@Babs
The intelligent one Grin. I have told you to tell the school I can enrol to broaden my knowledge since you have turned to mr. know-all. My good friend SIR TODAK Grin

and is that refering to Tudor? Since you are not able to refute me, you have been looking for every possible way to pick up a fight with me. heh but then do not get angry with me, islam is falsehood not even when you have shown your blindness to simple arithmetic, Olodo, like father (muhammad), like son (Babs).

@Olabowale
@Todak: A long time ago, the Liberty Stadium was the first, the only and national showcase of sport arena in Nigeria. I remember when WNTV was also the best in Nigeria, indeed the whole of Africa. At that time, this TV station was called "first in Africa" when they begin each daily transmission.In those days it wasn't 24 hours a day, but it started in the evening!

Today, Liberty Stadium is a relic of its old self. I doubt if any sporting event is held there, this days. Someday, maybe the Liberty Stadium will not even exist. I hope it is so. Now, a johnnie comes lately in that future day, say 100 years from now, in Ibadan, may actually denies that the stadium never, ever stood anywhere in Nigeria. Such a person will not even believe it, even if he were taking to the very place where the cornerstone of the foundation was laid.

U love to tell stories, hahahahahahah so the bible is now in reference to the liberty stadium then and now, meaning uncoruptible and now corrupt, heh, i will still ask you where is the original bible, simple

Now, there use to be a time that authentic and unadulterated Torah existed (the time that Moses was alive is part of that period, for sure), and for Psalm (the time that Prophet and King David was alive), and for Gospel (for sure, before Jesus was raised up).

And do you have that original copy with you or do you have where i personally can get it, you are showcasing your stupidity, just like going to a law court: the Prosecutor and the defendant, where is the evidence against the defendant?

Now, go get a Torah just before Moses (AS) died. Then a Psalm just before David (AS) died. And Gospel just before Jesus (AS) was raised up to heaven. Get those and that will be the true uncorrupted Books.

Then where are the original copies, you want to prove something false or corrupt and youn don't have the uncorrupted copies, it shows how foolish you are, seriously speaking, you can not provode me with the original copies of the bible and the one available yet, you calim as false,

I thereby advice you, if you can find them, compare each to the part that shares name with it, in your Bible.

Find what? as far as i am concern, and since you want to prove that the bible is false, get or provide me with the original copy? i believe in the bible that is presently in use, you do not, you claim it to be false, you should provide the original copy and yet you people quote from it.

I am sure that you will see the true Books and then you have your corrupted Books containing countless (versions).

Are you jealous of its countless versions? come and see how your fellow imams are pouring, forcing arabic and quranic verses into their wards with wild canes, is cos they don't understand and they are forced to. where some refuse to go to their islamic school which they should joyfully do, but beacuse of the brutallity and indecisiveness of islam makes it difficult to capture.

Now, Jerusalem is neither a Christian city, nor was it empty without inhabitants before the arrival of Prophet Ibrahim (AS) to the city.

And was it a muslim city?

I don't know what you are saying about Jerusalem. Look around, the most important buildings in that city is a mosque. I like to say that Al Aqsa is more important than Dome of the Rock Masjid. The Dome of the Rock has a rock that remains levitated and the hand print of Muhammad (AS) remains on it. I wonder if there is a prophet (AS) who left something as distinctly as clear as that, in Jerusalem? I am not talking about what some persons are just assuming. But the real McCoy. is there any? I wanna know.

Listen to yourself, You talk about jerusalem as if it is an islamic state? what do you about Jerusalem, and the only landmark of muhammad is the al aqsa mosque, you talk of hand print of muhammad, in jeruslaem and its environs, you will see the various landmark of Jesus christ: Golgotha, the place of his crucifix, the mountain of Transfiguration and many others. do not claim to be ignorant of this, though israel do not believe in Jesus as a saviour, they knew he was greater than just a prophet.and if you do not know just 16.2% of them are muslims, does that make them an islamic state? cos you trying leave a coy that they believe in islam, no and never not even a quarter of them do

;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d ;d

@Olabowale
And Moses is dead. We know that he liberated and saved the lives of more Jews than Jesus did. Does it make Moses less of a prophet than Jesus because he died? What about how the Jews, the holders of the laws and salvation is through them, look at these two men, Jesus and Moses? Will the opinion of the Jews count? Am asking you, Todak.

Which do you think is greater? and that is not the answer to my question, you are spoilt of that, using question to answer question via change of topic.

Abraham is dead. He was the Friend of God. And every religion, Judaism, Christianity and Islam is always wanting to be affiliated with him. He is dead, I said, Todak. Why is Christianity wants to be known as one of the Abrahamic religions? Please tell me who is greater between Abraham and Jesus, even now that you say Christianity is Abrahamic religion?

And if i tell you will your islamic brain fluid make you accept or see "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God", so tell me where is Abraham?

Finally, John the son of Zachariah baptized Jesus. John was beheaded. Who is greater, the one who baptoized or the one who was baptized? I hope you have your thinking cap on. These questions will betray your ignorance. Rather your blind faith, without any logical explanation.

hahahahahahah, John the baptist gave the answer him self "the one who come after me whose shoe i'm not worthy to unloose". Olodo, he has swallow all muhammad told him through the quran.

Who is stronger the person that a whole mob of people killed or the person who died on his death bed, at home among his family? This person was revered so much that when he was alive his enemies could not dare to kill him with all their weaponry. They resulted into using poison which he live with without immediate effect on him for many years, before he died. This same person, his close companion, Umar bin Khattab (ra) said that if he ever hear anyone says that he had died, he personally will behead him. He was only brought back to his senses by another companion, Abu Bakr (ra) reciting the verse predicting his death, from the Quran. Read Surah Al Imran.


well, you have taught me to answer questions with question, now tell me who is still alive and will still come back among both of them, tell me also which of them was his death predicted to be accurate, did the quran specifically say, muhammad will be killed by malaria or is it fever.?

I will not sppoon feed you my man. But when you spew lies, if I see it, and am not too busy, I will respond yo it. Tell me who is greater or who is less, if you are their Creator? Stop acting childish and intentionally lying about the truth. Unless you don't know. Then just say so and somebody will educate you, inshaAllah.


Well, you can declare a fatwa or spew your jagourns on what i am about to say, Jesus is greater, far greater that all you have mentioned. hit your head on the wall

@ bawomolo

So you can kill the mother of your children, just because she left islam? can you see the merciful and most-forgiving allah you serve?

Noetic, don't you know he is a blood Sucking demon?

babs, i don't know all, but you were once the pythagoras of NL but you fell blatantly, you know and you know how much you criticize my arithmetic, so why call me "Mr. Know All",

@ronkeenuf

YES, MIRACLES DO HAPPEN IN ISLAM. I'm a living testimony to it,
when these miracles occur, they occur naturally, i.e. without the action sounds like in the movies, so much that I feel that what had happened would have happened even if I had not prayed for it, which is wrong of me. I ussually have to remind myself like, 'that was a miracle, really u should be very greatful'

Plz can you share it with us

. However, brothers and sisters, don't get me wrong,Islam preaches that if one has a medical ailment, one should seek professional advice not spiritualists We should therefore not have malaria and sit at home praying it should be gone by daylight but in whatever situation we are, after having sought professional help, one should always know that all will and power lies with Allah, He tought the doctors what they know so even a successful treatment from them is A MIRACLE,

Yes, that is a good advice but My God cures malaria you run to doctors for. i'm not agaist your going to the doctor and it is ot against the bible ethics but there are some levels of faith you get to for you to command malaria and they obey you and disappear and also i want you to know my God can do Unnatural miracles.

,
Brothers, Brothers, please do not let us be caried away by distractors. Remember, the prophet and the Quran make us understand that no matter how much u argue with a deaf and blind person(ignorant yet stubborn) he will not accept the truth. So please educate the unbeleivers to the best u can but don't be drawn into abusive sessions with them, thats not a muslim characteristic. If it's Allah will that they will become muslims, they will be, no doubt about that. Salamalaykun

And who is the deaf and blind? is that the truth, calling some people deaf and blind. thanks for the islamic insult. and that is the truth, indeed the truth that we are infidels


The Messenger of Allah possesses many manifest miracles and signs demonstrating [his veracity], reaching thousands and they are well known.

From amongst them was the Qur'an, the manifest and clear miracle and brilliant proof, falsehood cannot approach it from before it or behind it. It is a revelation from One Who is All-Wise and Praiseworthy. It incapacitated the most eloquent of people in the most eloquent of times to produce a single chapter that would be comparable to it, even if the whole of creation were to gather for that purpose

The miraculous quran is also full of contradictions and deciet, do you know about that?

. Allah, the Exalted says,

"Say: If the whole of mankind and the jinn gathered in order to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like of it, even if they assisted each other." [Al-Israa' (17): 88]

Who are the jinns, and why have we not heard of them in the pre-islamic days? it is a curious question. and really, it will be difficult to make such a book of lies and deciet now adays as people are now wiser and can not be taken for a fool

It challenged them to this despite their large numbers, their eloquence and their severe enmity, and it challenges them to this day.

Indeed a challenge to kill more, fight more, and destroy more

As for the other miracles, it is not possible to enumerate them all due to their huge number and renewing and increasing nature. However, I will mention some examples:

The splitting of the moon, water flowing from between his fingers, increasing the quantity of food and water, the glorification of the food, the palm tree yearning for him, stones greeting him, the talking of the poisoned leg [of roasted sheep], trees walking towards him, two trees that were far apart coming together and then parting again, the barren [and therefore dry] sheep giving milk, , from islam.com


where are your quranic references. i did not ask of you from some site of sort, except from your holy book.I taught you wanted to bail others out, but you have added to their irrelevant posts. which has not given me the slightest answer. Give me refrences from thje quran, no hadith this time. simple

@Horus
It is just a pity that when you die, Jesus will reject you, Allah will reject you, buddha will reject you, Mormon will do the same, even the ancestors of your forefather especially if you are a yoruba, the like of ifa, orunmila, sango,ogun,osun,and others will also reject you. So the question leaves you to where will you be or go after you die??

@Abuzola
don't u undastand simple english, i said they were destroyed, d so called bible u read is fake

Well, i would have love to enroll for english lessons but i fear for the day you will in the name of jihad ******* to me.

Well at the same time, na only your own i never see for my life o. wey your evidence? if you no get evidence? how can you tell that the bible is corrupt, where even your great grand father never dey when the bible don dey, and you just open that foul mouth of yours. well, as far as i am concern, no evidence (ie the original bible), no case. you can only continue to roll your tongue to your fellow slaves and they swallow that. gbruuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

@Abuzola
Yeah this was wat i ve been waiting for, u can't stand my feet, am not usin google so don't ask me for it go check wiki

and that is what imposters like you say cos they groove with emptiness in their filty oblongata

On the history of jerusalem go and do ur research because i already knew it in my accademic

Why not pour your lies right here, and let that teacher who taught you curse you. I wonder what that filty brain of yours knows about Jerusalem

@Abuzola
Hey i can't help u with u with history of jerusalem is a long story, d roman invaded d temple of solomon and demolish it

My Gracious God, so you do not have reference to your accusation, what a pity, so you do not have facts to present, now i know whom i'm debating with. an imposter

They burnt down d scripture and killed those who memorized it therefore bringng an end to the bible, u can comfirm

GIve me references


The original bible is in d Quran both old testament and new testament including psalm, The Quran says so

So now the bible is the quran now, hmmm, you know what, i will not answer your post again, you are an inteligent crook and i don't discuss with people like you, only and only if you provide me with the source of your accusation and produce the original bible

@Virgo
What should i beware of. Jihad, or Fatwa?

@Olabowale
Islam is not in lock-in steps with any religion. The Christian for example, have 3 gods as they express it in Trinity. Though the word trinity is not in any part of the Bible.

You have started with your falsehood about the bible, what gives you that confidence that We serve three gods or whatever, We believe in one God but in Three dimensions.Simple, it is a mystery you can not understand, like i have given you an example, You as an individual, Yopu are made of three part, your Body, Soul and Spirit, and those that make you three? I guess your answser is No, but the body,soul and spirit make up what you are, but you are one, the three have different functions but you are still one. You will not understand with those islamic glasses, and it is only slaves like you, you can convince that the Xtians serve 3 gods, fine but we Xtians know we serve one God but in three

And you aslo said the word, trinity is not in the bible, yes i quite agree, but the bible has a lot of backups for trinity, when Jesus was baptised, the trinity was in display there, when Jesus was about to leave the earth, he told them to baptised in the name of the father, of the son, and the holy spirit. In 1john5:7, the bible told us that there are three that bears record in heaven, the Father, the word, and the spirit, so what other reference do you want for trinity.

We also know that the Jews do not believe in it, yet they read the same Bible.

And where did you get these fact from, i only know the jews to believe in Judaism and their religious book, which is not the bible,

The Christian reads everything and believs in part; the New Testament. The Jews read only the Old testament of Moses and the Psalm of David.

And that is the diference between Xtians and all others,

We have to ask ourselves how the christian comes up with Trinity while timid enough to not have it in their Holy Book? But thats beside the question.

Thats a lie, and therefore you can only use this to convince your fellow slaves, Trinity is not a haox, but a fact about the God we serve. If the word "Trinity" is not in the bible, does not mean, what it entails is not true, yes. What is trinity? three in one, so that is not questionable. if you do not believe, that is your palava.


Muslim do not have stand up comical "testimony" that you have in Christianity, as if you are in the English House of Commons, taking the PM to task.

Are you jealous? In Xtianity we testify to the Goodness of God, to recieve more, to edify the congregation and motivate others, that theirs can also be solved. Our God is a miracle worker, not a dead and killer God, he care and takes care, and if the English house of common does that, i think it is for their edification and nothing other. So if you are jealous, do so in your mosque cos over here, some imams are beginning to do vigils and also equip their mosque with drum set and other musical equipment, and after they still hate and debunk civilization.

The fact that Islam is different in Belief of One Complete God, without any partner, all His Angels, Prophets and Pure Books as in the form it was revealed when the prophets were the costodians of them, etc show that Islam copies from no one!

Indeed, Islam is a religion who believe in one allah, but the same allah has three daughters and yet it is one god, polytheism wrapped in monothesim, islam is for people who will not grow and know who their creator is. Yes. History proves that. every thing done was the pagan way of worshiping allah, the father of three daughters, and yet it is one god. indeed it is.

Wy should it especialy when it is the final and complete religion to mankind, the way to receive mercy and forgiveness and attain piety from Allah?

From allah, yes not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel. Allah is not the god we Xtians serve, so you can get all you say from Allah, but for you to be saved by ours you need to believe in Jesus, not by just merely saying it, but also that he is the son of God.

Why should we have yor stereotypical "Christian testimony?" Ae we Christians? No.

Yes, thats it. you are not and so you should not criticize them, cos we do not serve the same God

@Abuzola
How dare u mock jesus, a crying god ! eli eli eli lima samathani hahaha, GOD will punish u

hmmmmmm, Ignorance is a serious disease, it is useless explaining to you. it is just a pity, the same Jesus you have rejected, will judge you and the muhammad you have esteemed will not be able to save not even allah.

@fellis
I charged my battery just some time ago, thats why am replying late. And unfortunately, my browser does not allow inserting quotes, so I'd just number my replies according to the diff. points you made.
1. You asked me which was false or twisted.
Basically everything you wrote, you wrote to potray him in a bad light.

well, that is your own point of view, i may have portray him bad, but all the references where from where?

Come on todak, Islam would not be such a widespread religion, or the fastest growing religion, if the man who preached it was known to have so many vices.

And have i not provided the vices, are they not true, fellis be sincere, and just like David had asked, what mean of spread?

I would have taken your points one by one, and brought the truth about them to the best of my ability, in this post, but I have exams I've got to study for, so I'd just do it post by post, gradually, as the days go by, Insha Allah, because, not only, would I be disproving, I would also have to bring proof of why I think I am right, and your points are quite numerous. I can't be done with them in just a short time.

You are welcome anytime

And also, todak, it would have been wiser to find out the truth about those things from knowledgeable muslims before coming to put them up here.

You said knowledgeable muslims, you are funny, you know the way you muslims behave when muhammad is discussed, you want my head to be jihaded?, i don't discuss any thing islamic outside the internet, cos here i am free to say, the worst bet is to have war of words and it dies down. you knew how many people were killed in the north, when a cartoon portraying muhammad was advertised in Denmark, not that i'm afraid, but like it is said, prevention is better than cure, so that is not a good advice, my friend.

I don't know what site or book you copied what you wrote from, but it was obviously an anti-Islamic one, whose aim it is to disparage Islam, even if it had to do so with falsifications. So there, I'd do what I can, gradually, Insha Allah, because of my exams.

Hmmmmmmm, i will quite agree with you but then, i only want you muslims to know that you highly esteemed prophet is not as good as proclaimed, and the quran confirms that.

2. You said you see my mentioning that the Bible has been corrupted as blasphemy. Todak, I'm not rubbing it in your face or anything, but it's true noowwww. It has actually been corrupted.

and do you actually have the incorruptible bible, i will love to have one too

All the while you have been reading the Bible have you not ever come across contradicting verses?

well, honestly i have not,

Do you honestly think the Bible was revealed with those contradictions?

which contradictions, the bible was written by different men and there are bound to be textual, methodogical,seasonal and indiviual difference, way of expression, but an inspiration of God, and since we alll agree it was written by men, your so called contradictition is nullified. But the quran was directly dictated to muhammad yet full of contradictions, have you also not notice that?

Do you think God would reveal something with all those discrepancies? Don't you agree that God is too perfect for that?

well, i do not know or see any discrepancies, and if you believe God is too perfect to make a mistake, do you believe he could keep his three previous books?

And my saying it has been corrupted, does not necessarily mean I'm implying that God cannot protect His books. He can. He has been protecting the Holy Qur'an all these years. He permitted those who corrupted the Bible to do so, the reasons why, are best known to Him. He permitted it does not mean he could not have stopped it. Hmm?


Well, i do not accept that, since he is capable of keeping his words, it can not be best known to him for not keeping the three previous books, there should be a good reason, how could he tell without a reason, ok, he is unquestionable, but his words here are questionable and he need to tell us a reason, cos i see this as an incompetent answer that arises from the islam to claim the truth and you expect we should believe that without any tangible reason and evidence?

3. That's not what I was made to know, that's the fact.

produce your evidence

4. Islam is not falsehood, it is The One True Way.

Do you knoww there can never be two truths?, one is either false and the other fact, what evidence do you have to believe it is not falsehood?

5. I thought Jesus Christ was recorded in the bible to have said he did not come to change the law but to fulfill it? Why did you say the old laws passed out right after Jesus came?

I used the word passed out does not mean it is abolished, the fulmillment of the law was simple, he summarized the law into two, "Love your neighbour as your self" and "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your might" , and that is the fulfillment of the law, cos when you love you will not do any thing bad to your neighbour or God.

And even if love for one's enemies was commanded, does that mean defense against their harm was completely prohibited? Or don't you know that the verse was referring to the enemies of Islam (not just any innocent by-stander), who wanted to cause undeserved harm to the Muslims?

defense just for a slap, can that lead to war?, muslims do not tolerate other religion, and the next is to defend their religion in the name of jihad, why? can't allah fight for himself, if he is capable and he is God, he does not need your help to fight for him? yes cos when you love your enemy, you will not see his fault and your love will draw him closer.

6. Apology accepted. I have never insulted you so do not insult me.

Fine

7. Please.
God does not demand perfectness from human beings. Only He is perfect. Humans are prone to mistakes, or erring. It's a quality that is inseperable from their being. There's no amount of gradual work that would make you a perfectly sinless human being. You could only succeed in being able to avoid sinning INTENTIONALLY. Not altogether. Because as a human being, you are imperfect. . .and you forget.

hmmmmmmmmmm and thats the difference between the God we serve and allah, our GOd demand perfectness, yes humans are not perfect but christians are perfect in the righteousness and perfetness of Christ and thats why for Christ's perfection to be ours, we ask for his forgiveness so we can be partaker of his righteousness. cos perfectness can not be attain humanly but can be spiritually which affects the physical

8. Ok.

hmmmm

9. Good. Hope the insult free relationship is here to stay. And about the site, Am okay with Islam. Infact I make prayers to live my entire life as a muslim and die as one also.

You are free to and as the quran says "there is no compulsion in religion".

Try to read and understand my points without bias. Thanks. It's not a war, it's just a religious discussion.

Thats not a problem. you are welcome

Okay.
I am going to do what I can today, regarding your points.
In no particular order:
* You said Mohammed (SAW) was the last prophet.
Very true. He was in fact the last prophet of The One True God. He never claimed to be God or the son of God, and he spread His Message and obeyed His decrees on earth. I see nothing wrong in his being a humble servant of God. A God who has no children by the way.

He claimed and according to the quran as there were no foretelling of a prophet

* Mohammed, while he was on earth, did act as an advocate for the believers. In Q19-47, he was told to ask for forgiveness of the sins of the believing men and believing women. The verse you quoted, talked about ONLY the disbelievers, and why intercession on their behalf was not accepted is because disbelievers are going to end up in hell on Judgement Day, regardless of how well behaved they were. Belief, (being a muslim) is the first requirement for salvation on Judgement Day, and those without it, have no need for forgiveness because their disbelief would make them end up in hell anyway.

That means only believers can be forgiven,


And. Muslims do not need an intercessor while on earth because in the Qur'an, we are told to seek forgiveness for our sins. Q4:110: "And whoever does any evil, or wrongs himself, then seeks God's forgiveness; he will find God Forgiving, Merciful. "So really, a go-between is not necessary, since seeking forgiveness and sincere repentance is all that is needed. God does not make going through advocates a requirement. He is Merciful enough to forgive after direct asking.

ok

* You said Muhammed is a servant of Allah. So? Are we not all God's servants? Are we not controlled by Him? Are we not UNDER OBLIGATION to do whatever He commands us? Is the consequence of disobedience not punishment? You'd agree with me that we are right? So what does that make us?


And do you know the difference between a slave and a servant, they are contextually same but intently different, A servant is not bound by any permanent deal and can refuse to work for his master, he can willfully and without force do the will of his master, but a slave is bound to the cause of his master and has no right of his own,


And I wonder how Jesus can be one with the father and be the father's son, and also be an advocate to the father.
All at once.

that is the mystery called Jesus, but if you quite agree that,
1. he was born of no man
2. he still lives
3. he will come back to judge th earth

then i wonder why you find it difficult to believe that he is God, an Advocate to the father. cos none of these qualities muhammad had, worse still for muhammad he will be granted shifa by the same Jesus

No offence.
* Muhammed DID perform miracles. I'll be back Insha Allah.

help me with them, with quranic references
thanks

Bros don't use style to avoid the question, i can see fear in u, why not admit yes or no and see how i will handle u

Well, if i avoided your question, you taught me to, and also let your quran answer that for you, a prophet you do not regard but believe, but he is not only a prophet but God himself. hit yourself on the wall for that.

Thank you for noticing that. I sensed that this thread is intended to generate into your usual rhetoric hence my replying that way. Muslims know the stand of Birthday in Islam but noticed that you christian follow civilization when it concerns certain things hence my asking for the stand of that in your bible.

Babs, thanks for that, i notice that you are not only cool now, but you are now abit respectful and modest. hope to continue like this.


Muslims have responded, so what is christians' stand on that with biblical verses?

well, if my question was completely answerd i would have answered too. but what is yet to be answerd is the quranic backup or reference, not hadith. thanks


@ Mukina
whats ur own Huh Huh

Well, my own is to know more about the truth, not falsehood

Islam is one. Faith is belief in Allah and the messengers,The angels and the final day and the holy scriptures, it didnt say worship another human being.

And are you sure Ahmadias do not believe in all you have just said?

The Ahmadis have someone they call a reformer

And does this disqualify them as muslims?

@fellis

I don't even regard Ahmadis as muslims.
And may i ask why?

Islamic scholars have unanimously pronounced them Kuffar, and the Rasul(SAW) said ulamahs/scholars would not be unanimous on an issue except it is the truth.

But they believe in muhammad as the messenger of allah, after all that is the bases of islam? or any other reasons behind their disqualification?

@snwanduv
If you are not going to think or read please dont bother to respond.


I beg your pardon, are you afraid i countered you, i only want you to know that it is wrong to assume, and for your information, i read the post right well.

The article was talking about Early Catholic traditions. And as Catholicism was the first established church it goes along with what i am saying.

And the bible told you the early christians were catholics, and that thats the name Jesus gave to the church right?, Catholism was the first named church, my bible tells me they were called christians, for the first time, not catholics.

Except you know more about the History of the catholic church than the authors of the article.

That is the history of catholics not early christians, so please spare us those catholics stuff, and do you think catholic was the original church christ gave?

Is it my fault the early christians assumed?

It is your fault that you believed it and try to use it to convinve otheres without you having a good reference from the bible. If you follow my posts, i have always said, i hate false assumptions, what do you have to prove that the early christians were catholics?, well, if you have a biblical backup, go ahead with it, but if not, hold your peace.

The fact is that they assumed it and practiced it.

who assumed it? christ, catholics, the apostles or you? asumptions without the true leading is baseless

I never said the bible told us to,

And why did you believe it, which do you beleieve, the bible or the assumptions of what you believe?




all i said was early christians used to pray to the east. Please stop trying so hard to be right and try to learn.

And i asked for prove which you gave to be catholics, adn i asked a=did your bible refer to catholics as the early christians? Yes i always want to learn but not asumptions and falsehood

I did not post the verses to prove that it was fact they prayed to the east. I used the verses to show their rational. And those verses were not used to show why Christians used to pray to the east. I clearly stated it was Jews that used this.

But it was also clearly stated that the website was refering tyo catholics and can not be a ration or move to claim that early christians pray to the east.

Research the history of the catholic church(thus early christians).

That is a different search entirely, not early christians, they can not be refered to as catholics, never, cos the bible did not tell me that.

There are several similarities between all 3 religions and that is one.

And that is what you are after, go ahead, and when you are through with your similarity, then search for the differences and you will see the difference.

@Abuzola
That does not answer my question, show me in the quran or the bible where he fought jihad. goon

@All slaves

How did he die since he was not crucified?

And also one of you said, he is still alive, i'm glad to hear that, but this also proves the diety of Jesus, cos the quran says, he will be raised up to God, and if Jesus is alive and muhammad dead. Who is a better prophet?

@ all slaves of allah

Since you are all bent on the prophethood of muhammad, well, religiously, he is, but then, i want this tread to take a new dimension,

WHAT ARE THE QUALITIES OF A PROPHET?

The Original Bible like history state, they were all burnt down by the Roman soldiers and even pulled down the temple of solomon

Hmmmm, since the original bible is not what we read, then you or your islam slaves should have a copy of the original, and here you are claiming the bible false cos you read from an history well, i will like you to give me the history site, tell it according to a historian,

@Olabowale
Is that the answer tom my question?

I also, i'm not here to win an arguement, but i hate lies, sheer lies and thats what you proclaim,

@Olabowale
@Todak: You seem to be a person who have eyes but cant see, with ears without hearing, heart that is dead. Sorry my man. You tend not to understand.

Ewoooooooooooooooo, he is now calling me names , tell me have you seen me that you are telling me who i am, or maybe to NLers, that todak is a blind, deaf and dead hearted fellow, hmmmmm oro dun won bo, oro si ti n jabo lenu won. Continue, it would not stop me from saying the Truth, which you know, JESUS IS LORD,GOD, THE FIRST AMONG THE DEAD, THE PRINCE OF PEACE, THE SON OF GOD, HE IS MY SUFFCIENCY, MY ALL IN ALL. hitt your head no a nail for that, hmmmmmmm

When you talked about Muhammad and killing in wars, I needed to remind you that in the Bible, Moses who pillaged (read your Old testament), was still speaking with God/Yahweh/Jehovah/Eloi without anybody to be the go between. Yet, Moses led the Children of Israel for almost 40 years. He was the most successful and most recognizable prophet from their society.

You are the one that seems to have eyes that does not see, now, was muhammad born during the time of Moses? or to put it more clearer was he born under the law?, if you answer, i will reply you since you have been foolish enough not to open a post concerning your worries of moses and others who fought wars in the OT.

Ask the Children of Isael who now call themselves "Jews". They will tell you since they do not recognize Jesus even as a prophet, except maybe as a "Rabbi!" Ask a Jew, I said. Or ask many of them. They will tell you.

And do you care to know why, open a new thread.

This is the reason that the "Jews" (I disike to call them that, except when in mockery. And I dont do that at all since my lawyers and some associates are for the most part Bani Israel; sorry Larry, Freddy baby, etc) never come to the religion that you formed using Jesus name.

, Jesus camefor the salvation of All, but Israel his own people rejected him, why cos they knew his bacjground, the son of a carpenter, they despise, and that's why he said"a prophet has no honour in his hometown" the gentiles accepted him, Samaria of all people accepted the God. Everyone is free to choice whom to follow, that is not a point,

Today, a Jew who is a Christian is in the dog house in Israel. The same Israeli people who you claim that they are the covenant people. I wonder if their covenant is still valid/current and if it is, what then happens to yours, the Christians? If not valid/acceptable anymore, what in the world will make you say that they are still "covenant" people, if truly has any current covenant?

You can ask Arafat, Khomeini and the rest that, if they wer for once COMPLETELY defeated. if there is still a nation called Israel today?

You must be using the same misdirected thinking, as above on the validity of Covenant; Jewish or that of another with the christian. You cant have two covenants going on as valid at the same time. If you do, then what is therefore special or the need for the one that is more recent, the or both, or the one that was earlier? I think you are using the same thinking methodology, above to still call a woman a virgin, after you said (Check the Bible) that she had 2 sons in addition to the miraculous birth which we both agreed upon. I wonder if after sexual encounter with Joseph, the man she had the children wth, can she be called virgin anymore? If yes, then the word lost its luster.

Well, the convenant works for them and for us to christians, cos we are the spiritual Israelites, i will expain better if you open a tread on it.

By the way I used "another" hoping that the matter of "another Comforter" may now register in their psyche. Consider that you can have "another" except there was something else of the same nature, regardless of one existing before the other, or at the same time. I am still wondering who the first Comforter was that prompted Jesus to say "another Comforter?"

You have a grammartical infection of misinterpretion psyching your brain, what is he, a sorrower?

I am going to assume that if your answer is yes, then a woman with 2 children with her husband as a result of actual sexual intercourse(s) will still be a virgin! You see how wrong you are?

If you are still refering to mary, open a new post

And for your information. you seem to be unabble to debunk me, and so want to divert het of the tread, i will answer you no more except for what is originally discussed, cos islam has nothing good to offer, only slavery
@Abuzola
One thing the worshippers of d cross fail to realize is EVERY PROPHET HAD DONE JIHAD, Even jesus ? absolutely

Explain better, where and how did he did jihad?

Jews use/used these verses as rational to pray to the east
Ezekiel 43:1-2
“Then he lead me to the gate which faces the east, and there I saw the glory of the God of Israel coming from the east”

and Ezekiel 43:4

“the Glory of the LORD entered the temple by the way of the gate which faces the east”


My Gracious God!!!!!!!!!!! , and this point specifically to the early christians, haba why do people give assumption, i hate assumming, here, Ezekiel was talking about the Glory of GOd which entered throught the East gate, so the only interpretation you could give to it is that, is it is the criteria for the early christians right? and does it refer to them, or rather does it refer even to the jew, concerning worshiping God facing the east, well, the verses speaks for them selves. as they do not refer to any form of worship

And from the website(in red), does any biblical verse qouted supports their claim, it was assumptions, kaii

As the lightning comes from the East . . so shall the Son of Man appear" Mt 24:27).

So this verse proves that early xtians faced the east, or could convince them?

"The Orient is his name" (Zec 6:12)

What has this got to do with mode of worship?

Finally, heaven is also the eternal home that we desire. Facing the East was therefore thought to be a way of peering into Paradise, which God had "planted in the East" (Gn 2:,

how dare them think, why did they think? it is not there, but cos of the prominence of East, it was thought, without any biblical backup for such


It is by reason of an unwritten tradition that we turn to the East to pray.

Where did they get that tradition from, From the bible, from christ or judaism?

I did not say Islam copied Christianity. What i meant was that it is one of the traditions that are similar to all 3 faiths. And we all know that Judaism was the first of the 3, so if there is a similarity, it is not wrong to guess it came from Judaism.

It wrong to guess from a wrong pespective, mr.

@ Olabowale

You did not tell C-noetic that it is also full of contradictions,