₦airaland Forum

KazeKage1: Kishi is the master of bullshiit.
When Pa tried to merge with Naruto when he was learning Sage Mode, the kyuubi didn't let him. Now the bijuu is willing to let Naruto use SM in KM? That's utter bullshit! Anyway, its his story.

Why's that? Kurama and Naruto weren't in good terms then and we all know how proud Kurama is, but now they are very good friends and besides there's more at stake at this point and Kurama will prefer to be lounging in Naruto's subconscious than being bossed around by Madara and the likes.

dre stone okuta: Happy sunday nairalanders, am new here and av read tru dis tread from d very first page, I respect everyones opinion and analysis on this thread (though dere re few question marks). I jst want to comment on this issue of naruto and shikamaru. Let's turn d table around for a second. Imagine shikamaru facing pain with intel, konoha wouldn't av bin destroyed to dat level, he'll assign shinobi's to deal with each pain's path depending on dier abilities, and naruto couldn't av come up wit a better plan to deal wit hidan.
And finally because naruto fought and defeated pain(witout much preparation) and shikamaru defeated hidan( with preparation) doesn't make naruto d almighty. Naruto fought pain 2wice, wen pain was @ 30% naruto/kurama won, but wen pain was endo sensei'd he defeated both naruto and killer B, naruto was wyning like he'd neva faced him b4 (all tanks to itachi wu saved both dier a55e5).
Point here is naruto relies more on his power but shikamaru relies more on intelligence. I guess u know which is better. #run's away b4 d likes of tosyn007 nd co kamui me out of dis thread

You contradicted, they didn't know Pain was invading, and when he did, Shikamaru was in the village and he couldn't do anything about it, when he heard Naruto was facing Pain alone, he couldn't believe it, cos he was awed at the overwhelming power of Nagato. If you agree that intelligence is better, how come Shikamaru defeating Hidan at the second try held in such high regard?

kimco: Lol tosyn i didn't mean that chouji as he is would defeat pain with intels.....what i meant was that even kiba and chouji with their level of thinking can come up with a plan to deal with pain had they had everything naruto had. The focus was on intellect. I can't be insulting naruto like that c'mon.

It didn't take him days to device a plan for hidan....he was mourning. What! U wanted him to jux go and face them like that without properly mourning his master....besides hidan and kakuzu told them to meet in three days tym. Was he supposed to jux go wondering around? He also wasn't in the right emotional state to fight them. He had to be ready also.

True that they were sermons....however sermons that were higher than pains sermons. I mean two of them were sages. infact, pain was at a disadvantage...cos his most powerful realm was out, naruto knew his secret and he was been hit with new jutsu every where. Jutsu he knew nothing about. Hidan had seen all of shikamaru's techniques and shikamaru, hidan's. And yet shikamaru came up tops. I'm sure 15mins was enough if u had info on their power(shared vision info promted idea to use frog kumite). Had he not known about their powers, then i would agree 15mins wouldn't be enuff atall, because he would nw be figuring out.

Like i said, chibaku tensei was the only jutsu that was a surprise. However knowing about it won't do him any gud cos it was used to capture the kyuubi. And when he was in kyuubi mode he had no consciousness to analyse and counter. Besides, God realm had to be closer to nagato for it to take place. so no problems there

Chakra rods were a non issue on the battle field. It was however important in the lab. U think even if he knew God realm would allow him to get to nagato?

I won't say full details really. Didn't have full details on kakuzu and he had to deal with him too. Like i said...plans don't always go as planned, so it's all hypothesis. And with that much less power, he was brilliant. Saying he's a goat goat is wrong cos if u device a plan and the enemy is still stronger things might get ruff for u. Hidan was a much much powerful opponent to shikamaru than pain was to naruto considering their arsenals.

You can't just assume they'll think the same way Naruto did, its baseless and besides Naruto didn't just have those powers, he worked harder than anyone to earn them.

He spent days mourning, but you gotta admit that unlike Naruto, it was a second chance for him which Naruto didn't have, making him a much more prepared shinobi compared to Naruto. Naruto was also summoned to go and learn sage mode when he was mourning Jiraiya's death, so you can't use that as an exccuse that he wasn't preparing allthrough those days.

just one of Pain summons was giving all the toads hell and you said they were greater? Naruto had to take out the one in charge of the summonings, the god realm was out but he had 5 more paths use till the power of Tendo came around, that aint no disadvantage. Hidan saw Shikamaru's power but unlike shikamaru, he didn't take days to prepare for them, instead he went about with Kakuzu looking for bounties, Naruto had the intels, and he had just 15 minutes to take down 6 paths, you're saying it as if the intels will guarantee victory while you aint admitting that planning for an opponent not as defensive/offensive as Pain won't guarantee victory..it was left to him to figure out what to do with the intels in very short time, if first hand experience and preparedness doesn't guarantee victory, how the heck will just intels and lack of time to prepare will?

After impaling Naruto with the chakra rod, it completely paralysed him and you say they weren't important?

His plans for Hidan perfectly worked cos the guy was one dimensional but he didn't plan too much for Kakuzu cos he left him for Kakashi to deal with and that was where things went awry not on Hidan's part.

There's a saying, "Knowledge is power" and isn't that what Shikamaru have in abundance? Shikamaru was the smartest, he had first hand experience, and time to only figure out how to decapitate the guy, he can't die but his body is surely human, even after Naruto defeated Pain, Nagato himself was no push over, if Shikaku and ino's Pop had gone in ahead of Naruto, he would simply had puppetted them. No matter how you look at it, Hidan was sent to go capture the 2 tails and Pain went for 6 tails capturing him in a blink, while Hidan went through hell with the 2 tails,

kimco: it was able to heal torn out flesh and rib bones (sasuke) ...so why not broken bones?

I dont get...explain more

kimco: it takes over....isn't that different from mixing together? My school maybe wrong but the school did teach me the difference.

He heals instantly in kyuubi mode. I thought he healed faster in non kyuubi mode because he was uzimaki...i maybe wrong...need clarification on that point.

Uzumaki gene cant be responsible for him recovering from broken bones and torn muscles in under 24 hours...

kimco: He's not only doing that...he's also mixing it with bijuu dama. I don't buy that.

Yep u're right, that why in addition to the toads intel...there was a slug on his shoulder feeding him off the rest. That's why he knew whom to attack first and what to use.

Doesn't matter if hidan was straight forward...he still cudn't die and he was skilled, he fights jinchurikis for christ sakes. Took shikamaru to know his secret, commended by kakuzu, after studying him even under intense pressure. Tricks are surprise attacks, none of the jutsu, bar chibaku tensei, was a surprise. He was briefed about them and even the God realm wasn't functional then. pain used like 6 jutsus, that's not many.

Point three- kakashi helped him kill one heart of kakuzu. Hidan was still alive. That didn't help. Infact...that was used to save kakashi's life rather than help himself against hidan. he killed hidan...alone. He dragged him away alone, set him up alone and killed him alone.

Point four- i'm sorry what! Watch the fight again...naruto had the toads helping him plus even hinata joining the saving grace team. Two sages, four fully grown and skilled toads against what! Five paths who had their powers read out aloud for the world to hear, with a sixth one who wasn't fuctional yet. He had no tym to put them into analysis? But didn't we all agree that naruto was battle smart...jux not on the level of other highly skilled ninjas? When u have detailed infos like that and a council behind u and so much power at ur disposal, if u can't make out what to do then u're beyond stupid and shudn't be called a ninja at all. Even chouji and kiba would know what to do with that much detail and power. And oh their powers were detailed to the T. Unless ofcos u wanna argue that (u know how we do it). Even the time delay in god realm's power was detaild.

Didn't matter even if he had tym to plan....still didn't mean it would've worked, jux like kakauzu showed him. It took courage to have taken a guy like hidan on for a guy with limited power like him. If he had so much power like even sasuke, i would've agreed with u. Even kakuzu thought shikamaru was a goner...preparing his obituary and all.

But the bijuu dama was his own, so hows that far-fetched?

Shikamaru knew his secret but took him days to counter them, naruto was getting the intels as he fights and was countering them on the go..he could others with his chakra rod, thats a trick, Pain has more than 6 jutsus and Hidan has one.

I agree he helped Kakashi at the other end but it was instrumental in putting hidan off guard for Shikamaru to execute his plans..

The toads are classified under summonings, you said 5 paths? seems you forgot that one had access to countless strong summonings, he killed one paths of pain and it was resurrected...he had 15mins of sage mode and you called that 'much power', he had to figure a ways to defeat all of them within that short period and you say Choji and Kiba would be able to do such, Choji has great chakra reserve, why wasnt he summoned to go learn sage mode if it is that easy...we all agreed that Shikamaru is the smartest in the anime but he still had to take days to prepare for someone who though can't die but can surely be decapitated. He wasnt informed that god realm can use shibaku tensei, and he wasnt detailed that their chakra rods can be used to control other shinobis.

When you're the smartest in the anime, and you have full details and experience of what your opponent is capable of, and all the time to strategise with this plan, then you're just a smart goat.

kimco: u know what i saw...i saw kyuubi chakra take over. Throughout the series the phrase '' the kyuubi chakra took over'' was widely used. And now Kishi is jux making it sound like they mixed together jux for the sake of an upgrade. Still not buying it.
I don't care if the queen cheerleader kyuubi is the one doing the explanation now, still ain't buying this. Too convenient

Kyuubi taking over means its taking over Naruto's chakra, his chakra mixes with Naruto all the time, thats why he heals rapidly even when not in the 9tails cloack mode...

kimco: ooooooo i think he's a bit overrated...and it doesn't help that his fans act like kids.

Second point- +1

How can Itachi is underrated, we didnt see the guy fight much and that is a big minus to me. Obito is wary of the guy, even in Nauruto Movie 6, on seeing Itachi, he absconded..he waited for Itachi to die before going for Konoha.

kimco: trying to prove critics wrong doesn't permit kishi to give him abilities from thin air. There are no concrete explanations to him deflecting all 8 bikuu damas at the speed of light in a kyuubi mode....a power he can't seem to replicate. An upgrade isn't bad but it must be meaningful and reasonable.

If i remember correctly, the 9tails cloak took over not mix with his chakra...unless u can prove that it did mix. It's bs and funny thing is if it was this obvious....why must it be now that we're being introduced to it like it's the coming of christ? i call bs on this big time.

do u think that being in akatsuki is as easy as u think? He was chosen for a reason. He simply wont die and he was built to face jinchurikis....which he did. Watch the anime/manga again dawg hidan and kakuzu were dispatched to go get naruto when diedera warned them of plot no jutsu....guess they didn't listen...lool. Naruto had council, had rasengan, rasen shuriken, had intel, had other fighter two which were sages...SAGES WITH EXPERIENCE ON PAIN....and finally he had a complete sage mode. However u look at it naruto had an upper hand compared to shikamaru who had what! Shadow binding? His brains and a few scrolls which take tym to execute compared to hand seals? Against an immortal highly skilled in killing jinchurikis? And also alone? I mean c'mon don't try to spin this, the intels detailed pain's ability inside out. Pain's trick up his sleeves was chibaku tensei, so i dnt know which ''tricks'' u're talking about. Planning is gud, but it doesn't ensure a total win. Besides he figured hidans jutsu out under intense pressure and behead him as well. Was it not for kakuzu, it would've ended there. All in the first meeting.

I don't blame kishi for passing shikamaru jux like i don't blame him for making ibiki pass naruto for writing absolutely nothing on his paper. Reasonable explanations.


I'm not really blaming u, jux appauled nobody rebuked rapke for calling me dumb... When i remember being rebuked for calling someone silly.

He's accumulating nature energy in bijuu mode,, is that difficult to understand?

Even though the toads had experiences of Pain, they still couldn't figure out all there is to know about him unlike Hidan's case whose jutsu is quite straight forward and when i meant tricks, i meant array of countless jutsus. The toads saw the 6 Pains but they didnt know what each was capable of doing, not until the day invaded and they had to start telling Naruto about each Pain's feature as he fought with them. He has council, so did Shikamaru have Kakashi who helped him collect Kakuzu's blood which was even much more decisive than all the intels Naruto had. Shikamaru fight was a one on one fight, Naruto's was 7 on one. The intels detailed Pains ability albeit not inside out but he had no time to put them into analysis while Shikamaru, had experience, intel and time.

rapmike: Nw, dat is a reasonable plot hole,b4 a jinchuriki and a bijuu cn exchange chakras,there must be sm sharing formula btw dem,so i wonda if it was supposd 2 be d same btw kyuubi 2 kyuubi considering dat d chakra has 2 pass thru minato/naruto b4 reaching d oda person and den 2 d oda kyuubi. As 4 minato knowing abt d idea, i guess dat comes wit d teritory(pardon my english) of being d kyuubi's host.
At d shikamaru ting,i tot u were implying dat kishi made shikamaru suddenly dumb in order 2 make naruto shine,dat is y i said it was dumb,i was nt refering 2 u.
BTW,dat wat a big glitch back dia,wat causes it?

You seems to forget that Kyuubi is one and the same, which means their chakra is one and the same, so their syncing should be easier...then there seem to be a way jinchurikis relate through their subconscious, for instance, in Naruto's fight with Kyuubi, Achibi was able to help out albeit a little in Naruto subconscious.

kimco: First point- u seem to be forgetting something...the two chakras of both nine tails to perfectly sync...how was he to know that they'll do a perfect sync....how was he to know that nine tails chakra in minato was usable....nobody informed him of anything? In order to make analysis, shudn't u have infomation? U think he had tym to be looking at minato and son when his section needed his help as well. He was busy himself. Besides like i said....didn't that sharing thing run out....according to him it wasn't even an option cos it was used up. Funny part about the rice sharing, hahahah.

Point two- it's a plot hole....dude....jux like i keep saying...things are jux too convenient for naruto to shine.

Point three bolded point- i'm not repeating what u said.... I'm making a point that he too can draw blanks like any other human. But that shudn't be used to debunk his intelligence atall...cos he too is battle smart. Glaringly obviousthings? Like i said.... U're an omnipotent reader....his condition of reasoning isn't same as urs, don't compare urself to him atall. Do it to other characters in the manga.....no not naruto....thats plot no jutsu. Lol

I still don't agree with the fact that Naruto is being pampered, most of his upgrades aside Sage mode and the fact that he's an Uzumaki(which is resposible for his high chakra level, stamina and endurance) are courtesy of the Kyuubi inside him and that should be good enough, Kakashi tagged him as an unpredictable knucklehead ninja and that's what he is...he has the toughest of upbringing in the anime..and as for Shikamaru knowing what transpired between Minato and Naruto, I think its only sensors that could have an idea and Shikamaru isn't one.

kimco: And u condone this? He has said nothing atall really except show his undying love for naruto. i won't continue this argument any longer.

Read inbetween the lines bro, and as for the fact that I didn't provide an argument for this, I think it was you backed down from it...you didn't give a reply to this: What else drives you to succeed if not the desire and passion to prove critics wrong and surpass your peers, he worked day and night to make sure he grows...how is sage energy mixing with kyuubi's chakra a junk? Seems you forgot that kyuubi chakra has blended with Naruto's chakra making one chakran so does it mixing with nature energy far fetched?

Naruto was summoned from his training to fight Pain so unlike Shikamaru who went to the drawing to do some permutations and combinations before his rematch, Naruto obviously had no time to strategise on the shady intels on ground and he even had to use these intels on the go to fight Pain. Hidan was sent to capture the 2 tails while Pain was sent to capture the 6 and then the 9 tails, don't you think there's a reason for that? Hidan was one-dimensional shinobi, so it was easy for Shikamaru to figure him(since he had the brain and time to do so), but Pain had tons of tricks up his sleeves and Naruto had just intels just coming to him during the fight and no time to strategise with them. You can't compare first hand experience to intels that pieces about someone with a rinnegan.

You didn't blame Kishi for making Shikamaru a chunnin despite losing his fight but you blame him for upgrading Naruto despite concrete explanations for them...

And I'm sorry if I've done you wrong in anyway, we are here to have and that's what objective argument brings o I'm expecting a response

Itachi used Izanami while Obito/Danzo used Izanagi

rapmike: GUY THE BOLDED IS VERY DUMB

---

OF YOU. SO YOU ARE STILL AGRUING THIS STUPID THING ABI? I WONDER IF YOUR'PERFECT' SHIKAMARU WENT THRU HALF OF WHAT NARUTO HAD GONE THRU , IF HE WOULD HAVE BEEN BETA. YOU JUST HATE NARUTO SIMPLE! AND YOU WILL EVEN PREFER KIBA THAN NARUTO JUST FOR THE SPITE OF IT!

Now that's the harsher version of what I've been tryna explain to him...lol

kimco: Which wan is on point?

I wonder oo, last time I checked, this is Naruto information thread, and we've discussing Naruto since

Kaycee7: It's not about anime. It's about common sense. Danzo that was sipping Rosé in his office while the massacre was going on later got 10 sharingan. Talk more of Obito who was doing the actual work. Im suppose pack enough sharingan to open a store.

I think he does but i cant really picture out where I saw them, either when he took Nagato's body or when he wanted to transplant Itachi's eye to Sasuke's.

Baddestguyp: all tinz being equal, shikamaru would've defeated sasuke at sasuke's level at that time just as u said. If u had said sasuke vs shikamaru wit sasuke's recent abilities i would agree. Btw, wen i meant all things being equal, i meant without absurd power ups or "MAGIC" from kishi as we all know sasuke should've been dead 4rm season 1

Well I was referring to. The present Sasuke/Shikamaru

Baddestguyp: i'll give u anoda reason why this argument is a waste of time. Reason: shikamaru is smart. U cant predict his moves. Thats y u cant really compare them. If it was a naruto vs sasuke argument, we'll compare them in terms of powers but u cant compare shikamaru dat way. U cant predict his strategy. U agree with me that an army of 10,000 can defeat one of 100,000 right? So also can shikamaru defeat someone way more powerful than he is. If only kishi would give more focus on shikamaru

I don't wanna an advocate of controversy on this thread, if not, I might said more but lemme say this, Shikamaru is very smart and there's no disputing the fact that he can defeat a shinobi more powerful than he is, but smarter is one of the most balanced shinobi cos he has a perfect blend of intelligence and power(just like Minato), if we are to go by how Kishi designed them, then I can say that Sasuke will beat Shikamaru...and your saying 'if Kishi' is to me like admitting that Sasuke will beat Shikamaru.

kimco: Sage mode rasen shuriken? When was that one too mentioned? jux because he did it in sage doesn't mean it's a sage mode version. He did it in kyuubi mode too, is that one too kyuubi mode rasen shuriken?

What is Sage Mode? and why did you think he was able to throw the rasenshuriken in sage mode?

kimco: the guys has withstood s class wind jutsu from kakuzu, withstood beatings from jinchurikis....don't u thinks he can handle rasenshuriken as well. I mean his body is built for that. he won't die...if two others haven't had their bodies torn apart...i believe he too can survive.

What effect does Sage mode rasenshuriken have on the body?

One thing I've come to learn in Naruto is the tiniest bit of info matters, who woulda known that the first time Naruto switched to hermit mode when he was impaled but Pain chakra rod would come to play a big part in the war...

topcy90: it was till intact in your dreams lols. Go and read it again the body was torn to 1 millions pieces

Exactly what i was saying lol..now imagine if that was Hidan?

SIDDON LOOK NO JUTSU, LEMME CHILL AND SEE AS THE THREAD GOES... BUT I'M ALWAYS READY TO PICK UP ON SEEMINGLY WRONG THESIS...

Baddestguyp: dude, wat r u saying? Its useless to argue with you. I wont ever argue with u in cases pertaining to naruto. No way

I thought we were talking about Shikamaru and Sasuke, if you've got concrete facts, drop'em and we'll reason them out...
No one is an island of naruto knowledge

Baddestguyp: i totally disagree with you there

Is it the part where Sasuke will slaughter Umaru or his tripping for Sasuke? Umaru would only have "chance" if he survived his first encounter with Sasuke and then has some days to prepare and restrategise(like in the case of Hidan and Kakuzu)

Appears I don't need to put mouth again...

kimco: edited- let me check on dat again. Give me a minute...

Well i checked the manga, hardly saw what was happening, can u explain it to me. however let's say u were right, kakazu, yahinko and the 3rd raikages bodies were still intact after they got hit...so it's quite sensible to assume that a character who can withstand slashes and hit from junchirikis for a living is quite capable of handling the rasenshuriken. He won't die...that for sure.

Yahiko got hit by rasengan and not rasenshuriken!

kimco: Which one, yahinko's body? It was still intact. What are u talking about?

Not Yahiko, the one that threw the girl that summons outta the way and he was hit with the rasenshuriken in the process.

kimco: kishi wrote him as an intelligent character so i expect intelligence from him...any deviation jux for the sake of the main character wont be tolerated.

Naruto was written as such and believe me, i sympathised with the guy. Cried when he did and laffed when he did. But then it got boring because it became the reason for upgrades in power. Last chapter is the biggest piece of junk ever. ''oh now u can mix natural jutsu with a bijuu dama.... with explanation even the main character can't swallow, and i'm supposed to swallow that. The upgrades are waaaay too much. If sasuke gets an upgrade, i'm done with this manga.


When u're a character who has had upgrades in rasengan, sage mode, a whole army of frogs, two of the being sages as well and intel, i expect better from u facing pain than the character who only has his shadow binding and intelligence, and with a depleted chakra pool facing a character who defeats junchirukis., one on one. And even then strategies aren't sure wins like kakazu thought him. His execution was perfect with hidan, however. Besides the two sages knew what worked and what did not against pain, thats why they came with the reinforcement they did in order to compliment pain's power((guess pain as too strong). We can't assume that they didn't strategise cos they didn't immediate warp themselves to the field after the news got to them.


Edit-if u agree that he was chosen for his leadership qualities, why then do u argue? He lost his fight didn't he? Did naruto not win? Shudn't naruto have been made a chuunin? I mean he won his fight. Irrespective of the way the exam ended, one was made a chuunin and the rest weren't. Goes to show u.

What else drives you to succeed if not the desire and passion to prove critics wrong and surpass your peers, he worked day and night to make sure he grows...how is sage energy mixing with kyuubi's chakra a junk? Seems you forgot that kyuubi chakra has blended with Naruto's chakra making one chakran so does it mixing with nature energy far fetched?

Naruto was summoned from his training to fight Pain so unlike Shikamaru who went to the drawing to do some permutations and combinations before his rematch, Naruto obviously had no time to strategise on the shady intels on ground and he even had to use these intels on the go to fight Pain. Hidan was sent to capture the 2 tails while Pain was sent to capture the 6 and then the 9 tails, don't you think there's a reason for that? Hidan was one-dimensional shinobi, so it was easy for Shikamaru to figure him(since he had the brain and time to do so), but Pain had tons of tricks up his sleeves and Naruto had just intels just coming to him during the fight and no time to strategise with them. You can't compare first hand experience to intels that pieces about someone with a rinnegan.

You didn't blame Kishi for making Shikamaru a chunnin despite losing his fight but you blame him for upgrading Naruto despite concrete explanations for them..

kimco: His head got decapitated and he was still talking....isn't that prove enuff. How dead (er) can someone be if not beheaded....isn't that the ultimate death?

And what of having no body at all? Didn't you see the path of pain that got hit by the sage's rasenshuriken?

Hidan is immortal huh? But what happens if he gets hit by Naruto's sage rasenshuriken?

kimco: Errrm...what are u talking about dude. naruto didn't pass the exams simple as dat...that was waaaay b4 he went with away jiraiya. In the mission to save sasuke shikamaru he was their leader cos he was a rank ahead of them. He was made chuunin cos he made the right decisions while naruto fought and fought jux so he cud be recognised. shikamaru lost and was still made chuunin, end of story. What happened the next year was a non issue cos we're talking about that very chuunin exam
Naruto faced kakazu with others, jux like with pain, not alone. Shikamaru handled hidan alone. Make of it what u may but hidan is an immortal so he can afford to be stupid. The way he even drew him away was jux brilliant. Work of art.
Shikamaru complains but even sakura admits he holds everyone's life dear to his heart. He refused the guardian offer jux so he cud be close to those he loved and protect them. U don't seem to know him quite well. His whinning is jux a front, when it comes to the real deal, he steps up.

And yes, shikamaru will definitely draw blanks. I mean how else do u expect kishi to make naruto look good. Smart a.s.ses need to look dumb. How wonderful is it that some how everything fell in place for naruto's intelligent move....that his father's inner 9 tails awaken at that very tym, that it'll sync perfectly(understandable, but the first point is bull). For Christ that's outrageous. U can swallow that, but i can't

He was made Chunnin cos of his leadership skills, the first chunnin exam ended in turmoil remember? And it was when it was retaken that other genins where promoted to chunnin which Naruto didint partake of it. As for Hidan's case, he had an encounter with the guy and also had days to strategise before facing him again, and even with that, it wasn't enough to take down both Akatsukis while Naruto had no time strategise against Pain, just intels that were passed to him in the middle of his fight Pain..I honestly don't believe you're comparing Hidan to Pain. And besides, Kishi gave Shikamaru the highest IQ in the anime and it augurs well with you, he made Naruto the focal point of the anime and you're crying foul? No kid had it as tough as Naruto growing up and you don't blame Kishi for that..but when he gets upgraded, Kishi this Kishi that...