₦airaland Forum

Pastor Kun:
@Tonye t
I have always known you to be a dunce so I am not suprised at your daft remarks. It is quite evident you created this. Thread to spark controversy knowing fully well in your heart of heart that pastor chris is fraudulent character with no morals or regard for God hence he deserves no respect. Just like you like starting tithing topics to create controversy after it has been proven beyond any iota of doubt on this forum that tithing as it is preached today is fraudulent and without sound biblical basis neither was it directed at christians.

Any way keep up the "good" work you are doing cause it always back fires even though you are tooooooo daft to realise that. By virtue of this thread for instance a lot more people are now better informed of the immoral and criminal acts of Oyaks which makes him a false pastor. Keep on spreading the word.

Oyinprince:
Oh Boy, See Glory wey dis Man Dey carry , People dey argue about am , while im dey change the world and they impact people for Christ

Like it or Not, It will only Get better, He's increasing everyday

Kunle,

I'll say you should rather shut your foolish mouth up. . .just because you guys see a meek guy dishing honest answers to your posts you think you could throw insults on him. . .why dont you guys just face me! . . .afterall I created the thread. . .nonsense!

firstly,

I think you are rather the daft for assuming that because some politician returned campaign donations from questionable source therefore means Pastor Chris has violated the provisions sorrounding his own case for not returning his.

A sincere point should be to ask if Pastor Chris is a criminal for not returning money stolen given to his church from a thief. Does the law say Pastor Chris is the thief? or did it say CEC should be declared a criminal institution?

I showed you guys (especially enigma who was the first to throw his weak tandrums) what the International law for criminal sanctions provided against money launders/laundering and you pretended not to see it. . .not surprised as it seems your customs.

Criminal sanctions for money laundering says

Criminal sanctions

Money laundering has been criminalized in the United States since the Money Laundering Control Act of 1986. That legislation, contained at section 1956 of Title 18 of the United States Code, prohibits individuals from engaging in a financial transaction with proceeds that were generated from certain specific crimes, known as “specified unlawful activities” (SUAs). Additionally, the law requires that an individual specifically intend in making the transaction to conceal the source, ownership or control of the funds.

There is no minimum threshold of money, nor is there the requirement that the transaction succeed in actually disguising the money. Moreover, a “financial transaction” has been broadly defined, and need not involve a financial institution, or even a business. Merely passing money from one person to another, so long as it is done with the intent to disguise the source, ownership, location or control of the money, has been deemed a financial transaction under the law. However, the lone possession of money without either a financial transaction or an intent to conceal is not a crime in the United States. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering

Barr rich:
Enigma,

I have looked at the sections of the provisions of the criminal code you are quoting to establish stealing against Pastor Chris and the church. And it seems the only way to enlighten you on this is with regards to the law of the land.
First of all I think I need to enlighten you on the procedure in criminal litigation.
Where there is an offence of theft against a person, the matter is reported to the police and the police carry out their investigations.
After investigating and taking the statements of all persons concerned, they prepare their report on the matter and send it to the DPP, i.e, Director of Public Prosecution, who will give them advice on the section(s) of the criminal code to charge the offender, if there is any offence.
The police will, based on the advice, charge the matter to court for prosecution and the court will decide based on evidence available to it, and rule whether the offender is guilty or not. If guilty, then you can call him a thief.
In the present case which you are prosecuting on this platform, you happen to be the complainant, prosecutor and the court. Legally speaking, what you are doing on this platform is not a good thing because an action can lie against you in a court.
This is not a court where someone is prosecuted and charged but that is what you are doing.
If the matter had gone through the procedure enumerated above for you, you will see that the matter was not carried further because there was no legally triable issue.
I really don't know if you are a lawyer, because if you were, I will say that you're not a fit and proper person to be called to the Nigerian bar. Thank you

God bless U Sir!

And LWKM on the last line boldened. . .  

Enigma:
Ah, so you agree that your "church", Chris Embassy, is a business collecting fees/money from its 'clients'!

OK, then. 


PS even Obama had more sense (or more "Holy Spirit" to order the return of 'improper' funds contributed for his campaign.

Enigma:
By the way, also ask Ashimolowo if it is possible under the law for a church pastor to be regarded as misappropriating church funds. See, you can deceive your followers about what the Criminal code says or doesn't say --- but when you try it in a place like this, you will soon be exposed for both your ignorance and fraud.

Enigma:
See your life outside!  

When your ignorance is exposed, you start to look for straws to clutch at. Shebi, you were asking what the Criminal Code says about the "church"? Now my examples, even without explanation, show that you and your supporter are both talking nonsense.

Your "church" and your boss should know better to be receiving stolen money and stolen goods; what is more when you then KNOW because it is pointed out to you, the proper thing is to return the stolen money/property! But you worshippers of mammon are too greedy to do the decent thing.

By the way, also ask Ashimolowo if it is possible under the law for a church pastor to be regarded as misappropriating church funds. See, you can deceive your followers about what the Criminal code says or doesn't say --- but when you try it in a place like this, you will soon be exposed for both your ignorance and fraud.

@Enigma,

On the issue of Child abuse, I think without biase you and I should give the "most advocate against child abuse award" to Chris Embassy. . .i have proofs!

frosbel:
Not everyone who says he is a Christian is actually one.

Apostle John said many deceivers have gone out into the world.

These are men worshippers not God worshippers, they love the praise of men more than the praise of God.

We should always be on guard and use the bible as our standard.

frosbel my dear brother and best friend ,

We are not talking about deceivers here nor God worshippers this and that, we are soliciting to folks perceived to be civilized or unsentimental to see the man's humble achievements and simple RESPECT HIM. period!

At least folks who know me wont say I am a member of christ embassy, but when i see the truth i call it the truth. . . . that;s civility my friend.

frosbel:
Birds of the same feather flock together   

My boy how are you today? . . .you wanna join in the discourse? oh i see you lack the liver!

Money laundering is the process of disguising illegal sources of money so that it looks like it came from legal sources. -'wikipedia.org

Money laundering often occurs in three steps: first, cash is introduced into the financial system by some means (“placement”), the second involves carrying out complex financial transactions in order to camouflage the illegal source (“layering”), and the final step entails acquiring wealth generated from the transactions of the illicit funds (“integration”). Some of these steps may be omitted, depending on the circumstances; for example, non-cash proceeds that are already in the financial system would have no need for placement.[3]

Money laundering takes several different forms although most methods can be categorized into one of a few types. These include "bank methods, smurfing [also known as structuring], currency exchanges, and double-invoicing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering

Criminal sanctions

Money laundering has been criminalized in the United States since the Money Laundering Control Act of 1986. That legislation, contained at section 1956 of Title 18 of the United States Code, prohibits individuals from engaging in a financial transaction with proceeds that were generated from certain specific crimes, known as “specified unlawful activities” (SUAs). Additionally, the law requires that an individual specifically intend in making the transaction to conceal the source, ownership or control of the funds.

There is no minimum threshold of money, nor is there the requirement that the transaction succeed in actually disguising the money. Moreover, a “financial transaction” has been broadly defined, and need not involve a financial institution, or even a business. Merely passing money from one person to another, so long as it is done with the intent to disguise the source, ownership, location or control of the money, has been deemed a financial transaction under the law. However, the lone possession of money without either a financial transaction or an intent to conceal is not a crime in the United States.[53]

Hope you know understand that the crime of money laundering should be against the initial possessor of the money (the individual who does the transactions) and it doesnt involve the financial institution or the business in which the transaction was made?

Now if some guy steals one million naira and brings it to CEC as offering or tithe, who is to be called the thief or criminal? The man, the church ("herein called the business"?

folks should sometimes seize criticising issues especially when they lack the basic in the regards. . .I say this to Enigman and Alethiae!

Enigma:
For records and for records only (as I won't waste time on the penultimate above)

Does the Criminal Code say that a murder can be committed in "church"? Ask Reverend King!

Does the Criminal Code (or other statutory provision) say that a "church" could possibly be used for money laundering?

Does the Criminal Code say that a "church" can be guilty of child abuse? Ask the Rev Gilbert Deya and his wife.

Even Osama bin laden was highly respected by his followers, likewise Adolf hitler. Mohammed is even far more respected and he as inspired far more people to perdition than a million pastor chris can ever achieve so what is the big deal about being respected? Even our thieving politicians command a lot of respect. Please stop all these personality cult and focus on christ. Oyaks is not better than any other of his fellow charlatan false prophets and scammers fleecing people with the name of God.

. . .so stale If you believe Osama, Adolf as wicked or evil as they appear, command high respect from their followers tell me why a man who has fostered the course of God's kingdom should not be respected in his own fold.?

Kunle you have always lacked reasonable accusations against this man.

cold:
This line of argument is weak,misleading and bunkum.You watched the video didn't you?You saw a security man try to block the Channel 4 crew from filming & Rhodes' narrative of his experience afterwards.Why do you continue to hold on to a lie even when your conscience is continually pricking you & telling you to do the right thing.
Besides why do I have to experience anything personally to believe it?I don't allow things happen to me before I learn.I learn from other people's mistakes.It's called common sense

I finally see why 'folly' will never be erased from the dictionary!. . .some folks are just the reason the word go. Going through the entire video, there was no where i saw any man beaten or harrased by security teams of Christ embassy.

For God's sake, whatever happened to humans and our common sense ehn.? you claim you have it but really dont. Let me ask you this questions and make sure you answer me!

[list]
[li]How on earth will you feel if some guy in the name of a journalist suddenly bump into your fenced compound and starts taking pictures of your house, this same guy came in not greeting or saying a word to anyone and then he goes to the backyard, to te front side and the rears just busy taking pictures, suddenly feel he has the audacity to go into your room and take pictures yet not talking or saying any word to you?[/li]



[li]Do you think Seyi Rhode's will do that were it Aso rock or any government house? A man just bumps straight into the privacy of an institution and starts taking pictures. . , gooooshhhh only a big fool will come and tell me what seyi did was right[/li]



[li]Do you think Seyi would have the infantry to do so in the holiest temple of buddha or any islamic establishment[/li]

[/list]

Christianity and its institutions seems about the most tolerant body ever to allow every diiike shun and harry to evade decency. . . nonsense!

Enigma:
You and Oyaks should go and get a lawyer to advise you on that.

Enigma,

Jo is asking you a simple question. . . What does criminal code say about offerings in church dude.?

If you claim you know so much as to nail an innocent man on the subject, it will be best to answer this simple question  

@ Tonye-t

The topic of Pastor Chris is very subjective and it depends upon each individual to judge the impact he has on them.

I respect your view of this man and you are wholly entitled to your opinion.

As for me, I just don't subscribe to the type of "personality cult"  built around him that seems to elevate him more than Christ. However, it's another debate on how much control he has on the elevation bestowed on him. He might be innocent and he might enjoy the ego massaging.

I dis-agree with a notion in your last paragraph in which you state that ", he is impacting more lives than all the business people and the world presidents put together".

To me that is a sentimental statement because there are lots of Business people who make impacts in the world, it all depend on your definition of "impact".
Steve jobs has impacted more lives with his "I" brand and Bill gates, in my opinion, impacts more lives with his  humanitarian acts which is evident on his foundation's website.

Finally, I respect your view of the man, however, I personally refuse to give so much deference to any "MAN", pastor or business man, GOD is the only the entity in which I give so much adoration and respect.  While I respect the humbleness exhibited by Christ during his lifetime as described in the bible.

Cheers.

cold:
You have disingenuously deflected the Channel 4 article/video by Seyi Rhodes.In case you missed it here it is again;  
Local journalist Simon Ateba says it's almost impossible to establish their true wealth. Simon takes the team to the headquarters of Christ Embassy. He claims that two years ago when he tried to take photographs of the building, security guards dragged him inside and beat him until he fainted. Soon after he tells this story, security guards drag Rhodes into the building by his belt. He escapes unscathed.

Why would any so called man of God be so scared of his own shadow he won't even let pictures of his church be taken?What is he hiding or hiding from?The answer is not far fetched,your jerry curled pastor is a fraud & like a true scammer,secrets of the trade must not be divulged,exposed or disseminated.

Enigma:
Tell us where Oyakhilome got his "PhD" and I will tell you about my church.  

What is this PhD sef?is a postgraduate academic degree awarded by universities.

The academic level of degrees known as doctorates of philosophy varies considerably according to the country, institution, and time period, from entry-level research degrees to higher doctorates.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy

Pls understand the variations as stated by the writer ^^  

zalak45:
Has any1 ever kissed a man's Bottom this much. wow!

This last time i checked Yes! and guess who i saw? . . . i saw you doing so on Satan's bottom

Revolva:
@poster

You are a brainwahsed , follow follow nia dey do you, praising pastor chris as if he created the world, who gives a bleep if he is holy,  an na the one wey we see for ouside we go talk, all men are sinners that what the same Bible tells you, no matter how holy you potray your self, hiss do you know if he is visiting Babalawo to get is Power, who knows, yo are here wasting your praises on man,

Your type is easily fooled and washed

. . . sounded like you werent done sucking your mummy's breast before writing this. . . couldnt even understand a thing here

Enigma:
^^^ He (and his organisation) received stolen money and stolen goods; worse, he pointedly refused to return the stolen money/goods.

In Nigerian law, that is a criminal offence.

In the eyes of God . . . . ?

Enigma,

If this is the only reason you have for condemning the man then its really so unfair.

As far as I know, justice will only have its course on this man if he was in consent with the 'money-stealers' before the crime was committed. Else every so called man of God in Nigeria will/should be accused of such.

I say this because, virtually 6 out of every 10 subjects in a religious gathering who give offerings did so from fraudulent means. How do you expect the men of God to be accused if the criminals are caught.

Ok I hear you saying he should have returned the money. Damn! this is about the weakest opinion one will ever suggest. You know why? because If it were so, then every thief when caught should be made to bring out everyone who ate from his stolen money and be made to pay and that should include the guy the thief bought his shirt from, the woman he bought pepper from, the aboki he paid for polishing his shoes and the endless list.

How dumb would that sound?

Zab:
OH! MANY PEOPLE ARE CARRIED AWAY WITH ANOINTING AND GIFTS. LET ME POSIT HERE THAT ANOINTING AND OPERATION OF GIFT HAS NO LINK TO THE REAL GREATNESS OF PASTOR.A LOT OF 'SO CALLED MEN OF GOD' HAVE NOT RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST BUT OPERATE GIFTS . THAT'S WHY YOU SEE A PASTOR TAKING A MEMBER'S WIFE AND CLAIM IT DOESN'T MATTER.

NIGERIANS MUST OPEN THEIR EYES AND AND FLEE FROM 'IT DOESN'T MATTER ' PREACHERS WHO ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN TITHES AND WHAT THEY CAN GET FROM MEMBERS. PASTORS PLEASE MAKE YOUR ELECTION AND CALLING SURE.

MOST PASTORS IN NIGERIA DON'T CALL A SPADE A SPADE. TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT LADIES WEAR TO CHURCH. HOW MANY OF THEM CAN WEAR THOSE RUBBISH FOR A N INTERVIEW. BUT IN THE PRESENCE OF THEIR MAKER THEY GO ALMOST Unclad.LovePeddler MONGERS IN CHURCH!

My friend only a bush-man will make such claims. How has the topic at hand claimed his respects to be attributed to his anointing and gifts ehn? We are talkin about a man whose simplistic approach to the word of God has earned so much transformation in peoples lives.

We are talking about a man whose approach to spiritual leadership defied the silly status quo placed by so called RELIGIOUS FATHERS of our time. Before his entry into the leadership platform we use to think and perceive that spiritual excellence and heights could only be achieved by how much one fast and pray or how much connected you are to "the grace of so called men of God".

This young lad as some call him, came into the fold with a message that heights and weights in the faith has nothing to do with all the things men esteemed so much but rather your openness and simplistic heart towards the things of God.

Pls think before you condemn!

musKeeto:
If God created us and gave us freewill, then it simply means no one has a destiny. U can't have a free choice and still have a destiny.

Life, for me is a bus station. So many buses, ITC, RTC :d heading in different directions. The one you get on depends on where you get to. Halfway there, you still have a choice to drop off and get on another bus heading back the way you came. Therefore, your ACTION influences your LATER OUTCOME( DESTINY).  your USE of your FREEWILL will create your ENDING (DESTINY)

OLAADEGBU:
Your decision determines your destiny.

musKeeto:
If there's a destiny, then we're basically wasting our time here on earth. If everything's scripted, then there's no point living, there's no point choosing between right and wrong, no freewill, for the theists, Adam and Eve would have had no choice which means God had a destiny to create humans also

Now if there's no destiny, then we claim responsibility for our actions and inaction. We realize that a tree will grow only if we plant it, simply put we play our part.

I don't believe in destiny.