply your post cos feel nausiated when i read your post. it make me feel like vommiting, well thank God for people like ud4u, God cannot be mocked and whatsoever a man soweth, that he shall reap, also the bible says lay up your treasure where no moth or thief can get to it. You need to pray for better understanding of the bible and not carnally give it an interpretation, the verses you quoted in hebrews do not condemn tithing. so you are yet to answered my question. Mr. Kunle

if you choose to tithe purely out of free wil then you are in order but if you are tithing based on law then you are in grave danger of being cut off from christ.

So says Kunle's Bible.

That is one view which needs detail. Probably we need to ask osama. Why should America place a check on every country economy and war weapons?

In other words, you are commending osama for a job well done, was that the first time America would place a check on which ever country they wish, or are you not aware they are the current world power? well, if Iraq or Afghanistan was in the same position as US today, they will do worse than that, America is the leader of the free world and as a leader, they protect and sanction which ever country is in need of it. so that is not an excuse and not the answer to my question. mr.blabs

sorry babs.

Well, I mean tetimonies like rasing the dead, making the blind see, making the lame work, like a AIDS patience after the jumat service, going back to hospital and later told it is negative, and so many more like we do have in Christiandom. plz lets be discrete here, i am just a curious person who want to know.

from ur answers,

it shows u dont no the bible enough.

You know it better, isn't it, you COWARD, babs had given you back your confidence, teach me how to read the bible.

Well, since u are un able to expalin the errors in ur own book, then stop spending time on creating unnecessary arguement here and instead go learn abt ur bible.

You need to take time to read the post once again and see if i answered or not, and like i wrote, THE BIBLE HAS NO ERROR, IT IS INFALLABLE. your points hold not water. ok, go to your quran and hadith read more on the evil acts of muhammad that you are blinded to. go see for your self. JESUS I LORD AND WILL ALWAYS BE LORD.

@poster
Davidylan and Neotic both fear that if they take a wrong step, they may backslide, thus missing their salvation. They have admitted this on a separate thread . But the bible says anyone who backslides is not really a true Christians. Given that Davidylan and Neotic know that they are at risk of backsliding, they CANNOT be true Christians.
So these self-professed Christians are simply fly-by-night hypocites.

your opinion, it is you that is a good Xtian, i wonder what atheism has turn you into, an ungrateful and obstinate human who has no hope and preview of what comes after life. oh what a pity, an atheist telling a christian he is not a good Xtian, rubbish. what do you know about Xtianity, except to ridicle them and tell them there is no God. go and tell that to your dogs.

@kunleoshob
Kunle i asked first, so give me the answer is asked thee, probably your teacher taught you to use question to answer question, or you do not know what to write. ok.

To all viewers
Well , i do not force people to take or accept my views, but then you can not force me to accept your views too, you have the right to your views but i am blessed when i bless my pastor, but there is one thing i know, The Foundation of the Lord standeth sure and the Lord knows those who are his. Good luck

@bilms
This is a religion discussion that need understanding, we cant make people understand by force, i am tired of trying to expalin lies.

some1 will for political reason do something but some other people will blame it on his religion. not because they dont no, but because they always look for way to attack the other religion.

Hmmmmm, you are really tired, cos you have not been active in religious forum, do need to answer my question before we proceed, then we would know what is political in destroying millions of people. was osama jeolous of the bouyant economy, or their supremacy or what was he jeolous of, you need to tell me what is politicking in that. but first answer my questions.

AS for littleb

its good to make oneself outspoken, but it bad to be outspoken on the wrong subject/side.


@babs
this question is for you, do not hide now, or noncahlant about it.

@huxley
Of course, he was talking to me, idiot.

You would never stop being a fool,

@Horus

Your creators are High angelic beings name En.Lil and mother Nin.Ti they are the ones in the bible where it says "WE created them in our image and after our likeness", meaning that there were more than one god doing this creating ,Genisis 1;26. The bible will teach that there is only one god; the real truth is that there was more than one god. It reads in Exodus20:3" Thou shall have no other GODS before me". This statement alone admits that there are other gods that exists. These Neteru or Gods are of a much higher rank than we mortals are. The All encompasses everything, which includes all the many galaxies and star constellations as well. We live in the 18th galaxy called the Milky Way. There are billions of other galaxies out there that are now being discovered by scientist today.

Why did you use YOUR CREATORS. I have one creator who is GOd Most High, and since you know there are some otehr higher beings, they may be your god. Since you are an atheisit, it is useless telling who the other gods are, since you do not believe there is God, is the Devil you will believe exist?

Now tell me how many people bring their agriculural produce to church nowadays, tell me how many people give farm produce as offering in church, hey, do not be a fool, in my last post: I never said Tithe was Money, you have only termed it and I will agree with you on one aspect. Why?
Cos you tend not to understand it, and I will expalin it to you.
The Word Income is what ever you get or derive from the work you do. And during the time of the Israelites,their major occupation was Farming or shepard and they never engaged in external business transaction, and with that they deal in Farm produce, which is why the Food or Farm produce was used to address them on how to give their tithe. And nowadays, we have differ occupations and all the end result is what? Money, even farmers, they sell their farm produce to get what? Money, so if you say tithe is money, I agree cos money can buy anything, Also did your thinking faculty tell you that Abraham's Spoils were Food
Where in this post did i write that money was not in circulation, if need glassses it does not cost much, you can get one, cos your eyes decieves you, if you had notice i said they never involved in EXTERNAL BUSINESS TRANSACTION, for your better view.once again, answer my question. did your thinking faculty tell you that Abraham's Spoils were Food? do not try to ignore my question again.ok

@ Kunleoshob
Your mis-interpretation and twisting of deut 26:12-14 is so appalling that i feel nauseated already. It beats my imagination how people are able to twist scripture like this, is there a school that they teach you this skills

Well, i think thats your opinion, cos you were not the one that asked me the question, and you know we are different with different opinions, different ways of seeing things and assimilative methods, But could also answer the question rather that saying rubbish to me or trying to cover up your lies by changing topic.

To answer your other question, do you know the difference betweeen scripture and the bible? and do you know that your bible is a compilation of 66 books chosen and determined by the catholic church?( this is a historical fact and NOT subject to debate). You certainly don't know much about the bible but i would live you with what God as to say about scriptures in the book of Jeremiah, you might learn a thing or two there.

Jeremiah 8:8-10:

8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise because we have the word of the Lord,”
when your teachers have twisted it by writing lies?
9 These wise teachers will fall
into the trap of their own foolishness,
for they have rejected the word of the Lord.
Are they so wise after all?
10 I will give their wives to others
and their farms to strangers.
From the least to the greatest,
their lives are ruled by greed.
Yes, even my prophets and priests are like that.
They are all frauds.

You suprised me, to hear you that you are a christian You a disgrace to the christiandom. The Catholics compiled and determined the bible, it is disgusting and a foothold by the muslims to capitalize on.
The earliest indications of the Old Testament canon come from the time of Ezra and Nehemiah and suggest that the process had begun during the Babylonian captivity (605-535 BC) with the Torah (the 1st 5 Books of the Bible). But the process was probably not complete until sometime in the 2nd Century BC. Deciding which books were to be included was done by senior priests based on general agreement that each book was authentic (written by the person identified as its author) and divinely inspired.

The New Testament had pretty much come together by 150AD but there continued to be discussion about a few books until about 400 AD. It was not officially canonized until the Council of Trent in the 1500’s. There were three basic criteria for inclusion.

1. Were the authors either eyewitnesses to the events they wrote about or at least directly taught about them by the Apostles?
2. Was each book’s teachings consistent with church practice and tradition?
3. Was each book already in general use by the church, and accepted as the Divine Word of God?

In both Old and New testaments, the books included had to be generally viewed as the work of divinely inspired writers who faithfully converted God’s Word into written form. (2 Peter 1:20-21).
Do any of these involve the Catholic or what ever you claimed determined the bible,
You could as well as said the catholic wrote the bible, cos there is a big relationship between compiling and determining a book as trustworthy as the bible. From what you have posted you are telling me that even the bible is not God's word. which contradicts the bible Psalm 12:6 [color=#006600]"The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in the furnance of earth, purified seven times.", 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,, ", and since it was compiled and determined by the catholics, then it is not inspired by God. is that not what you are trying to say, maybe your bible was compiled by the catholics, but not mine. Well, Jesus said itall, many shall come in my name but by their fruit, ye shall know them. You have proven to me, and by your post, i now know who the real Kunleoshob is.[/color]

Evidently a very glaring example of twisted scripture in mordern times is that of tithes which is totally different from the biblical tithes and the reason is same as given in the above passage greed resulting in fraud.

Give me such examples with a specific verse telling where we should not pay tithe, cos i gave and analyse what it meant with biblical backup. give me yours.

@~Lady~
Are people relying on the OT when it suits them? Because generally the consensus amongst certain christians is that the OT laws were done with.

I wonder o, Jesus did not abolish the Law, he only fulfilled it.

@Horus
Tithes and tithing is a scam. Jesus never took from his congregation. He never passed around a basket or tray to receive pledges and donations at the end of each sermon. He never asked for a payment. Nor did he ever tell his disciples to accept money for their assistance as found in Matthew 10:8-10:
“Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.”

Go and read the rest of your bible, check out Matt 23:23, Yes he never took from his congregation, did he condemn it also. Jesus do not need to take cos he is all-sufficient.
Tithe is not payment for sevices rendered by your pastor, it a way of appreciating.
Matt 10:8-10 was not refering to tithe, do you ever think that all that was taken from them would be needed, the shoes, the coat, staff and others. of course the needed all, but Jesus only wanted them to know that working for God is not rosy, it requires your full attention, you should not be distracted by what to eat, what to wear and others, and that to show that He is a great Provider, but he will use someone. those he will use are the people they preached to, who else would cater for them.

@babs

1. Who was the father of Uzziah?

Joram (Matthew 1:
Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1)

I think you have a big problem. Just as the Hebrew bat (daughter) can be used to denote a more distant descendant, so can the Hebrew ben (son). Jesus is referred to in Matthew 1:1 as the son of David, the son of Abraham. Both the genealogies trace Jesus' ancestry through both these men, illustrating the usage of 'son'. Although no Hebrew manuscripts of Matthew's gospel are extant today, it is clear that he was a Jew writing from a Hebrew perspective and therefore completely at home with the Hebrew concept of son ship.

With this in mind, it can easily be shown that Amaziah was the immediate father of Uzziah (also called Azariah). Joram/Jehoram, on the other hand, was Uzziah's great-great-grandfather and a direct ascendant. The line goes Joram/Jehoram - Ahaziah - Joash - Amaziah - Azariah/Uzziah (2 Chronicles 21:4-26:1).

Matthew's telescoping of Joseph's genealogy is quite acceptable, as his purpose is simply to show the route of descent. He comments in 1:17 that there were three sets of fourteen generations. This reveals his fondness for numbers and links in directly with the designation of Jesus as the son of David. In the Hebrew language, each letter is given a value. The total value of the name David is fourteen and this is probably the reason why Matthew only records fourteen generations in each section, to underline Jesus' position as the son of David.


2. How many fighting men were found in Judah?

Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

Here you misunderstood the historical context or misunderstood the author's intent. There are a number of ways to understand not only this problem but the next challenge as well, since they both refer to the same passages and to the same census.

It is possible that the differences between the two accounts are related to the unofficial and incomplete nature of the census (which will be discussed later), or that the book of Samuel presents rounded numbers, particularly for Judah.

The more likely answer, however, is that one census includes categories of men that the other excludes. It is quite conceivable that the 1 Chronicles 21:5 figure included all the available men of fighting age, whether battle-seasoned or not, whereas the 2 Samuel 24:9 account is speaking only of those who were ready for battle. Joab's report in 2 Samuel 24 uses the word 'is hayil, which is translated as "mighty men", or battle-seasoned troops, and refers to them numbering 800,000 veterans. It is reasonable that there were an additional 300,000 men of military age kept in the reserves, but not yet involved in field combat. The two groups would therefore make up the 1,100,000 men in the 1 Chronicles 21 account which does not employ the Hebrew term 'is hayil to describe them.

3. Did Jesus bear his own cross?

Yes (John 19:17)
No (Matthew 27:31-32)

hmmmmm, you have what i call Grammatical dysfunction, Each writer focuses on a different part of the events, those events that help tell the story to the people to whom they are writing. Each gives different details. They are not contradicting each other, they are just pointing out different facts. Thus John tells us that Jesus started out bearing his cross while Matthew, Mark, and Luke mention that somewhere along the way they forced a man named Simon to carry the cross for him. Jesus did carry the cross untill He was unable to carry it and had fallen, they then grabbed Simon, from Cyrene, and forced him to help carry the cross. You believe what you want to believe. It is a shame that you are only reading the Bible to find mistakes and to mock those of us with faith.

4. Did Jesus die before the curtain of the temple was torn?

Yes (Matthew 27:50-51; Mark lS:37-38)
No. After the curtain was torn, then Jesus crying with a loud voice, said, Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit! And having said this he breathed his last (Luke 23:45-46)

After reading the three passages Matthew 27:50-51, Mark 15:37-38 and Luke 23:45-46, it is not clear where the apparent contradictions are that you hava pointed out. All three passages point to the fact that at the time of Jesus' death the curtain in the temple was torn. It does not stand to reason that because both Matthew and Mark mention the event of Christ's death before mentioning the curtain tearing, while Luke mentions it in reverse order, that they are therefore in contradiction, as Matthew states that the two events happened, 'At that moment', and the other two passages nowhere deny this.

They all agree that these two events happened simultaneously for a very good reason; for the curtain was there as a barrier between God and man. Its destruction coincides with the death of the Messiah, thereby allowing man the opportunity for the first time since Adam's expulsion from God's presence at the garden of Eden, to once again be reunited with Him.

5. How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

The two examples of numerical discrepancy here have to do with a decade in the number given. Ahaziah is said to have been 22 in 2 Kings 8:26; while in 2 Chronicles 22:2 Ahaziah is said to have been 42. Fortunately there is enough additional information in the Biblical text to show that the correct number is 22. Earlier in 2 Kings 8:17 the author mentions that Ahaziah's father Joram ben Ahab was 32 when he became King, and he died eight years later, at the age of 40. Therefore Ahaziah could not have been 42 at the time of his father's death at age 40! Such scribal errors do not change Jewish or Christian beliefs in the least. In such a case, another portion of scripture often corrects the mistake (2 Kings 8:26 in this instance). We must also remember that the scribes who were responsible for the copies were meticulously honest in handling Biblical texts. They delivered them as they received them, without changing even obvious mistakes, which are few indeed.

If you are saying the bible is complete

1. which is complete, the protestants (66 books) or catholics (73 books)

That is your problem, I only know of one bible, The Holy Bible which contains 66 books, i do not have any knowledge of any catholic bible having 73 books.

2. If the bible is complete, where are these verses in Revised Standard Version, Good News Bible, New International Bible, Living Bible Versions and other bibles apart from KJV

a.Mathew 17 v 21 (b) mark 11 v 26 (c) acts 8 v 37 (d) Mathew 17 v 21 (e) Mathew 21 v 44 (f) Mathew 23 v 14 etc

Well, I do not know of this but I do not use any other bible rather than the King James Version, and that is your crab to break but it does not change anything about the truth.

3. If the bible is complete

a.
Numbers 21:14 Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the Lord, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon,

where is the Book of the Wars of the Lord? The book of the wars of the Lord - This seems to have been some poem or narration of the wars and victories of the Lord, either by: or relating to the Israelites: which may be asserted without any prejudice to the integrity of the holy scripture, because this book doth not appear to have been written by a prophet, or to be designed for a part of the canon, which yet Moses might quote.

Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

2 Samuel 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)

where is the Book of Jasher?

where is the Book of Samuel the Seer and Gad the Seer?

d.1 Chronicles 29:29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer,…

where is the book of Nathan the Prophet?

e. 2 Chronicles 9:29 Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, first and last, are they not written in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer against Jeroboam the son of Nebat?

Where is the prophecy of Ahijah and Shilonite and the visions of Iddo the Seer?

f.2 Chronicles 12:15 Now the acts of Rehoboam, first and last, are they not written in the book of Shemaiah the prophet, and of Iddo the seer concerning genealogies? And there were wars between Rehoboam and Jeroboam continually.

Where is the Book of Shemaiah, the prophet?

g.2 Chronicles 20:34 Now the rest of the acts of Jehoshaphat, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Jehu the son of Hanani, who is mentioned in the book of the kings of Israel.

Where is the Book of Jehu?

h.2 Chronicles 26:22 Now the rest of the acts of Uzziah, first and last, did Isaiah the prophet, the son of Amoz, write.

Where is the Acts of Uzziah?
These are no questions for me to answer, ask God why he did not add the book of Jasher, book of Nathan the Prophet? and others to the bible.
But there is one thing thats is sure, the Foundation of the Lord standeth sure, and the Lord knows those who are his.
Also Psalm19:7 "the word of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul:the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple", Psalm 12:6 "The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in the furnance of earth, purified seven times." And like i said in my earlier post, they do notb hold water, they are baseless.

@oladigbolu
hey, where were you when we treated that, go and ask your fellow muslim babs, to give you the fact. and from your question, i derived mine, so where did islam originated from?, tell me who really is sent to preach the religion?, also, what happens to those other prophets like Amos, Malachi, Haggai, John the bapstist and others that were mentioned in the bible, in the quran?, also tell about the three daughters of your pagan diety Allah, the moon god, tell me about aisha muhammad's child bride. you have a lot of crab to crack, if you interfere you will run at last. ok

Are you after the grammar or what it entails, you seems to be losst of word, and only want to change the topic cos you do not have a good remorse for spreading false in Christiandom. lets get back to business, Selfish Christian who can not appreciate his pastor in giving.

please tell him cos he claims to know the bible even more than the writers whom God inspired, he really needs prayer, and i think for the loveof the lost soul, the christians in NL should pray for him. Serious one with fasting if possible.

According to the scriptures - "Deut 26:12-14 “When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled".

Now you said in one of the FAQs that I can only give my tithe to the church where I worship and do not have the discretion to use it the way I want, which I believe contradicts the scripture dictate above.

Can you please throw more light on this as I believe in using it for other charitable means than gibving it to the church who in some cases mismanages it, though this does not really concern or bother me.

Well, I think the sripture speak well of itself, When thou hast made an end of tithing, when you have given to God that which belongs to him, it continues all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled"., that which belongs to the levite, the one you give to the orphans, widows and others are also tithe but they should not interfere with that of the levites, that they may eat within that which the Lord has blessed you with, so when you give in charity, it should not be an excuse to cater for you pastor.
@Kunleoshob
What you fail to realize is that the bible was compiled by the early catholic church under the directive of a roman empire who influenced which books to be included in the bible for political reasons. The decision to include this old testament books in the bible was done by mere men and there is NO evidence or claim that they were divinely inspired to choose the books they did as they had to debate them and vote before agreeing which books to be included. I think as christian we should focus more on the teachings of Christ and the apostles as a lot of teachings in the old testament are jewish and not relevant to christianity which is a totally different belief syatem.

Then i think it does not worth believing, cos my bible tells me all scripturewritten is the inspiration of God, not compiled by any catholic church or whereever, ok, the bible was before any catholic was, i wonder wher you get your story, you should have also said we should not believe any of the Old Testament prophets, or even quote from them, The old testament is The foundation and begining of God's work and also the foundation for the new testament, and if they are not relevant, the prophecies are nothing to write home about. you really need to prove your point. Mr. Kunle.

I don't think he would be able to else you make him contradict himself or further twist the scriptures.

Well, I see Mr. Kunle Twisting, displacing, contradicting and capsiding the bible here

@Kunleoshob
Malachi 3:10 was not directed to christians but to jews. christianity did not exist then and the type of tithing the jews practised (eating of tithes in the house of God) is totally different from the fraudulent version introduced to churches today(ten percent of monthly income strictly meant for the church) . That apart several scriptures in the bible make it clear that christians are not under the law, if you are a christian that you claim to be, i am sue you should know that without me quoting scriptures for you. but if in doubt read romans 10:4, and galatians chapter 3 & 5. A chrisitan who tries to justify himself by obeying the law is cutting himself away from the grace of christ galatians 5:4. i sincerely hope you don'y cut yourself away and lead others away by your manipulated scriptures on this thread.


Hmmmmmmm, I think, you now really need answer my question now, though i have given a supposed answer.
1. what do the christians believe in?
You said manipulate. when i quoted right from the Bible, and for your information, Grace can only abide when you obey God, and if really you do not want to obey the law, The whole of the old testament should be abolished, isn't it?, there is a reason for it being included, or if it has no importance, it shouldn't be.

@babs787


Funny being claiming that he would reply me when he has time. You have time to post lies that you have not been able to support with facts but does not have time to explain the glaring issues from your book.

Noetic could assist you and I remembered creating three threads challenging four of you in which none of you could discuss and answer simple questions.

Olodo set of people

I think you are very good with using the word OLODO, i wonder if you are not one cos you know this is not the original tread, you manipulated the whole thing and also diverting it. but you know what? I have no outa of doubt about how iI feel about Islam and neither am I shaken on the Solid Rock-CHRIST JESUS. I also wonder at what you consider corrupt, since it it totally corrupt, let the corrupt book be and read the incorruptible book which is the least perfect. BUt as for me, I prefer to be called The Son of God through Christ Jesus.

@Kunleoshob
Tithes as nothing to do with christianity, it was the greed of man that made some preachers twist the meaning of biblical tithing and introduce it to christianity 700 years after chirstianity started. You would find NO record of tithing amongst Jesus or his disciples. The early christian records in the epistles never had any record of tithing as well what they preached was free will offerings. It is evil, wicked andd sinful to manipulate the word of god to Justify this type of fraudulent tithes being solicited in churches today, any pastor that is not satified with the offerings being ngiven to him should go and work. And those who believe in compulsory tithing under the law should remember that they are cutting themselves away from the grace of christ (galatians 5:4). @Poster no matter how much you try to twist the scripture, tithing was never directed at christians in the bible and the type of tithing practised in biblical times(agricultural produce) is totally different from the fraudulent version(money/income) demanded by churches today. Also remember that deut14 22-29 says a tither should eat of his tithes with his family Tongue

When it has biblical backup?
Mal 3:10-11“Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts”
Matt 23:23.“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.”
Lk 18:9-12. “And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.”

If it has nothing to do with the Christians, what do the christians believe in? and if you answer is the bible, where did the instruction of tithe came from in Mal 3:10-11, and remeber, Jesus did not come to destroy the Law, He came to fulfill the law, so you are only brainwashing your self and a selfish person, cos i see nothing bad in appreciating your pastor by giving a certain amount, someone who takes care of you spiritually. It is a shame, you only love your pastor with your mouth and not with your substance.[/color]

@Pastor AIO


I
You have already been advised to read through all the prior threads on tithing but somehow you are not willing to. However I will indulge you, albeit briefing . . .


Tithe means dedicated the first one-tenth of our income for support of God’s work in faith and love through righteousness. It is a command from God.

This is your first lie. Tithe is food. the produce of the land. Not income. Tithe is food that you are suppose to take to the presence of the Lord and eat in the presence of the Lord. There is no where where it says that the purpose of tithe is to 'support God's work in faith and love . . . blah blah blah'. So when you support your filthy lying statement with these scriptures:


Lev 27:30, “And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD”

Deut 26:1-2, “And it shall be, when thou art come in unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and possessest it, and dwellest therein; That thou shalt take of the first of all the fruit of the earth, which thou shalt bring of thy land that the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt put it in a basket, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name there”
Mal 3:10-11. “Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts”

. . . I can only conclude that you are truly hallucinating or satan has got you completely hoodwinked and in his pocket because nowhere in those verses does it mention income but rather they all talk about food, the produce of the land. "Bring the tithe into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house". I don't know the quality of your eyesight that you saw 'Bring your cash in the Treasury, that there may be Wealth in mine house'.

I never said Tithe was Money, you have only termed it and I will agree with you on one aspect. Why?
Cos you tend not to understand it, and I will expalin it to you.
The Word Income is what ever you get or derive from the work you do. And during the time of the Israelites,their major occupation was Farming or shepard and they never engaged in external business transaction, and with that they deal in Farm produce, which is why the Food or Farm produce was used to address them on how to give their tithe. And nowadays, we have differ occupations and all the end result is what? Money, even farmers, they sell their farm produce to get what? Money, so if you say tithe is money, I agree cos money can buy anything, Also did your thinking faculty tell you that Abraham's Spoils were Food in Gen 14:20 “And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all”

Heb 7:2-6 ‘To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; , unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.”. You need to study the bible with the relationship it has with our present world not see it as in the day of the Israelites,
I saw you quoted Mal 3:10-11, do you really know what it says and if you do. do you adhere to it or pick those that suits you?
If it is not an act of selfishness, I see no reason why people like you find it difficult to give a certain amout to their pastor, someone who cares for you both Spiritually and physically.

Being a pastor does not matter now, but facing the fact gotten from the bible is what matter, as you know tithing is a controvercial issue in christiandom. We all need to get it all clear not confused which is why i posted it. thnks

@SirJohn

Who is this copy and paste poster? My friend go and study your bible and stop lifting write ups from webpages.

i thought you are reasonable, did i get this fact from any other place than the bible, your reply show how shocked you are, i think you need to take a better look at it and digest it with almost sincereity and not what you claim to believe in. ok


@Pastor AIO

He even started another thread here:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-263218.0.html
with the same nonsense. It would please me if the new thread were just ignored. Although I don't think that will happen. Someone is bound to react.

I doubt if you are really a pastor, well you better be not, cos you are disgrace to that set of honoured people.

I think we already have enough threads on tithing and that all the points on both sides have been exhaustively thrashed out. If anyone wants to cling recalcitrantly to falsehood then that is their own problem.

Really! and then you have not been able to prove that Tithing is not biblical, well you also need to read the post again, if those bible references are not in your bible, then we can talk, if otherwise, you need to swallow you mess in NL.

@bisiofgod

You should thank God, cos he has opened your inner eyes and your understanding to see the truth about tithe, may he uphold you. Many have been mislead about it and has rightly led them to hell, we need to take care of our pastors since the pray, intercede on our behalf, we should not only be mouthfully thankfull but givingly thankful. God bless you.

@poster
Why do you want to do with the hebrew name of Jesus, afteall it you have the so called arabic name, you asked the question, you answered it, so if you are not contented, go make your research ok.

Listen to yourself, how old was Samuel, when God spoke to him? it is your relationship with God that determines how much he talks to you, cos i see you people are really mean about him, to drag his name in the mud, abeg make you fear God.